Gaining a bite attack as a Dragon Born Favored Soul(1-20)

[Yogibear41]

Is there anyway to gain a bite natural attack permanently, as a strait classed (1-20) Dragon Born Favored Soul. Bonus points if it can be done using a Water Orc as the base race.

[Dread_Head]

Feats: Willing Deformity and Deformity (Face) will give you a bite attack. Or Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) will let you take the granted power of the Hunger Domain which is a bite attack.

Graft: The Fiendish Jaw graft costs 2,000gp but it grants a gore attack rather than a bite. Grasping Mandibles costs 15,000gp and grants a bite attack.

Items: Fanged Mask(MIC) gives a bite attack and costs 8,300gp but that obviously isn't permanent.

Or play a race such as Darfellan (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050805a&page=2) (Storm) or Kobold Variant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) which naturally has a bite attack but obviously that doesn't allow Water Orc.

[ShurikVch]

How about templates?
Are stuff from Dragon Magazine allowed?
3.0 stuff?

[Yogibear41]

Anything you have the might work shurikvch, would like to avoid LA though but if you have an idea post it anyway I might use it for something else.

[ShurikVch]

I attempted to apply feat Jaws of Death to orc, but still doesn't found a way...

If you OK with undead PC, can try Necropolitan+Ravenous (template from Dragon #319, technically LA +0)

Also, Underdark have Arachnoid template, also technically LA +0. If you have Int more than 6 (because penalty -4), it can be useful. Yes, it supposed to be inherited, and applied to animals or magical beasts. but hey, a wizard did it!

[lytokk]

as far as I remember, there's a Warforged component that gives a bite attack. So a warforged as the base race, undergo the ritual of rebirth, and voila. I'd think you couldn't remove the component anymore either. But its not a water orc so not 100% what you were looking for.

[NoACWarrior]

Other than the above mentioned ways, without dipping it will be very hard to get a permanent bite attack.

If you just wanted another secondary attack you can use while your hands are full - Dragon Tail (RotD): 1x Secondary Tail 1d6 medium (requires dragonblood subtype, must be taken at 1st level).

You are a dragon born so you qualify. If you already have the character go through a rebuild quest to get the feat at lvl 1.

[Dread_Head]

Other than the above mentioned ways, without dipping it will be very hard to get a permanent bite attack.

If you just wanted another secondary attack you can use while your hands are full - Dragon Tail (RotD): 1x Secondary Tail 1d6 medium (requires dragonblood subtype, must be taken at 1st level).

You are a dragon born so you qualify. If you already have the character go through a rebuild quest to get the feat at lvl 1.

You don't even need to do a rebuild in this case as when you become Dragonborn you can trade out any feat you have for a 1st level dragonblood feat. I suggest trading the Weapon Focus Favoured soul gives for it if that's the route you are going to go.

[NoACWarrior]

You don't even need to do a rebuild in this case as when you become Dragonborn you can trade out any feat you have for a 1st level dragonblood feat. I suggest trading the Weapon Focus Favoured soul gives for it if that's the route you are going to go.

That would assume that the DM allows you to pay the 100 gold at level 0. As far as I know you have to be at least 1st level to undergo the ritual, which means your 1st level feat is already picked. Unless you are ok with the player starting out as a non-combatant with 0 hd taking the ritual, gaining levels and paying back the order of bahaumut.

[lytokk]

not to mention it requires scales from metallic dragons, and my thoughts would be that's on top of the 100 gp due to the verbage.

[NoACWarrior]

not to mention it requires scales from metallic dragons, and my thoughts would be that's on top of the 100 gp due to the verbage.

Spell component pouch for 5 gold solves the scales (dragon scales are used for spellcasting). But I don't think a lvl 0 or even a lvl 1 character has much more than 50 gold.

[Dread_Head]

That would assume that the DM allows you to pay the 100 gold at level 0. As far as I know you have to be at least 1st level to undergo the ritual, which means your 1st level feat is already picked. Unless you are ok with the player starting out as a non-combatant with 0 hd taking the ritual, gaining levels and paying back the order of bahaumut.

Huh? You can trade out a feat you already have for one of the 1st level dragonblood feats as per the Mechanics of Rebirth Sidebar (RotD). It doesn't even need to be the feat you chose at first level.


Special: Ordinarily, only a 1st-level character can select certain feats requiring the dragonblood subtype (see Chapter 6). However, upon becoming a dragonborn, you can elect to replace one (and only one) of your existing feats with one of these feats. A character cannot have more than one of these feats. The feat to be replaced cannot be a prerequisite for any prestige class, ability, or other feat.

[NoACWarrior]

Huh? You can trade out a feat you already have for one of the 1st level dragonblood feats as per the Mechanics of Rebirth Sidebar (RotD). It doesn't even need to be the feat you chose at first level.

Ah I missed that! So the tail feat can actually be subbed in at 1st level.

Unfortunately its not a bite, but it doesn't require an evil alignment, and is an extra secondary attack which you get 1 additional attack per round. I can imagine this being pretty neat when combined with held touch attacks (natural weapons discharge touch attack effects on hit).

[Coidzor]

You could always beg for Razortusk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/razortusk)or Toothy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-orc#TOC-Alternate-Racial-Traits)from Pathfinder, I suppose.

Or a variant of Feral that just gives a claw/claw/bite or slam/bite, broken up over time if you have to grovel too much.

[Yogibear41]

Already plan to use dragon-tail along with the build, Razortusk could work if the DM is feeling nice. (this is all hypothetical at this point) Trying to load up on natural attacks for a natural attack build using dragon magic variant to gain claw attacks as well for the favored soul.


Doesn't neccessarily have to be a water-orc just wanted something with good boosts to strength and con without hurting my other stats to bad (the -2 cha is painful but bearable), the swim speed is just icing on the cake.

[NoACWarrior]

The issue I find with Dragon Born is that you lose a ton of racial things with the rebirth. The rebirth doesn't specifically say that your natural attacks are kept, so you automatically lose them in the translation (unless your DM is being really really really nice).

With that said:
+0 LA Races with Permanent natural attacks:
Kenku (MMIII): 2x Primary Claws 1d3
Skarn (MoI): 2x Spines 1d6 damage (unlike monsters use two weapon fighting rules)
Variant Kobold (RoD/MM): 2x Primary Claws 1d3, 1x Secondary Bite 1d3
Warforged (RoE): 2x Primary Slam 1d4, 1x Secondary Bite 1d6 (take Jaws of death)

+1 LA templates with Permanent natural attacks:
Draconic (RotD): 2x Primary Claws 1d3
Feral (SS): 2x Primary Claws 1d8 (was not ported to 3.5, kinda OP)

Apply the additional templates as well, so long as the DM will allow you to take the rebirth rite as part of your first level character creation. Note that your type doesn't change, you just gain the dragon blood subtype.

As follows is a few other ways to get natural weapons which may have not been mentioned.
Feats:
Illithid Grapple (CPsi): 1x Primary Tentacle 1d4 (requires Illithid heritage and another Illithid feat)
Jaws of Death (RoE): 1x Secondary Bite 1d6 (requires race to be warforged)
Shape Soulmeld - Claws of the Wyrm (RotD?): 2x Primary Claws 1d3 (requires dragonblood subtype)

IF you are willing to take 2 levels in Totemist to get Totem charka bind, then there are quite a few different soulmelds from the totemist list you can take to get you multiple natural attacks.

With all the above said, I'd go Warforged take Dragon Born and apply Draconic template (I don't know if the draconic template is legal to be applied to a dragon born player). This will give you an automatic 2 claws and a bite with a feat, and the tail slap with the other feat.

[ShurikVch]

Doesn't neccessarily have to be a water-orc just wanted something with good boosts to strength and con without hurting my other stats to bad (the -2 cha is painful but bearable), the swim speed is just icing on the cake. How about Darfellan from Stormwhak?

https://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/storm_gallery/90714.jpg
+2 Str, -2 Dex, swim speed, bite attack...

If small size and LA +1 is OK, you can try Poison Dusk Lizardfolk - bite attack, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha; or Norker (Dr #343) - bite attack, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha

Finally, Book of Vile Darkness have Warp Touch disease. One of random effects of it is
75–76 Grow a very wide mouth; bite deals 1d6 points of damage.

[NoACWarrior]

How about Darfellan from Stormwhak?
+2 Str, -2 Dex, swim speed, bite attack...

If small size and LA +1 is OK, you can try Poison Dusk Lizardfolk - bite attack, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha; or Norker (Dr #343) - bite attack, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha

Finally, Book of Vile Darkness have Warp Touch disease. One of random effects of it is

While the swim speed and ability mods will be kept after dragon born rebirth, the bite attack goes away. Same thing with Lizard folk, also aren't you missing racial HD?
The disease could be a great way to get a bite attack for free. It be funny that you'd inject yourself over and over till you get it, rerolling any characters who died because of the disease.

Suddenly an outbreak of Warp Touch has hit a village. Rumors have it that a cult is injecting it into subjects to make them grow teeth!

[ShurikVch]

Same thing with Lizard folk, also aren't you missing racial HD? Normal Lizardfolk are medium-sized with 2 HD, Poison Dusk Lizardfolk are small-sized and 1 HD


Suddenly an outbreak of Warp Touch has hit a village. Rumors have it that a cult is injecting it into subjects to make them grow teeth! :thog: From the BoVD:

Warpsword: This +2 greatsword infects anyone it strikes with warp touch (see Diseases in Chapter 2) if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 14).

[NoACWarrior]

Hehehe :smallbiggrin: I can see a character back story being made. Imagine a cleric with greater invisibility running around stabbing people to see if one of them gets teeth. Then they pick up the poor soul except the forces of bahamut save the guy and offer to give him dragon born as a way for him to serve thier organization and pay them back for saving him.

Except make the evil cleric a side bad guy put in as a character story development hook.

[Coidzor]

The issue I find with Dragon Born is that you lose a ton of racial things with the rebirth. The rebirth doesn't specifically say that your natural attacks are kept, so you automatically lose them in the translation (unless your DM is being really really really nice).

That said, it does seem to be the usual convention that natural attacks carry over.

[atemu1234]

Half-Dragon template. Done.

[NoACWarrior]

That said, it does seem to be the usual convention that natural attacks carry over.

That is based on how you read the rebirth sidebar. It clearly states that you keep a few things, and then lose all racial abilities which are not powerful build.
If your DM says natural attacks are not racial bound and thus not a racial ability then its fine to keep it.
I just don't see how you keep a natural attack bound to your race when you wildshape or polymorph which causes you to lose all your racial abilities too.

While Dragon Born has ALOT of issues with generally messing with racial abilities which can be helpful, it offers a LA +0 way of becoming a dragonblood without the hassle of a higher ECL.
Sure Half Dragon has all 3 natural attacks, but is that worth an LA of 3? Simply put is 3 levels of any class better than 3 natural attacks in which you could have used one of the feats earned to gain 2 of the natural attacks and have all the class abilities?

Thematically half dragon works a whole lot better. For power, half dragon is a bad idea unless you allow LA buyoff (which not all DMs allow, I for one hate it).