Vow of Silence, what should the benefit be?

[Pinkie Pyro]

After a Recent death, one of my players has decided he wanted to make a build based off link from legend of zelda.

After searching online, we were surprised to see no "vow of silence" feat with all the other vows in the book of exalted deeds.

I'm not entirely sure what to have the bonus, though, perhaps a +4 to saving throws VS sonic or sound dependent spells?

[eggynack]

It might be worth suggesting buoman (PlH, 9) to him. It's a race that has a vow of silence as one of its traits.

[Pinkie Pyro]

It might be worth suggesting buoman (PlH, 9) to him. It's a race that has a vow of silence as one of its traits.

reading through it, I don't see any bonus to the vow of silence from them, only a negative effect for speaking, and wisdom doesn't help his build at all.

[Gygaxgard]

VOW OF SILENCE [EXALTED]: Being his motivation religion, self-punishment or simply discipline, the character has committed to silence and does not emit any vocal sounds of any description.
Prerequisites: Ability to prepare spells, Silent Spell feat, vocal organs must be in good health.
Benefit: The Character may cast spell and spell-like abilities as if they were modified by the Silent Spell feat, without using a higher level spell slot to prepare them. The character has learned to be silent during his actions, he gains a +2 discipline bonus to Stealth.
Special: If the character willingly or unwillingly emits a vocal sound, being speech, grunting, crying, yelling or any type of exclamation, he loses he benefit of this feat and must be silent for a year and a day before regaining its benefits. If the character vocal apparatus is damaged against his will while he is complying with the vow, the benefits endure.

What do you think?

[Seto]

VOW OF SILENCE [EXALTED]: Being his motivation religion, self-punishment or simply discipline, the character has committed to silence and does not emit any vocal sounds of any description.
Prerequisites: Ability to prepare spells, Silent Spell feat, vocal organs must be in good health.
Benefit: The Character may cast spell and spell-like abilities as if they were modified by the Silent Spell feat, without using a higher level spell slot to prepare them. The character has learned to be silent during his actions, he gains a +2 discipline bonus to Stealth.
Special: If the character willingly or unwillingly emits a vocal sound, being speech, grunting, crying, yelling or any type of exclamation, he loses he benefit of this feat and must be silent for a year and a day before regaining its benefits. If the character vocal apparatus is damaged against his will while he is complying with the vow, the benefits endure.

What do you think?

It's no good to a martial character like Link would be, and the "year and a day" clause is much too harsh (an Atonement or similar effect should suffice).

[Telonius]

Vows of silence are generally supposed to put the person in a perceptive, open-minded state - you can't hear when you're talking, basically. I'd say it ought to give bonuses to Listen, possibly Spot or Sense Motive as well. Maybe give it something really cool like Tremorsense.

[Inevitability]

How about a perfection bonus to Wisdom?

[Ashtagon]

Any (probably not all; find your preferred balance point) of the following would be thematically appropriate:

Tremorsense
Bonus on saves vs. sound-based effects (generally anything with sonic or language-dependent descriptors)
Bonus to Listen checks
Immunity to deafness
sonic energy resistance
the ability to pick out familiar voices over the sound of a storm

However, I'd be reluctant to allow a vow of silence in my campaigns. For me, a key part of role-playing involves communication, and with a character who is not talking, ever, that becomes non-trivial. I'd want the player to provide a convincing explanation of how he will be able to negotiate this without breaking the spirit of the vow of silence before I'd allow this.

[Seto]

Vows of silence are generally supposed to put the person in a perceptive, open-minded state - you can't hear when you're talking, basically. I'd say it ought to give bonuses to Listen, possibly Spot or Sense Motive as well. Maybe give it something really cool like Tremorsense.

You know, that sounds really cool. I can totally imagine it.
As the hooded stranger finishes laying down the conditions of his proposal, all eyes turn to the silent elven warrior who has been intently listening in the back. As she slowly shakes her head in sign of approval, the party lets out a collective relief sigh. The quest-giver can be trusted, to an extent.

Although frustrating when you're aware of a danger and you have to explain it to the party, fast. But describing your character gesturing frantically and hitting the ground with their staff is part of the fun of roleplaying.

[TiaC]

Well, that's a hard question. If you asked me, I would have to respond...

I couldn't say.

[rockdeworld]

I'm not entirely sure what to have the bonus, though, perhaps a +4 to saving throws VS sonic or sound dependent spells?
Giving up the ability to speak is a huge deal, even if his character and everyone else in the party knows Drow Sign Language, because it means they can't communicate whenever they're out of sight (like to ask "what do you see?"). If they don't all have some alternate means of communication, it's much worse, because party communication is a big deal both inside and outside of combat (DM: "Mute guy, you rolled high on your Spot check and know which square the invisible guy is in. No one else did, and you can't tell them.")

He'd need at least a +6 vs books to the face. And I'd recommend more than a +4 to saving throws vs sonic spells (especially the ones that don't allow saving throws).

Ashtagon's entire post is right on. Tremorsense is the best ability of the lot due to its usability, I'd give him that and 1-2 of the others also.

Gygaxgard's feat is worthless for a non-spellcaster, since it gives less than Skill Focus: Stealth (which only costs a feat), and I'd venture to guess a build based on Link won't be a spellcaster.


I couldn't say.
Ayyyyy

[Demidos]

I'm going to go in a different direction and suggest the ability to understand all languages. Its a bit odd, but I saw it used to great effect in Kaveman26's campaign journals, and it could be rather cool.

[Flickerdart]

Consider that a mute character's ability to roleplay would be harshly limited by the fact that he can't really interact with NPCs, voice suggestions to the group, or strategize.

[ExLibrisMortis]

5' telepathy might be a useful benefit, or even touch-range telepathy.

[Fouredged Sword]

I favor something like +4 to all wisdom based skill and all wisdom based skills being permanent class skills. This means +4 to Perception, Heal, Sense Motive, Profession, and Survival.

Breaking the Vow should cause you to lose the bonus and take a -4 penalty to those same rolls, and a -2 to all saves for 24 hours.

A second feat should be available to grant silent spell for free to spell-casters with Vow of silence, possibly with the addition of a divine focus to all spells, even if they don't normally require one.

[dascarletm]

I've played characters who speak so little that you could almost say they spoke nothing at all. I believe that not speaking isn't so hard of a hit to RP as others suggest. Though playing in person would be highly recommended. I can't speak on doing it in remote games.

Also, giving them the ability to communicate to their allies is an ability that should be carefully considered, since it would almost break the spirit of the vow. I would treat it like Jay and Silent Bob, or other media that has done that trope. The companions remarkably can understand the subtle gestures that the vow taker makes. These usually don't convey complex meaning.

The interesting part is conveying your characters emotions through actions.

[Ashtagon]

5' telepathy might be a useful benefit, or even touch-range telepathy.

The spirit of the vows generally is about self-control. If for your character, telepathy is an actual possibility, then not producing chatter by mouth means nothing in the grand scheme of self-control if you can still produce chatter by mind. As telepathy can arguably get around the language-dependent barrier, it is arguably more powerful than regular vocal communication.

The spirit of a vow of silence, to me, is that you do not send messages out at a rate that even vaguely approaches conversational speeds. I'd consider allowing a character to write notes (although in the spirit of the vow, these notes should be "purposeful", and not idle banter). I'd even consider allowing a character to communicate at a whisper (ie a volume that can only be heard in a quiet setting at mouth-to-ear distances).

Interestingly, there exists a "monastic sign language" (google it) used by real-world members of silent religious orders. These were not complete languages comparable to modern sign languages, but were sufficient to cover most "functional" aspects of living in a community.

[Thisguy_]

Link is a martial or spellcasting physical fighter. Frankly, I think he's a gish. Silent spellcasting will really help give him the Link feel.

He also tends to be an instrument of the Gods, but not a healer, so flavors of Cleric and divine classes like Paladin could work as well as Magus (a learned caster he is as well).

We're missing something here, though. Nobody has bothered to note why Link cannot speak, or for how long he has made no words. He CAN communicate: He can clearly disdain at things, agree, disagree, show emotional warmth, and all KINDS of other things using only appropriate body language. But here's the kicker about that: he doesn't have to.

Link can indeed speak. In Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, and Adventure of Link, he'll occasionally say "Come on" in order to beckon someone or something to him. In early games, the player was able to select text-box responses to input from NPCs, and indeed in Twilight Princess he is implied to have full conversations on his own right. Source on all of that here (http://zeldawiki.org/Link).

This means that in order to be "like Link," the character need only be a quiet person. Alternatively, if the idea of playing a silent character is more central to the concept than "being like Link," which I think it likely is, this means that the reason for the silence is entirely up to the Player of the Player Character. All the better, as well, to be one more step toward originality.

There need be no mechanical bonus at all. For merely being a quiet person, the bonus is that the player himself has more time to consider things and apply his or her own wisdom to situations, possibly seeing or foreseeing things others do not (and indeed, since his character is totally allowed to speak in this scenario, communicate them to others). Indeed, communication of anything (probably something important) will be seen as more impactful from this quiet soul than from someone who always contributes to the conversation.

Maybe, however, the character does end up truly silent. Reasoning for this set aside, he gets everything listed above save for the verbal communication-related benefit, PLUS any mechanical bonuses you feel like throwing at him. As for Vow of Silence itself, I don't see why you have to use it at all: a character of this caliber calls for a unique trait. Others have made excellent suggestions for mechanically balancing your variant Vow of Silence.