Knowledge of Electricity?

[Haldir]

Which Knowledge skill would my fellow GiTPDM's say governs knowledge of electricity and it's functions?

My initial instinct is Knowledge (Nature), but my knowledge of history might conclude me to believe Craft:(Alchemy). Though, in my humble opinion, the line between those two is pretty damned arbitrary. Living knowledge of nature has always been exploited in whatever ways were possible, but without a pretty healthy dose of K:(History) and K:(Mathematics) -is mathematics under K:(Engineering)?- you can't really turn K:(Nature) into Craft:(alch.).

Or should I just say screw it all and go with K:(Arcana) and completely screw the non-casters again?

As you can see, my thoughts are all over the place. Opinions welcome, this is not for a game, but a thought exercise.

[NoACWarrior]

Any knowledge leading to the concept of electricity would apply, so long as the use of electricity is within the knowleges' scope.

Take for instance call lighting a divine spell - knowledge arcana couldn't tell you much about that.

What about mundane electricity - knowledge nature.

Mechanically created electricity - knowledge engineering or alchemy (especially if alchemy created the electricity).

[Flickerdart]

I'd let people use Architecture & Engineering, but the extent of knowledge about electricity available to your average pseudo-Renaissance D&D setting would be quite small.

[Spore]

Most definitely Know (Engineering). The point isn't that you want to WATCH eletricity but build machines that can harness it's power.

[NoACWarrior]

Most definitely Know (Engineering). The point isn't that you want to WATCH eletricity but build machines that can harness it's power.

The building part would be craft or profession.

But that would be cool - Profession Electronics crafter.

[VoxRationis]

I'd let people use Architecture & Engineering, but the extent of knowledge about electricity available to your average pseudo-Renaissance D&D setting would be quite small.

Small to basically nonexistent. People hadn't systematically proved that lightning was even the same thing as electricity until Benjamin Franklin's famous key-on-a-kite experiment in our world. The word electricity comes from the Greek for amber, and referred to the static cling you get when you rub a piece of amber with a cloth.
So in a D&D world, knowledge of electricity would come down to it being two separate things. The first is a powerful kind of attack used by wizards and storm gods (probably under knowledge (arcana) or something); the second is a practically useless phenomenon only really known by people with too much time on their hands (also probably under knowledge (arcana), or maybe (nature); "engineering" means engineering in the sense of "Roman engineers built aqueducts bringing water from the mountains to the city of Rome").
Note that both forms, physically, are static rather than current electricity. Things like conductors wouldn't be well-known, or the interaction between electricity and magnetism.
Of course, this depends on your setting. But you general, High Middle Ages to Renaissance-type world wouldn't really know much of anything about the concept.

[Haldir]

Given the access to test the effect thoroughly, I don't think it would take an intelligent race long to figure out its effects. Spells provide that access in a way that Renaissance alchemy could not yet produce.

Volta produced the first viable battery, but we are pretty sure rudimentary electrochemical reactions were produced in ancient Iraq. Volta had the benefit of purified elements. In game terms, his Craft(Alchemy) and access to Craft (Metalworking) were much higher than the ancients.

In D&D, I can take a feat that allows me to generate a burst of electricity every 6 seconds, so long as I have an electricity spell prepared. These people have ample opportunity to discover electromagnetic waves and current formulas an incomprehensible amount of time sooner than Volta or Hertz.

It is no good to cherry pick a time in history and relate everything into the game on that, because it's not even going to have the pretense of being organic.

[Slipperychicken]

Knowledge(The Planes) covers both elementals (including electricity elementals), and the quasi-elemental plane of lightning (as described in Manual of the Planes). I'd say that's a good fit.

[CIDE]

It's not unheard of for more than one knowledge type to be used for a single topic with different levels of DC checks.

[VoxRationis]

Given the access to test the effect thoroughly, I don't think it would take an intelligent race long to figure out its effects. Spells provide that access in a way that Renaissance alchemy could not yet produce.

Volta produced the first viable battery, but we are pretty sure rudimentary electrochemical reactions were produced in ancient Iraq. Volta had the benefit of purified elements. In game terms, his Craft(Alchemy) and access to Craft (Metalworking) were much higher than the ancients.

In D&D, I can take a feat that allows me to generate a burst of electricity every 6 seconds, so long as I have an electricity spell prepared. These people have ample opportunity to discover electromagnetic waves and current formulas an incomprehensible amount of time sooner than Volta or Hertz.

It is no good to cherry pick a time in history and relate everything into the game on that, because it's not even going to have the pretense of being organic.

A) It's not "cherry picked," it's the basic assumption of a setting featuring full plate and swords as the primary top-line armaments. I mean, you could go earlier, based on the lack of gunpowder, but the Renaissance is the late edge of what is assumed by the PHB. Don't bring up Eberron; that's one campaign setting, and differs from the norm in several ways.
B) The Baghdad Battery interpretation is not a "pretty sure" thing. There are bones of contention about that, if I recall correctly.
C) You are correct in that having the ability to produce electricity does imply the ability to put work into understanding it. However, somewhat pedantically, this is different from electromagnetic waves.
D) Spells can provide bursts of lightning, but as I mentioned before, this isn't too different from the static sparks and charges that a rod of amber (i.e., pre-Renaissance technology) can provide, simply more powerful.

[Haldir]

More powerful current means stronger electromagnetic waves and more conductivity from less refined materials, meaning they need less background prep to get the same information out of it.

Your specific inclusion of a setting while condoning an assumed setting is slightly amusing to me. I'd rather not limit our construction of the rules based on what one DM may or may not perceive as the norm.

[VoxRationis]

There are a huge number of assumptions about the setting of the default D&D setting; Rich Burlew himself went through a number of them in the start of his "The New World" articles.
Other common assumptions include that there are no flash drives, for instance, in the setting. There are no rules for them, there are no prices for them. Presumably, you could say, as a DM that in your setting, the gnomes invented the flash drive (either as we have it or using very fine-scale [I]thunderhead[I] traps), but that's not the default assumption. It is assumed that there are elves and dwarves in the setting, but not Vssey and Goa'uld, for another example. That you challenge that there is an underlying "assumed setting" is amusing. Obviously, the setting is kind of hazy, for obvious reasons, but it's there.
Edit: That said, it's also off-topic. Let's not get into an argument about it.

[VoxRationis]

More powerful current means stronger electromagnetic waves and more conductivity from less refined materials, meaning they need less background prep to get the same information out of it.


Well, for one thing, I'm not sure if there aren't any, but most of the electric spells and effects in D&D aren't current electricity. They're static electricity.
Secondly, simply increasing the power of the phenomenon doesn't necessarily increase how well it can be studied. Take for instance, the blinding light of a flashbang. Studying optics would be a lot harder if that were your light source, rather than a candle flame. Similarly, the tendency of most electric spells to set things on fire, kill lab assistants, scorch or otherwise destroy delicate equipment, etc. might make it difficult to study electricity from that source.
Thirdly, most people capable of casting spells, save for druids, have plenty of access to enough conductive copper and silver that the use of them in experiments isn't an issue.

[Curmudgeon]

In D&D, electricity is an energy damage type. This is produced mostly by magic, but there isn't any Knowledge skill related to spells. Naturally occurring electricity damage (lightning, electric eels) is covered by Knowledge (nature).

[Deophaun]

Which Knowledge skill would my fellow GiTPDM's say governs knowledge of electricity and it's functions?
I'd say none, because in my experience down that path lies quantum singularities that devour entire campaigns.

Think of it as The Slayers handled explosives (bombs and guns): Sure, they knew those things existed, but as soon as it was realized how limited those technologies were compared with magic, no one bothered. So people don't craft motors powered by magically-generated electricity. Instead, they use animate object.

Probably not the answer you're looking for, but the fact that the Knowledge skills are not listed to cover things like biology, chemistry, physics and the like says that it's not part of the setting's assumptions.

[ericgrau]

To make electrical devices absolutely engineering. Generators, motors, light bulbs, batteries, etc. Even principles of voltage, magnetism and so on. Lightning bolts could be nature, but this instead tells you where and how often they strike and how much damage they do. Not voltage or how to power a device with it (that's engineering). Spell energy could be spellcraft (the spells themselves) or arcana (magical devices and phenomena).

[VoxRationis]

To make electrical devices absolutely engineering. Generators, motors, light bulbs, batteries, etc. Even principles of voltage, magnetism and so on. Lightning bolts could be nature, but this instead tells you where and how often they strike and how much damage they do. Not voltage or how to power a device with it (that's engineering). Spell energy could be spellcraft (the spells themselves) or arcana (magical devices and phenomena).

I agree that the construction of electrical devices requires engineering skills as we know them. But the engineering part of the Knowledge skill is bundled with architecture for a reason, and all of the PHB uses relate to architecture, so I'm arguing that the word "engineering" in this context doesn't actually encompass all the things we in the modern day label with it. Given the general lack of electrical devices in the PHB, DMG, etc., I would argue that the practical applications of electricity are few enough that it would fall under Nature or perhaps the "ancient mysteries" part of Arcana.

[Tohsaka Rin]

I'm suddenly reminded of a sci-fi novel (I cannot for the life of me remember the title) where plenty of inter-galactic races have space travel, anti-grav, and FTL... But the idea of an internal-combustion engine, and weapons beyond black powder are foreign to them.

Why would you need to know how to make an engine for a car, when you can just make a flying carpet? Or an airship? Why make electric lamps, when an everburning torch takes you a DAY to craft, and lasts forever?

With 18+ Int, I'm sure most dedicated casters are Steven Hawking or better in terms of smarts, but building the infrastructure needed for electrical engineering is a moot point for them. Why bother? Magic serves all their needs, and works not only better, but more efficiently.

I'm sure that any Wizard worth his salt knows more about the fundamental nature of electricity better than most of us here (barring the electrical engineers, I know you guys exist) and can probably take 10 on any given check to rattle off a textbook's worth of information on any given subject.

"Certainly, I could make an electric lamp large enough to shine on your castle. Why would I bother? Here's a dozen everburning torches: They won't burn out, they don't require power, they don't overheat if you use them for too long. That'll be two-thousand gold. Eight hundred extra for the consultation."