The Elder Scrolls Online I - Following The Blind

[Calemyr]

Since it hasn't been made yet, and since pre-order players have been able to play since March 30th, here's a thread for the brand new massively multiplayer online RPG, The Elder Scrolls Online.

Let the conversation begin!

[Sylthia]

Cool, my ID is @Rezkeshdadesh if anyone wants to add me. I'm currently playing a Dominion High Elf Sorcerer named Rhea Morgray. Hopefully, I'll have time in the coming week to play more. I think I'm only level 6 at the moment.

[Calemyr]

@calemyr, here. (Sweet Sheo, I'm predictable...)
I've got a Dominion aligned Imperial Templar by the name of Hurricane Rayne I'm using to start.

[Vaynor]

My ID is @Kyras2, feel free to add me! I just started though and I won't have much time to play until school is over in May, so you'll probably be higher level than me.

[Sylthia]

I'll try to add everyone next time I'm on, hopefully tomorrow.

EDIT: I'm dog tired after work today, so no gaming for me tonight, but maybe tomorrow.

[Calemyr]

Has anyone tried to use the set crafting stations? It's a clever idea, I think.

All three factions have all three of the original stations. I've found all three in Covenant and Dominion (never got far enough in Pact).
You can craft a set item out of anything you have two traits for (so far, I assume later sets will require more traits).

The sets I've found so far (don't remember the names exactly):
Death's Wind: If you have three Death's Wind items equipped, and get taken below a certain health threshold, you knock back everyone in melee with you.
Silent Hunter: If you have three Silent Hunter items equipped, you get a boost (40%, I think) to health regen while hidden.
Ashen Grasp: If you have three Ashen Grasp items equipped, you have a chance (10%, I think) to do extra fire damage based on item level when attacking.

I haven't actually used any of these yet (getting 3 items researched enough is hard to do in a beta), but I'm just curious if anyone has tried to make use of them? Given that they don't take the place of a trait or enchantment, they seem like a no-brainer if you have your skill high enough.

[Sylthia]

I'm trying to log on now, but it looks like a lengthy patch download is needed first.

[Vaz]

My ID is @VazPembroke, on the NA server, currently a level 8 (I think?) Redguard Dragon knight in the Covenant, focusing on Draconic Power, just unlocked the Dragon Leap ultimate ability, and holy hell, is it awesome. No bugs yet to report. Was a quick and clean download, and installation.

Really impressed with this so far, although I'm yet to see where the game was better served being an MMORPG rather than an RPG with small online party based gamemode being available; it's all been fairly 1p atm, although I've appreciated the times when I've had the other player there to quickly take interest away from myself.

[Animastryfe]

My username is the same as my forum username. I am currently playing a level 7-ish Dunmer Dragonknight. I am really looking forward to the PvP in Cyrodiil.

[Sylthia]

I'm not sure how much I'll like the end game once I get to it. I've never been that into PvP. Hopefully, the leveling process can provide some classic ES entertainment, though. I need to find more skill stones. There's so many skills I want to pick up, and leveling takes quite a while.

[Otomodachi]

Trying to get a refund for my copy. Pretty bummed. :/

[Sylthia]

Trying to get a refund for my copy. Pretty bummed. :/

Sorry to hear that. I'm having a decent time.

Has anyone started a Playgrounder Guild or would have any interest in having one?

[Kislath]

I haven't trued ESO yet, since my old computer can't handle it, but I've been reading about it and it looks pretty cool.
I haven't seen any actual screenshots, though, only painted art. I'll keep digging.

It looks like they made it gank-proof, though. In PvP, your level instantly rises temporarily to match that of your would-be ganker.
That's awesome.
I avoid PvP servers in WoW, but ESO might make it enjoyable.

[Animastryfe]

PvP is only available in Cyrodiil, which is a large zone meant for the realm vs realm PvP that is a large portion of the game. Characters can enter Cyrodiil from level 10, whereupon most of their stats get buffed to level 50 numbers. However, higher level characters will still have an advantage from more skill points, and perhaps better stats from armour. I am not sure how the game calculates the buffs that it gives lower level characters.

PvP in general, and the quests in Cyrodiil, give experience, but at a slower pace than pure PvE.

[AdmiralCheez]

PvP is only available in Cyrodiil, which is a large zone meant for the realm vs realm PvP that is a large portion of the game. Characters can enter Cyrodiil from level 10, whereupon most of their stats get buffed to level 50 numbers. However, higher level characters will still have an advantage from more skill points, and perhaps better stats from armour. I am not sure how the game calculates the buffs that it gives lower level characters.

PvP in general, and the quests in Cyrodiil, give experience, but at a slower pace than pure PvE.

I like the sound of that. That's always been a thing that bothered me about other MMOs, where in order to do anything PvP related (which many people consider to be the real part of the game), you have to be max level and have the best gear, just to be considered competitive. This sounds like they still have the advantage, but with the right tactics, a level 10 might win.

If or when this game goes free-to-play, I might pick it up. Right now, I just can't afford the subscription.

[Ionbound]

I like the sound of that. That's always been a thing that bothered me about other MMOs, where in order to do anything PvP related (which many people consider to be the real part of the game), you have to be max level and have the best gear, just to be considered competitive. This sounds like they still have the advantage, but with the right tactics, a level 10 might win.

If or when this game goes free-to-play, I might pick it up. Right now, I just can't afford the subscription.

Three words: Guild Wars Two. Buffs you to max level for PvP, regional PvP like this, and, and, a one time payment with no subscription fee. I think ESO took a lot of cues from GW2, but they missed one of the most important ones: No subscription.

[Calemyr]

Three words: Guild Wars Two. Buffs you to max level for PvP, regional PvP like this, and, and, a one time payment with no subscription fee. I think ESO took a lot of cues from GW2, but they missed one of the most important ones: No subscription.

I will quit this game the moment it becomes F2P. Free-to-play games suck in the worst way: nickling and diming you at every opportunity, making everything worth doing take either forever or cost real coin, and just generally feeling "cheap". Going F2P killed my experience in SWTOR, Secret World, and City of Heroes, and my experiences with Guild Wars 1 & 2 have not helped my perception of the paradigm.

I keep thinking "Hey, a guilt free MMO. I like this idea." but what I keep concluding is "Poor support, infuriating micro-transactions, insufferable players, little-to-no ongoing development, no personality, and no ability to modify the game to make it fun. I'd rather just go play Baldur's Gate 2 or whatever Bethesda game came out most recently."

For now, I like the game. I don't know how much replay there is for alts (could have SWTOR syndrome), but it's very well written, nicely customizable, and very pretty. The fact that it uses lore I'm already attached to makes it infinitely more enjoyable for me. This must be what it felt like for Warcraft fanboys to play WoW.

But if it becomes just another stale F2P game, I'd rather just go back to Skyrim. At least there I can find new fan-generated content to mix and match for my game.

I believe M'aiq the Liar has a line about this: "Some people want to buy the meal, some people only want to pay for what's on their plate. M'aiq just like to eat." I'm the sort who wants to buy the meal - I'm paying for the experience. P2P games come with a certain expectation of quality of experience and service and expanding content. F2P games are just a blatant cash grab to make whatever coin they can before the servers go down for good.

[Ionbound]

I will quit this game the moment it becomes F2P. Free-to-play games suck in the worst way: nickling and diming you at every opportunity, making everything worth doing take either forever or cost real coin, and just generally feeling "cheap". Going F2P killed my experience in SWTOR, Secret World, and City of Heroes, and my experiences with Guild Wars 1 & 2 have not helped my perception of the paradigm.

I keep thinking "Hey, a guilt free MMO. I like this idea." but what I keep concluding is "Poor support, infuriating micro-transactions, insufferable players, little-to-no ongoing development, no personality, and no ability to modify the game to make it fun. I'd rather just go play Baldur's Gate 2 or whatever Bethesda game came out most recently."

For now, I like the game. I don't know how much replay there is for alts (could have SWTOR syndrome), but it's very well written, nicely customizable, and very pretty. The fact that it uses lore I'm already attached to makes it infinitely more enjoyable for me. This must be what it felt like for Warcraft fanboys to play WoW.

But if it becomes just another stale F2P game, I'd rather just go back to Skyrim. At least there I can find new fan-generated content to mix and match for my game.

I'm not saying it should be F2P. I saying you should pay for the game, once, and have that be it. The subscription fee model is so unpopular, the only game that can get away with it are WoW, and only because Blizzard has invested a lot of time, effort, and dirty tricks into ensuring people never cancel their subscription. The other ones had to go F2P because they didn't have enough people willing to subscribe to them to keep them alive, and were forced to go F2P to attract new players. Guild Wars 1 and 2, on the other hand, charged a one-time fee, and are still doing pretty well. And don't go on about insufferable players. WoW has just as many, if not more, idiots playing, to the point where Blizzard themselves makes jokes about it, and, as I mentioned, is the, if not designer, the popularizer of the P2P model.

[Calemyr]

I'm not saying it should be F2P. I saying you should pay for the game, once, and have that be it. The subscription fee model is so unpopular, the only game that can get away with it are WoW, and only because Blizzard has invested a lot of time, effort, and dirty tricks into ensuring people never cancel their subscription. The other ones had to go F2P because they didn't have enough people willing to subscribe to them to keep them alive, and were forced to go F2P to attract new players. Guild Wars 1 and 2, on the other hand, charged a one-time fee, and are still doing pretty well. And don't go on about insufferable players. WoW has just as many, if not more, idiots playing, to the point where Blizzard themselves makes jokes about it, and, as I mentioned, is the, if not designer, the popularizer of the P2P model.

By F2P I'm including hosted games that are purchased once and free from then on - such as Guild Wars 2 or, as I came to call it, "the exercise in futility". Once a game stops being paid for by how well they please the fans and instead become a study in how to bleed said fans dry with micro-transactions or make them suffer for their progress, the quality of the game drops like a bleeding rock. Which is fine by me, maybe they can squeeze their blood from that stone instead of me.

Guild Wars 2 had some great ideas to it. I would love it if ESO adopted more of them, like the Collections bank for crafting resources. But the whole diamond trade pissed me off. And the combat quickly got pretty stale. (You don't get any attacks for weapons after the fifth as near as I could tell. Once you've unlocked all five for your weapon combination, those were the only five attacks you had. And even if they were cool attacks, that gets really old after a while. I had every weapon my class could use completely unlocked by level 20 just to keep the combat fresh.)

And for the record, I don't like WoW. I don't like the feel of the game-play, I don't like the impersonal plot, I don't like the general attitude of the players, I just don't enjoy the game. Not sure I like the players in ESO any better, and I'm really sic of spam-bots filling the chat log with offers to buy gold.

[AdmiralCheez]

Three words: Guild Wars Two. Buffs you to max level for PvP, regional PvP like this, and, and, a one time payment with no subscription fee. I think ESO took a lot of cues from GW2, but they missed one of the most important ones: No subscription.

I've actually considered trying GW2 for a while now. A few friends of mine had all agreed that we would try and start a group together, but none of us have actually gotten around to getting the game yet. I'm thinking I might as well just go for it.

Back on the topic of Elder Scrolls Online, I just found out that my dad has been playing since the beta. He's been into pretty much every major MMO in the recent years, with the exception of Guild Wars, for some reason. EQ, EQ2, WoW, LotRO, and a few others I can't remember at the moment. It seems that this was exactly what he has been wanting - an elder scrolls-style game with hotbar gameplay. So, that's good for him, I guess.

[Animastryfe]

I agree with Calemyr regarding the subscription fee; I do not mind it. I request that people be careful when discussing this, as it seems to easily lead to anger and the non-purely-logical form of argument.

I did some PvP in Cyrodiil last night. It was very fun, although there was a bad server issue where having too many people nearby made some people disconnect, or have very bad intermittent lag spikes. The buff to lower level players in Cyrodiil appears to be a flat buff to health, magicka, stamina, armour piercing, and range of certain abilities. Thus, higher level players will have an advantage, but from experience and reading some other people's experiences, it does seem that lower level players can defeat much higher level players.

I am in the North America Ebonheart Pact Reddit guild, and we play on the Scourge PvP campaign. A few days ago, the Aldmeri Dominion had conquered nearly all of Cyrodiil. Ebonheart Pact and Daggerfall Covenant were pushed to almost their last literally unconquerable keeps, but as of last night EP and DC pushed back hard and reduced AD's territory to about 3 or 4 keeps. There are 18 keeps in all. Many campaigns are either not very populated right now, or have a population imbalance. This is to be expected, as the game is very new and many players have not yet started PvP. There is a large, organized AD guild on Scourge that is doing most of the fighting, but from last night it seems that DC and EP have a fighting chance. Also, the EP Reddit guild has over 300 members at least, so we may be able to ally with other EP guilds and fight back effectively.

Also, from what I have read, tanking in this game is quite different from other games. The tank is not expected to hold threat from all the mobs, for example. This is a good recent tanking guide (http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/22qcs9/tanking_101_a_guide_for_new_and_beginner_level/).

[Sylthia]

I seem to have lost my Friend list for some reason. Hopefully it comes back, but I may have to readd everyone.

[Animastryfe]

This should be because the servers are overloaded. Other symptoms include very laggy chat, long loading times into Cyrodiil, and disappearing guild and friend lists.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Three words: Guild Wars Two. Buffs you to max level for PvP, regional PvP like this, and, and, a one time payment with no subscription fee. I think ESO took a lot of cues from GW2, but they missed one of the most important ones: No subscription.

New content for GW series is also paid for by buying constant expansions, and supposed F2P MMOs all have some sort of VIP Subscriber system to pay for pushing out more content.


Free To play is a terrible system and I have seen all of 2 companies understand how to handle it properly.

[Partysan]

I don't think F2P is that bad inherently, it's just far far easier to get wrong.
I refuse to play subscription games. Not neccessarily because they don't deserve the money (although I do consider the price unreasonable for most of them) but because a subscription basically forces me to commit to playing as much as I can to get my money's worth. As extra creditz say "MMOs are designed to be played to the exclusion of everything else." I like my variety and having to pay monthly admission takes away my capability to choose my own playtime in a financially responsible manner.
Thus, I have played a lot of F2P games over the years, most of them only for a short time because most really are kind of bad, no question about it. That said, I don't see where TSW is out for cash grabs honestly. I haven't seen a single in-game ad except on the browser startpage. Guild Wars 1 also was a very good game and never heckled you about buying anything. Being able to jump into a game, play for a while and then decide whether to commit some money or just leave it is worth a lot to me as someone who prefers playing multiple games in parallel.

[Sylthia]

I don't mind sub games, but I hate it when you have to double pay. I think $60 plus $15 per month is a bit steep. I tried ESO because some of my online friends have it, but many of my non-online friends are trying it because of the steep price.

[sihnfahl]

I don't know how much replay there is for alts (could have SWTOR syndrome)
Three alliances to choose from. So you could do three characters minimum, no issue. Just the flavor of the four classes.

Also, you get some alternative interactions based off decisions during certain quests.

For example, there's a quest where you help a guy whose husband is sick, but his husband won't tell him what ails him. The husband DOES, on the other hand, go to a secret village for 'treatment'. Long story short, he got turned into a werewolf, and the village was headed by a werewolf who would help 'treat' werewolves at the cost of them never being able to leave the village or reveal their nature. Decision - free the husband and bring him back, so he can try to control the curse on his own with his lover, or ensure he stays in the village...

Right now, there's a bit of fighting due to the quality of Tier 1 support and the vast number of quest / interaction bugs.

As for PvP, yes, 'normalized' low-level players CAN take down a normal level 50, but not as easily. The skills may scale up to do damage, but they don't have the perks of the morphs...

[Sylthia]

Three alliances to choose from. So you could do three characters minimum, no issue. Just the flavor of the four classes.

Also, you get some alternative interactions based off decisions during certain quests.

For example, there's a quest where you help a guy whose husband is sick, but his husband won't tell him what ails him. The husband DOES, on the other hand, go to a secret village for 'treatment'. Long story short, he got turned into a werewolf, and the village was headed by a werewolf who would help 'treat' werewolves at the cost of them never being able to leave the village or reveal their nature. Decision - free the husband and bring him back, so he can try to control the curse on his own with his lover, or ensure he stays in the village...

Right now, there's a bit of fighting due to the quality of Tier 1 support and the vast number of quest / interaction bugs.

As for PvP, yes, 'normalized' low-level players CAN take down a normal level 50, but not as easily. The skills may scale up to do damage, but they don't have the perks of the morphs...

They have same sex marriages in game? I know threads on the WoW forums are always popping up about LGBT being under represented.

[sihnfahl]

They have same sex marriages in game? I know threads on the WoW forums are always popping up about LGBT being under represented.
Only two that I've found of yet.

Oh, and Sheogorath? Yeah, he's the main one behind the entire Mage's Guild questline. And he's hilarious as always. In that cheerful, "oh, let's have a party, eat some cheese and kill everyone" hilarity.

[Sylthia]

Down for maintenance for now. Hopefully, it doesn't last all night.

I wish Soul Stones weren't so pricey. Maybe it gets better later, but they seem to be a bit too expensive at low levels to be worth it.

[Loreweaver15]

So, here's a question which will determine whether I play this game or not: Is it an MMO, or is it a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game?

[Sylthia]

So, here's a question which will determine whether I play this game or not: Is it an MMO, or is it a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game?

It's an MMO, but it still feels very Elder Scrollsy. Most of the quests have good stories behind them and let you makke choices about how you progress. There's not as many collect 50 bear asses quests as you see with most other MMOs.

If you're on the fence, I'd say wait until there is either a free trial period or some sort of recruit a friend deal. Alternatively, if you have a friend with the game, see if you can make a character on their account to see if you like it. You could also wait to see if it goes free-to-play.

At the $60+$15/month price tag, I can't recommend a purchase if you are unsure and otherwise don't like MMOs.

[Loreweaver15]

It's an MMO, but it still feels very Elder Scrollsy. Most of the quests have good stories behind them and let you makke choices about how you progress. There's not as many collect 50 bear asses quests as you see with most other MMOs.

If you're on the fence, I'd say wait until there is either a free trial period or some sort of recruit a friend deal. Alternatively, if you have a friend with the game, see if you can make a character on their account to see if you like it. You could also wait to see if it goes free-to-play.

At the $60+$15/month price tag, I can't recommend a purchase if you are unsure and otherwise don't like MMOs.

Thanks for this VERY clear answer. I HATE MMOs; I don't enjoy them at all, whatsoever, but I love TES enough that once the game's gone down i'll give it a try, at least.

[AdmiralCheez]

Wait - It doesn't already have a free trial? I feel like those should be mandatory for subscription-based MMOs. I also feel like that was just part of the formula. WoW had one, I'm pretty sure EQ2 had one, EVE still has one. Not sure about the Old Republic, or some of the others.

[Animastryfe]

Down for maintenance for now. Hopefully, it doesn't last all night.

I wish Soul Stones weren't so pricey. Maybe it gets better later, but they seem to be a bit too expensive at low levels to be worth it.

At level 20+, I no longer worry about soul gems. I no longer repair or recharge my gear as upgrades come often enough, and bosses in public dungeons drop soul gems quite often. You buy empty soul gems form vendors, right? I generally do not use soul gems except in non-public dungeons and in Cyrodiil.

[Sylthia]

Wait - It doesn't already have a free trial? I feel like those should be mandatory for subscription-based MMOs. I also feel like that was just part of the formula. WoW had one, I'm pretty sure EQ2 had one, EVE still has one. Not sure about the Old Republic, or some of the others.

It just launched, so they may be waiting until the servers stabilize and the bugs are ironed out.

[AdmiralCheez]

That's a good point. Maybe they'll have one in a few months, or so. If they do, I'll probably give it a shot.

[sihnfahl]

So, here's a question which will determine whether I play this game or not: Is it an MMO, or is it a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game?
As Rezkeshdadesh said, it's a MMO with an Elder Scrolls feel.

That being said, I'd agree with holding back until they fix a few things. There are quests that bug out to frustrating levels. Because of filters, gold sellers have taken to using guild invites to spam their ads; you literally get a pop-up while exploring that someone with a funky name wants you to join a guild whose name is a URL of a gold seller site.

In some places, GL harvesting any mats, because they already have bots that teleport under the world and gather at high speed.

And certain mobs (even quest ones)? Camped to high heaven. I was on a standard 'kill a few of these opponents to move on in the contest that will free your companions'... and the mobs are on a road that's effectively circular.

You can guess how the bot train looked.

Public dungeons? Yeah, you usually have a minimum of five bots just standing there ... then zerg the end boss down. Endless respawn, endless rewards.

They've nerfed rewards, altered their original PvP setup because of predictable abuse, and they really haven't gotten into PvP class balancing because they didn't test morphed skills on a mass level in PvP. Maybe a few morphed skills, but not the top end ones.

[Calemyr]

It is an MMO, through and through, but it's an Elder Scrolls MMO. This means that, for all its bugs and foibles (and there are an awful lot of both), there is something... remarkable beneath the surface that makes it work when on paper it really shouldn't.

I can't stand WoW. I really can't. My brother is a WoW fanatic and so I've tried and tried to get into the game, but I can't make it a month without losing interest. The attacks don't have any impact, the plot doesn't have any meaning, and my efforts rarely have any effect on the world around me. The conflicts are arbitrary and binary, the art style is overblown, and the game is 90% busy work and 10% actual story.

ESO, on the other hand is a game I really can't put down even when I really should. Grinding against monsters an option (and a solid way to gather leather materials), but is generally not necessary as quests are worth far more XP. If you do the quests for a zone, you'll be leveled enough to handle the next zone. This means that the 'busy work' takes a back seat to the quests and they have (in my experience, at least) fairly high quality writing supporting them. The best part? The quests are usually about the mobs in the area, but not focused on them: a quest may be trying to figure out why these humanoid stone creatures are attacking a clan of displaced wood elves, but the actual objectives are about sealing the holes they're crawling out of and talking to their leader rather, with the stone men being primarily something you have to sneak around or fight through to achieve the goal. (And since killing them isn't the lion's share of your XP, you can sneak around them without losing much if you want to play it that way.)

The combat has a sense of impact fueling it. Not always and it could have more, but there is enough to satisfy me. Knockdown and power attacks feel like they have some weight to them. I like not having an auto-attack - means that I am taking an active role in the combat at all times.

The plot has small-scale but meaningful consequences to it. Those stone men mentioned earlier? They're protecting a vulnerable vital point for the forest and acting without malice but simply following their purpose. Allowing the elves to settle there will do irreparable harm to the forest in some way, while killing the leader of the stone men will make them passive again. Do you drive the elves out or kill the leader of the stone men? One way the fortress is populated by friendly elves, the other way it's populated by neutral stone men. Another nice feature of the plot (and one that was often mocked regarding Skyrim), plots reference each other. The Mages Guild quest line is centered around a struggle between long dead archmage Shalidor and Sheogorath the delightfully psychotic prince of madness. Run across Sheogorath elsewhere in the world, and he cheerfully recognizes your efforts for the Mages Guild. If one of the quests has background ties to another, you can mention your previous experiences. The villain of one dungeon can be the husband of the hero in another dungeon. Reveal a traitor in one quest and you don't have to act surprised when her sudden treachery throws a town in chaos somewhere else. Someone mentions that they doubt a supposed nature god exists and you can point out that not only does the god exist but is your friend and incidentally a woman. It's not all interconnected, but enough of it is that I actually feel connected to events.

It isn't perfect. Dear Silly Sheo, is it not perfect. Animations freeze on me somewhat regularly, forcing me to hit the escape key in the middle of a fight in order to keep swinging. The inventory system is atrocious: 70 slots isn't bad unless you have 100 weapon and armor traits to research, a good 20 ingredients for your current tier of cooking, and more than thirty runes you have to mix and match to create enchantments. Oh yeah, and add to that a good dozen gems that add traits to equipment you craft, four types of refined and four types of unrefined materials per tier, 16 types of upgrade materials to improve the quality of your gear, some 15 alchemical reagents, a dozen or so "style" reagents to give your equipment a certain racial motif, vendor trash, and then any potions or food you want to bring along. It's really quite frustrating.

That said, I find that I adore this game and have been playing it with fascination and really thinking about the choices the game sets before me. Should an expectant father abandon his duties or his pregnant wife? Is it right to put the fate of the remnants of a clan shattered by a horde of undead you have tried and failed to stop over the long term health of the environment? Should all vampires be put to the sword, or can they ever be trusted to eke out an existence that doesn't prey directly on the living?

Yeah, I'm enjoying it.

[sihnfahl]

The inventory system is atrocious: 70 slots isn't bad unless you have 100 weapon and armor traits to research, a good 20 ingredients for your current tier of cooking, and more than thirty runes you have to mix and match to create enchantments. Oh yeah, and add to that a good dozen gems that add traits to equipment you craft, four types of refined and four types of unrefined materials per tier, 16 types of upgrade materials to improve the quality of your gear, some 15 alchemical reagents, a dozen or so "style" reagents to give your equipment a certain racial motif, vendor trash, and then any potions or food you want to bring along. It's really quite frustrating.

Of course, you can buy bag and bank slots (in increments of 10) in increasingly more expensive per item costs. I think the last time I added 10 slots, it cost me 11k gold in a game that takes 'skimpy gold drops' to a new level. You want gold? Craft and sell. Can't even pickpocket or find gold in people's homes.

The interesting aspect of it is that you can access your bank from any crafting table in the world... well, more to the point, you can USE the things in your bank, just not deposit / withdraw. This comes in handy at the rare crafting tables.

[Sylthia]

Of course, you can buy bag and bank slots (in increments of 10) in increasingly more expensive per item costs. I think the last time I added 10 slots, it cost me 11k gold in a game that takes 'skimpy gold drops' to a new level. You want gold? Craft and sell. Can't even pickpocket or find gold in people's homes.

The interesting aspect of it is that you can access your bank from any crafting table in the world... well, more to the point, you can USE the things in your bank, just not deposit / withdraw. This comes in handy at the rare crafting tables.

To go along with that thought, I think the inventory space that you carry on you would be enough, if the bank space was increased ten-fold or the space upgrades weren't so obscenely expensive.

The bank space isn't any bigger than your carry-on bag and it has to be shared between ALL your characters. With the amount of crafting items you have, you don't want to simply throw them away, and you're soon having to carry your mats around with you, because your bank is perpetually full. I'm lucky to have 20 free inventory slots AFTER selling my junk and crafting what I can.

[sihnfahl]

The bank space isn't any bigger than your carry-on bag and it has to be shared between ALL your characters. With the amount of crafting items you have, you don't want to simply throw them away, and you're soon having to carry your mats around with you, because your bank is perpetually full. I'm lucky to have 20 free inventory slots AFTER selling my junk and crafting what I can.
Right now, because I'm on the three day research cycle level for armor, I've got a lot of equipment just sitting, waiting for research (so I can complete an armor set, I'm not doing weapons, just armor). However, because I want to do the weapons later on, I HAVE to sit on the weapons in my bank slots just so I don't have to go through the pain of finding them again. Especially with the poor Guild Store / Auction House scaled-down equivalent.

[Sylthia]

One thing that bugs me about the choices when you decide the fate of bad guys is that it's always a choice between letting them get off with saying sorry and executing them. Why can't we have a middle ground where we throw them in jail or something? I think that's only been an option for me once.

[Calemyr]

One thing that bugs me about the choices when you decide the fate of bad guys is that it's always a choice between letting them get off with saying sorry and executing them. Why can't we have a middle ground where we throw them in jail or something? I think that's only been an option for me once.

Plot-wise, that's really not a choice. Unless there's a jail break or you get sent to that jail, there's no functional difference between executing a criminal or imprisoning one - either way, they're out of the world with no part to play. If they were going to cut something for time, I'd think duplicate conclusions would be first to the block.

By the way, becoming a werewolf is a real pain in the rump.

[Sylthia]

Plot-wise, that's really not a choice. Unless there's a jail break or you get sent to that jail, there's no functional difference between executing a criminal or imprisoning one - either way, they're out of the world with no part to play. If they were going to cut something for time, I'd think duplicate conclusions would be first to the block.

By the way, becoming a werewolf is a real pain in the rump.

It may not be the different gameplay-wise, but in terms of role playing, it makes a huge difference. My character lets pretty much everybody go, because she has a code about not killing unless she has to. It would be nice to have the option.

[Otomodachi]

So, here's a question which will determine whether I play this game or not: Is it an MMO, or is it a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game?

Just... cuz it doesn't seem like anyone's presented the opinion yet... this game is just every other MMO. Most of my time was logged in EVE and DAoC, previously, for reference. ES fan since Daggerfall.

It's JUST like every other MMO. You run around to all the quest markers on your compass, go click on 10 whatevers you have to do for that quest, and then go turn it in. There is some value to be had in exploring; skyshard hunting is fun. There are some random locations out there on the map that're kinda cool to find.

Let me put it this way, though- you're going to spawn in a jail cell. You step out of that cell after being told you've got to help save the world... and there is an endless stream of other characters flowing past you, ahead of you, doing the exact same quest. Occasionally, you'll get tasked to do something that involves going into a private instance, a dungeon just for you. This is both awesome in that for once there aren't, let's say realistically, 2 or 3 groups of 4 running around killing everything near you... and also bad in that the group you finally got together is now busted up if you weren't expecting this.

Most of what you pick up is worthless to vendors. You can only access what *I* consider profitable store functions by joining a guild and selling to other players, auction house style. But there is no global auction house. In my experience, you can get by selling stuff to vendors, especially whatever crafting materials you don't use; sanded boards were my money-ticket as a rule, as well as processed fibers. It's... dull. Managing your inventory takes a lot of time and is dull.

There's a good game in there, other people can address is better. It's not my intent to make anyone feel bad for liking a game that I disliked, hahahah, but these're some of the big reasons that made it so especially MMO-y to me; for me, it was WAY on that end of the spectrum.

[sihnfahl]

It's JUST like every other MMO. You run around to all the quest markers on your compass, go click on 10 whatevers you have to do for that quest, and then go turn it in. There is some value to be had in exploring; skyshard hunting is fun. There are some random locations out there on the map that're kinda cool to find.
And lorebooks. They're in turns hilarious and head scratching. Like one that is a 'learned treatise' on the Argonian Maid series and how they're derivative of earlier works.


Most of what you pick up is worthless to vendors.
But very useful to other players who are intent on deconstructing them for mats and crafting XP. (I'm almost level 30 blacksmithing).


But there is no global auction house.
For now. They best fix the Guild Store thanks to its clunky, unfriendly interface.


One thing that bugs me about the choices when you decide the fate of bad guys is that it's always a choice between letting them get off with saying sorry and executing them. Why can't we have a middle ground where we throw them in jail or something? I think that's only been an option for me once.
There are a few quests in the Covenant where you can throw them in jail, but those are only for the ones in town, where the army or local law enforcement is right on your heels and ready to clean up the mess.

In the wild, though, yeah. You really don't get the option of tossing them into jail. It's either let them go or kill them.

[mistformsquirrl]

Hello everyone! I just bought this game today, and am currently downloading it right now. That said, I uhm, I admit I'm finding myself a twinge uncertain as to what to create for my first character. Race-wise I'm leaning toward a Bosmer (just because I like wood elves); but in terms of class? I have no idea.

I have a few different ideas for characters, all of which are variations on a warrior-y type character... I'm just not sure how to make them work (or indeed, if they are possible).

Here's what I'm kinda thinking, using my rather limited knowledge of the game:

Straight up warrior - nothing fancy, just good old sword-to-the-face action. - Am I right in assuming the Dragon Knight would be the best choice for this? How overtly flashy is that class anyway? (I've seen a few videos of them leaping around with dragon wings, but if there other abilities are less blatant, they might still work.)

A dark knight type character - someone who dabbles in black magicks to bolster their fighting abilities, or perhaps draining enemies via magic. Maybe even summoning stuff. Am thinking Sorcerer or Nightshade for this, is that reasonable?

Or conversely, a paladin sort - big two-handed weapons and lots of healing and 'holy'-esque powers... which suggests the Templar; though as near as I can recall Elder Scrolls games usually don't have straight up holy magic, so I could be misunderstanding the Templar concept a bit there.

So yeah, this is just me tossing around ideas while I have absolutely no practical experience with the game; for all I know absolutely none of these is feasible, or maybe they all are, or maybe somewhere in between. >.< Any suggestions?

[Animastryfe]

You are right in that all of those choices can work, and can work well. However, they are not the only choices. In this game, the only differences class makes are the three class-specific skill lines. Each class can use the same gear, and can use all of the weapon and armour skill lines. Any class can just use weapon-specific skills to be a straight up warrior; if you want that playstyle, then look for a class that has "low magic" skills that can supplement your playstyle. You probably would not want to summon Daedra for that character, so one of the Sorcerer skill lines is useless to you.

For the dark knight character, Sorcerer and Nightblade can fit that theme very well. A Dragon Knight uses skills that aesthetically and thematically are dragon or flame based; if you are fine with that, then a Dragon Knight can do so as well. Dragon Knights have many personal and group buff spells, and have many damage over time abilities.

With my current Dragon Knight, about half of my skills are class-specific skills. I have seen builds that use fewer than five class skills.

[sihnfahl]

Am I right in assuming the Dragon Knight would be the best choice for this? How overtly flashy is that class anyway? (I've seen a few videos of them leaping around with dragon wings, but if there other abilities are less blatant, they might still work.)

Both Templar and DK are good for sword in-your-face action. Both are very flashy, though (nature of the classes). Yellow light primarily for Templar, fire for DKs.

The dragon wings, BTW, are the DK Draconic Power Ultimate. Due to slow charging, it's not one of those frequent use abilities.

Speaking as a DP DK, folks -know- when I'm on the battlefield. Whenever I'm in a group, they see the rush of air, then the fire nova. Or the talons that jump up from the ground and grab them. Or when I fade out and you see a shadowy figure with a large, beating heart.

If you want subtle, choose weapon skill lines, and not class active skills if you go DK or Templar. You really don't see much when those go off.

NB is just subtle, period. Except for when you use Teleport Strike.

[Otomodachi]

@sihnfahl Oh, the lorebooks! Yes, those're also very rewarding to find! Also, RE: Selling stuff to players... I had a problem with basic chat functionality TBH. No trade channel, can't make private channels, like in EVE (dunno how standard that approach is)... Not saying you CAN'T make a good living selling drops to players, just that I felt like I was going to have to work-around ANOTHER thing that wasn't how I expected it and I gave up. :) The fact that the guild store's cut from sales seems to go into an oblivion instead of to my guild leader irked me, too, but meh.

@mistformsquirrl I have to say that Nightblade, as long as you think through your class-specific skill choices a bit, has a lot of potential for a warrior that doesn't APPEAR to use magic. :)

[sihnfahl]

@sihnfahl Oh, the lorebooks! Yes, those're also very rewarding to find!
Except for the odd time when the client causes them to appear underneath another object and you have to refresh your location in order to get it to spawn right... :smallsigh:

I'm working my way through the Cyrodiil dungeons, skyshards and lorebooks ATM, which is probably the best bet for small-scale PvP, since those locations aren't on straightlines between keeps and towers, where you get the floods of incoming.

You have to go out of your way to get to most of them, which means you'll end up hitting a loner or two.

Worth the exploration, though! And you even have repeatable quest hubs there.

[mistformsquirrl]

Thanks all! I'll have to do some experimenting to figure out exactly what I want I think!

[sihnfahl]

Thanks all! I'll have to do some experimenting to figure out exactly what I want I think!
Also keep in mind that if you want to be a vampire or werewolf, you may want to look at Dunmer / Argonian respectively.

Vampires take extra fire damage, and werewolves take extra poison damage.

Fire is nasty because a lot of spellcaster mobs spam fire attacks. Not to mention, as you saw, there are two classes that make their skill lines HEAVY into fire. And in PvP? Fire ballistae and oil pots are big.

And poison is just nasty overall.

[Calemyr]

Also keep in mind that if you want to be a vampire or werewolf, you may want to look at Dunmer / Argonian respectively.

Vampires take extra fire damage, and werewolves take extra poison damage.

Fire is nasty because a lot of spellcaster mobs spam fire attacks. Not to mention, as you saw, there are two classes that make their skill lines HEAVY into fire. And in PvP? Fire ballistae and oil pots are big.

And poison is just nasty overall.

You also may want to just give werewolf and vampire a miss in general, because good grief is it irritating to get. Only available two ways:

1) If you get hit by (you don't have to kill it) a rare mob that only spawns in level 40+ zones and only might appear at night. The spawn points are permanently camped and some absolute jackasses claim their intention to kill it the second it spawns (which you can't do anything about, no in-faction pvp). (On the Dominion side on the US megaserver, there have been no reports of either one spawning in the Reaper's March zone since last Monday.)

2) Have an already established werewolf/vampire bite you. They have to have already maxed out their tree, purchased the ability, and it has a 7-day cooldown. As a result, bites are generally for sale in the 15k-25k range.

Trying to become a werewolf is the most mind-numbingly tedious part of any MMO I've ever played, and I played SWTOR.

[AdmiralCheez]

You also may want to just give werewolf and vampire a miss in general, because good grief is it irritating to get. Only available two ways:

1) If you get hit by (you don't have to kill it) a rare mob that only spawns in level 40+ zones and only might appear at night. The spawn points are permanently camped and some absolute jackasses claim their intention to kill it the second it spawns (which you can't do anything about, no in-faction pvp). (On the Dominion side on the US megaserver, there have been no reports of either one spawning in the Reaper's March zone since last Monday.)

2) Have an already established werewolf/vampire bite you. They have to have already maxed out their tree, purchased the ability, and it has a 7-day cooldown. As a result, bites are generally for sale in the 15k-25k range.

Trying to become a werewolf is the most mind-numbingly tedious part of any MMO I've ever played, and I played SWTOR.

Still sounds easier to get than a jedi in Star Wars Galaxies, before they overhauled it. Can't quite remember all the details, but it involved grinding to completion around four different professions (there were dozens of them in game), but the ones you needed to do were randomly chosen at character generation, and never shared with you. You could run into holocrons that would give you clues, but it would never tell you everything, so most people ended up grinding ALL of the professions to unlock their Jedi character slot. I never made it that far, and then the overhaul came and just gave everyone the ability to play jedi right from the start.

[mistformsquirrl]

Yeah, I'm not going to do a Vampire or Werewolf anytime soon - maybe someday down the line, but right now I'm focused on just sort of getting off the ground with a main character. That said, I'm glad the option exists, even if it's a pain in the neck (no pun intended) to get.

[Sylthia]

They really need to instance some of these dungeons, or at least make multiple channels for them or something. It's very annoying when there's a dozen people, about half of them probably bots, just camping the end boss.

[Calemyr]

They really need to instance some of these dungeons, or at least make multiple channels for them or something. It's very annoying when there's a dozen people, about half of them probably bots, just camping the end boss.

On the plus side it makes it easier to tell where the boss is going to spawn, and you only have to tag it to get credit. Still frustrating.

[Sylthia]

On the plus side it makes it easier to tell where the boss is going to spawn, and you only have to tag it to get credit. Still frustrating.

I'm not sure how they determine if you get loot or not. I think I got credit for the kill, but wasn't able to loot anything.

[Calemyr]

I'm not sure how they determine if you get loot or not. I think I got credit for the kill, but wasn't able to loot anything.

You don't always get loot, even from dungeon bosses. If you do, its often of higher than normal quality.

[Otomodachi]

Also keep in mind that if you want to be a vampire or werewolf, you may want to look at Dunmer / Argonian respectively.

Vampires take extra fire damage, and werewolves take extra poison damage.

Fire is nasty because a lot of spellcaster mobs spam fire attacks. Not to mention, as you saw, there are two classes that make their skill lines HEAVY into fire. And in PvP? Fire ballistae and oil pots are big.

And poison is just nasty overall.

Also worth doing some research into what you'll actually get, as it seems that there's a significant number of vamp and werewolf skills that aren't working as intended yet.

[sihnfahl]

Also worth doing some research into what you'll actually get, as it seems that there's a significant number of vamp and werewolf skills that aren't working as intended yet.
That's true of a number of skills as well...

[DigoDragon]

My wife wanted to move the game to a different computer, but looks like she found a bug where the uninstaller doesn't actually uninstall the game. Or maybe that's a feature? :3

The game seems interesting, but I can't afford a subscription fee to keep playing.

[sihnfahl]

The game seems interesting, but I can't afford a subscription fee to keep playing.
Eh, they may drop that for a short bit as a promotional due to the negatives that have been hitting review sites.

They did an early-morning patch to address item and gold duping. Which had been reported in beta. Which they should have addressed prior to release.

[Calemyr]

Eh, they may drop that for a short bit as a promotional due to the negatives that have been hitting review sites.

They did an early-morning patch to address item and gold duping. Which had been reported in beta. Which they should have addressed prior to release.

They always patch it during the hour I have between waking up and going to work. It wouldn't bother me, except for the whole research timer thing. I lose a lot of time with unused research points because of it.

[Sylthia]

Going from Auridon to Grahtwood really kicked my butt, and I'm not underleveled, considering I completed every possible quest in Auridon. Maybe it's the first quest hub, but I really hate having to have 3+ mobs in every pack kill me before I can move 5 feet. Stupid pirates.

[mistformsquirrl]

So far I'm still fiddling with what kind of character I want to play. It's weird - everything is fun, but because of that anytime I get even slightly disasstisfied with what I'm playing, I find an excuse to roll another character.

So far here's what I've got (Not including multiple deletions/rerolls >.<)

Two-Hand/Heavy Armor Dragonknight, emphasis on the two-hand with relatively few DK powers. Basically a standard warrior with one fire based attack and a ranged knockdown. Level 8 at present. I love the idea of it, but I keep worrying I'm spending too many skill points on things I won't use at higher levels simply to get by until other skills unlock. Probably worrying too much, but we'll see.

One-Hand-and-Shield/Heavy Armor Sorcerer, kind of a mixed bag with magic, pets and weapon skills. I'm considering dropping the pet for something else down the line though. I like the idea of having a summon at my side while fighting in melee, but the pet AI seems really, really poor, as a lot of the time my Clannfear just sits off to the side doing nothing. Maybe that'll change down the line though. Level 9 currently.

Bow/Medium Armor focused Nightblade, trying for a classic archer feel. On the one hand: Bow is kind of difficult to get used to compared to the other weapons I've used to this point, and not using the Siphon capabilities from Nightblade makes things a bit tricky in places. On the other hand, I can see some great potential later on for causing long range havoc. It's mostly just a question of getting there. Level 7 at present.

Two-Hand/Heavy Armor Templar, with kind of a mix of powers and weapon skills. Essentially trying to emulate a Paladin, and it works pretty darn well overall. The only real problem with this character is, I feel like I need to reroll her to give her a different look, as the one I chose feels better on a more straightforward warrior rather than a paladin. Still, fun stuff. Level 8 currently.

Destruction Staff/Light Armor Dragon Knight - this one is an experiment to see if I can make a Pyromancer using a combination of destruction staff and Dragon Knight skills. I haven't gotten far yet, but I think it looks promising, especially since I chose Dark Elf for my race. I'd be playing her right now but I'm getting *huge* lag at present, and the game is essentially unplayable for me right now. Still, I'm hoping this works out because it could be a really cool build I think. Also I like fire, and this set up seems to be the most fire-friendly build one can make <,< BURN ALL THE THINGS. Level 5 at present.

------

All told, I still haven't settled on a main. I think I'm a bit gunshy when it comes to spending skillpoints on abilities that I won't use at higher levels... it just feels like a waste, but at the same point it feels like a waste to have a mostly-empty tray too, or to not upgrade skills when I can. >.< So I dunno.

I'm also still kicking around the idea of a Siphoning focused Nightblade, with a greatsword or something similar. I tried it right off the bat and I was too new to the game to even figure out what I was doing then - I think now I could make it work.

[sihnfahl]

Two-Hand/Heavy Armor Dragonknight, emphasis on the two-hand with relatively few DK powers. Basically a standard warrior with one fire based attack and a ranged knockdown. Level 8 at present. I love the idea of it, but I keep worrying I'm spending too many skill points on things I won't use at higher levels simply to get by until other skills unlock. Probably worrying too much, but we'll see.
Thanks to morphing, dual bars and such, there's not a skill I chose at lower level I haven't NOT used as Veteran 1 + 2 (level 50). The skills stay useful, even in high level encounters, have no fear. It's just choosing the right ones to use at the time and for what you have.

For example, during a long run, I swap between DK skills and sword and board skills. Why? Situation. Also, you can rotate easily. Hit one mob DK skills, and while magicka is regenerating, you use the stamina-based skills. Swap back to regen stam and use magicka. No pause. And either way (with self-crafted 1H swords that do 120 dam apiece), mobs go down just as fast while I keep my survivability.

Also good for PvP. I've taken down many a self-assured 'I can spam these attacks and WIN' folks. Problem? They expend all their stam and magicka, while I just flipped back and forth letting them waste. I end up with a 50% bar in both, to their 0%. Trounce time.


the pet AI seems really, really poor, as a lot of the time my Clannfear just sits off to the side doing nothing.
Should have warned you about that. Summoning sorcs are pretty ... well, shafted. The companion AI tends to have it just sitting by the side most of the time. It doesn't even react to you being in combat until it gets hit by something.


I can see some great potential later on for causing long range havoc. It's mostly just a question of getting there. Level 7 at present.
Dual bar again. Bow for those ranged fights (like standing on a keep in PvP or out of a boss' AOE range while the tank keeps the boss locked in place). Melee for the sneak + control. Nothing like a khajiit with plenty of +crit sneaking in...


I think I'm a bit gunshy when it comes to spending skillpoints on abilities that I won't use at higher levels.
If you plan right, no such thing, as I said.

[mistformsquirrl]

That's good to hear. <._.> I *think* I may have finally found a character I can stick with, though we'll see how it goes as I gain levels.

She's a Two-Hand*/Heavy Armor Nightblade focused on Draining and Shadow powers. So far it's quite a lot of fun, and I think if I play it right I might be able to make it into the Dark Knight style character I wanted. We'll just have to see how it goes.

[Sylthia]

You can also reset your skill points later if you really feel like you need to without having to reroll.

[mistformsquirrl]

Oh, I didn't even realize you could do that in this game <@.@> cool. Now I'll be a lot less reluctant I think.

[Sylthia]

Oh, I didn't even realize you could do that in this game <@.@> cool. Now I'll be a lot less reluctant I think.

There's very few skills I regret taking. The only one I really want to change is the hireling skill. Having what amounts to an extra node once every 24 hours (and they don't even build up if you're offline for a few days) seems very underwhelming for a skill point.

[sihnfahl]

Oh, I didn't even realize you could do that in this game <@.@> cool. Now I'll be a lot less reluctant I think.
To do it, you go to a Shrine in a major city (level 20+). Pay the gold fee and your skill points are reset (but not the skill line XP).


The only one I really want to change is the hireling skill.
I don't mind the blacksmithing one because I've gotten a fair share of enhancement mats (including a few golds) in the mail from them.

It's the cooking one that really needs work. Come on. I can open a crate in town and get more.

[bluntpencil]

I'm having trouble installing ESO, probably due to our apartment block's stupid security system that requires a password every few hours, so I get a 'corrupt data' message in the downloader.

Pretty bummed.

[Sylthia]

Are there any skills to make opening chests easier or is it all "skill" based? I can do most okay, but I came across a Master chest and had to give up after 5 tries.

[Calemyr]

Are there any skills to make opening chests easier or is it all "skill" based? I can do most okay, but I came across a Master chest and had to give up after 5 tries.

I believe it's level based. If you go into a zone much higher level than you, the chests will register as "impossible". If you go to a zone much lower level than you, the chests will register as "simple".

[Avilan the Grey]

...As a big Oblivion / Skyrim / Fallout fan I actually looked into this game and I have drawn the conclusion that it has some serious problems, the main of course that it is an MMO period... All the reviews I have seen basically makes it clear to me that it's too much MMO, too little TES.

Apart from the general problem it is also graphically Bimbofied to a high degree, with irritating changes like elves looking sexier, Frost Atronachs looking completely different than in Skyrim etc etc. Admittedly this game is not designed by Bethesda, but it still annoys me a lot.

In short it seems like I am better off waiting for TESVI / FO4.

(I am still mildly curious about the Shadowrun MMO, but then mostly because it is Shadowrun, and Shadowrun is AWESOME).

[TamerBill]

Frost Atronachs looking completely different than in Skyrim etc etc.

That one's not really a fair criticism. The elemental daedra often look completely different from game to game. Morrowind frost atronachs (http://images.uesp.net/1/15/MW-creature-Frost_Atronach.jpg) would never be mistaken for Skyrim frost atronachs (http://images.uesp.net/1/1f/SR-creature-Frost_Atronach.jpg) either.

[Sylthia]

I like the game, but one gripe I have is that it's not as open world as it would lead you to believe. I wouldn't exactly say linear, but you pretty much have to do all the quests in one zone before moving onto the next.

I got the achievement for completing Auridon, but when I moved onto Grahtwood, I was getting slaughtered by groups of three mobs a couple levels above me.

I'm not sure if all zones are like this, but I wish there was a way to stay ahead of the curve without insane grinding, especially since killing mobs gives infinitesimal XP compared to quests.

[Avilan the Grey]

That one's not really a fair criticism. The elemental daedra often look completely different from game to game. Morrowind frost atronachs (http://images.uesp.net/1/15/MW-creature-Frost_Atronach.jpg) would never be mistaken for Skyrim frost atronachs (http://images.uesp.net/1/1f/SR-creature-Frost_Atronach.jpg) either.

Well the Skyrim one is the best looking by far.

[Sylthia]

If you dislike MMOs to that degree, how would a Shadowrun MMO be any better?

[Calemyr]

...As a big Oblivion / Skyrim / Fallout fan I actually looked into this game and I have drawn the conclusion that it has some serious problems, the main of course that it is an MMO period... All the reviews I have seen basically makes it clear to me that it's too much MMO, too little TES.

Apart from the general problem it is also graphically Bimbofied to a high degree, with irritating changes like elves looking sexier, Frost Atronachs looking completely different than in Skyrim etc etc. Admittedly this game is not designed by Bethesda, but it still annoys me a lot.

In short it seems like I am better off waiting for TESVI / FO4.

(I am still mildly curious about the Shadowrun MMO, but then mostly because it is Shadowrun, and Shadowrun is AWESOME).

While I respect your opinion, I can't really agree with it. I've never seen an MMO better written. Most of the quests in a zone are strung together surprisingly well, with interactions between the quests being acknowledged and a lot of side details being considered. For instance, having become a werewolf myself, I was given the chance to console a newly turned werewolf, claiming that if I could master the curse then so could she. Such a small line, but it was really nice to see my own choices being acknowledged. The Daedric princes are (of the ones I've seen so far) better done than I've ever seen them. Sheogorath in particular gets a lot of screen time and enjoys every minute of it. And there are lots of little things that are really cool, like seeing a dunmer Ordinator in the service of Almalexia - back when Almalexia was a benevolent goddess and not a paranoid basketcase.

[Avilan the Grey]

My problem is not the writing, but the gameplay and the usual trappings (the whole idea that quests never get solved, and names having to be unique etc etc).

[Calemyr]

My problem is not the writing, but the gameplay and the usual trappings (the whole idea that quests never get solved, and names having to be unique etc etc).

I should point out that quests do get solved. For you, at least.

For instance, I previously posted an example about some displaced elves and the stone creatures who were killing them to protect the forest. The fortress this takes place around is crawling with hostile stone men throughout the quest. To complete the quest, you have to pick a side. Pick the elves and the stone men shut down and the elves are living peacefully in fortress. Pick the stone men, and they simply return to work and completely ignore you. Either way, the quest is "solved" and the hostiles neutralized. There are several quests where creatures that are hostile to you in the beginning become neutral to you upon completion, and quest givers that move on or die remain that way as far as you're concerned.

There's also a fair bit of Skyrim-like commentary, where guards and villagers will remark on your completed quests: for instance, town criers declaring a curfew due to strange disappearances in a nearby town will instead inform everyone that the curfew is lifted and the problem is solved. This is quite cool, but it does raise similar problems to Skyrim, where characters tend to focus on high-profile achievements. Everyone in the Dominion seems to want to know what the Aldmeri ancestors thought of Queen Ayrenn. No arrow-in-the-knee jokes yet, for which I'm grateful.

Also: This game has M'aiq the Liar. Thus it's an Elder Scrolls game. QED. You can't argue with my logic.

[Sylthia]

I should point out that quests do get solved. For you, at least.

For instance, I previously posted an example about some displaced elves and the stone creatures who were killing them to protect the forest. The fortress this takes place around is crawling with hostile stone men throughout the quest. To complete the quest, you have to pick a side. Pick the elves and the stone men shut down and the elves are living peacefully in fortress. Pick the stone men, and they simply return to work and completely ignore you. Either way, the quest is "solved" and the hostiles neutralized. There are several quests where creatures that are hostile to you in the beginning become neutral to you upon completion, and quest givers that move on or die remain that way as far as you're concerned.

There's also a fair bit of Skyrim-like commentary, where guards and villagers will remark on your completed quests: for instance, town criers declaring a curfew due to strange disappearances in a nearby town will instead inform everyone that the curfew is lifted and the problem is solved. This is quite cool, but it does raise similar problems to Skyrim, where characters tend to focus on high-profile achievements. Everyone in the Dominion seems to want to know what the Aldmeri ancestors thought of Queen Ayrenn. No arrow-in-the-knee jokes yet, for which I'm grateful.

Also: This game has M'aiq the Liar. Thus it's an Elder Scrolls game. QED. You can't argue with my logic.

I had a quest were I delivered some Skooma to some ship's quartermaster. I feel like a should make a character named Heisenberg and start my own drug empire.

[sihnfahl]

I was getting slaughtered by groups of three mobs a couple levels above me.
No, most of the zones are tuned pretty well.

I think the Auridon->Grahtwood difficulty escalation needs to be tuned a bit, I agree.

Veteran 2 and I was pulling out all the tricks...

Maybe while I was busy leveling up my blacksmithing, the mobs were training.

[Animastryfe]

I like the game, but one gripe I have is that it's not as open world as it would lead you to believe. I wouldn't exactly say linear, but you pretty much have to do all the quests in one zone before moving onto the next.

I got the achievement for completing Auridon, but when I moved onto Grahtwood, I was getting slaughtered by groups of three mobs a couple levels above me.

I'm not sure if all zones are like this, but I wish there was a way to stay ahead of the curve without insane grinding, especially since killing mobs gives infinitesimal XP compared to quests.

I am in the Ebonheart Pact. Doing nearly every quest in each zone, and doing all of the public dungeons and such, generally gets me to about one level above the minimum intended level of the next zone.

[mistformsquirrl]

Well, I finally settled on a main; that sure took awhile; but I think it was worth it to experiment and figure out what I really wanted to do.

So, I'm a Wood-Elf Nightblade using a greatsword and medium armor, sounds like I'd be going for a fairly straightforward backstabber type right? Except I'm not >_> I'm actually mostly focused on Greatsword abilities and I'm planning to use a couple of the self-buffs from the Assassination line once I get high enough skill to use them.

I'm only level 10 thus far, but it seems to be working out fairly well, and I can only imagine it will improve significantly as I get the self buffs and possibly debuff that I'm after. (haste, blur and mark target) I think it should make for a pretty cool master swordswoman type build - I may even invest in the stealth abilities eventually, purely for PVP; but we'll see about that - I'm a twinge iffy on participating in PVP.

----

I do have one serious annoyance in regards to this game though. I doubt it'll ever change, I'm sure most people like it just fine, heck I'm about 90% sure that for saying this I'll get some heat - but I really, really wish I had the option to make non-dungeon indoor areas instanced for just me. It's one of the things I loved about City of Heroes. I know a lot of people hate instancing, but I love it, and I wish I at least had the option. (The phasing helps some, but, especially this close to launch, there are a lot of people in the low level areas and so you're going to often wind up on the same step as at least one other person frequently, much to my dismay.) I know it's an MMO**, but other people are the part of MMOs I don't like <x_x> Yes I know that's strange.

-----

That said, I'm having fun other than that one aspect. The wide variety of armor styles is *wonderful* - I really, really wish more games would do armor this way. So many MMOs do armor wrong imo - either it's terribly ugly, stupidly ornate (or both), or way oversexualized on female characters, or in a couple games I could mention, just looks kinda like a potato sack on everyone... I could go on and on and on. I particularly like that we have cultural armor styles, but that you can learn to create and wear armors from other cultures. I think that's pretty much a perfect implementation. I'd love to see armor dyes down the line of course, and maybe the ability to use earlier armor graphics on higher end armor if you don't like a particular version of an armor but liked an older version. Still, the concept is really good.

Likewise, I adore the weapon diversity. Sure there's even more weapons I'd love to see show up eventually*** - but a lot of games these days seem to be taking a "One weapon per class" approach, or otherwise greatly paring down how many different types of weapon there are (to save time and money designing them and animating them I'm sure), and I hate that when there isn't a really good reason for it. ESO gives me a nice variety to work with and individual fighting styles for broad categories, which is pretty awesome. (Minor nitpick is that I don't like the "thrust with a mace/axe" animation a couple skills use; but I'm glad we at least have maces and axes, so I'll deal with it. ... though I wouldn't complain if they added a different animation for those weapons. I'm just saying, ya know... hint hint.)

That, combined with the classes being more a matter of "choose your superpowers" rather than very narrow definitions of what you can do... yeah I like this. I do wish I had more character slots though; since I have way, way too many character ideas at this point. I suppose I should focus on one for now though >.<; Oh yeah, and the whole quests having choices in them thing is great. So very few MMOs even pay lip service to choices, so that's a wonderful thing too.

---

Oh - come to think of it though, I did have one question to ask:

Does anyone know if they'll eventually add weapon skill based Ultimates to the game? I'm really not exactly happy with my options on that front at present. I'm trying to go for a sort of low-magic master swordswoman build, but every ultimate relies on something overtly magical it seems. Assassination gives you a big glowing red claw - and the animation itself is doofy too imo. Shadow's sounds even more absurd for this kind of character, ditto Soul Shred. Soul Strike from the Soul Magic pool is in the same boat as well, and the Mage's guild Ultimate is too, though neither of those is at all surprising, and being as I have no desire to be a Werewolf or Vampire, those are out whether they look appropriate or not. Disappointingly, the Fighter's Guild ability doesn't seem a lot better in that regard either, though it's probably the best option out of all of them that I can see.

Silly as it may sound, I kind of wish I could trade my Ultimate slot for a normal skill. For right now I'm using the Assassination ability, but I don't use it very often due to the animation. (Sadly, for this character set up, none of the other classes feel like they'd have worked any better either; so I'm not just picking on the Nightblade here.)

----

Anyway, I'll shaddup, need to get some food and then get back to playing. Despite the occassional complaints, I really do like this game quite a lot - especially since I originally was planning to skip it due to a bad beta weekend experience. (I only bought it due to intense boredom... glad I did though!)



*Least annoying - I'm used to it from other MMOs, even though I still think it's ridiculous. I can deal with ridiculous though.

**Inevitably someone will ask me at this point "Why play MMOs at all then? Couldn't you just stick with Skyrim?" It's a valid question, and the answer is quite long. The short version could best be summed up as: I like most things about MMOs except the people, and single player RPGs frequently disappoint me in ways that MMOs don't. (It's more complex than that, but this is the short version.)

***Then again - they can always add them down the road; so I'm not going to get too worked up about certain types of weapon not being available yet. (I'd love one and two handed polearms, fist weapons of some variety, and chain weapons like flails, just to name a few.)

[D_Man_7733]

Seriously considering getting the game at some point down the track, when my internet allows me to. But what's the price on it? Does the $60 get you a month of gameplay as well, or do you have to pay for the month on top of that?

[Sylthia]

Seriously considering getting the game at some point down the track, when my internet allows me to. But what's the price on it? Does the $60 get you a month of gameplay as well, or do you have to pay for the month on top of that?

$60 gets you one month.

[D_Man_7733]

$60 gets you one month.

Thanks, the biggest problem I had justifying getting it was the $60 price to buy in to the game, but if it get's me the first month along with it then I won't feel quite as stupid about wasting the first month downloading the game (Hooray for terribad internet). Also because if I play it enough in the month then I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get a sufficient way through to justify whether or not to keep up the subscription.

[Sylthia]

Cool, feel free to add me @Rezkeshdadesh. Just put GITP or something in the request if you like.

[Animastryfe]

I do have one serious annoyance in regards to this game though. I doubt it'll ever change, I'm sure most people like it just fine, heck I'm about 90% sure that for saying this I'll get some heat - but I really, really wish I had the option to make non-dungeon indoor areas instanced for just me. It's one of the things I loved about City of Heroes. I know a lot of people hate instancing, but I love it, and I wish I at least had the option. (The phasing helps some, but, especially this close to launch, there are a lot of people in the low level areas and so you're going to often wind up on the same step as at least one other person frequently, much to my dismay.) I know it's an MMO**, but other people are the part of MMOs I don't like <x_x> Yes I know that's strange.



The lack of instancing in some areas can be immersion killing. Since launch, bots commonly camp the bosses in public dungeons, but Zenimax is doing something about that. I like that player characters and NPCs look alike, which is very good for immersion.

Note that many Nightblade skills are currently bugged (http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/compilation-of-bugged-nightblade-abilities/). Hopefully this will be fixed quickly.

This site (http://eso-fashion.com/) is attempting to have pictures of all the different armour and weapons.

[mistformsquirrl]

That is saddening <;_;> Hopefully they'll fix the NB abilities soon. At least the ones I'm using thus far aren't the ones that are bugged.

Also yeah, the bots are (one of many) things that are driving me a twinge nuts. I very rarely bother trying with the public dungeons after my first couple forays - there's some fun to be had there I'm sure, but between the bots and the hordes of other players just trying to do the same thing I am... I am unhappy with those bits especially.

---

On the upside though, I discovered an incredibly awesome thing. Well I didn't 'discover' it by any stretch, and I'm sure many other veteran DAOC players noticed this too but... if you play a Nord Sorcerer in Heavy Armor, wield a hammer (with shield or two handed, either way), and use the Storm Calling line, you've effectively replicated a Dark Age of Camelot Thane*. It is amazeballs >_< I may play that character while I wait for them to fix my NB abilities even. The only thing I'm at all uncertain of is which Ultimate to pick there; Overload sounds like it makes good sense, but from what I'm reading other places, rather than charge up your weapon, it puts it away and causes you to just go full energy bolt tossing mode for a bit.

I mean that's fine, it's not really out of character for a Thane or anything. On the other hand there's Storm Atronach, which while on a completely different path, sounds like a pretty darn cool ability too... Granted summoning a lightning creature is more out of character... but it sounds pretty spiffy. Either way it'll be fine though.

*For those who never played DAOC - a Thane in that game is a warrior devoted to Thor, they generally wield hammers and call down lightning on their enemies. I never got one to a high level, where I heard they didn't fair so well, but the concept was so outstanding that as soon as I realized the potential in ESO, I had to make one.

[Sylthia]

I guess Guild Banks have been taken down. Not sure what happened to the stuff that was in there.

[Avilan the Grey]

In theory I hate Free To Play, but in practice even if I got this game I couldn't motivate a subscription fee. I wouldn't be able to play it enough to make it "worth" it, and brutally honestly I cannot afford another subscription, especially not a whopping $15 a month. I already pay for Spotify each month and quite frankly music is much more important than games.

So, if this was FTP I would try it, just because of my love of TES.

ANd I agree with the above, other people ruin MMO's for me. :smallbiggrin:

Edit:
I don't want to be full of Doom and Gloom, but I think I agree with those who have anaylzed this game and concluded that it won't survive as a subscription model simply because the core audience, those who love Bethesda games, probably won't like this game (it is not similar enough, or to put it another way it is too similar to other MMO's) to hold their interest, and even if they cough up the absurdly high cost of $60 they won't play for that long. And the other "core" audience, MMO-players, are either subsrcibing to WOW already, or are used to FTP.

[sihnfahl]

I guess Guild Banks have been taken down. Not sure what happened to the stuff that was in there.
Probably what happened the last time they took it down. Items in limbo until they figure out what was duped and what wasn't.

[Calemyr]

In theory I hate Free To Play, but in practice even if I got this game I couldn't motivate a subscription fee. I wouldn't be able to play it enough to make it "worth" it, and brutally honestly I cannot afford another subscription, especially not a whopping $15 a month. I already pay for Spotify each month and quite frankly music is much more important than games.

So, if this was FTP I would try it, just because of my love of TES.

ANd I agree with the above, other people ruin MMO's for me. :smallbiggrin:

Edit:
I don't want to be full of Doom and Gloom, but I think I agree with those who have anaylzed this game and concluded that it won't survive as a subscription model simply because the core audience, those who love Bethesda games, probably won't like this game (it is not similar enough, or to put it another way it is too similar to other MMO's) to hold their interest, and even if they cough up the absurdly high cost of $60 they won't play for that long. And the other "core" audience, MMO-players, are either subsrcibing to WOW already, or are used to FTP.

I hope you're wrong. This game does too many inventive things to the MMO formula that I really want to see become standard. Classes in ESO are a small subset (maybe not even a quarter) of your character and holds no sway over what kinds of weapons and armors you can use. When you craft your own armor you can control its appearance and maintain a largely consistent appearance. The story does a superb job of mixing the personal and the epic (especially the Dominion, having the queen treat you as a close friend and personal confidant really made me feel like I was playing a character in the story rather than an extra in the big fight scenes).

Even if the quality of the game doesn't take a huge swan dive upon going to FTP, the merits of their best ideas will be lost on those trying to make the next MMO. I desperately want MMO games to be a lot more like ESO than WoW. If ESO goes FTP, it'll never happen and all that brilliance will be lost.

[Animastryfe]

I really like the quests, how the quests in a zone weave together a larger story, and how the world changes after I complete certain quests.

Mistformsquirrl, you will have enough skill points to try out all of the ultimates. My character is level 33 or so, and at around the late 20s I found there to be a lull in the skill point distribution where there were no active abilities available that I were interested in, and where I could catch up on crafting skills and other passive abilities.

[mistformsquirrl]

I don't think going F2P automatically means ideas from it wouldn't be incorporated into later games. Way, way too many people assume "Went F2P" = "Failure" somehow. Going F2P is, frankly, stupidly profitable because the publisher can essentially double-dip on the same product.*

In my experience with various MMO dev teams, a lot of them are quite open about the fact that they're gamers as much as the rest of us, and so when they play another game and find a feature they like, they may consider borrowing it if it fits into their current project. Doesn't matter what that game actually is either - could well be a mobile game even, it's just a matter of finding something they want to include that makes sense.

Now sometimes that works out and sometimes it doesn't; and it's hardly the only consideration for why features do or don't get added to games; but it's a factor that I don't think should be ignored. Basically, if you see something you love in ESO, even if the game utterly tanks (not just goes F2P, but actually dies sooner rather than later) - there's still a fair chance you'll see it elsewhere eventually.

I mean look at WAR (Warhammer: Age of Reckoning) for instance. A lot of people didn't like that game (I did, for a time, but I'm weird) - it died relatively recently. However it basically invented the whole "Public Quest" concept. An entire MMO, RIFT, draws a not insignificant chunk of itself from that one feature of a defunct game; and a lot of other MMOs have borrowed the concept as well. Even ESO has an equivalent with the Dark Anchors.

Basically, a good feature is liable to crop up elsewhere, eventually.


Everything after this line is quite long, you can read it if you like, but I'm warning you up front, it's basically a long term MMO player grousing about an entire industry. I'll leave it there though, in part because I spent an hour typing it all out without realizing it. <'x'>

-----

All that said: I too want ESO to survive with a subscription model. The F2P model *can* be done well, but I've seen it abused pretty horribly in the vast majority of games I've seen it implemented in. One exception was CoH, though it did have the annoying gambling aspect (though it was mitigated to a degree compared to most) - the COH F2P model was pretty decent for the players, and the extra revenue actually seemed to get put back into content development too. (I'll stop there before I go on a 10 page rant about my loathing of NCSoft and my fears of what they'll do to Wildstar if it doesn't turn out to be the second coming of WoW).


*Basically think of it this way: Big name MMO comes out, sells a HEAP of boxes right out of the gate, and attracts a pretty good crowd right away. However as with any MMO, that crowd is going to fade a bit over time - probably substantially in the immediate period after the first month or two; because a lot of people have no intention of sticking with an MMO longer than a month or two to begin with.** The publisher may well have made enough money to keep the game going in perpetuity in a standard subscription model... but why do that when they could make a huge cash grab about a year or two later?

Go F2P, a lot of people come back to check out the changes to the game, some of them spend money while on this return trip, and while most will leave fairly quickly therafter... well the publisher doesn't care, they've still got their money. Worse, the people who paid for boxes up front before the F2P release typically don't get much of anything for their trouble. All that stuff that's now in the cash shop is stuff they have to pay for, the same as everyone else; and unlike everyone else, being loyal customers, those people are pretty likely to do so too. Even more fun for them: Rather than let you buy items directly at stupidly inflated prices, they can sell you chances to get an item, so they can make even more money off the same amount of stuff in the cash shop.

Basically, there is no reason NOT to go F2P from the publisher's perspective. Sure it might wreck the game, cause it to close sooner than it otherwise would or otherwise hamper long term success... but who cares about that? There's money to be made. (A lot of developers do not seem to share this enthusiasm of course; but they don't make those kinds of decisions.)

**This is something I don't think many people realize. WoW is a very, very bizarre anomaly in the MMO landscape - every game before and since has followed a similar - generally a strong start, then the playerbase shrinks substantially as those not heavily invested in the game drift off to something new, and that's when your core community forms - ie: everyone who actually stuck around. WoW, for a laundry list of reasons I could go into but won't, sucked in half the internet, and so even though it's now technically in decline, it was so big, that even a shrinking WoW is still enormous. Folks get this bizarre notion that if you aren't megagigantic after your first year, your game is a massive flop and you suck. Sometimes that's true, but other times (most of the time I'd argue), it's just people having incredibly unrealistic expectations (including publishers). They seem to have this weird belief that people will constantly play one game non-stop forever if it's good enough, and that's just not true. No matter how good a game is, it's going to get boring eventually, even if you constantly add content.*** Eventually doing the same thing over and over gets boring.

Example: I loved City of Heroes. I played it from 2004 until 2012 - it's entire lifespan; however despite my rather die-hard love of that game, I still took frequent breaks, because I played it to such a degree that after a point, I couldn't even stand to look at the interface anymore.

I think this is even more relevant in a market with WoW - because the people still playing WoW after all these years? They're the group that doesn't get bored as quickly; and that means they're already stuck to WoW in the first place. Prying them loose is incredibly difficult. (And this of course doesn't include the number of people who sub for a few months at a time, then drop off for awhile, then come back, then drop off again, like I do.)

***Another thing: A lot of said publishers *don't* add much content to their games. Once they're out they starve them of resources unless, again, they are megahits. Hell even WoW, which makes stupid amounts of money every month, honestly doesn't put out nearly as much content as it probably could and should given it's resources. The exceptions tend to be F2P games where most of what's delivered on a regular basis is stuff for the cash shop - usually highly *overpriced* stuff.

[Avilan the Grey]

Oh I would love for the game to survive. On a subscription model. As I said I vastly, in theory, prefer that payment method. I just can't afford it.

[Calemyr]

@mistformsquirrl :

I agree with you there. I guess there are three kinds of F2P games:
A) Games designed to be F2P (Guild Wars)
B) Successful games that lived out a retirement paid for by F2P (City of Heroes)
C) Unsuccessful games that are desperately trying to recoup some of their losses with a final cash grab (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Class "B" games I approve of. They tend to respect their fan base and find a good balancing point between funding the game and adding content for it. Class "A" games I don't really like but can tolerate. They were developed around the concept and fairly likely to give you a good game for free with conveniences and fluff for extra coin. Class "C" games, however, are beyond my ability to enjoy. They charge for access of features that were originally free, they cut the "free" game to the bone so that to really enjoy it at all requires money, and new development for the game is only an excuse for another wave of micro-transactions.

So, yeah, I wouldn't mind if ESO has a good innings and then spends its twilight years out to pasture, but if it they give up and go F2P because they aren't cutting it, they might as well go to the glue factory. I actually have some use for Elmer's.

@Avilan:
I hear you. It definitely sucks that you can't afford it. I really hope your situation improves to the point where a subscription fee is a feasible expense.
(For my part: I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't party. Ergo, $15 a month is an acceptable "boring tax" for me. I'd waste a lot more money than that if I weren't so boring.)

[Sylthia]

So exactly how many skill points do you get in total? Are there enough to do all the crafting professions, including provisioning?

[Calemyr]

So exactly how many skill points do you get in total? Are there enough to do all the crafting professions, including provisioning?

No idea. You get a lot of skill points for doing zone-arc quests, main story quests, collecting sky shards, and possibly other things (maybe the anchors?). All I know is that, when I hit Elden Root at around level 20 I already had 44 skill points.

[sihnfahl]

So exactly how many skill points do you get in total? Are there enough to do all the crafting professions, including provisioning?
Something in the neighborhood of 300 if you collect all the skyshards and do all the quests. Oh, and choose the rewards that give you skill points (Mad God's Bargain, I'm looking at YOU).

And, yes, if you have the time, you can do a heavy dent in the crafting professions... if you accept the need for lots and lots of bank space and frequent use of loot mules.

There's about 137 tied up in the main crafting professions.

Alchemy 19
Enchanting 22
Blacksmithing, Clothing, Provisioning, Woodworking 24 each

[Sylthia]

Something in the neighborhood of 300 if you collect all the skyshards and do all the quests. Oh, and choose the rewards that give you skill points (Mad God's Bargain, I'm looking at YOU).

And, yes, if you have the time, you can do a heavy dent in the crafting professions... if you accept the need for lots and lots of bank space and frequent use of loot mules.

There's about 137 tied up in the main crafting professions.

Alchemy 19
Enchanting 22
Blacksmithing, Clothing, Provisioning, Woodworking 24 each

Oh great, there's missable skill points!?

[sihnfahl]

Oh great, there's missable skill points!?
Only two. Mage's Guild Questline.

[Sylthia]

Only two. Mage's Guild Questline.

Hopefully, I haven't hit those yet. I'm in Grahtwood right now. At what point do those come into play?

On a related note, how do you check how many total skill points you have? Or do you just have to count them manually?

[sihnfahl]

Hopefully, I haven't hit those yet. I'm in Grahtwood right now. At what point do those come into play?
You won't get to that choice until your 40s.


On a related note, how do you check how many total skill points you have? Or do you just have to count them manually?
I believe you can go to the Shrine of Stendarr in Elden Root for a count.

Or plug in your spec to ESOHead's skill calculator and it'll tell you.

[Calemyr]

Mage's Guild quests begin in Auridon. You won't get to that choice until your 40s.


I believe you can go to the Shrine of Stendarr in Elden Root for a count.

Or plug in your spec to ESOHead's skill calculator and it'll tell you.

Yes, there are shrines to Akatosh and Stendarr in the capital of each faction (they use racial naming schemes, so in the Dominion it's a shrine to Auri-el). Akatosh allows you to respec stat points, Stendarr respecs skill points. Both of them charge 100g for each point involved and respecs all points, so it can get quite pricey if you're a completionist.

[mistformsquirrl]

I did it again. I rerolled. Twice more in fact. <T.T> What the heck is wrong with me? I'm enjoying the game immensely, but I just cannot seem to settle on a single character; which is annoying since I would like to see content higher than level 10.

Right now my 3 contenders for "main" (all of whom wield greatswords, because I'm just weird like that) are:

Wood Elf Nightblade with Medium Armor - this is that previous masterswordswoman character I mentioned. The only reason I've not stuck with her is reading up on the broken skills - I decided that I'd rather wait until they're fixed before I press on with that character; so I don't get myself up to a level where I could actually use those bugged skills and be disappointed that they don't work. (Since unfortunately said bugged skills are the ones my build is ostensibly set around.) This character may yet end up being my main once those skills are fixed, though I'm far from 100% on that.

Breton Dragon Knight with Heavy Armor - Basically I liked the idea of a fire-focused melee combatant - but in practice I'm not enjoying it as much as I'd have thought. Also I really wish I could just toss a regular fireball at people as one of my abilities, but the closest to that that I can get seems to be tossing a big rock at them instead. Somehow that feels less impressive. Also I was disappointed in the graphic for Dragon Leap; the videos I'd seen of it looked a lot more impressive than what I'm actually seeing in game when I use it. (To be fair, I only have the base version, not one of the morphed versions.)

Breton Templar with Heavy Armor - This is the one I'm currently working on, very much an aggressive paladin type character. So far I'm quite happy with her, and she appears like she'll be an ideal solo character due to the healing capabilities among other things. (I also admit I really like the combination of Heavy Armor and Breton racial abilities as it can get me some very heavy spell resistance; which is nice.)

Ahh well, regardless of what I'm playing, I still have fun with it. I just need to stop getting distracted so much.

[sihnfahl]

I just need to stop getting distracted so much.
Can't go wrong if you just lock in and go. Use the Breton Templar. (Course, it doesn't hurt that the Breton areas are full of daedra and undead, so a Templar is just perfect for exploration and leveling).

[Sylthia]

Can't go wrong if you just lock in and go. Use the Breton Templar. (Course, it doesn't hurt that the Breton areas are full of daedra and undead, so a Templar is just perfect for exploration and leveling).

Auridon seems pretty full of them as well.

[mistformsquirrl]

After some further play, yeah, I've settled on the Templar for now. It's kinda got a little bit of everything (except stealth), which is perfect for someone like me who likes to dabble in stuff. Made it to level 14 just a few minutes ago.

[Sylthia]

After some further play, yeah, I've settled on the Templar for now. It's kinda got a little bit of everything (except stealth), which is perfect for someone like me who likes to dabble in stuff. Made it to level 14 just a few minutes ago.

Stealth's not that great anyway, since 90% of the time you try it, some other person will come galloping in to aggro the mob anyway.

[mistformsquirrl]

Yeah - I tend not to like stealth in 99% of games; even when it is implemented well, I'm just not very good at sneaking. I like the idea of a stealthy character, but rarely is the execution much fun for me, even in most stealth games, let alone MMOs.

----

Unrelated: My Breton is beginning to feel a lot like that kid from the movie The Sixth Sense.

Out of my last 10 significant quests, at least 4 or 5 have been initiated by, or otherwise very significantly influenced by, ghosts. It's getting to where I feel like I've gone from being a knight in shining armor* to being a member of the Psychic Friend's Hotline or something. >_<

I don't mind in the grand scheme of things, I like ghosts, and in character, the dead certainly deserve some justice too - but it is surprising just how MANY are floating around Glennumbra. It seems to have more tragedies per square mile than any other fantasy environment I've experienced; and I've spent a not insignificant amount of time with Warhammer Fantasy, so that's saying something. <x-x>

*My templar is going the Paladin route, and it's working wonderfully, especially with Breton style heavy armor.

[sihnfahl]

Stealth's not that great anyway, since 90% of the time you try it, some other person will come galloping in to aggro the mob anyway.
Early on, yes, particularly in the public dungeons, but right now, as I'm in Veteran Content, stealth is oh so god useful. And there are, of course, the solo quests.

Also, the dungeons in Cyrodiil. Most of the time, they're empty except for mobs. Stealth works great there, especially in the cave with the 1-dot trolls.


I don't mind in the grand scheme of things, I like ghosts, and in character, the dead certainly deserve some justice too - but it is surprising just how MANY are floating around Glennumbra.
Welcome to the Elder Scrolls! Oh, and just wait until Rivenspire. Vampires left and right. Stormhaven is a little better, what with daedra.

... invest in Silver Bolts (Fighter's Guild).

[Sylthia]

Does a spell have to be on your hot bar, or just one of its class/weapon grouping?

I have some spells I'd like to level, but 5+1 is oh so few slots at a time.

[sihnfahl]

Does a spell have to be on your hot bar, or just one of its class/weapon grouping?
Works better if it's on your bar. So if you know an area has a particular type of enemy that is more vulnerable to a particular attack than an attack on your bar, swap them out.

[Sylthia]

Works better if it's on your bar. So if you know an area has a particular type of enemy that is more vulnerable to a particular attack than an attack on your bar, swap them out.

Ack, I didn't phrase that very well. What I meant to ask was does it have to be on the Hot Bar to gain XP for that spell? Also does it gain XP by simply being on your hot bar or do you have to use it to level it?

[sihnfahl]

Ack, I didn't phrase that very well. What I meant to ask was does it have to be on the Hot Bar to gain XP for that spell? Also does it gain XP by simply being on your hot bar or do you have to use it to level it?
Yes, it has to be on your hot bar.

As I recall, you gain 'general' xp when you complete a quest, so whatever is on your bar gets advanced.

[Calemyr]

Welcome to the Elder Scrolls! Oh, and just wait until Rivenspire. Vampires left and right. Stormhaven is a little better, what with daedra.

... invest in Silver Bolts (Fighter's Guild).

Sweet Sheo, do I love Silver Bolts. My only stamina-based attack so far, but I get such good use out of it, since so many things are undead or daedric. Later you can take a passive Fighter's Guild skill that will make it apply to werewolves as well.

I am curious about something I'm getting conflicting reports about: is there a second tier of morphing in the game? I'm at 37 with at least two morphed skills sitting at rank IV with a full bar, but they never pop. Is the second morph only available as a veteran?

[Sylthia]

Do runes become easier to acquire at higher levels? It seems I have a million triangular runes, but the squares and circles are few and far between. Or am I just unlucky?

[Calemyr]

Do runes become easier to acquire at higher levels? It seems I have a million triangular runes, but the squares and circles are few and far between. Or am I just unlucky?

Mostly unlucky, but I think the triangles are more likely. There are a LOT more varieties for the triangle runes, after all.

[Vaz]

Sweet Sheo, do I love Silver Bolts. My only stamina-based attack so far, but I get such good use out of it, since so many things are undead or daedric. Later you can take a passive Fighter's Guild skill that will make it apply to werewolves as well.

I am curious about something I'm getting conflicting reports about: is there a second tier of morphing in the game? I'm at 37 with at least two morphed skills sitting at rank IV with a full bar, but they never pop. Is the second morph only available as a veteran?

Googling suggests not, I can't find the quote but apparently at Launch there was only 1 pair of morphs for each skill. I can't see it being increased until come say Christmas time/this time next year when they're putting out their next big release (probably riding off the back of an RPG release like DA:Inquisition). Plus there are a ton of bugged abilities which need fixing, followed by quests that I can see before "yet more" variation would come in.

A huge expansion with new skills, classes, combat areas and loot is going to be a major thang to draw people back in; look at D3 and Reaper of Souls.

[sihnfahl]

Sweet Sheo, do I love Silver Bolts. My only stamina-based attack so far, but I get such good use out of it, since so many things are undead or daedric. Later you can take a passive Fighter's Guild skill that will make it apply to werewolves as well.
My favorite part about it is the knockdown, which even affects one dots (like the Watchers). They start winding up for a massive whirl, silver bolt. Fall down, whack. "Go down and STAY down." And daedroths become laughable.

Vampires? "Just lay down and die .... again."

[Sylthia]

Mostly unlucky, but I think the triangles are more likely. There are a LOT more varieties for the triangle runes, after all.

Yeah, it seem like I've got a couple dozen of them clogging up my inventory right now.

The inventory management in this game needs a lot of work.

[Calemyr]

My favorite part about it is the knockdown, which even affects one dots (like the Watchers). They start winding up for a massive whirl, silver bolt. Fall down, whack. "Go down and STAY down." And daedroths become laughable.

Vampires? "Just lay down and die .... again."

The level 35 Harborage quest as well:

Mannimarco: Next time you want to protect something from a master necromancer, I suggest you don't use a crypt!
* Legendary Redguard heroes start rising from the ground.
Me: (Pulling out my crossbow and knocking the closest one (incidentally the Redguard version of Miyamoto Musashi) flat on it's bony back) Um, no. Fighting undead works just fine for me, thanks.

(Honestly, that was a horrible, horrible fight. Three powerful heroes on my side that don't do a point of damage and can't pull aggro to save my life against 6 powerful skeletons with nasty special attacks and a tendency to gang up on the player character? Oh, and they respawn if you don't kill all six fast enough? If it weren't for Silver Bolt I would never have gotten through it.)




Yeah, it seem like I've got a couple dozen of them clogging up my inventory right now.

The inventory management in this game needs a lot of work.

Every Beta I listed that as the one thing they needed to fix most.

[sihnfahl]

The level 35 Harborage quest as well
Eh, DragonKnight. Green Dragon Blood, Talons, Shield Bash, Pierce and Slash.

I see casters having an issue, though.

[Calemyr]

Eh, DragonKnight. Green Dragon Blood, Talons, Shield Bash, Pierce and Slash.

I see casters having an issue, though.

Templar, leather armor, duel swords, aedric spear focus. I can do a lot of damage, but groups of durable melee can overwhelm me pretty quickly. Even with freshly minted gear (waited to 36 just for that reason), it was a war of attrition.

[sihnfahl]

Templar, leather armor, duel swords, aedric spear focus. I can do a lot of damage, but groups of durable melee can overwhelm me pretty quickly. Even with freshly minted gear (waited to 36 just for that reason), it was a war of attrition.
That'd do it.

DK, heavy/medium w/ 1H+Shield, primarily Draconic Power.

Skill bar at the time was talons, green dragon blood, pierce, slash and bash.

Isolate, weaken and pound down. Self-heal when necessary.

[Sylthia]

Does anyone know hoe spell power affects healing? If you have say 29 spell power, with a heal that has 4 ticks of 30 health each, is that 29 extra health per tick, divided by 4 for roughly 7 extra health per tick, or something different?

[mistformsquirrl]

So, paladin is advancing very well - I'm up to level 18 now and thus far my skill choices seem to be working quite well. I even built myself a full set of steel armor and a new sword as soon as I hit 18, so that helped.

That said, I have come upon an unusual hurdle - while I don't roleplay really, I do tend to like to have a backstory to my characters in most games, especially when there are decisions to make as that helps me choose while maintaining a consistent pattern of behavior. (Otherwise it's far too easy for me to 'cheat' and just look up the outcomes online, and go with what gets the best reward or has the better outcome via hindsight.)

Most of the concept I've got down pretty well, I'm just having some trouble with chosing a patron deity for her knightly order. I grant that it generally has little effect, but it's one of those finishing touches that still feels important somehow.

----

The order in question is the Order of the Silver Heart, a rather small religious organization growing out of Daggerfalls poor and those with an eye to helping them.

They aren't an official knightly order, as they have no ties to the crown or even to the lesser nobility. In times past this could cause significant friction. The order bases itself on pretty radical levels of mercy and justice. For most of it's history the order functioned primarily as a charity and social services group, one that particularly drew the ire of unscrupulous merchants and nobles of questionable ethics; they only armed themselves and took their present form in the last thirty years or so, after many members were massacred after someone hired brigands to massacre a rather large relief caravan en route.

The survivors armed themselves or left the group altogether. Shortly after arming themselves the Silver Heart found itself routinely drawn in to aiding people who needed defense as much as they needed food and clothing - and soon after that their mission changed to match their new martial stance. This isn't to say the Silver Heart has abandoned it's older principles, but it prefers to send extra coin and goods to other organizations to distribute rather than doing so directly. After all, being good with a sword doesn't necessarily translate to also being good with a balance sheet.

Needless to say, after the order armed, many among the knightly orders thought of them as at best pretenders - and others as seditious radicals.

This began to change as the good they did became more visible to lesser nobles and wealthy peasants; it's hard to dislike an organization that just saved your town at the cost of several of it's own. Additionally the Silver Hearts became more visibly patriotic - while still condemning the excesses of the nobility, the organization was equally quick to emphasize that High Rock - and later the Daggerfall Covenant at large - were quite a bit closer to their ideals than the Ebonheart Pact or particularly the Aldmeri Dominion would likely ever be. Whether this was a genuine statement of conviction at the time or whether it was merely pandering to ease some ruffled feathers is hard to say, but as of the present the Silver Hearts are indeed quite quick to defend the Covenant with words, or with blade and spell, and while not numerous enjoy a fair deal of good will in High Rock (where they operate).

Membership was originally restricted to Bretons, but over time the restrictions have been lifted entirely and anyone who is dedicated to the cause, capable with arms, and willing to swear loyalty to King Emeric and the Daggerfall Covenant are welcome.

-----

So yeah, that's the organization I'm trying to determine a deity for.

The obvious choice is Stendarr - he's quite literally the god of mercy, justice and compassion. The problem is, I'm not enamored of Stendarr's followers in Skyrim or what little I've seen of them in ESO. Basically a lot of them seem rather hypocritical, and while the Order of the Silver Heart is not flawless (they are after all just mortals), they are at least quite earnest in their beliefs.

Mara seemed like another reasonable choice - after all, what other than love can motivate such selflessness in the first place? On the other hand Mara seems rather traditionalist and the Silver Heart are rather not in most ways. Also I admit I'm not sure that Mara having a martial order necessarily makes any sense.

The rest don't really make a whole lot of sense from my perspective, but to be fair, my knowledge of the Elder Scrolls series comes primarily from Skyrim and Online, so maybe I'm missing something. Any ideas? >.<

[Animastryfe]

Sweet Sheo, do I love Silver Bolts. My only stamina-based attack so far, but I get such good use out of it, since so many things are undead or daedric. Later you can take a passive Fighter's Guild skill that will make it apply to werewolves as well.

I am curious about something I'm getting conflicting reports about: is there a second tier of morphing in the game? I'm at 37 with at least two morphed skills sitting at rank IV with a full bar, but they never pop. Is the second morph only available as a veteran?

There is no secondary morph. For checking skills, use esohead.com.

[Sylthia]

There is no secondary morph. For checking skills, use esohead.com.

What happens to morphed skills/skill XP when you reset your points?

[Animastryfe]

What happens to morphed skills/skill XP when you reset your points?

According to stackexchange (https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/163421/how-can-i-redistribute-skill-points-in-elder-scrolls-online), "Also note that any skill you spec out of will keep their ranks, but skills you spec into will of course start at rank 1 (or the rank you might've had previously if you've already specced away from them and now want to get back)".

[Sylthia]

According to stackexchange (https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/163421/how-can-i-redistribute-skill-points-in-elder-scrolls-online), "Also note that any skill you spec out of will keep their ranks, but skills you spec into will of course start at rank 1 (or the rank you might've had previously if you've already specced away from them and now want to get back)".

Thanks.

I just yesterday found out that you can do the quests for the dungeons that aren't in your faction.

[sihnfahl]

I just yesterday found out that you can do the quests for the dungeons that aren't in your faction.
Yep. You just need to find a group for it and teleport there.

They even recognize that you're not from whichever faction controls the region.

Don't care. Monsters to kill, evil to slay.

Also, fun! Vampires are ... pretty much overrunning Cyrodiil, have you noticed? Can't swing a dead khajiit without hitting one.

Not like I mind. I've amped up on stam and have been introducing them to silver leash. They're going to HATE the next patch, when silver leash actually yanks player vamps to the user...

Oh, it is so much fun to have an 'I can AMBUSH!' vampire go 'nononononogetmeaway'....

[Animastryfe]

Yep. You just need to find a group for it and teleport there.

They even recognize that you're not from whichever faction controls the region.

Don't care. Monsters to kill, evil to slay.

Also, fun! Vampires are ... pretty much overrunning Cyrodiil, have you noticed? Can't swing a dead khajiit without hitting one.

Not like I mind. I've amped up on stam and have been introducing them to silver leash. They're going to HATE the next patch, when silver leash actually yanks player vamps to the user...

Oh, it is so much fun to have an 'I can AMBUSH!' vampire go 'nononononogetmeaway'....

I am a Dragon Knight who uses Unstable Flame and Molten Whip. I am looking forward to the next time I find a vampire in Cyrodiil.

[sihnfahl]

I am a Dragon Knight who uses Unstable Flame and Molten Whip. I am looking forward to the next time I find a vampire in Cyrodiil.
Hopefully, though, they'll address the vampire DK with Banner issue.

[mistformsquirrl]

Hrm, so I've run into a bit of an oddity - it's not a problem per-se, I'm getting along just fine and greatly enjoying myself... but I seem to only be using 3 of my 5 regular skills lots. The other two are just sort of 'there'.

(Warning, longness)


Now, one of those slots is devoted to Focused Charge from the Aedric Spear* line - the sole reason I have it there is to level Aedric Spear so I can eventually get the "Balanced Warrior" passive (+2% Weapon Damage + Spell Resist, per level) - which unlike the other passives, does not even require you have an Aedric Spear skill equipped.

The three skills I actually use are:

Reflective Light - The damage over time + snare is amazingly useful, it's also my only real AOE outside of the minor splash damage my two-hander does through a passive.

Wrecking Blow - My sole Stamina-based skill; love the animation and the rather heavy amount of damage it does, not to mention the disruption to whatever the enemy was doing. (It's a bit slow, but that's OK, I seem to do well at timing it right.)

Honor the Dead - Insta-cast heal that restores some mana if I'm below half when I cast it. Has gotten me out of a tremendous number of sticky situations. I tried Healing Ritual and Restoring Aura in it's place... but frankly neither did the job very well in comparison. I even tried putting Restoring Aura on the bar just to have a HoT as well as an instant heal... it really didn't do much good though.

I also use Nova (the Solar Prison morph specifically) as my ultimate. It's pretty darned useful, but charging it up takes awhile, so I rarely drop it unless I've got multiple groups on me or a quest boss who's proving to be a bit of a pain. Still, I like it.

Then I've got a final slot which I keep experimenting with, however I cannot seem to figure out what to put there. So far I've tried:

Silver Bolts - Animation doesn't suit the character, and I already have a ranged attack. I also have a very limited Stamina reserve since I'm focused on Magicka and HP, so I really don't like to be draining Stamina on something that's relatively redundant.

Piercing Javelin - Unnecessary 99% of the time, as again it's another ranged attack, and I've already got one. It's not a bad skill at all really, it just doesn't add any options I don't already have really it feels.

Backlash - I had high hopes for this ability; but since I don't group, and "normal" enemies die pretty quickly against me, this one ended up being redundant. It's probably an excellent skill to use against bosses... I just don't fight bosses. (I do however love the animation... it's like one of the Aedra decided to pull the "magnifying glass on an ant" trick on whatever target I've chosen.)

Eclipse - Probably outstanding in PVP... in PVE I'm finding it pretty meh. In theory it's good, but most spells I want to stop are multi-target, and it's also very mana-intensive. It doesn't help that a good chunk of enemies use abilities that don't count as spells at all, so plenty of times this skill doesn't even have a target to use it on. Not a big fan of the animation either; though with skill morphs that could change at least.

Solar Barrage - I used this for a long time and honestly, it just didn't feel that helpful. In theory it's a great ability - AOE damage and extra power when you hit the targets next to boot... but the initial damage is kinda 'eh', and unless I want to back up and re-cast Reflective Light, hitting everyone affected by Solar Barrage before the debuff expires can be a bit tricky. I suspect this would be better in a group since someone else could take advantage of the debuff on other enemies.

Skills I'm considering as I unlock them:

Cleave - I skipped Cleave initially because I planned from the get-go to be spell-heavy, with my sword being primarily for normal attacks. That said, the extra AOE would not hurt in all honesty, and Cleave isn't as stamina intensive as some things can be.

Immovable - It certainly sounds like a good "Oh Crap" button, and since it runs on Stamina it wouldn't impact the majority of my skills. That said, I'm actually overcharged on armor most of the time, and my spell resistance isn't much behind that. So I'm not sure how that interaction would work or whether there'd be much benefit in the end. Would have to see.

Rune Focus - Similar to Immovable really; has some advantages/disadvantages in comparison, but the same basic concept.

Momentum - Extra damage and a decent duration... can't really imagine any problems. It does however sound a bit... dull. Still, it's a possibility.

------

But yeah, that's kinda where I'm at right now, trying to figure out what the crap I want for that last slot so that it's actually getting some use.

I've also run into a problem in that while I have weapon swapping available... I cannot honestly think of what alternate weapon or skill set up I might actually want. I'm leaning toward sword-and-board and going for a tanking set up for tough fights, or even just using sword-and-board as a change of pace option from time to time; but I haven't felt like making the effort of actually building the equipment or using the skill points. So yeah.

Just kind of fiddling around basically >.<

*I really dislike this skill line for the most part - particularly the first and third skills. It's very powerful mind you - but I *hate* that rather than have the melee attacks "holy-ify" the weapon you're using... they just replace your weapon with a (really bad looking) spear of light. Yeah, yeah, the line is called Aedric Spear, that doesn't mean it has to be so literal. That said, Sun Shield or Spear Shards *might* be worth getting - and Balanced Warrior definitely seems like it would be.

[Animastryfe]

I am not familiar with the Templar. I find that having a ranged weapon is near essential in some PvE and PvP situations. You can level your alternate weapon skill by splitting up your mob experience and quest experience. While killing regular mobs, use your main skill bar. While turning in quests, have your other skill bar up. Then, the quest experience will go towards your second skill bar.

[sihnfahl]

Silver Bolts - Animation doesn't suit the character, and I already have a ranged attack. I also have a very limited Stamina reserve since I'm focused on Magicka and HP, so I really don't like to be draining Stamina on something that's relatively redundant.
One of the main things you'll find is that a lot of things are situational. It's one reason why the skill swap exists (well, other than the fact they only wanted 5 abilities and one ultimate slotted at a time).

I keep things on my bar while leveling because the general XP goes towards those abilities. That leads to your skill line advancing, opening up more useful things as well as passives.

Oh, and, yes, for most things, Silver Bolts isn't that good. It's when you're capable of laying an opponent on the ground and getting a few seconds of open hits without retaliation - or some regen time - that it shines. God knows I've been in enough Veteran 2 and 3 dungeons where SB has made things a little easier. Yes, I eat a lot of stamina food...

And while grouping? You better believe I'm hitting that swap key. It's exceedingly useful, really. But then, my favorite class in WoW since 1.7 was a druid...

[mistformsquirrl]

Maybe I'll pick up a Bow or something down the line then but mostly stick to my current set up.

*edit*

Lol - I just encountered a pretty hilarious bug >_<

I killed a troll in Rivenspire to get to a quest object (a letter), which I proceeded to read - while I was reading the troll re-spawned right on top of me. Not being eager to have another long fight like that, I immediately tried to back off - and sure enough, it didn't aggro me...

However it DID turn it's head to face me and, I am not kidding you - said "Hello!" just like one of NPC civilians in town.

<@_@> Trolls are incredibly polite in ESO apparently.

[mistformsquirrl]

Hrm. I am feeling kinda stupid for not knowing this ahead of time, but I have just learned something that I'm finding a twinge upsetting to be honest.

Veteran ranks: Up till now I'd been under the impression that once you hit 50 you earned them primarily from either PVP or special veteran zones.* I figured Craglorn was basically a group-based extension of this.

... then I come to find out that instead, when you hit 50, you choose a different faction and go do their quests, then at VR5 you swap to the third faction and do their quests. I do not like this. I feel like it compromises loyalty to your own faction in a big, big way, and on top of that it sounds like it's the only real way to get to maximum VR; which given VR gear isn't something you can realistically do unless you just want to hit level 50 and park that character.

Craglorn doesn't strike me as a particularly good alternative either since I don't like grouping.

I dunno, I was hoping to enjoy this game for a fairly long time, but now it's starting to sound like once I hit 50, my only option if I want to keep playing is either grit my teeth and ignore the nonsense of suddenly working for another faction, or start an alt.**

Oh well; maybe by the time I finish my alt runs (I am notoriously slow), there will be another option or something. <x.x>

*What little I'd heard about veteran levels before I finally went ahead and looked it up was just a smattering of conversation here and there. Nobody had really mentioned directly that "veteran zones" are just higher ranked versions of other factions content.

**I love alts, so that's probably what I'll do. But I've only got three trips to the top before I'm out of stuff to do, and then what?

[Sylthia]

Hrm. I am feeling kinda stupid for not knowing this ahead of time, but I have just learned something that I'm finding a twinge upsetting to be honest.

Veteran ranks: Up till now I'd been under the impression that once you hit 50 you earned them primarily from either PVP or special veteran zones.* I figured Craglorn was basically a group-based extension of this.

... then I come to find out that instead, when you hit 50, you choose a different faction and go do their quests, then at VR5 you swap to the third faction and do their quests. I do not like this. I feel like it compromises loyalty to your own faction in a big, big way, and on top of that it sounds like it's the only real way to get to maximum VR; which given VR gear isn't something you can realistically do unless you just want to hit level 50 and park that character.

Craglorn doesn't strike me as a particularly good alternative either since I don't like grouping.

I dunno, I was hoping to enjoy this game for a fairly long time, but now it's starting to sound like once I hit 50, my only option if I want to keep playing is either grit my teeth and ignore the nonsense of suddenly working for another faction, or start an alt.**

Oh well; maybe by the time I finish my alt runs (I am notoriously slow), there will be another option or something. <x.x>

*What little I'd heard about veteran levels before I finally went ahead and looked it up was just a smattering of conversation here and there. Nobody had really mentioned directly that "veteran zones" are just higher ranked versions of other factions content.

**I love alts, so that's probably what I'll do. But I've only got three trips to the top before I'm out of stuff to do, and then what?

After a month of somewhat regular play I'm still only 24. It'll probably be free to play by the time I hit max level.

[mistformsquirrl]

I hope not, I really do like the game, even if it's got elements that aggravate me. (Then again, every MMO does; even games that aren't out yet!*)

I feel like compared to most MMOs, ESO has much stronger narrative direction, better quests in general (very very few that amount to "Kill X number of Y"); crafting that I enjoy, and with the ability to dye our armor eventually even one of my minor nitpicks is going to go away... Basically to me it feels like a pile of great ideas that need polished - which is pretty much true of every Elder Scrolls game honestly. I dunno, I will hope the game has better luck, and that by the time I get to veteran ranks there will be another option for leveling them.

----

Unrelated; I really hope that down the line someday we can get an Akaviri crafting style. Yes yes, I know, I'm a horrible weaboo... I care not. So few games actually give me that kind of equipment, and even those that do usually get it terribly wrong in some fashion. I have some faith that ESO could actually make it work though, and it actually has a lore justification as well.

*I really love what I've played of Wildstar in beta - but they don't allow the race/class combo I want to play. (I've heard rumors that that's temporary and that eventually they'll have ever class/race combo allowed, it's just a matter of getting time to animate them all). Still, it feels like someone offering a plate of a favorite food but only if I eat a huge bowl of unsweetened oatmeal first. (I've pretty much relegated myself to playing an 'alt' until the situation is rectified.)

[Math_Mage]

Now seems like a good time to interject and ask what people's general impressions are of ESO. I haven't played, and I've only seen a couple trailers and Zero Punctuation's review--and I know better than to actually form an opinion of a game from a ZP review, especially w.r.t. anything multiplayer.

[mistformsquirrl]

Here's my impression as of right now -

Spoilered for length:


Character building is awesome:

Basically, your class is your "super power" essentially - you don't even have to use it if you don't want to, though for obvious reasons, most do. Then you choose weapon or two. You can, at level 15, switch weapons freely, and you get a different set of ability slots for when you switch too - near as I can tell there's no cooldown timer either. You can also wear any type of armor you like - I personally prefer to stick with a single type to minimize skillpoint distribution and maximize the bonuses from that type of armor, but there's nothing that says you can't wear some of each even, it's even beneficial depending on precisely what it is you're trying to accomplish.

Each armor type has a different theme in terms of passives, as well as respectively higher defense:

Light Armor - Improves spellcasting and spell resistance.

Medium Armor - Improves critical chance, sneaking and attack speed.

Heavy Armor - Improves your defenses even further, gives a small bonus to damage as well.

Your race also has passives you can put points into to improve the area that race is naturally or culturally good at - however you don't have to put those points in if you don't want so you can quite happily make a Nord mage or a Wood Elf knight or whatever else you like.

Weapons each have a 'theme' to them as well it seems:

Dual Wield - High damage.

Two-Handed - Crowd Control and Damage.

One-hand and Shield - Tanking and Crowd Control. (I have heard that at present one of it's abilities is very overpowered and so it can basically do everything, but I doubt that'll last long.)

Bow - Ranged damage. (Particularly nice from stealth I should add.)

Destruction Staves - Elemental damage, some range some closer up - which element depends on which type of staff you have, fire, frost or lightning.

Healing Staff - Exactly what it says on the tin. It can do ranged damage too, but that's not it's purpose.

As far as your class goes:

While each class has a general theme, you can quite easily bend that theme to your whim. For instance, if you want to make a Fire Mage, it's entirely possible to use a Dragon Knight with a Fire Destruction Staff and Light Armor to do precisely that. BURN ALL THE THINGS. This despite that Dragon Knight is most often viewed as a basis for melee characters, particularly tanks.

Here's a basic idea of what each class does:

Sorcerer - CC spells, Direct damage spells, pets, health-to-mana swap, self buff

Dragon Knight - Close range fire damage, self and group buffs, self heals

Templar - Ranged damage and debuff, melee damage, self and group buffs and healing (in general). Templar is astoundingly versatile really, even compared to the others.

Nightblade - Melee damage, self buffs, debuffs, health and resource stealing powers, ability to go invisible during combat briefly, special melee sneak attack

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The one negative out of all this is that if you want to play a purely physical character (a traditional warrior or rogue type for instance) you're going to have a tougher time of it.

Either you have to fake it, and only choose visually quieter powers, or go full out on weapon skills, both of which can be fairly restrictive. My recommendation (despite one that I have difficulty following myself) is to simply accept that every character you play is going to use at least some magic. It's just the nature of the beast at present.

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Graphically I think the game looks quite good - in particular I much prefer the faces and hair styles to traditional Bethesda fare. (In regular Elder Scrolls games the first thing I download is almost always a Better Faces or Better Hair pack for characters.) Armor and weapons are generally quite a bit more realistic than in most MMOs, while still retaining some fantasy styling. It's not like WoW for instance where your swords are six inches wide and absolutely covered in random 'stuff', at least not any of the stuff I've seen thus far.

In particular if traditional female 'skimpy armor' annoys you, this game is great in that respect, as very very few armors have any cut-outs in them. (The only ones I'm aware of off the top of my head is the low-level female Wood Elf heavy armor). Everything else looks like reasonable armor.

Customizing your character is fairly nice as well - you can adjust sliders for most of your face and your body, including height.

The only thing that annoys me in that regard is hairstyles - there are a decent number, but I'd have preferred more. Still, they're mostly good, there aren't very many that just make me think "no, would never in a million years use that".

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Combat - the meat of any MMO; and imo ESO does very, very well on this front. You click for a light attack, or hold and release for a heavy attack. (Technically you can just keep holding and it'll do repeated heavy attacks, but I find there are very few situations where I want to do this.) - These are your basic weapon attacks, and they are not an inconsiderable part of your arsenal. They're not like auto-attacks in most games where you want to be using them as little as possible.

That said you've got an array of abilities - up to 5 - chosen from the various skill trees your character has access to. This includes your class, your weapon, even your armor can grant you a skill to put on the bar; there are also skill lines you earn by joining the guilds (Mage, Fighter's and Undaunted at present), a couple other special ones you can earn later on. Class skills, staff skills, and Mage's Guild skills all require magicka, while Fighter's Guild, non-staff weapon skills, and armor skills all use Stamina. I don't remember what the Undaunted take, as I don't group and they're for people who do dungeons, which are generally a group thing.

Anything you put points into is fair game to go on the bar (with the exceptions of weapon skills from a different type of weapon) - but remember you've only got five slots.

You've also got an Ultimate slot. Depending on the ultimate you choose, it can be a really big "OH CRAP" button, or a relatively frequent type of attack, or other things entirely. I only really have experience with the first two varieties however. Ultimates, unlike other skills, run on the Ultimate resource, instead of magicka or stamina.

Actual combat is fast, but not so fast as to make you feel like you missed what happened. Once you get a decent weapon (something around your level and green with an enchant on it) you'll be able to kill things pretty darn quickly. The challenge is mostly in identifying which mob needs to die first in a given group and making sure that they bite it - as well as learning when to block, dodge, or disrupt.

When an enemy 'charges up' with white-gold lines, they're about to hit you with a big physical attack - if you block and have stamina, they'll be recoiled and become stunned, you can then hit them with a heavy attack for extra damage and knock them down. Blocking eats stamina. You can also block other attacks and it's useful to do so at times - but this is sort of the definitive "block now" situation.

When an enemy charges up with red lines, that means you need to disrupt them (block, then press attack, you'll slam them) - then they'll be put in the same state as above. Note that disrupting uses stamina.

Sometimes you'll see a red area highlighted and the enemy doesn't appear to be charging up - in that case just get out of the area and let them do whatever they were doing. You can walk out if you've got time, or double tap to dodge if you don't have much time. Dodging eats stamina.

Some people say combat is too easy - I personally disagree, I think it's quite good where it's at, at least at the levels I've played at. That said, it's not Dark Souls or anything like that either. Usually I only die if I pull too many mobs or make a serious mistake; that said my main is a heavy armor wearing templar with a self heal... so as long as she's got magicka, she doesn't die. My less frequently played stamina-focused Nightblade has proven much more fragile.

Ultimately though I find the combat a lot of fun - and that's the important thing. It's a LOT more interesting than most MMOs.

Questing:

The other major thing in any MMO - Questing in ESO is imo miles above most other MMOs. First off, you'll find very few "Go kill X number of Y critter" quests. They exist, but they aren't at all common. Combat is usually for a reason - you need to acquire an item, a disguise, or even just to get past the people guarding a location. It feels more like D&D in that way, and to me that's good.

The game also has a pleasant number of quests where things actually change as you go. This isn't like most MMOs where after killing 10 Raging Jerks you're said to have saved the town... but you can still see the same battle unfolding right in front of your eyes, forever. This isn't to say every time you do a quest something in the world changes - but it happens often enough that you notice, and it really helps with immersion.
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Crafting

Equipment Crafting -

Crafting is one of the best features ESO has imo, and it has two sides to it.

First off, the practical side:

You learn how to craft primarily by breaking down unwanted items into resources. This is important, because it takes a large chunk of resources to actually craft an item.

Additionally, you learn to give items various traits by Researching those traits - you do this by acquiring a drop with the given trait on the desired type of item (for instance, a Greatsword with the Sharpened trait), and then you research that. Once the research finishes, you'll be able to make greatswords with the sharpened trait - provided you have the materials required of course.

Research times increase based on how many traits you already know for a given type of item, and can get quite lengthy - however you can reduce the time required and unlock additional research slots by spending skill points in the crafting skill of your choice. You also need to invest skill points in order to improve the level of armor you can make (to learn to go from Iron to Steel for instance), and you can also invest in useful but not necessary things like making crafting nodes more visible or having a hireling send you resources each day.

Also note that when you make an item, it's initially "white" quality - ie: bottom of the heap. To improve it, you can use up to 5 crafting items of a corresponding quality to improve that item to that quality. Note that 5 items used = 100% chance to succeed; however these items are relatively uncommon, so early on at least you're going to have to wait a long time to get a full set of crafted green equipment. That's OK actually - white gear will hold you in good stead, though I recommend trying to make a green weapon when you can. (I generally try to upgrade every 4 levels.)

There is however a skill under the crafting lines that lets you increase the chance of success with fewer items, and another line that improves your yield from breaking items down. Both of these are pretty important abilities to have if you're serious about crafting.

So, putting it together - you build your basic item, then you upgrade it, first to green, then to blue, then to purple, and finally to gold. So far I've only made up to green items myself, but I'm only at level 25 with my main.

Finally it should be noted that you have some level of control over what your items look like. Initially you can only craft your race's style of equipment, but as you adventure and check random objects, you'll find Motifs - motifs being equipment styles. So without too much effort your orc can start building wood elf equipment or vice-versa. There are also "Prestige" motifs - Daedric, Primal, Barbaric... might be more; that no race starts out knowing.

Ultimately this lets you dress your character as you wish, if you care about that kind of thing. Needless to say this game has an enormous variety of equipment compared to most MMOs. There are 9 races, each of which have 3 kinds of armor (light, medium, heavy) and each of those has 9 tiers of material used - each tier generally expands on what the previous tier had in terms of looks.

Right now you can't dye armor, but that's something the devs have stated they want to add in the future.

Consumable Crafting -

There are also three types of consumable crafting; and each works differently.

Enchanting - Build enchantments for your items. Note there is one oddity with this system - a lot of enchantments specify Jewelry, but as of right now we can't make Jewelry, and most Jewelry worth wearing is already enchanted. I suspect this will be remedied in the future.

To improve you break down dropped enchantments and build your own.

Alchemy - Make potions. I don't know much about alchemy honestly, I haven't messed with it much. Obviously you can make healing, stamina and magicka potions, but I'm sure there are other varieties as well, given the ridiculous variety of ingredients out there.

Provisioning - Food! Food in ESO gives you one of several kinds of buffs. I haven't messed with this either, for reasons similar to Alchemy - I quite simply do not have the space necessary in my bank to keep the ingredients.

A final note: If you don't care about crafting, you can make do with quest rewards and drops. In fact you can probably get slightly better gear that way if you're not particular on it's visual style or what it's precise abilities are. I prefer to craft because that way I can control the look of what I wear, and give it the precise abilities I want it to have.

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Banks, Auction Houses, Travel and that sort of thing

Okay, in ESO you've essentially got two inventories - your personal inventory (Ie: your bag) - initially this holds 60 items. You can, very cheaply, up this to 70 items, and for an ever-increasing price you can increase your bag commensurately. Ditto your bank size.

Your bank however is special - it's an account-bank rather than a personal bank, and as such increasing it's size is, imo, arguably more important than increasing your personal inventory. Particularly since anything you put in the bank is available to all your characters to craft with.

There is no global auction house. This is very, very important - as of right now today, the only way to trade things on a large scale in the same vein is to join a guild and use the guild auction house. You can have up to 5 guilds, so theoretically you can have a fair number of people to trade with; but I haven't joined any guilds so I have no idea how well that works in practice.

Travel - there's basically two modes of travel: Walking/Mounted and using Waystones.

Walking or mounted are pretty self explanatory, but horses deserve a mention because unlike most games, you can level your horse up. Every 20 hours you can pay 250 gold (a very small sum) to mildly improve one three of your horse's capabilities:

Speed - Exactly what it sounds like. A basic horse has 15% starting speed, so it's not that much faster than walking - however this isn't the no brainer it appears to be. At 20 speed I'm told it becomes leaner and more muscular.

Stamina - Improves the horse's ability to sprint, and how resistant it is to letting you get knocked off. I'm told it gets barding if you reach 20 Stamina. (Your horse is pretty fast when it sprints compared to just at a regular run, so this is not an inconsiderable bonus.)

Capacity - Increases your inventory by one slot per point invested in the horse. At 20 I'm told the horse gains saddlebags.

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I personally have been going for Capacity so far - inventory space is often at a premium, and due to Waystones, speed of travel is often not an issue. Honestly I like the slower pace since it lets me see little events I might have missed in the world, spot crafting materials and generally enjoy the scenery. That said, horses are customizable so you can do whatever you like, just understand that it'll take awhile to max out a horse.

I should also mention that there are currently 5 kinds of horse:

Imperial Horse - You get this from the Imperial Edition of the game; it lets you buy a basic horse for 1 gold. It's also a spiffy white horse, so if you want to be a paladin, it's a nice choice.

Common Horse - The normal 'basic' horse - 17,000 gold instead of 1. However the Imperial horse cost you 20 bucks in real life, so... fair is fair.

Then there are three more advanced horses, each selling for 42,000 gold each.

Draft Horse - Extra capacity and stamina.

Gaited Horse - Even more extra stamina compared to the Draft Horse, but no extra capacity.

Light Horse - Extra speed and stamina.

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My understanding is that the 42k horses are flatly superior to the 2 "basic" horses; and that in pure min-max terms, one shouldn't invest any gold in the basic horses. Horses max out at level 50, they gain one level every time you feed them. The 42k horses therefore have 20 free levels each, with the same ability to grow as the basic horses.

That said, I'm quite content with my Imperial horse and have been feeding it each day. Frankly, 250 gold a day is peanuts, even if it ends up being a waste, it's not a significant one, and the extra carrying capacity in the meantime let's me stay in the field longer and thus nab more loot. So make of that what you will.

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The bad stuff:

While up till now this has been mostly a glowing review with a side of "how to play" (I feel that if I explain a system, you can decide for yourself if it appeals) - there are some serious problems in ESO and I'd be remiss if I didn't address them.

Bugs: The game has a lot of these. Some of the worst seem to have been squashed, thankfully, but even as recently as a couple days ago a level 25 Mage's Guild quest was incapable of being completed due to a bug. Basically, if you buy the game now you just have to accept you will eventually run into at least a few. Most will be very minor, but once in awhile they could be showstopping. In my experience, the higher you get, the worse it is in this regard. So if you play it slow, you'll be fine, but if you like to rocket up to the top, you may have a problem.

Bots: There have been a LOT of bots in ESO. Most are confined to the public dungeons, perma-farming bosses, so you don't see too many out in the regular world and they're thus mostly non-disruptive of normal questing. They are still quite aggravating if you're trying to do a public dungeon though, since those require you kill the boss to get credit. This is being dealt with mind, and the problem seems to be most expansive in low level zones.

Lack of Instancing: This is YMMV I guess - some people hate instancing with the fiery passion of 10,000 suns. I do not understand those people, but they're allowed their opinion. That said: ESO does not instance the vast majority of it's quests. It does use phasing for some, where you'll do something and then get moved to a phase where a change has occurred in the world, and that's pretty cool; but it does end up with some oddities too.

For instance, say you're tasked with killing Major General Jackass in a building, and the quest leading up to this point has been pretty explicit that you're the only chance the city has of repelling Jackass' attack... yet when you enter the building you find 2 other people already fighting him. Then you either have to join in, get credit (and have virtually no fight out of it), or wait for him to respawn. Occasionally some of these bosses award credit for killing them just for being in the area when they're killed too - so you may never get to fight Jackass if those two people kill him and you're close enough.

If it were up to me, these things would be instanced and the difficulty of the instance would be determined by the number of players in the group; but it's not up to me and that's not how it's done.

Veteran Levels: You can read a rather lengthy complaint of mine about what I've heard of the Veteran Level system few posts up from this. That said, I should hasten to add that the regular leveling content is quite good and even if I only ever play three alts to 50, I think it may well be worth it.

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So yeah, that's my summation basically:

I like this game - it's a big pile of good ideas and interesting changes to the regular MMO formula, but it has some rough edges that need to be ironed out. I personally would recommend anyone give it a try, particularly if you like the Elder Scrolls lore at all.

[Avilan the Grey]

Here's my impression as of right now -

Spoilered for length:


Character building is awesome:

Basically, your class is your "super power" essentially - you don't even have to use it if you don't want to, though for obvious reasons, most do. Then you choose weapon or two. You can, at level 15, switch weapons freely, and you get a different set of ability slots for when you switch too - near as I can tell there's no cooldown timer either. You can also wear any type of armor you like - I personally prefer to stick with a single type to minimize skillpoint distribution and maximize the bonuses from that type of armor, but there's nothing that says you can't wear some of each even, it's even beneficial depending on precisely what it is you're trying to accomplish.

Each armor type has a different theme in terms of passives, as well as respectively higher defense:

Light Armor - Improves spellcasting and spell resistance.

Medium Armor - Improves critical chance, sneaking and attack speed.

Heavy Armor - Improves your defenses even further, gives a small bonus to damage as well.

Your race also has passives you can put points into to improve the area that race is naturally or culturally good at - however you don't have to put those points in if you don't want so you can quite happily make a Nord mage or a Wood Elf knight or whatever else you like.

Weapons each have a 'theme' to them as well it seems:

Dual Wield - High damage.

Two-Handed - Crowd Control and Damage.

One-hand and Shield - Tanking and Crowd Control. (I have heard that at present one of it's abilities is very overpowered and so it can basically do everything, but I doubt that'll last long.)

Bow - Ranged damage. (Particularly nice from stealth I should add.)

Destruction Staves - Elemental damage, some range some closer up - which element depends on which type of staff you have, fire, frost or lightning.

Healing Staff - Exactly what it says on the tin. It can do ranged damage too, but that's not it's purpose.

As far as your class goes:

While each class has a general theme, you can quite easily bend that theme to your whim. For instance, if you want to make a Fire Mage, it's entirely possible to use a Dragon Knight with a Fire Destruction Staff and Light Armor to do precisely that. BURN ALL THE THINGS. This despite that Dragon Knight is most often viewed as a basis for melee characters, particularly tanks.

Here's a basic idea of what each class does:

Sorcerer - CC spells, Direct damage spells, pets, health-to-mana swap, self buff

Dragon Knight - Close range fire damage, self and group buffs, self heals

Templar - Ranged damage and debuff, melee damage, self and group buffs and healing (in general). Templar is astoundingly versatile really, even compared to the others.

Nightblade - Melee damage, self buffs, debuffs, health and resource stealing powers, ability to go invisible during combat briefly, special melee sneak attack

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The one negative out of all this is that if you want to play a purely physical character (a traditional warrior or rogue type for instance) you're going to have a tougher time of it.

Either you have to fake it, and only choose visually quieter powers, or go full out on weapon skills, both of which can be fairly restrictive. My recommendation (despite one that I have difficulty following myself) is to simply accept that every character you play is going to use at least some magic. It's just the nature of the beast at present.

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Graphically I think the game looks quite good - in particular I much prefer the faces and hair styles to traditional Bethesda fare. (In regular Elder Scrolls games the first thing I download is almost always a Better Faces or Better Hair pack for characters.) Armor and weapons are generally quite a bit more realistic than in most MMOs, while still retaining some fantasy styling. It's not like WoW for instance where your swords are six inches wide and absolutely covered in random 'stuff', at least not any of the stuff I've seen thus far.

In particular if traditional female 'skimpy armor' annoys you, this game is great in that respect, as very very few armors have any cut-outs in them. (The only ones I'm aware of off the top of my head is the low-level female Wood Elf heavy armor). Everything else looks like reasonable armor.

Customizing your character is fairly nice as well - you can adjust sliders for most of your face and your body, including height.

The only thing that annoys me in that regard is hairstyles - there are a decent number, but I'd have preferred more. Still, they're mostly good, there aren't very many that just make me think "no, would never in a million years use that".

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Combat - the meat of any MMO; and imo ESO does very, very well on this front. You click for a light attack, or hold and release for a heavy attack. (Technically you can just keep holding and it'll do repeated heavy attacks, but I find there are very few situations where I want to do this.) - These are your basic weapon attacks, and they are not an inconsiderable part of your arsenal. They're not like auto-attacks in most games where you want to be using them as little as possible.

That said you've got an array of abilities - up to 5 - chosen from the various skill trees your character has access to. This includes your class, your weapon, even your armor can grant you a skill to put on the bar; there are also skill lines you earn by joining the guilds (Mage, Fighter's and Undaunted at present), a couple other special ones you can earn later on. Class skills, staff skills, and Mage's Guild skills all require magicka, while Fighter's Guild, non-staff weapon skills, and armor skills all use Stamina. I don't remember what the Undaunted take, as I don't group and they're for people who do dungeons, which are generally a group thing.

Anything you put points into is fair game to go on the bar (with the exceptions of weapon skills from a different type of weapon) - but remember you've only got five slots.

You've also got an Ultimate slot. Depending on the ultimate you choose, it can be a really big "OH CRAP" button, or a relatively frequent type of attack, or other things entirely. I only really have experience with the first two varieties however. Ultimates, unlike other skills, run on the Ultimate resource, instead of magicka or stamina.

Actual combat is fast, but not so fast as to make you feel like you missed what happened. Once you get a decent weapon (something around your level and green with an enchant on it) you'll be able to kill things pretty darn quickly. The challenge is mostly in identifying which mob needs to die first in a given group and making sure that they bite it - as well as learning when to block, dodge, or disrupt.

When an enemy 'charges up' with white-gold lines, they're about to hit you with a big physical attack - if you block and have stamina, they'll be recoiled and become stunned, you can then hit them with a heavy attack for extra damage and knock them down. Blocking eats stamina. You can also block other attacks and it's useful to do so at times - but this is sort of the definitive "block now" situation.

When an enemy charges up with red lines, that means you need to disrupt them (block, then press attack, you'll slam them) - then they'll be put in the same state as above. Note that disrupting uses stamina.

Sometimes you'll see a red area highlighted and the enemy doesn't appear to be charging up - in that case just get out of the area and let them do whatever they were doing. You can walk out if you've got time, or double tap to dodge if you don't have much time. Dodging eats stamina.

Some people say combat is too easy - I personally disagree, I think it's quite good where it's at, at least at the levels I've played at. That said, it's not Dark Souls or anything like that either. Usually I only die if I pull too many mobs or make a serious mistake; that said my main is a heavy armor wearing templar with a self heal... so as long as she's got magicka, she doesn't die. My less frequently played stamina-focused Nightblade has proven much more fragile.

Ultimately though I find the combat a lot of fun - and that's the important thing. It's a LOT more interesting than most MMOs.

Questing:

The other major thing in any MMO - Questing in ESO is imo miles above most other MMOs. First off, you'll find very few "Go kill X number of Y critter" quests. They exist, but they aren't at all common. Combat is usually for a reason - you need to acquire an item, a disguise, or even just to get past the people guarding a location. It feels more like D&D in that way, and to me that's good.

The game also has a pleasant number of quests where things actually change as you go. This isn't like most MMOs where after killing 10 Raging Jerks you're said to have saved the town... but you can still see the same battle unfolding right in front of your eyes, forever. This isn't to say every time you do a quest something in the world changes - but it happens often enough that you notice, and it really helps with immersion.
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Crafting

Equipment Crafting -

Crafting is one of the best features ESO has imo, and it has two sides to it.

First off, the practical side:

You learn how to craft primarily by breaking down unwanted items into resources. This is important, because it takes a large chunk of resources to actually craft an item.

Additionally, you learn to give items various traits by Researching those traits - you do this by acquiring a drop with the given trait on the desired type of item (for instance, a Greatsword with the Sharpened trait), and then you research that. Once the research finishes, you'll be able to make greatswords with the sharpened trait - provided you have the materials required of course.

Research times increase based on how many traits you already know for a given type of item, and can get quite lengthy - however you can reduce the time required and unlock additional research slots by spending skill points in the crafting skill of your choice. You also need to invest skill points in order to improve the level of armor you can make (to learn to go from Iron to Steel for instance), and you can also invest in useful but not necessary things like making crafting nodes more visible or having a hireling send you resources each day.

Also note that when you make an item, it's initially "white" quality - ie: bottom of the heap. To improve it, you can use up to 5 crafting items of a corresponding quality to improve that item to that quality. Note that 5 items used = 100% chance to succeed; however these items are relatively uncommon, so early on at least you're going to have to wait a long time to get a full set of crafted green equipment. That's OK actually - white gear will hold you in good stead, though I recommend trying to make a green weapon when you can. (I generally try to upgrade every 4 levels.)

There is however a skill under the crafting lines that lets you increase the chance of success with fewer items, and another line that improves your yield from breaking items down. Both of these are pretty important abilities to have if you're serious about crafting.

So, putting it together - you build your basic item, then you upgrade it, first to green, then to blue, then to purple, and finally to gold. So far I've only made up to green items myself, but I'm only at level 25 with my main.

Finally it should be noted that you have some level of control over what your items look like. Initially you can only craft your race's style of equipment, but as you adventure and check random objects, you'll find Motifs - motifs being equipment styles. So without too much effort your orc can start building wood elf equipment or vice-versa. There are also "Prestige" motifs - Daedric, Primal, Barbaric... might be more; that no race starts out knowing.

Ultimately this lets you dress your character as you wish, if you care about that kind of thing. Needless to say this game has an enormous variety of equipment compared to most MMOs. There are 9 races, each of which have 3 kinds of armor (light, medium, heavy) and each of those has 9 tiers of material used - each tier generally expands on what the previous tier had in terms of looks.

Right now you can't dye armor, but that's something the devs have stated they want to add in the future.

Consumable Crafting -

There are also three types of consumable crafting; and each works differently.

Enchanting - Build enchantments for your items. Note there is one oddity with this system - a lot of enchantments specify Jewelry, but as of right now we can't make Jewelry, and most Jewelry worth wearing is already enchanted. I suspect this will be remedied in the future.

To improve you break down dropped enchantments and build your own.

Alchemy - Make potions. I don't know much about alchemy honestly, I haven't messed with it much. Obviously you can make healing, stamina and magicka potions, but I'm sure there are other varieties as well, given the ridiculous variety of ingredients out there.

Provisioning - Food! Food in ESO gives you one of several kinds of buffs. I haven't messed with this either, for reasons similar to Alchemy - I quite simply do not have the space necessary in my bank to keep the ingredients.

A final note: If you don't care about crafting, you can make do with quest rewards and drops. In fact you can probably get slightly better gear that way if you're not particular on it's visual style or what it's precise abilities are. I prefer to craft because that way I can control the look of what I wear, and give it the precise abilities I want it to have.

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Banks, Auction Houses, Travel and that sort of thing

Okay, in ESO you've essentially got two inventories - your personal inventory (Ie: your bag) - initially this holds 60 items. You can, very cheaply, up this to 70 items, and for an ever-increasing price you can increase your bag commensurately. Ditto your bank size.

Your bank however is special - it's an account-bank rather than a personal bank, and as such increasing it's size is, imo, arguably more important than increasing your personal inventory. Particularly since anything you put in the bank is available to all your characters to craft with.

There is no global auction house. This is very, very important - as of right now today, the only way to trade things on a large scale in the same vein is to join a guild and use the guild auction house. You can have up to 5 guilds, so theoretically you can have a fair number of people to trade with; but I haven't joined any guilds so I have no idea how well that works in practice.

Travel - there's basically two modes of travel: Walking/Mounted and using Waystones.

Walking or mounted are pretty self explanatory, but horses deserve a mention because unlike most games, you can level your horse up. Every 20 hours you can pay 250 gold (a very small sum) to mildly improve one three of your horse's capabilities:

Speed - Exactly what it sounds like. A basic horse has 15% starting speed, so it's not that much faster than walking - however this isn't the no brainer it appears to be. At 20 speed I'm told it becomes leaner and more muscular.

Stamina - Improves the horse's ability to sprint, and how resistant it is to letting you get knocked off. I'm told it gets barding if you reach 20 Stamina. (Your horse is pretty fast when it sprints compared to just at a regular run, so this is not an inconsiderable bonus.)

Capacity - Increases your inventory by one slot per point invested in the horse. At 20 I'm told the horse gains saddlebags.

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I personally have been going for Capacity so far - inventory space is often at a premium, and due to Waystones, speed of travel is often not an issue. Honestly I like the slower pace since it lets me see little events I might have missed in the world, spot crafting materials and generally enjoy the scenery. That said, horses are customizable so you can do whatever you like, just understand that it'll take awhile to max out a horse.

I should also mention that there are currently 5 kinds of horse:

Imperial Horse - You get this from the Imperial Edition of the game; it lets you buy a basic horse for 1 gold. It's also a spiffy white horse, so if you want to be a paladin, it's a nice choice.

Common Horse - The normal 'basic' horse - 17,000 gold instead of 1. However the Imperial horse cost you 20 bucks in real life, so... fair is fair.

Then there are three more advanced horses, each selling for 42,000 gold each.

Draft Horse - Extra capacity and stamina.

Gaited Horse - Even more extra stamina compared to the Draft Horse, but no extra capacity.

Light Horse - Extra speed and stamina.

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My understanding is that the 42k horses are flatly superior to the 2 "basic" horses; and that in pure min-max terms, one shouldn't invest any gold in the basic horses. Horses max out at level 50, they gain one level every time you feed them. The 42k horses therefore have 20 free levels each, with the same ability to grow as the basic horses.

That said, I'm quite content with my Imperial horse and have been feeding it each day. Frankly, 250 gold a day is peanuts, even if it ends up being a waste, it's not a significant one, and the extra carrying capacity in the meantime let's me stay in the field longer and thus nab more loot. So make of that what you will.

----

The bad stuff:

While up till now this has been mostly a glowing review with a side of "how to play" (I feel that if I explain a system, you can decide for yourself if it appeals) - there are some serious problems in ESO and I'd be remiss if I didn't address them.

Bugs: The game has a lot of these. Some of the worst seem to have been squashed, thankfully, but even as recently as a couple days ago a level 25 Mage's Guild quest was incapable of being completed due to a bug. Basically, if you buy the game now you just have to accept you will eventually run into at least a few. Most will be very minor, but once in awhile they could be showstopping. In my experience, the higher you get, the worse it is in this regard. So if you play it slow, you'll be fine, but if you like to rocket up to the top, you may have a problem.

Bots: There have been a LOT of bots in ESO. Most are confined to the public dungeons, perma-farming bosses, so you don't see too many out in the regular world and they're thus mostly non-disruptive of normal questing. They are still quite aggravating if you're trying to do a public dungeon though, since those require you kill the boss to get credit. This is being dealt with mind, and the problem seems to be most expansive in low level zones.

Lack of Instancing: This is YMMV I guess - some people hate instancing with the fiery passion of 10,000 suns. I do not understand those people, but they're allowed their opinion. That said: ESO does not instance the vast majority of it's quests. It does use phasing for some, where you'll do something and then get moved to a phase where a change has occurred in the world, and that's pretty cool; but it does end up with some oddities too.

For instance, say you're tasked with killing Major General Jackass in a building, and the quest leading up to this point has been pretty explicit that you're the only chance the city has of repelling Jackass' attack... yet when you enter the building you find 2 other people already fighting him. Then you either have to join in, get credit (and have virtually no fight out of it), or wait for him to respawn. Occasionally some of these bosses award credit for killing them just for being in the area when they're killed too - so you may never get to fight Jackass if those two people kill him and you're close enough.

If it were up to me, these things would be instanced and the difficulty of the instance would be determined by the number of players in the group; but it's not up to me and that's not how it's done.

Veteran Levels: You can read a rather lengthy complaint of mine about what I've heard of the Veteran Level system few posts up from this. That said, I should hasten to add that the regular leveling content is quite good and even if I only ever play three alts to 50, I think it may well be worth it.

======

So yeah, that's my summation basically:

I like this game - it's a big pile of good ideas and interesting changes to the regular MMO formula, but it has some rough edges that need to be ironed out. I personally would recommend anyone give it a try, particularly if you like the Elder Scrolls lore at all.

As I suspected they have changed too much compared to TES for me to be interested (the high price and other people aside). The idea that "you just use something and get better at it as you do" seems ideal for MMO's, but 0it is hard to implement?

You summary statement seems to be similar to the review in Swedish PC gamer I read yesterday: "A lot of problems but a solid foundation to build a great game on, eventually".

[Math_Mage]

Thanks for the detailed review. The only MMOs I've played are Vindictus and LoL (and LoL hardly counts), so one particular thing I was wondering about is what the lore-intensive side of the MMO is like.

[Animastryfe]

Here's my impression as of right now -



This is one thorough review. Zenimax just did an "ask us anything" on Reddit, of which the transcript and summary can be found here (http://dulfy.net/2014/05/01/eso-may-1-reddit-ama-transcript/). I am level 43.5, and I will almost certainly continue playing.

[sihnfahl]

As I suspected they have changed too much compared to TES for me to be interested (the high price and other people aside). The idea that "you just use something and get better at it as you do" seems ideal for MMO's, but 0it is hard to implement?
They implemented it well, and you don't end up with this (http://twicsy.com/i/u8oNeb) situation.

Heck, as long as you have the skill points, you can pretty much pick up any crafting skill / combat skill line and work them up, but your actual level doesn't change, so you don't outlevel quests or mobs in the region you're in.

[Calemyr]

I've actually found the game to have a lot of TES lore. Playing the Dominion side I'm learning a great deal about the Bosmer, about why they're infamous as cannibals and the Green Pact and the Silvenar and the Green Lady. The Daedric Princes play a much more active role in ESO rather than the single-quest appearance in the single player games - besides the whole game being a scheme by Molag Bal, I've seen a good bit of Hircine and Sheogorath, and talking with Azura about a job to free an priestess of hers. Also, it was cool hearing a dunmer Ordinator speaking reverentially about Amalexia. And honestly, one of the coolest parts of the game is touring provinces I've never visited in the single-player games - and returning to those I've explored long ago.

The game is not as polished as WoW but adds a lot of great ideas to the mmo formula. Active combat, "realistic" weapons and armor design, extraordinarily open skill list, and a robust crafting system.

I am not a big MMO guy. I'm far too capricious, always led to play new games or (best yet) heavily modable games where the experience can be new each and every time. The only MMO I've ever really gotten into before was Ultima Online, where I could make a hero on my own terms. But I am also a sucker for the Elder Scrolls lore and this game provides a surprisingly good story, an excellent and diverse landscape, and a degree of customization I haven't seen in a MMO since UO took it's glorious swan dive.


As I suspected they have changed too much compared to TES for me to be interested (the high price and other people aside). The idea that "you just use something and get better at it as you do" seems ideal for MMO's, but 0it is hard to implement?

The way they do it is by using the standard XP model (with quests being the primary source). The XP you earn is applied to your level, but also the skills you have active: the armor types you have equipped, the weapon configuration you're using, and the attack skills you have equipped. Craft skills are completely "learn by doing" - well, actually, they'd be best described as "learn from others" as you get far more crafting experience dismantling someone else's work than you do from crafting/dismantling your own. Guild and world skill lines are improved by non-standard means: Fighter's guild by killing undead and daedra, mage's guild by collecting lore books, soul magic (soul trap) by doing main quests missions, and werewolves by killing things while transformed.

Active skills morph once reach rank 5 and can change very drastically: a Templar skill that originally can increase the health and stamina regen of yourself and your allies can become an ability that siphons stamina and health from corpses around you. Another ability that fires like a devastating mortar-like ball of fire can morph into a point-blank explosion of light. Again, skills only improve if you gain experience while they are on your active hot bar.

Oh, and there's also books that automatically level up skill trees.

[sihnfahl]

Oh, and there's also books that automatically level up skill trees.
Up to a certain point. I hit every bookshelf, and I figure you max out at about 5 skillups just from books.

[Calemyr]

Up to a certain point. I hit every bookshelf, and I figure you max out at about 5 skillups just from books.

I figured it was like mage's guild lore books: there are several copies of each, but you only get credit from each book once.

[Sylthia]

I kinda wish there was a skill to make lock picking easier. Maybe the Thieves' Guild will add that.

[sihnfahl]

I kinda wish there was a skill to make lock picking easier. Maybe the Thieves' Guild will add that.
Maybe, but ... lockpicking really isn't that hard. There are only four potential positions. Once you get the pinning down, it's a snap. But not for your lockpicks.


I figured it was like mage's guild lore books: there are several copies of each, but you only get credit from each book once.
Mage's Guild - one copy of a book in the entire world.

Skill books - multiple copies, only one benefit.

[Calemyr]

Maybe, but ... lockpicking really isn't that hard. There are only four potential positions. Once you get the pinning down, it's a snap. But not for your lockpicks.


Mage's Guild - one copy of a book in the entire world.

Skill books - multiple copies, only one benefit.

No, one thing I do know for certain is that there are multiple copies of most lore books. I've got a mod that adds lore books to the map, and there's usually about three of a kind in a zone. Group dungeon books being an exception, of course.

[Sylthia]

I guess we get a free 5 days as an apology for the numerous bugs from the first month. That's nice, I suppose.

I'm level 25 now and just hit Greenshade. I've done every quest and all the dungeons so far and it seems like all the quests are level 25 or 26. This game is seemingly open, but this fact means that it's actually pretty linear. You're pretty much confined to one area and have to complete all the quests there, or the mobs will outright murder you. I wish I could explore a bit less fearfully.

[mistformsquirrl]

Hrm... so while working on yet another character, I came across an idea that stems to a degree from Skyrim...

See, one of my favorite Skyrim characters was a battle-mage, she fought with a sword in one hand and used the other for spellcasting. Naturally this style of combat grew on me since I really enjoyed that character.

ESO doesn't really do the whole 'fight with one hand cast with another' thing - understandable given the significant differences in gameplay... but I was thinking, they could turn this kind of thing into a weapon style further down the road, couldn't they?

Example: Create a series of off-hand items - orbs, tomes, goblets, skulls... etc... objects of power essentially, maybe each race could specialize in a given visual type, and the higher tiers simply get more involved with that type. (Ex: Orcs get skulls. You start out just carrying a skull. Later the eyes start to glow, and even later there's a glowing aura around the skull - stuff like that.)

When using one of those in your off-hand instead of a shield, you use the Sword and Spell style instead of One-hand and Shield. That style could offer 2-3 Stamina based attacks, and then to change things up, a couple Magicka based abilities a well. You could consider it an intermediary between staves and conventional weapons. When you hold block, maybe (just for visual purposes) throw up something that looks like the Ward spells from Skyrim.

It's just an idea really, but I think it'd be kinda fun. Granted I have like a bazillion different weapon styles I'd like to see down the road, this is just the one that's most prominent in my thinking at present.

[Sylthia]

I might hold off until level 50 to get the rest of the Cyrodiil Sky Shards, unless I can find another team to hunt them. Having to respawn way at the entry point and not being able to fast travel are a big pain in the tail.