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Yora
2014-04-01, 06:13 AM
One thing I love in the Witcher games, and can't remember seeing anywhere else, is the taking of trophies from killed monsters that actually are quite useful to have. It does come up in some stories, like the head of Medusa, and sometimes you see monsters killed with their own hacked off claws.
I really would love to somehow include that in my campaign, but I'm not quite sure how. What would be a good way to get minor bonuses for characters, from hacking up parts of fallen enemies and adding them to their gear?

I guess what would always work is a bonus to Diplomacy/Reaction rolls. Even if you have an entirely nonmagical trophy, some people who can identify it might be greatly impressed by it. Or really angry at you.

Aedilred
2014-04-01, 08:49 AM
I fondly remember the Ankheg armour from Baldur's Gate. Lighter than full plate and just as effective - the only downsides were that you had to lug an ankheg shell to the right blacksmith, and that it was green. Still, worth it.

It's the sort of thing that's going to be situational (and dependent on which part of the monster you steal, of course). In particular, whether you're expecting it to have a practical application, like a weapon, armour or tool, or whether it's just for display purposes. At a very basic level, just skinning a particularly tough monster and using its hide as a cloak (like the Ankheg armour above, the standard fantasy-trope dragonscale, Heracles's lion cloak, etc.) would give an armour bonus. I can imagine that, if you can find a way to remove and store it, bits off a rust monster could be extremely useful in various fights and situations.

It's a curious one; I don't know what the best way to handle it in a campaign would be. It's the sort of thing that a beginner player will think of instinctively, and an experienced one won't bother with, oddly enough. It's probably the sort of thing most likely to be useful to players in a relatively low-fantasy campaign where monsters might actually have the best "natural" weapons, armour and abilities available or where anything more effective is very difficult to get hold of. A key thing to decide is whether you want to allow a magical effect of the creature to continue in effect after death. That's what made the head of the Medusa an effective weapon and could potentially have potentially have much wider application in a D&D game with all their monsters... but it's also the sort of thing that could be awkward, inconvenient or downright overpowering if you're not careful. I guess the easiest approach is not to send the players up against anything with abilities you're not comfortable with their having access to.

Certainly as you say any sort of visible trophy would doubtless have an effect on Intimidate, Diplomacy rolls, etc. - although not necessarily a positive one.

Actana
2014-04-01, 08:53 AM
Morale bonuses and penalties could be things, even if it sometimes might stretch disbelief a bit. Keeping a trophy of a giant spider around could give a morale bonus against poison, as it reminds the bearer how they managed to face that massive spider and prevail despite its poison. The same could go for penalties for enemies. A trophy of a significant monster could give a morale penalty to something as the enemy realizes how much of a badass you are by killing the thing you did.

Creating equipment from monster remains is also a good idea, though it depends on how magic-item heavy the game is. For regular D&D it feels as if it'd be a bit overly complicated as you'd just replace the armor with something else later on, but for lower magic item games it'd be a neat way to give the players bonuses.

In addition, the remains of magical creatures are a chapter of their own and their residue could do practically whatever you want.

Yora
2014-04-01, 09:24 AM
What could really work well is to use monster parts as defenses against spirits and demons. Such creatures often work by rules that are based on the meanings certain things have to them. Like vampires hating holy symbols and fey hating iron.

Jay R
2014-04-01, 10:27 AM
In original Chivalry and Sorcery, various parts would be of value in making magic items. Of course, that had more value when magic items were rarer, and you couldn't buy them.

But bringing in parts to sell would make sense.

I favor using it just for show. Wearing a vest made of dragon hide (the flexible stuff on the wings) has to be good for first impressions.

In a recent game, after we slew some lizard folk, one of the players wanted to make boots. My elf wouldn't allow it, saying, "We are not going to wear the bodies of sentient non-humans, or I'll make boots from the next humans we slay."

Leviting
2014-04-01, 11:32 AM
It sounds like a good idea until the wizard skins an unconscious tarresque, tapes the spikes all over the armor, and proclaims the fighter to be immune to dying.
Actually though, Kellus' Xenoalchemy, wherever that is right now, is probably a great place to start.

JeenLeen
2014-04-01, 12:38 PM
I think there's a feat (or class, but I think feat) in D&D 3.5 that allows you to make trophies/fetishes out of parts of defeated enemies, to give you some minor bonuses.

I do think it's a cool concept, but hard to pull off without being too abusable. Though in a low-magic world where magical creatures are relatively rare as well, it could work pretty well.

In oWoD mage, the blood of vamps, skin/claws of fera, and some other parts of magical creatures could be harvested to generate Tass (magical energy solidified, used to power things or as currency among mages.)

Jay R
2014-04-01, 03:15 PM
It sounds like a good idea until the wizard skins an unconscious tarresque, tapes the spikes all over the armor, and proclaims the fighter to be immune to dying.

Assume the monster's skin makes you immune from all harm. Then by hypothesis, you did not successfully skin him.

[Yes, I know you said you skinned an unconscious one. If that can be done to the tarrasque, then it can be done to the PC.]

Slipperychicken
2014-04-01, 05:13 PM
Assume the monster's skin makes you immune from all harm. Then by hypothesis, you did not successfully skin him.

[Yes, I know you said you skinned an unconscious one. If that can be done to the tarrasque, then it can be done to the PC.]

This is basically the tale of Hercules and the Nemean Lion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemean_lion#The_First_Labor_of_Heracles) (except Hercules strangled the lion to death like a boss). Just use its own claws to cut its skin open :smallbiggrin: It's in the rules that a creature's natural weapons can bypass the DR of its own kind, so that could actually work against the Tarrasque. I don't recall any creatures having (Ex) Immunity to being skinned by their own claws.

Alternatively, just hollow the creature out from the inside (as skin is explicitly an outer covering), starting with some opening like its mouth. Then climb inside the creature's skin and wear it. It might not be the best fit, but it's better than being stabbed to death.

Leviting
2014-04-01, 10:30 PM
wouldn't the tarresque's muscle tissue regrow as you hollowed it? Talk about a "buried alive" scenario.

Slipperychicken
2014-04-02, 12:19 AM
wouldn't the tarresque's muscle tissue regrow as you hollowed it? Talk about a "buried alive" scenario.

One possible fix would be to remove the beast's hide (or remove the beast from its hide, in this case) entirely before fashioning it into a vestment. Then, the regeneration should continue functioning on the tarrasque itself (the part with all the brain, bones, internal organs, etc) rather than its disembodied skin.

Jay R
2014-04-02, 10:06 AM
None of which changes my basic point. The last creature to wear this was clearly not safe from all harm, so the current one isn't either.

(As a child, I had the same problem with a rabbit's foot for good luck. If you have one hanging from a chain, then it wasn't very lucky for the rabbit - and he had four of them.)

Aedilred
2014-04-02, 10:24 PM
Obviously, wearing something that has been taken from the body of a slain adversary and expecting it to make you invulnerable is a flawed principle. But it might still make you invulnerable to certain types of attack, which is really the best that can be expected from any sort of armour anyway. That was the whole thing with the Nemean Lion - its hide couldn't be pierced. It didn't mean Heracles wasn't able to kill it, and it didn't mean Heracles was invulnerable after he made it into a coat, but both the lion and, later, he, were invulnerable to stabbing attacks, which is better than nothing.

I don't think anyone is expecting to find a perfect armour that makes them totally invincible. But it doesn't need to be perfect to be worth having, and it also doesn't need to make you invincible to be overpowered or unbalancing.

Leviting
2014-04-02, 10:47 PM
Isn't a zodar immune to everything except bludgeoning? That's pretty close to invulnerable, once you find a way to stop war hammers and stuff.
Too bad it is explicitly stated to break apart upon death...

Slipperychicken
2014-04-02, 11:30 PM
Obviously, wearing something that has been taken from the body of a slain adversary and expecting it to make you invulnerable is a flawed principle. But it might still make you invulnerable to certain types of attack, which is really the best that can be expected from any sort of armour anyway. That was the whole thing with the Nemean Lion - its hide couldn't be pierced. It didn't mean Heracles wasn't able to kill it, and it didn't mean Heracles was invulnerable after he made it into a coat, but both the lion and, later, he, were invulnerable to stabbing attacks, which is better than nothing.

I don't think anyone is expecting to find a perfect armour that makes them totally invincible. But it doesn't need to be perfect to be worth having, and it also doesn't need to make you invincible to be overpowered or unbalancing.

This. No armor is perfect, but Tarrasque Carapace plate armor would be pretty awesome.

imaloony
2014-04-03, 12:58 AM
There is in fact a feat from the PHB2 in 3.5 that pretty much allows this:
Trophy Collector (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/trophy-collector--2973/)

Honestly, it's pretty bad though. You can only craft trophies of creatures with a higher CR than your current level. Once the trophy is crafted (Cost equal to the creatures CR-100 GP), you can wear it, but it must take up a Amulet, Boot, Belt, or Cloak slot (You can't have a magic item AND a trophy in a slot). Even once you have it, it's pretty unremarkable. +2 on Intimidate checks against the type of creature you made the trophy of, -4 on Diplomacy checks against that creature type, and +1 saves against fear per trophy you wear. The best part of this feat is that once per day you can gain a bonus on your Will save equal to the number of trophies you're wearing, but even then, it's pretty mediocre (A Cloak of Resistance is pretty cheap, even for higher bonus', and it's a constant effect).

I'd say try and work something out with your DM, and avoid the actual feat.

Yora
2014-04-03, 03:38 AM
I think the idea of powerful monsters having a basically unfinished magic item among its treasures might be a good approach. Cut off the part in question and get it to an enchanter to make it into an item of your choice. Instead of the body part itself protecting you, it's the power source for the enchantment.

Winter Wolf cloak or boots for cold resistance.
Wyvern stinger amulet for poison resistance.
Dragonhide cloak for fire resistance.

Wraith
2014-04-03, 04:56 PM
Consider the Rippers sourcebook for the Savage Worlds system - it includes a new character concept called the Ripper Doc and the necessary skills and stats to run it.

This archetype essentially allows you to play as Dr. Frankenstein. You go around, finding monsters, killing them, and then harvesting their organs and other assorted body parts in order to graft them onto yourself and your allies.

Werewolf skin allows you to regenerate. A demon's heart makes you immune to fire. Vampire teeth gives you certain vampiric immunities and abilities. As well as RP benefits, for being able to flash enormous fangs at someone for Intimidate checks. It sounds a lot like what you're looking for, even if just as a source for inspiration.

GuesssWho
2014-04-04, 02:25 AM
I always wanted to hit Perseus very hard over the head for taking a rape victim's head as a trophy and acting like he was the good guy.

On a lighter note, the Draconomicon has dragon scale armor in it, and Libris Mortis has Allip cloaks I think.

Slipperychicken
2014-04-04, 12:48 PM
I always wanted to hit Perseus very hard over the head for taking a rape victim's head as a trophy and acting like he was the good guy.

Wikipedia is telling me that Perseus killed her because King Polydectes ordered him to get Medusa's head as a gift (since Perseus didn't have any horses, and foolishly told Polydectes to name the gift he wanted). And I don't think he kept it as a trophy, instead giving it to Athena after killing Polydectes (since he tried to coerce Perseus' mom into marrying him).

But yeah, there's a long list of characters in Greek mythology who could use a rather thorough smacking.

2E Phoinex
2014-04-04, 07:19 PM
I always wanted to hit Perseus very hard over the head for taking a rape victim's head as a trophy and acting like he was the good guy.

On a lighter note, the Draconomicon has dragon scale armor in it, and Libris Mortis has Allip cloaks I think.

Well she did a lot of evil after being raped and then polymorphed. Plus how else are you going to slay the Kraken and make it with that hot Andromeda girl? I think we can cut Perseus a break and just all agree that Poseidon was a rapist and Athena was a jerk.

You could have someone make a charm out of a piece of a monster and the wielder would get a small bonus to hit against that monster type, or maybe even detect when monsters of that type are near.

Aedilred
2014-04-04, 08:30 PM
Wikipedia is telling me that Perseus killed her because King Polydectes ordered him to get Medusa's head as a gift (since Perseus didn't have any horses, and foolishly told Polydectes to name the gift he wanted). And I don't think he kept it as a trophy, instead giving it to Athena after killing Polydectes (since he tried to coerce Perseus' mom into marrying him).
Perseus, as the principal Mycenaean culture hero, has one of the more extensive portfolios of heroic deeds and finds his way into all sorts of situations he shouldn't really be in (simlarly to Heracles in that respect; some stories have him riding the pegasus instead of Bellerophon, accompanying the Argonauts, etc.) So the story of what he did with Medusa's head probably varies. I'm pretty sure there are stories that reference his having the head even after he was supposed to give it away. Albeit he seems usually to be using the head as a weapon, rather than a trophy.

Well she did a lot of evil after being raped and then polymorphed.
Yeah, at the time Perseus killed her, she wasn't exactly a bastion of virtue. Being the victim of a terrible crime doesn't get you a free pass on anything you might later do.

TheCountAlucard
2014-04-04, 08:41 PM
Excuse me... good guy?

"Hero" does not mean "good guy." At least, it didn't. To be a "hero" simply meant that you were a big important person who did big important things. This was true basically the world over.

Odysseus was a "hero" who spent the better part of a decade banging around on the ocean and repeatedly cheating on his wife, yet deciding that if she cheated on him, he'd have to kill her. He also somehow found the time to abuse hospitality, taunt a foe he'd blinded, and get everyone on his crew killed. And when he gets home he butchers all his houseguests and the lady servants of his house.

Herakles was a "hero" who murdered his music teacher in a fit of rage, murdered his family in a fit of rage, and really was just an all-around rageaholic. He was famous for doing his twelve labors, but most of those involved killing things, and even the ones that didn't usually ended up with someone dead.

The Great Sage Equalling Heaven, Sun Wukong, the Handsome Monkey King, was a "hero" who demanded gifts from dragons, smacked down the judges of the Underworld, personally ate enough longevity-bestowing comestibles to outlive the damned sun, and ran around laying waste to Heaven because he didn't like his job title. Also he ate a bunch of "fruit" that looked suspiciously like babies.

Really it's rarer by far to find a mythic "hero" who wasn't also a jackass.

Slipperychicken
2014-04-04, 11:16 PM
Really it's rarer by far to find a mythic "hero" who wasn't also a jackass.

Honestly, brushing up on my greek mythology has made me start to imagine the stereotypical PC as a somewhat accurate representation of ancient mythological heroes. Which also makes me think that an ancient-greece-inspired area (minus the alignment system) might be an excellent setting for a fantasy RPG campaign.

Think about it: Greek heroes would relentlessly abuse whatever advantages they had (mostly for fun and/or profit), murdered all sorts of people over the slightest grievance, swore rash oaths, and used tricks and legalese to try to circumvent their obligations.

TheCountAlucard
2014-04-05, 02:02 AM
Honestly, brushing up on my greek mythology has made me start to imagine the stereotypical PC as a somewhat accurate representation of ancient mythological heroes. Which also makes me think that an ancient-greece-inspired area (minus the alignment system) might be an excellent setting for a fantasy RPG campaign.

Think about it: Greek heroes would relentlessly abuse whatever advantages they had (mostly for fun and/or profit), murdered all sorts of people over the slightest grievance, swore rash oaths, and used tricks and legalese to try to circumvent their obligations.Ahem.

(points to my sig)

Though admittedly it's got a lot of Eastern themes and aesthetics in mind as well as the more common Western tropes, Exalted is more-or-less exactly in line with the things you said.

NikitaDarkstar
2014-04-05, 02:27 AM
To be honest, I think monster trophies would work best in a high magic setting. Why? Because there's less chance of that Fire Resistance 15 the paladin got from athe shield he made out of a single scale from a red great wyrm to be game breaking. It's neat fluff that may be useful from time to time, but that's it. But in a low magic campaign where such things are harder to come by it's more difficult.

That said I'd make it so that only very specific creatures have it. Cold Resistance can't be gotten from any old winter wolf you killed, it has to be one that was so powerful that the magic lingered even after it died.
There may be some downsides too of course. The dragon you skinned may have issues with the whole "rest in peace" deal with you running around wearing part of it's skin (and having a bad-ass new bow made out of it's thigh-bone) so you may find yourself being haunted by said dragon. And of course some more pro-dragon centric cults etc. may take personal offense and at the very least be Unfriendly towards you, but on the other hand, most other people who are neutral on the subject of dragons may be less than willing to fight someone who's clearly fairly competent with their weapon.