Metamagic for high level spells?

[OldeRock]

Does anyone know if you can, say, empower a level 9 spell?

My friend has a Cleric, and he wants to use his metamagic feats on spells that will cause them to take up spell slots he doesn't even have, because he isn't at a high enough level to cast those spells, yet.

We were talking, and we aren't sure if he can do that. We thought it was similar to doing one on say, a level 9 spell, because there is no such thing as a spell higher than level 9, so how could an empowered level 9 spell take up a spell slot for a higher level?

Bear in mind, we're doing PHB standard rules, and nothing fancy. We probably won't even go to epic levels, but we can't find anything that describes the rules for this specific situation.

How does that work? Can he simply not empower those spells?

Thanks!

[geekintheground]

he cannot do that without epic feats. specifically extra spell capacity, which can get you 10+ level spell slots specifically to hold metamagic'd spells.

[Cruiser1]

Does anyone know if you can, say, empower a level 9 spell? Bear in mind, we're doing PHB standard rules, and nothing fancy.
Yes, there several ways to empower a level 9 spell. You can get spell slots higher than level 9 through epic feats. More common is to use various forms of metamagic reduction via feats (such as Divine Metamagic or Sudden Empower) or class features (such as Incantatrix or Spelldancer), which allow casting an empowered spell still using a level 9 slot. See the Metamagic guide for details: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207382-The-Metamagic-Guide

[geekintheground]

oh yeah... reducers... :smallredface: i knew that

[Cloud]

If you only have the PH I don't know any way of using metamagic reducers, however metamagic rods will still work.

Just slightly outside of core, complete divine, as has been said, has divine metamagic. Using divine metamagic uses turning attempts without increasing the level of the spell. Not core, but certainly not 'fancy' either. I'm sure there is metamagic reducers that work for divine casters somewhere in 3.5, but I'd argue they count as 'fancy', it tends to be a more arcane trick. The sudden metamagic feats would also work, but are again not core...and really not worth taking.

[zingbobco000]

It is possible to do it w/out incantrix-ness and others but with the price of two feats you can empower any spell for free (but it's only one spell extra feat per spell) Get the feat: Arcane thesis, _____ and Easy Metamagic, Empower makes empower spell not increase the spell costing on that spell. Incantrix is better as you need to succeed on a 51 DC spellcraft check.