Why play a paladin ?

[Half-orc Bard]

If you are just using PHB is there any reason to choose a paladin over a fighter. I guess lay on hands is pretty okay, but I still see no other areas that the fighter is worse than the paladin. I'm very new to 4e, so I may be missing something.

[Mando Knight]

There's little reason to from a Strength-based Defender standpoint, if you're using just the PHB, except that the Paladin multiclass feat is so-so (the mark is pretty bad if you have the typical low Cha for a Fighter, but its damage doesn't take an action so you can combo it with your Combat Challenge) but the Champion of Order Paragon Path is really good for totally locking down an opponent every encounter (Certain Justice is one of the most accurate powers in the game, and lets the user daze and weaken an opponent almost indefinitely).

Paladins with high Charisma and moderate Wisdom have some options for being a backup Leader that are rather unlike anything the Fighter has access to, particularly if you're limited to the PHB. The Hospitaler Paragon Path has a ridiculous amount of healing for a Defender path.

[NecroRebel]

The Paladin's mark feature is also far more difficult to avoid than the Fighter's. Although this is somewhat uncommon, a creature that can teleport can largely go unpunished by a Fighter, but the Paladin's Divine Challenge will damage anything that violates the mark without fail. Other means of avoiding the Fighter's mark also exist, but aside from things that simply remove a mark (which are extremely rare), avoiding the Paladin's is impossible.

Although the Fighter is still better at all levels, the Paladin becomes quite a bit more even with it at epic tier due to the existence of creatures with teleport speeds.

[Inevitability]

Paladins are CHA-based, so some races that would be very nice as defenders (like halflings or revenants) but don't have the stats for them can still be a paladin.

[p.d0t]

if you're using just the PHB

Don't do this with a paladin.
Straight up, the last Paladin I made (level 16) I took every power except one from Divine Power (the other one being a Blackguard power :smallamused:

PHB paladins are crap. Divine Power is where they figured out that WIS+CHA builds are stupid, due to nerfing your FORT+REF that way. They also decided to add in multi-marking in the form of Divine Sanction. And added STR+WIS paladin builds that can dish out gobs of damage, and being defenders they are tough as all get-out.


If you want to go a little left of centre, play a Human Blackguard with the bonus at-will option, take Ardent Strike and make CHA your primary. Congratulations, you're a striker who can mark things while having access to all the armors and defender HP+surges. :smallwink:

[GPuzzle]

You see, every Defender class has a niche.
There's 6 (well, 7, but no one plays Cavaliers) defenders:
Fighter (PHB)
Paladin (PHB)
Swordmage (Forgotten Realms Player's Guide)
Warden (PHB2)
Battlemind (PHB3)
Knight (Heroes of the Fallen Lands)

Each of them has their weaknesses and strengths. Fighters are sticky, Wardens are though, Battleminds are mobile, Knight aren't bound to Immediate Reactions and Swordmage have tons of bursts and blasts. The Paladin has the strongest multi-marking in the game. But it requires Divine Power.

[Cloud]

Yeah...you really want Divine Power for a Paladin.

Even then using just the PH, because you know, that's all that existed, my Charisma Paladin found a nice niche in his strong secondary leader role. Wrath of the Gods I can still remember as being supremely brutal when we were all new to the game, and while rather dated now being a Half-Elf and picking up warlock powers was fun (though probably better done with bard powers now). So yeah, I guess the Fighter is a straight up better defender in terms of locking enemies down, but the Paladin is hardly bad, particularly if you can add some sources beyond the PH.

[Mando Knight]

Yeah...you really want Divine Power for a Paladin.

Even then using just the PH, because you know, that's all that existed, my Charisma Paladin found a nice niche in his strong secondary leader role. Wrath of the Gods I can still remember as being supremely brutal when we were all new to the game, and while rather dated now being a Half-Elf and picking up warlock powers was fun (though probably better done with bard powers now). So yeah, I guess the Fighter is a straight up better defender in terms of locking enemies down, but the Paladin is hardly bad, particularly if you can add some sources beyond the PH.

The "Balanced" Paladin, which focuses on Charisma and Strength (and can readily take the choicest powers off of either list, though generally one stat is still slightly higher than the other), is another build that's workable without Divine Power (while also packing the strongest Divine Challenge with Divine Power). Strength/Wisdom is really weak without it, though, since they rely so much on Divine Power's Mighty Challenge.

[p.d0t]

I've actually heard of a player going with a dual-primary CON+WIS Paladin and focusing on support via Lay on Hands. You're basically doomed to never hit anything, but I'm told that if that kind of playstyle floats your boat, it's actually quite a fun build.

[Mando Knight]

I've actually heard of a player going with a dual-primary CON+WIS Paladin and focusing on support via Lay on Hands. You're basically doomed to never hit anything, but I'm told that if that kind of playstyle floats your boat, it's actually quite a fun build.

That makes the character a really lame Pacifist Healer/Artificer.

At which point you could basically just play a Pacifist Healer/Artificer.

[Dimers]

I've actually heard of a player going with a dual-primary CON+WIS Paladin and focusing on support via Lay on Hands. You're basically doomed to never hit anything ...

Maybe a half-elf or revenant half-elf with heavy Dilettante use?

I tried building an Iron Guardian that turtles to protect the party -- that paragon path has a 12th-level At Will power to halve or negate damage done to you, but it takes a standard action to activate. You can maybe use other classes' minor-action attacks, immediates, sustainable powers and so forth to still have SOME activity, but it's the same basic problem as the build p.d0t suggested -- it won't satisfy most players.

[p.d0t]

Maybe a half-elf or revenant half-elf with heavy Dilettante use?

This is the solution for every build, though :smalltongue:

[GPuzzle]

Rune Shield gives adjacent allies a +4 bonus to all defenses. I tried building a Serene Blade Runepriest/Warden that used Whips and Mark of Storm to slides enemies and knock them prone while giving their allies big defensive bonuses. Could never manage to get the defensive buffs, though.