Best Prestige class you can come up with.

[atemu1234]

Title says it all. What prestige class, on its own, is most broken in your opinions? Please also list the books they originate from.

[OldTrees1]

Illithid Savant (Savage Species)
Oh some other prestige class is broken? Let me take a look... nom nom. Now I am broken.

Also there is the cheese of using recursion for infinite class features.

[Forrestfire]

Illithid Savant, Beholder Mage, Dweomerkeeper?

[Kazudo]

I tend to think Ur-Priest, but only because there's no arcane equivalent.

[Ketiara]

im sure its not THAT broken, but Spelldancer (http://dndtools.eu/classes/spelldancer/) is pretty easy to make very high op. So with the right dips it can become a very tough gish.

[HaikenEdge]

Illithid Savant, since it can be read to apply to every brain eaten, and not just the once for the class features.

[sonofzeal]

Srsly? No Planar Sheppard mention?

[Seerow]

im sure its not THAT broken, but Spelldancer (http://dndtools.eu/classes/spelldancer/) is pretty easy to make very high op. So with the right dips it can become a very tough gish.

Wow I've never seen this class before. Yeah, just get something immune to constitution damage + fatigue, and spelldance to persist every buff spell in your spellbook.

[Alex12]

Tainted Scholar. It's good if you're alive. It's fantastic if you're undead, and thus can completely ignore every downside.

[Seer_of_Heart]

I tend to think Ur-Priest, but only because there's no arcane equivalent.
Beholder mage? It's honestly easier to qualify for in my opinion.

[Ketiara]

Srsly? No Planar Sheppard mention?

yea you are right ;D

http://dndtools.eu/classes/planar-shepherd/

It has to be linked inhere when someone asks for broken :D

[Rubik]

Illithid Savant (Savage Species)
Oh some other prestige class is broken? Let me take a look... nom nom. Now I am broken.Definitely this, hands-down. A build of mine using this is only one step below Pun Pun (and that's because I've explicitly avoided sarrukhs during the build -- I could Pun Pun it up if I wanted to very, very easily; the build is basically omnipotent and selectively omniscient, and the only reason it's not on Pun Pun's level is because of a matter of degree more than anything). The only problem is that you only get a handful of each type of feature, but even that goes out the window when you combine it with legacy champion for additional progression.


Also there is the cheese of using recursion for infinite class features.Since "acquire class feature" is worded such that each time you gain it you only gain one class feature (rather than as a progression), you can only gain one use of "acquire class feature" each time you eat an illithid savant's brain. So, this doesn't work.

However! Eschewed Materials Ice Assassin + Fusion + Astral Seed + seppuku does work. Just create an ice assassin of an illithid savant with the abilities you want, and you've got it.


Srsly? No Planar Sheppard mention?Probably because "planar sheppard" doesn't exist.

[NoACWarrior]

Best for low level arcane casters
Anima mage - you don't even have to have a single binder level (so I'm told), you enter at 4th level, and you can get free metamagic at higher levels. Its very strong at earlier levels.

Best for survival buffers
War Weaver - turn touch buff spells into ranged multi target touch buff spells, talk about saving on the spell uses. Its strong in survival style campaigns but tapers off rapidly in higher levels.

Best for Weapon maxers
Kensai - turn any weapon you are proficient in and have weapon focus into a magical weapon with special abilities. Use greater magic weapon on it after applying the special abilties. This class ability may be one of two major class abilities - but it is one of the best martial PrCs out there that can break the +5 threshold by itself by 10-12th levels. But no, a martial class does not rise above T4 just because he / she is taking this PrC.

[Story]

You can technically enter Anima Mage without any Binder levels, but there is little reason why you would want to. It requires you to burn 2 extra feats and you can't actually use any of the class features.

[CIDE]

Since "acquire class feature" is worded such that each time you gain it you only gain one class feature (rather than as a progression), you can only gain one use of "acquire class feature" each time you eat an illithid savant's brain. So, this doesn't work.

However! Eschewed Materials Ice Assassin + Fusion + Astral Seed + seppuku does work. Just create an ice assassin of an illithid savant with the abilities you want, and you've got it.
.


I'll say this now that the misreading of both this class and Warshaper instantly put me into knee-jerk reaction mode but I can't help myself. I just have to point out that the class feature doesn't actually say that.



Acquire Class Feature (Ex): At 3rd level, an illithid savant permanently gains one class feature of a consumed brain's owner, as a character of that creature's level in that class. If the former character was a spellcaster, the illithid savant is able to cast one spell of each level available to the character (if the victim was a wizard, the mind flayer must still consult a spellbook or learn from scrolls), as well as any bonus spells provideded by the illithid savant's ability scores. If the illithid savant already has spellcasting levels, these spells are in addition to those granted by the illithid savant's spellcasting class levels.
At 7th level and again at 10th level, the illithid savant can gain another class feature from a consumed brain.

It doesn't say anything about limited to one brain ever. I can post the other class features of the savant if needed. I don't see why people ever, ever, ever need to go out and eat another illithid savant's brain to get more uses out of the "acquire" line of features when it NEVER limits you in how many brains you can eat.

Sure, you can only get a total of 3 class features from any given brain but really...do you actually need more? Especially when you can just go eat another Wizard if there's one or two features you really want instead of having to go find another savant.

[Rubik]

I'll say this now that the misreading of both this class and Warshaper instantly put me into knee-jerk reaction mode but I can't help myself. I just have to point out that the class feature doesn't actually say that.

Acquire Class Feature (Ex): At 3rd level, an illithid savant permanently gains one class feature of a consumed brain's owner, as a character of that creature's level in that class. If the former character was a spellcaster, the illithid savant is able to cast one spell of each level available to the character (if the victim was a wizard, the mind flayer must still consult a spellbook or learn from scrolls), as well as any bonus spells provideded by the illithid savant's ability scores. If the illithid savant already has spellcasting levels, these spells are in addition to those granted by the illithid savant's spellcasting class levels.
At 7th level and again at 10th level, the illithid savant can gain another class feature from a consumed brain.


It doesn't say anything about limited to one brain ever. I can post the other class features of the savant if needed. I don't see why people ever, ever, ever need to go out and eat another illithid savant's brain to get more uses out of the "acquire" line of features when it NEVER limits you in how many brains you can eat.

Sure, you can only get a total of 3 class features from any given brain but really...do you actually need more? Especially when you can just go eat another Wizard if there's one or two features you really want instead of having to go find another savant.I've...um...never interpreted it THAT way before. So, for each time you gain "acquire X" from illithid savant, and you eat a brain -- any and every brain you eat, from then on out -- you permanently gain abilities of your choice? Wow. It's even worse better than I thought.

[HaikenEdge]

I've...um...never interpreted it THAT way before. So, for each time you gain "acquire X" from illithid savant, and you eat a brain -- any and every brain you eat, from then on out -- you permanently gain abilities of your choice? Wow. It's even worse better than I thought.

I've actually seen several people interpret it this way before, and I think the way the language is written allows it to be interpreted either way; I'm fairly certainly that the intended meaning was the illithid savant only gets the ability once per class feature, but the language itself doesn't actually specify this.

[Werephilosopher]

The most broken prc I can think of comes from the abomination that is the Book of Erotic Fantasy. Somehow, amidst all the bile in that book, they put in something that actually isn't squickish, and wouldn't be out-of-place in a WOTC publication. The Metaphysical Spellshaper, a 3-level prc that can be entered by level 6, gets:

A Divine Metamagic-esque ability to spontaneously apply metamagic to spells in exchange for one point of ability damage per metamagic cost. Healing magic requires a caster level check to heal this damage, but Naberius doesn't. And unlike DMM, this works on arcane spells too.
A one-level reduction of the final spell-level slot after applying metamagic to a spell.
Full casting.
A bonus metamagic feat.

It's practically Incantatrix in a can.


I tend to think Ur-Priest, but only because there's no arcane equivalent.

Actually, there's the Shadow Templar from a Dark Sun 3.5 update which gives 9th-level arcane spells in 10 class levels. Sure, it's technically Dark Sun-specific, but it's just like using Incantatrix or Dweomerkeeper outside FR, or Planar Shepherd outside Eberron. Just tweak the fluff a little.

[Rubik]

Actually, there's the Shadow Templar from a Dark Sun 3.5 update which gives 9th-level arcane spells in 10 class levels. Sure, it's technically Dark Sun-specific, but it's just like using Incantatrix or Dweomerkeeper outside FR, or Planar Shepherd outside Eberron. Just tweak the fluff a little.There's also sublime chord and beholder mage, each of which also grants fast-access casting.

[Haldir]

Sublime Chord. High level spell access is broken and this gives you high level spell access off of the best list.

[Waker]

Force Missile Mage. They take one of the best spells in the game, the Magic Missile, and make it even better. Extra missiles per spell, dealing energy damage and overcoming SR? Thank you sir, may I have another?

More seriously, the crazier classes are in no particular order: Illithid Savant, Tainted Scholar, Beholder Mage, Planar Shepard, Incantrix. Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is also rather good from what I've heard, even though it doesn't get so much attention compared to others. Recaster is also decent.

[Werephilosopher]

Psions get great stuff from Anarchic Initiate (CPsi) and Thrallherd. Sneaks have Telflammar Shadowlord and Crinti Shadow Marauder for shadow pounce. Archmage is great if you use the 3.0 version. Even more delicious brokenness for all kinds of characters can be had with dips- Mindbender for telepathy, Sonokineticist (Pyrokineticist online variant) for sonic attacks, Soul Eater from BoVD for energy draining, Shadow Adept from FR for a cluster of illusionist-friendly feats...

[Rubik]

Psions get great stuff from Anarchic Initiate (CPsi) and Thrallherd.Thrallherd is definitely up there, as it is superior to the Leadership feat (which is, itself, more breakable than most whole classes), especially if you're willing and able to use the resources it gives you intelligently. The class doesn't stack with Leadership, but it DOES stack with Undead Leadership, and if thrallherd (or Undead Leadership) counts as Leadership for prereq purposes, it's made to order for some insanely powerful feat chains. Not to mention the fact that the benefits for Charm and Domination effects are, to put it scientifically, utterly nuts.

[Werephilosopher]

Thrallherd is definitely up there, as it is superior to the Leadership feat (which is, itself, more breakable than most whole classes), especially if you're willing and able to use the resources it gives you intelligently. The class doesn't stack with Leadership, but it DOES stack with Undead Leadership, and if thrallherd (or Undead Leadership) counts as Leadership for prereq purposes, it's made to order for some insanely powerful feat chains. Not to mention the fact that the benefits for Charm and Domination effects are, to put it scientifically, utterly nuts.

Then add on Legendary Leader for even more shenanigans :smallbiggrin:

[OldTrees1]

Since "acquire class feature" is worded such that each time you gain it you only gain one class feature (rather than as a progression), you can only gain one use of "acquire class feature" each time you eat an illithid savant's brain. So, this doesn't work.

However! Eschewed Materials Ice Assassin + Fusion + Astral Seed + seppuku does work. Just create an ice assassin of an illithid savant with the abilities you want, and you've got it.


Acquire Class Feature (Ex): At 3rd level, an illithid savant permanently gains one class feature of a consumed brain's owner, as a character of that creature's level in that class.

Acquire Class Feature is lets you gain 1 class feature including the progression to that level. (Example: Eating a 5th level Rogue => +3d6 Sneak Attack not +1d6 Sneak Attack)


Acquire Class Feature (Ex): The epic illithid savant can gain one additional class feature from a consumed brain for every three levels gained after 10th.

Acquire Class Feature is a class feature with a progression

So I think RAW allows the recursion for infinite class features regardless of its imbalance.

[CIDE]

I've...um...never interpreted it THAT way before. So, for each time you gain "acquire X" from illithid savant, and you eat a brain -- any and every brain you eat, from then on out -- you permanently gain abilities of your choice? Wow. It's even worse better than I thought.


Mostly the way I read it. Or at least the way I saw RAW there.


I've actually seen several people interpret it this way before, and I think the way the language is written allows it to be interpreted either way; I'm fairly certainly that the intended meaning was the illithid savant only gets the ability once per class feature, but the language itself doesn't actually specify this.

Well, the way I and he mentioned didn't cover anything about taking more than one of the same class feature. The wizard was a horrible example since it only has a few class features so we'll just say...Monk.

Eat one monk and choose AC bonus, unarmed strike, and flurry all at the level of the monk eaten. Find monk number 2 and get fast movement, evasion, and ki strike. All assuming a level 10 IS.


But my primary point was that at no point does the class say you're limited to just one use of the "acquire X" ability; just that you can only choose three class featuers total (by level 10) per brain eaten.


Acquire Class Feature is lets you gain 1 class feature including the progression to that level. (Example: Eating a 5th level Rogue => +3d6 Sneak Attack not +1d6 Sneak Attack)



Acquire Class Feature is a class feature with a progression

So I think RAW allows the recursion for infinite class features regardless of its imbalance.


Pretty much this. Though, I forgot (or purposely excluded) epic IS stuff.