Mirror Duplicate, Ring Gate, and You

[unseenmage]

So the Plane of Mirrors is detailed in the Manual of the Planes. I'm interested in fiddling with exploiting Mirror Duplicates.

MIRROR INHABITANTS
- The Plane of Mirrors has few inhabitants. However, when a traveler passes through a mirror, the population of the Plane of Mirrors increases by two, not one. A mirror-self is created somewhere else on the Plane of Mirrors whenever someone mirrorwalks onto the Plane. This mirror-self is identical in every way with the original
character, with the following exceptions:

- The mirror-self has the opposite alignment as the original character. For example, a lawful good mirrorwalker would spawn a chaotic evil mirror-self. (A true neutral mirrorwalker spawns a neutral mirror-self.)

- If the original self is carrying a mirror as equipment, the mirror isn't duplicated by the mirror-self. All other items held, worn, or carried by the original are duplicated by the mirror-self.

- The mirror-self knows the location of its original self, but the reverse isn't true unless the two meet. The mirror-self also has the memories of the original at the moment of creation, including which mirror the original used to enter the Plane of Mirrors.

- The mirror-self is an outsider, so it cannot be raised or resurrected if slain.

- The mirror-self has 6o-foot darkvision, whether the original self has this ability or not.

- Mirror-selves can innately identify each other by sight.

- The mirror-self favors the opposite hand. An ambidextrous traveler produces an ambidextrous mirror-self.

- The mirror-self cannot leave the Plane of Mirrors unless it slays its original self.
- There's not much on the Plane of Mirrors, so most mirrorselves immediately start to stalk their originals in hopes of killing them. If a mirror-self succeeds, it will try to escape through a mirror-portal and take over the life of its original. The original self may still be rescued and raised from the dead, but it must then deal with whatever havoc its mirror-self has created on its home plane. - If slain, a mirror-self shatters, along with all items it possesses.
- A mirror-self winks out of existence if its original self passes back through a mirror before the mirror-self gets a chance to slay it.
- It normally takes 2d20 rounds for a mirror-self to hunt through the winding corridor of the Plane of Mirrors and find its original self. If the mirror-self is slain, then the original self is forever safe from mirrorself attacks while on that Plane of Mirrors.
- A Plane of Mirrors connecting a different set of mirrors will still spawn a mirror-self, however.

My question is... If you carry in a Planar Ring Gate (PlH) through with you does your Mirror Duplicate get a Planar Ring Gate too? If so then where would the other end be? Same place as yours because it's a duplicate?

I ask because farming a Mirror Plane for copies of Construct minions via a Rod of Construct Control (AaEG) sounds fun and profitable. And because my initial plan was to stash the Rod on the other end of a Planar Ring Gate.

[Captnq]

But the copies cannot leave without killing the original. And every duplicate that goes back will need to be killed by it's duplicate. Add infinitum

[Nettlekid]

I really thought this was going to be a Mirror of Opposition thread, based on that bolded text of "If the original self is carrying a mirror as equipment, the mirror isn't duplicated by the mirror-self. All other items held, worn, or carried by the original are duplicated by the mirror-self." Bringing a Mirror of Opposition into the Mirror world and using it on your Mirror-self would create an anti-anti-you, or a perfect ally of yourself, which you could use to take down the Mirror-self.

Alternatively, use your Mirror of Opposition to create an anti-you first, then send THAT into the Mirror world. An anti-anti-you will be created by the Mirror world, hopefully kill the MoO-created anti-you, and since it has now defeated the creature that created it, it can leave the Mirror world. But would it be the same alignment as you or the opposite?

[unseenmage]

I hadn't thought of either of those things. This is already an awesome thread just for those two contributions. Gonna have me chewing on these thoughts all day. :smallbiggrin:

[thethird]

use your Mirror of Opposition to create an anti-you first, then send THAT into the Mirror world. An anti-anti-you will be created by the Mirror world, hopefully kill the MoO-created anti-you, and since it has now defeated the creature that created it, it can leave the Mirror world. But would it be the same alignment as you or the opposite?

That is really clever... I would say that it has the same alignment.

You probably want to set it so you have the mirror of opposition situated in someway that the copy can only appear in one square. That square should be covered with quintessence (which can be seen through) so the copy would be carted into quintessence. Once that happens you can push it into a plane of mirrors connecting two mirrors (you should control both mirrors), preferably using a summoned creature that would last for only a few rounds. The reverse copy of your reverse copy would then appear in the plane of mirrors (not surrounded in quintessence). The only way for the mirror-self of your mirror of opposition copy to leave the plane of mirrors is to slay the mirror of opposition copy and then leave through your controlled mirrors (the one you are using as an entrance or the exit). Personally I would cover one, making it unusable and would leave the other one heavily guarded.

If you rule that the mirror of opposition can only do a copy at a time (i.e. if you stay in front of the mirror of opposition only one copy appears, till it is defeated, not one per round) staying in front the mirror of opposition is a good idea while this happens. If your anti-you is defeated, a new anti-you would appear and you would know that the one leaving the plane of mirrors is an anti-anti-you. If you anti-you is victorous it would be able to leave the plane of mirrors, and go attack you, but a new one wouldn't appear and you would know that he is indeed the "bad" one.

[Cruiser1]

If slain, a mirror-self shatters, along with all items it possesses.
The Plane of Mirrors is a great way to get infinite wishes! You can use it to duplicate your consumable magic items, such as a Scroll of Wish! Just don't kill your mirror-self. Instead hit them with an effect like Baleful Polymorph so they don't die but drop their equipment. Then take their copy of your item and use it before leaving the Plane of Mirrors.

The fact that your mirror-self is an Outsider can be exploited (assuming you aren't one). For example, if you have an Outsider bane sword, you'll do much more damage to your mirror-self, than they do to you with the same weapon. Make a custom or cursed magic item that gives you a benefit, but harms Outsiders who wear it. Then your mirror-self will start out crippled, and you can easily farm them for duplicate items. :smallbiggrin:


The mirror-self has the opposite alignment as the original character.
The Plane of Mirrors is also a much cheaper way to convert evildoers than the Sanctify the Wicked spell. Send evil creatures through a portal into the Plane of Mirrors, and see who comes back out. If the evil original comes back out, force them back in again until their good mirror-self comes out. Great fun with arch-devils and demon lords, especially when they return to the original's life in infernal realms as a force of good! :smalltongue:

[Nettlekid]

That is really clever... I would say that it has the same alignment.

At first I thought so (gut feeling) but then I noticed that the Mirror of Opposition says that it makes an exact duplicate of you, except that the duplicate attacks you. An exact duplicate (with some kind of attack-you compulsion) would still be your alignment, right? So the mirror-self of that copy would be opposite...
There must be some way to strategically create copies, like enter the mirror world, copy your foe, get the foe's copy to leave, copy it, have that copy reenter, or something along those lines, to end up with a free copy of you that wants to be your buddy.


You probably want to set it so you have the mirror of opposition situated in someway that the copy can only appear in one square. That square should be covered with quintessence (which can be seen through) so the copy would be carted into quintessence. Once that happens you can push it into a plane of mirrors connecting two mirrors (you should control both mirrors), preferably using a summoned creature that would last for only a few rounds. The reverse copy of your reverse copy would then appear in the plane of mirrors (not surrounded in quintessence). The only way for the mirror-self of your mirror of opposition copy to leave the plane of mirrors is to slay the mirror of opposition copy and then leave through your controlled mirrors (the one you are using as an entrance or the exit). Personally I would cover one, making it unusable and would leave the other one heavily guarded.

If you rule that the mirror of opposition can only do a copy at a time (i.e. if you stay in front of the mirror of opposition only one copy appears, till it is defeated, not one per round) staying in front the mirror of opposition is a good idea while this happens. If your anti-you is defeated, a new anti-you would appear and you would know that the one leaving the plane of mirrors is an anti-anti-you. If you anti-you is victorous it would be able to leave the plane of mirrors, and go attack you, but a new one wouldn't appear and you would know that he is indeed the "bad" one.
I think this is very clever but I don't follow it all the way through. Sounds like it would work though.

[unseenmage]

...

The Plane of Mirrors is also a much cheaper way to convert evildoers than the Sanctify the Wicked spell. Send evil creatures through a portal into the Plane of Mirrors, and see who comes back out. If the evil original comes back out, force them back in again until their good mirror-self comes out. Great fun with arch-devils and demon lords, especially when they return to the original's life in infernal realms as a force of good! :smalltongue:

Except that after you slay your Mirror self in one constellation* of the Plane of Mirrors you don't make more mirror duplicates when you enter that same constellation.
*A constellation is a group of mirrors that are connected by some fact or another, often their manufacture or ownership.

[Cruiser1]

Except that after you slay your Mirror self in one constellation* of the Plane of Mirrors you don't make more mirror duplicates when you enter that same constellation.
*A constellation is a group of mirrors that are connected by some fact or another, often their manufacture or ownership.
Ok, so just ensure the evil creature you send in gets killed by its mirror-self on the first trip. For example, cast Deep Slumber or related spell on the evil creature until it fails its save, then throw it into the Plane of Mirrors. Outsiders don't sleep, so the good mirror-self will easily walk up and kill the sleeping original, then exit the plane. :smallsmile:

[Nettlekid]

Except that after you slay your Mirror self in one constellation* of the Plane of Mirrors you don't make more mirror duplicates when you enter that same constellation.
*A constellation is a group of mirrors that are connected by some fact or another, often their manufacture or ownership.

If we decide that Mirror of Opposition copies keep the alignment of their original, you can keep sending new ones of those in, getting an opposite clone for each copy, and never using up the original's mirror-verse copy.

[unseenmage]

If we decide that Mirror of Opposition copies keep the alignment of their original, you can keep sending new ones of those in, getting an opposite clone for each copy, and never using up the original's mirror-verse copy.

Am loving the use of the Mirror on the plane of Mirrors by the way. Am definitely using it for my evil Illithid Larvae Thrallherd character. Is right up his alley.

One wonders if Mirror of Opposition copies and/or Simulacrums of Mirror Duplicates gain the Mirror Duplicate's inability to leave the Plane of Mirrors. It's likely they do. Much like an Incarnate Construct of a Permanent Animated Object could still be Dispel Magic-ed since there's no rule that takes the trait away.


Am still curious about the Planar Ring Gates question though. Can't for the life of me think of a RAW friendly answer. :smallconfused:

[Nettlekid]

Am loving the use of the Mirror on the plane of Mirrors by the way. Am definitely using it for my evil Illithid Larvae Thrallherd character. Is right up his alley.

One wonders if Mirror of Opposition copies and/or Simulacrums of Mirror Duplicates gain the Mirror Duplicate's inability to leave the Plane of Mirrors. It's likely they do. Much like an Incarnate Construct of a Permanent Animated Object could still be Dispel Magic-ed since there's no rule that takes the trait away.


I would think so (the only way I could see otherwise would be that the Mirror Duplicate has to destroy the original to leave, and the MoO Copy has no real-world original) so you should use the MoO outside the Mirror Plane first, and then send the copy in to get killed by its Mirror Duplicate rather than use the MoO on your own Mirror Duplicate.


Am still curious about the Planar Ring Gates question though. Can't for the life of me think of a RAW friendly answer. :smallconfused:

I don't think there is an answer. The most likely one is that they have one ring which doesn't go anywhere, because the second ring doesn't exist for them. It copies all items you have on hand, and you only have one ring on hand. And a one-ring Ring Gate is useless.