[3.5] Stumped by my little brother.. (hat of disguise related)

[Cryov]

So my younger brother is in a d&d campaign and has been chatting me up on skype for help regarding his character.
His rogue did something bad (something about stabbing a group of knights in the back..literally) and he is a highly wanted man and every city has check points looking for him.
He wants to get by these check points but he is worried about the will save vs glamour effect from the hat of disguise. Since there is no at-will alter self item in d&d that I can find, do you have any suggestions on how he can avoid a check of any sort when being examined?
Something he can use as needed for these checks, not a one time spell cast to get through mind you.

We found a way around changing his clothing without a check for illusion and what not, but his face..that is proving to be difficult.

[NoACWarrior]

So long as the player is not interacted with alter self still works ok.

Otherwise hes going to have to cover up his face to mask his identity.
If you want you could have him become a masked vigilante so that he gets support from the normal everyday people, that way him being in costume isn't a bad thing.
Further more, once he gets enough support the knight order can't really do anything to him, not that they would suspect he's the one who BS one of their members.

[sleepyphoenixx]

To get a save they have to study the illusion or interact with it.
To avoid being recognised all he has to do is change his face.
Unless the knights are in the habit of punching people in the face to check for illusions he should be fine.

If the knights are paranoid enough to check for illusion magic the only sure way is to raise disguise high enough that they'll fail even on a 20.
There's quite a few ways to boost a disguise check and since you prepare it beforehand you can also take 10 on the check, so it shouldn't be too hard to get a nearly impenetrable mundane disguise.

[Shining Wrath]

The best way for a rogue to get through a check point is to not go through the check point at all. Climb the city walls. Swim the sewers. Get a Amulet of Vermin (800 gp) and fly out on the back of a wasp.

Another highly recommended method is to be invisible and attach yourself to the bottom of a wagon. They may look under wagons; it is unlikely they will FEEL under wagons. When you get out, sacrifice the boots / gloves that you glued to the wagon bottom, and replace them with the ones from your pack - all of these are invisible so long as you are invisible.

[Know(Nothing)]

Go beyond the numbers on the disguise check and you might be able to obviate it entirely. Cover some bandages in blood and dirt and various other fluids, wrap them around his face leaving only an eye exposed, have him feign a hacking cough, walk with a crutch, etc. Have a well-rehearsed story about being viciously robbed/beaten and then infection setting in to the wounds. They won't want to peel off a bunch of rancid bandages.

This might get them to just wave you through so they don't have to deal with you. At very least it's worth a +2 on a mundane disguise check.

[AugustNights]

I'm fairly certain hat of disguise doesn't allow for a will save, just provides a tidy bonus to disguise checks, which may be negated by true sight or similar. Crank disguise skill and invest in some skill tricks, most guards won't have spot in class.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Go beyond the numbers on the disguise check and you might be able to obviate it entirely. Cover some bandages in blood and dirt and various other fluids, wrap them around his face leaving only an eye exposed, have him feign a hacking cough, walk with a crutch, etc. Have a well-rehearsed story about being viciously robbed/beaten and then infection setting in to the wounds. They won't want to peel off a bunch of rancid bandages.

This might get them to just wave you through so they don't have to deal with you. At very least it's worth a +2 on a mundane disguise check.

What you suggest is basically what the disguise skill does. If you can get around making disguise checks by providing great fluff there's no reason to take the skill, ever.
I'd allow a minor circumstance bonus (for actually putting thought into it) though.

Note that others only gain a spot check against your disguise if people are already suspicious of you. Chances are you can walk right through the checkpoint as long as your face looks different and you don't draw attention.

[Darrin]

Since there is no at-will alter self item in d&d that I can find, do you have any suggestions on how he can avoid a check of any sort when being examined?


Fleshshifter Armor (13160 GP, Book of Vile Darkness p. 111). +1 leather armor and alter self at will.

Phylactery of Change (11200 GP, Arms & Equipment Guide p. 135). All-day polymorph up to 7 HD.


As far as not being examined... suggest he disguise himself with a disease, such as leprousy or red ache, and see how many soldiers want to "interact" with him.

[eastmabl]

To get a save they have to study the illusion or interact with it.
To avoid being recognised all he has to do is change his face.
Unless the knights are in the habit of punching people in the face to check for illusions he should be fine.

Sounds like my kind of paladin.

[NoACWarrior]

Sounds like my kind of paladin.

It would be a funny sight to see paladins of freedom punching suspicious people in the face to make sure they weren't disguised.
You could have the excuse that it is thier way of saying hello and that they will pay for your next meal as a symbol of their friendship.

But, all it takes is interaction, not necessarily a punch in the face. Although the Knight order may itself not be stealthy, you could have a dozen hidden rouges basically feeling suspicious people up for weapons and / or confirming disguises. Sleight of hand, 'oops sorry lady I didn't mean to run into your bosom', or 'is that a short sword you have hidden or are you happy to sneak attack other knights with it'.

[Know(Nothing)]

I'm fairly certain hat of disguise doesn't allow for a will save, just provides a tidy bonus to disguise checks, which may be negated by true sight or similar. Crank disguise skill and invest in some skill tricks, most guards won't have spot in class.

It replicates the spell disguise self which gives you a +10 on the skill check, but is a glamer, and thus is subject to a save if "studied carefully" which is under the purview of the DM as to whether or not guards checking people at a check-point get. Also he would be emanating a faint illusion if checked with detect magic which might just throw up some red flags.


What you suggest is basically what the disguise skill does. If you can get around making disguise checks by providing great fluff there's no reason to take the skill, ever.
I'd allow a minor circumstance bonus (for actually putting thought into it) though.

Standing on the opposite side of a wall where your enemy can't see you obviates Hide as a skill. Not speaking, or answering questions in ways that aren't technically lies gets around the need for a Bluff check. How you play alters what checks you need.

You aren't disguising yourself to look like someone else in this case, they just can't see your face. You don't look like a different person, but neither can they tell that you're the person they're after. You still probably need a bluff check if questioned.

[Shining Wrath]

It replicates the spell disguise self which gives you a +10 on the skill check, but is a glamer, and thus is subject to a save if "studied carefully" which is under the purview of the DM as to whether or not guards checking people at a check-point get. Also he would be emanating a faint illusion if checked with detect magic which might just throw up some red flags.



Standing on the opposite side of a wall where your enemy can't see you obviates Hide as a skill. Not speaking, or answering questions in ways that aren't technically lies gets around the need for a Bluff check. How you play alters what checks you need.

You aren't disguising yourself to look like someone else in this case, they just can't see your face. You don't look like a different person, but neither can they tell that you're the person they're after. You still probably need a bluff check if questioned.

There is also a difference between "looks like a different person" and "looks like an extremely icky different person".

[Arbane]

As far as not being examined... suggest he disguise himself with a disease, such as leprousy or red ache, and see how many soldiers want to "interact" with him.

Just remember, Paladins get immunity to disease...

[CombatOwl]

So my younger brother is in a d&d campaign and has been chatting me up on skype for help regarding his character.
His rogue did something bad (something about stabbing a group of knights in the back..literally) and he is a highly wanted man and every city has check points looking for him.
He wants to get by these check points but he is worried about the will save vs glamour effect from the hat of disguise. Since there is no at-will alter self item in d&d that I can find, do you have any suggestions on how he can avoid a check of any sort when being examined?
Something he can use as needed for these checks, not a one time spell cast to get through mind you.

We found a way around changing his clothing without a check for illusion and what not, but his face..that is proving to be difficult.

Mind you, a wand of alter self is without a doubt the most legit way to deal with this. However, why not just get a custom item commissioned? An "improved hat of disguise" using alter self rather than disguise self would only cost 18,000g (9000g if someone in the party can do the crafting) and is extremely useful for all the reasons alter self itself is amazing. You can acquire any of the movement modes (including flight!), gain whatever kind of vision is needed, become a master of disguise, etc. If he happens to be an aasimar or tiefling, that item just gets stupidly powerful.

[AugustNights]

It replicates the spell disguise self

Right, should have read the spell before posting, the will save part is written right into it.
Went to check on glamers, as you mentioned, and it seems *all* illusions can be disbelieved through Will Save (or rather revealed as false) with careful study and interaction.
Curious.

[Grayson01]

Just remember, Paladins get immunity to disease...

Are they Paladins or Knights I am not sure if that was made clear in the OP. Plus it would be a little unbelievable IMO for every check point to be full of low to mid level Paladins or Knights for that matter and not NPC classes. Maybe one low to mid level PC Class as the person incharge.

[CombatOwl]

Are they Paladins or Knights I am not sure if that was made clear in the OP. Plus it would be a little unbelievable IMO for every check point to be full of low to mid level Paladins or Knights for that matter and not NPC classes. Maybe one low to mid level PC Class as the person incharge.

"Hail brother, what is it you were doing? I myself felled three trolls just two days ago, a glorious battle indeed!"

"Err, I was... assigned elsewhere."

"Ooch, assigned to thief-catching again?"

"Yes, not all the work we do is so... glamorous."

[7H3LaughingMan]

Hello everyone, this is Cryov's younger brother and wanted to make a post explaining the situation better. The campaign takes place in the early 6th century in Brittannia. The whole point of this campaign at the moment is to place Arthur on the throne and dealing with things. We were in London when the city was attacked in various locations by a Thief/Assassin Guild, I decided it might be worth while to weasel my foot a little into the group by helping them kill some knights who I previously told I was going to help out in battle. These knights are loyal to some Duke who is a pain in the ass and some of his other knights have killed a member, so a little payback was needed for my Chaotic Neutral character. However he was spotted doing this and is now wanted in London.

I like some of these ideas, but this group is "evil" (only care about themselves) and most of the people don't like them. So I can't become a vigilante or anything like that since I am associated with people that the commoners don't like. Pretending to be sick also might prevent me from actually entering the city or if I make it bad enough might warrant someone wanting to pity-kill the almost dead person. London is also a walled city and has people on the walls so scaling it might be a bit of a challenge.

My main concern is the fact that if I am walking around in the city I will have to keep my disguise up and since our group has become associated with this evil group due to me we might be harassed by guards for that or for any other little thing. I don't want something that might fail and screw things up worst.

[Darrin]

Polymorph any object costs 1200 GP and would be permanent until dispelled. No Will save, not even a Spot check to worry about.

[Jack_Simth]

OK. So get your name cleared (by framing someone else after the fact). Get the witnesses discredited, bribe others to say they "saw what really happened", arrange for someone else who looks virtually identical to you to confess (and then get killed, and let the coroner-equivalent wipe the disguise off) or similar. Also remember that in ye olden days, photography wasn't particularly good. Wanted posters were done by artists. Arrange to distribute some 'corrected' or 'updated' wanted posters attributing the crime to someone who doesn't look quite like you.

What resources do you have available? What resources does the opposition have available? Those two questions should dominate your tactics.

[Know(Nothing)]

There is also a difference between "looks like a different person" and "looks like an extremely icky different person".

Fair enough, I just favor creative play more than sterile dice rolling. I'd give a solid +4, maybe +6 to someone thinking things through and role playing well.

Incidentally, I also absolutely approve of your previously mentioned methods of getting around check points. The invisibility still sets them off if they're detect magic-ing, but it all depends on what resources they have available to them. Weirdly enough, if these checkpoints ARE using magic, a mundane disguise is actually the better route as it is less suspicious, or at least harder to be interpreted as suspicious. If they aren't using magic, there are all manner of magic ways to blow past these guys.

In either case, avoiding the entire encounter is the safest method, if feasible.

edit: New info!

If you're evil and like a bit of style, there's nothing more fun than dressing as someone who is usually above reproach-- a cleric or holy man of some sort! Dress in your most pious finery and sneer at any heathen guard who dares question a man of [insert relevant deity here].

[7H3LaughingMan]

OK. So get your name cleared (by framing someone else after the fact). Get the witnesses discredited, bribe others to say they "saw what really happened", arrange for someone else who looks virtually identical to you to confess (and then get killed, and let the coroner-equivalent wipe the disguise off) or similar. Also remember that in ye olden days, photography wasn't particularly good. Wanted posters were done by artists. Arrange to distribute some 'corrected' or 'updated' wanted posters attributing the crime to someone who doesn't look quite like you.

What resources do you have available? What resources does the opposition have available? Those two questions should dominate your tactics.

That does seem more plausible and easier to get done, the resources the opposition has is rather high. At most it would be the Duke who is strongly opposed to Arthur taking the throne and wanted to destroy Excalibur, I killed two of his knights and he also has sent knights to fight us (and killed one of us) to try and retrieve Excalibur. My current resources isn't very much, I am a level 4 rogue and the only true resources I have is with this group I am trying to make friends with and probably might be able to get some favors from.

Once I do level up I can pop some ranks into Forgery and try and go about your method. Currently I will have to stick with my Hat of Disguise.

[Know(Nothing)]

A solid way to keep them from getting a save against your hat is to cause a distraction when you come to a checkpoint. Disable Device on a horse and cart, riling the horse near the checkpoint, causing a squabble between nearby burly morons-- anything to break the concentration of the guards as you and a few bystanders casually move past.

Just keep your creative wits about you as you come to these situations. Always ask questions of your DM. What is the ground like here? Is there a commotion of merchants and crowds? What is the surrounding architecture like? Ask enough questions and you're bound to get something you can use. A well placed arrow through the rope holding some suspended construction equipment with cause all manner of distraction.