Doesn't anyone ever live? Or does death come to us all!

[HauntWrigs]

This weekend my group got together and continued our journey through a dark dungeon. By the end of the night all three of us had died. Which got me thinking, why does this always happen to me?

Here's the inventory. I've played three different characters in three different groups on three different adventures. And I have died three different times.


1) A half-orc monk who got his head cut off while giving chase through the forest. (3.5)
2) A dwarven bard who was incinerated by my companion who drank mysterious liquid and burped. (3.5)
3) A human cleric who was surrounded and killed by mysterious monsters in a dark dungeon. (4e)

So, my question is, how do you live to fight another day?

[Rhynn]

Play better.

Seriously. If your character dies (and you didn't want it for dramatic reasons), you've almost certainly made a mistake at some point.

My current campaign/adventure (module B4 The Lost City, adapted for ACKS) started out brutal: 2 PCs out of 3, plus 2 out of 5 henchmen, died in the first session, with 3 of those deaths in the second room & the first fight. Then the players got a handle on the new game, their next characters lived to level up, and although a few henchmen have gotten knocked off, they're now steadily leveling up and getting more resilient.

Lateral thinking is the main thing: you can't just go straight at everything and try to fight it. (Unless that's what your DM plan for, in which case that will work great, and using your brains too much will "ruin the game.") You need to circumvent combat, sneak, talk, negotiate, deceive, scout and reconnoiter, think, and plan. When you have to fight, you need to do it on your terms. Retreat when you're caught unprepared - and always make sure you can retreat. Not rout, with everyone running away on their own, but retreat, keeping your party together and preserving as much of your resources and strength as you can.

[Jay R]

Ask your DM(s). They know, and we do not know, what you did to cause those deaths, and what you should have done instead.

We can only guess, on incomplete information. For instance, in this case you were surrounded and killed by mysterious monsters in a dark dungeon. How did that happen? What was the marching order, and how were you checking for traps and tracks? Getting surrounded means not hugging the walls or lining up from wall to wall in a passage.

What specific tactics were you using to avoid getting surrounded while exploring a dangerous situation?

Similarly, why are you standing next to somebody when he is drinking a mysterious fluid? Why are you giving chase in a forest if there are things there more powerful than you?

If you do not use reasonable tactics, your characters are not likely to survive.

But these are guesses. Ask the DM.

[Kish]

Let me restate what you said, to make sure I understand it.

All three of the PCs in your current/most recent campaign died in the same session.

Separately, this makes the third character you've played who died (before being played much?).

Assuming my preceding two sentences were a correct restatement:

Was the DM the same for all of these games?

[Red Fel]

Was the DM the same for all of these games?

This. Echoing what Jay R observed, we don't have all of the information, so we can't give a complete explanation. But Kish touched on a key fact.

Getting decapitated in a forest can happen based on player incompetence, DM hostility, or just a bad roll of the dice. Likewise, dying in a dungeon.

But combusting because somebody drank a potion? That requires a DM who either (1) randomly generates potions, and includes in the random table a potion that causes people belched upon to combust, or (2) deliberately included a potion that causes people belched upon to combust. Either way, the matter is explained by DM action, almost exclusively.

If you happen to be dying a lot in this DM's games, it might not be your level of competence. It might be that the DM runs games that are more difficult than your level of optimization and gameplay. It might be that the DM is actively trying to kill the PCs. But as Kish pointed out, the first question is whether this is the same DM that's killed you off before.

If not? The one constant of your failed characters is their player.

[Telok]

Well, in the game I'm currently in one of the players has gone through four characters in five sessions. It's all him though, he only plays races with (D&D 3.5) Powerful Build and pure melee classes. He's died to things like being "unable" to cross a Grease spell and getting shot for four rounds, or spending three rounds climbing a 30' high wall which was defended by pikemen and archers. He's had one full plate harness wearing character jump off a pier and into the water to "get better flanking on that dude" while fighting kua-toa, when he knew that the healer of the party couldn't swim.

So chalk it up as a learning experience, keep trying, and be glad you aren't "that guy."

PS. #1 and #3 are "This is a group game, try to stay with the group. Running off alone is dangerous." #2 is "Unknown magic items can be dangerous." It was probably just an Elixer of Fire Breath, but you don't want to drink unlabeled bottles of chemicals you found in somebody else's house do you?

[Frozen_Feet]

I could echo the sentiment of "insufficient information", or I could give you a long, long list for general survival RPGs.

Instead, I'm going to examine your three deaths point by point, point a finger at you and mock you.


1) A half-orc monk who got his head cut off while giving chase through the forest. (3.5)

Why were you giving a chase in the first place? Let me guess: the territory was uncharted, you thought you had the enemy by the balls etc.

Well, hear this: common sense should dictate that you do not go running into an unknown forest. It's a good way to a) get lost, b) trip and break your ankle, c) wander into an ambush and d) get eaten by wolves.

If at all possible, you don't give chase over obstructed terrain. Not unless capturing the target is of utmost importance. If you do need to go for someone in the woods, get a large amount of men, move slowly and cautiously and send a pair of NPC scouts ahead. Move in a loose row with lots of space between seekers, so that only one of them can get trapped or ambushed at once.



2) A dwarven bard who was incinerated by my companion who drank mysterious liquid and burped. (3.5)

That's Potion of Fiery Breath for you. Pro-tip: friends don't let friends drink unidentified potions. If at all possible, enclose all such items in a metal, padded safebox where they're a) unlikely to break and b) won't spill over anything crucial if they do break. If using non-magical means to divine their purpose, do it in a lab, preferably wearing fullbody hazardous materials suit. In pseudo-medieval conditions, this means at least thick leather gloves, a leather apron and a cloth visor / gas mask.

Again common sense: when you find an unknown medicine in real life, is your first instinct to consume it it? Hell no! You pick it up with a shielded hand and take it to the apotechary to find out what the hat it is.


3) A human cleric who was surrounded and killed by mysterious monsters in a dark dungeon. (4e)

Here's a wild thought:

Going into a dark lair of some horrible monster is a horrible idea.

Yes, yes, I know. It's a genre convention. Heck, it's basically the point of the game!

But from an in-universe viewpoint? Going to fight monsters on their homeground is Darwin Award level stupid. You don't do it unless absolutely necessary. Most of the time, you should be trying to get them out in the open, where you and the army of NPCs you brought with you can outnumber and overpower it.

That said, if you do feel kind of unique in the suicidally insane manner, here's another pro-tip: carry a light source. Always ensure there's a way out and leave people behind to guard it. Don't venture in alone. Mark you path with rope, small stones, white chalk etc.

Also, to prevent yourself from being surrounded, leave guards at every crossroad inside a dungeon, and have a way to signal various groups of danger. This could be a crystal ball for scrying, or as simple as a bell or a whistle to alert one of the rear guards is being attacked.

Finally, remember: knowing the enemy is half of victory. Before venturing into an unknown area, do everything in your power to uncover what kind things might be living in there. Interrogate and question locals. Meditate or pray to your god for advice. Pay a gupsy to divine your future. Do whatever you can to get a clear picture of what you're facing.

If you can't do any of that, realize your chances of survival are, at best, 50%. Adventuring is a risky business, and if playd by the rules, D&D is a very lethal game. Each level, roughly 1-in-5 adventurers die. In earlier editions, this number was 1-in-5 each encounter.

I know your GM is working hard to ensure your encounters are "challenging" and "interesting", but from in-universe point-of-view? You almost always want "easy" and "boring" instead. Do everything you can to rig the game in your favor.

But ultimately, it's the fate of all things under the sky, to grow old and wither and die. Ultimately, Death does come to us all - the point of being careful is so you can brag about dying in your own bed, surrounded by people you love, rather than with your pants down in some dank basement.

[Tengu_temp]

From my point of view, at least the second of these deaths looks like the DM being a ****. So play with less killer DMs, and be more careful. How did you get surrounded and separated from the party in 4e, for example? This sounds like either a big error on your part or the DM purposely putting you in a very hard situation.

[Slipperychicken]

As an experienced player, I'll share some generalized RPG survival tips:


Do not split the party. You don't have to take showers together, but travel in pairs when in a "safe zone" (such as a town, tavern, or friendly temple), and stay within ~30ft of party members when exploring a "danger zone" (such as a dungeon) and always keep your party members in sight. This will help prevent being singled out or mugged. Although this is a common horror movie trope and should be obvious to anyone who has grown up around movies, people amazingly still fall for it (even those who ridicule horror-movie protagonists for splitting up), and are slaughtered like jocks in a slasher movie.

If you are "scouting ahead", try to only scout 60ft ahead (or whatever distance from which you can return to the party with a single action). Have a plan in case you get caught, even if that plan is to simply run back to the party while dropping caltrops. Tell the party something like "if I do not return in one minute, call for me".

*Always* have a light source or nightvision on your person. Things can get dark fast (i.e. moving underground, into an unlit structure, caught in a darkness spell, etc), and you need to be prepared for that. Ideally, you should be able to activate this as quickly as possible, or even underwater.

Use cover and/or concealment whenever the option is available. This is hilariously easy, and almost all RPGs with detailed combat systems give some kind of bonus for doing so. Corners are an easy way to accomplish this, as are furniture and tables. Ask your GM to describe nearby objects if you aren't sure whether or not they can be used for cover.

When you have time, carefully examine doors and containers before opening them. Check them for traps (multiple times if possible. Taking 20, or the equivalent, is the ideal. Better tedious than dead). Put a mirror under the door to see the adjoining room, and use any applicable technology or magic. Do not enter doors in danger zones which you have not thoroughly investigated.
Keep all manner of tools on hand (such as a swiss army knife, crowbar, burglars' tools, hammer, shovel, rope, string, or similar). These will help you perform all sorts of tasks, and are usually quite cheap compared to the enormous benefits they yield.
When a party member is going to open an unsecured door or container in a "danger zone", and you do not need to swiftly make entry, stay 20-30ft away to avoid being caught in a trap or other hazard.
When you're entering a room to inflict violence on its inhabitants, try to precede your entry with explosives or area-effects. Just like how a SWAT team deploys grenades into rooms prior to entry.
Women in-game are not romantically interested in your character. Do not succumb to their tricks. They usually exist either to betray you while you're alone and vulnerable, or to be placed in danger and drag you into a quest. The former is much more common than the latter.
Treat NPCs, the GM, and the world with respect. This will help make the GM not as angry at you. The GM might not screw you over as often.
If there is a knowledge skill or similar statistic, use it as often as you can, about everything related to the current situation. The stuff you you learn from such rolls can save your life.

[Tengu_temp]

Someone's been watching a lot of Counter Monkey, I see. I disagree with some of these points.

Not splitting apart the party is sound advice, but going everywhere in pairs when you're in a safe zone is bull. If your DM will drop a gang of thugs on you as soon as you separate from the party in a city, for no reason other than to "teach you", then it's a killer DM and you shouldn't play with him.

Similarily, the "all women are trouble" point is bull, and pretty sexist to boot. If that always happens in your games, then you need to play with less dumb and/or sexually repressed people.

[Slipperychicken]

Someone's been watching a lot of Counter Monkey, I see. I disagree with some of these points.

Not splitting apart the party is sound advice, but going everywhere in pairs when you're in a safe zone is bull. If your DM will drop a gang of thugs on you as soon as you separate from the party in a city, for no reason other than to "teach you", then it's a killer DM and you shouldn't play with him.

Similarily, the "all women are trouble" point is bull, and pretty sexist to boot. If that always happens in your games, then you need to play with less dumb and/or sexually repressed people.

To be clear, I am aware that such portrayals are not representative of real life. The women bit was partly ripped from Spoony. I've seen it happen once or twice in-game, heard many similar stories thrown around online (not just from Spoony, but many, many others), and seen the scenario play out enough times in video games and fiction to make me believe it's quite common in roleplaying games. I have seen romance played straight once or twice in-game too (i.e. love interest is not evil or a quest hook), but I'm told that's the exception rather than the rule. If you can convince me that seductresses and love-interests are not to be feared in D&D, then I'll gladly strike that piece of advice from my notes.


As for traveling in pairs, I stand by that. Picking on lone PCs being bad GMing or not isn't relevant to my advice. All I can say is that such encounters do happen, and traveling in pairs is one way to guard against them. It has some grounding in reality, since there's safety in numbers (thieves, muggers, and bullies are not as likely to attack if you outnumber them): that's why people IRL are advised to travel in groups when possible, especially in dangerous areas or when there's a risk of assault. Player-characters are constantly at risk of assault, wherever they are, whatever they're doing. It's not fair, but that's how it works.

[Jay R]

Not splitting apart the party is sound advice, but going everywhere in pairs when you're in a safe zone is bull. If your DM will drop a gang of thugs on you as soon as you separate from the party in a city, for no reason other than to "teach you", then it's a killer DM and you shouldn't play with him.

It makes better sense when re-phrased.

You are never in a safe zone. In town, there are thieves, looking for rich people to rob. If you've come from an adventure, you probably qualify.

A thinking DM doesn't "drop a gang of thugs on you as soon as you separate from the party in a city, for no reason." A thinking DM already knows about the Thieves' Guild in town, and knows that if it's well-organized, they are watching the city gates for rich people not traveling with a large guard.

A successful adventuring party ought to be a magnet for thieves, swindlers, con-men, and local nobles needing special skills, and legitimate business offers. If you're wearing traveling clothes, but can afford to stay at the best inn, you are and should be a target.

And all of that is separate from the fact that you've probably developed some enemies and/or rivals.

[Rhynn]

You are never in a safe zone. In town, there are thieves, looking for rich people to rob. If you've come from an adventure, you probably qualify.

PCs tend to make enemies, and smart enemies are going to wait until the party splits up to attack. That's not being a "killer GM," that's playing the enemy intelligently. (Obviously, with unintelligent players, that may amount to the same...)

[Tengu_temp]

The way I see it, danger for the players should be foreshadowed. If they know that some shadowy group took interest in them, or if they're hanging out in the bad side of town, then they should watch their backs even in a city. But if they're just spending some downtime in the safe districts, with no loose ends hanging around? There is no reason to drop sudden assassins on them, unless you want to promote paranoia among your players. And from my experience, paranoia is detrimental to roleplaying.


To be clear, I am aware that such portrayals are not representative of real life. The women bit was partly ripped from Spoony. I've seen it happen once or twice in-game, heard many similar stories thrown around online (not just from Spoony, but many, many others), and seen the scenario play out enough times in video games and fiction to make me believe it's quite common in roleplaying games. I have seen romance played straight once or twice in-game too (i.e. love interest is not evil or a quest hook), but I'm told that's the exception rather than the rule. If you can convince me that seductresses and love-interests are not to be feared in D&D, then I'll gladly strike that piece of advice from my notes.

This problem is common because, if you ask me, RPG gamers tend to be socially awkward and sexually repressed in general, and often have unhealthy approaches to romance and sexuality because of that. A female assassin or a succubus feigning interest in one of the male PCs in order to get close to them is a good, if cliche plot hook if used occassionally... But if it happens every time then your DM has issues, man.

[Dienekes]

This problem is common because, if you ask me, RPG gamers tend to be socially awkward and sexually repressed in general, and often have unhealthy approaches to romance and sexuality because of that. A female assassin or a succubus feigning interest in one of the male PCs in order to get close to them is a good, if cliche plot hook if used occassionally... But if it happens every time then your DM has issues, man.

This is interesting to me. I am not interested in romance or sexuality, really at all. So in games I run it tends to be completely ignored unless it becomes plot important. So the one time I can think of that I actually did use a female NPC being interested in a player character it most definitely was an attempt to get close to a PC for an ulterior motives.

Which sort of leads to my advice to the HauntWrings. Losing a character isn't a bad thing. But if you want to avoid it, the game is not just about playing the right build or rolling higher (though that definitely helps). You need to be able to read your GMs. Recognize their patterns, what they try to pepper into their campaigns. If they start doing something out of the ordinary (like if your sexless goon of a GM is throwing a flirtatious woman at you) pay attention and be suspicious. Also, if necessary, run away. If you're in a dark room filled with unknown monsters, run. Get more information, use your head to figure out how to make these fights easier for you.

[imaloony]

Sometimes it's just bad luck. Once I was playing a one-shot with some buddies. I was playing a Barbarian or a Fighter or something, and we were all level 1. Our group walks into the first room, the enemies attack us, and the first hit crits for max damage against me and my head comes off.

That being said, remember to ask your DMs a lot of questions about the battle. What do the enemies look like? Does one seem to be dressed differently from the others? Has that enemy moved at all this battle? Does he seem to be casting a big "Die in a fire" spell?
Even if you don't always get a straight answer or much of an answer at all, details will help you know what's the biggest threat, how exactly to approach, any tricks the enemies might have planned, and when it might just be best to turn tail and run. Also, keep your full arsenal in mind. My buddies and I are always forgetting about the potions we have, but when I break a few of them out, it usually makes a tough fight much easier.

Most importantly, only split the party if you have literally no other choice. If you stumble across an encounter that your DM intended for your entire party to be fighting, you've just painted "Kill me!" on your forehead.