Binder/Beguiler Improvements

[Quantumphear]

I've recently joined a game - gestalt builds, not heavily optimised, and most roles in the party are well represented.

It's been a ton of fun for the few sessions i've played, but i have a sneaking feeling that i will become quite useless. I'm currently running a Beguiler 5/Binder 5, and the misdirection and trickery I've been able to achieve is very rewarding. However, the DM has indicated to us in no uncertain terms that the campaign will become very undead heavy, and there have been hints of a certain elder evil popping up too...

Basically my problem is that the beguiler is a nice class, but tends to fall over due to undead being immune to mind-affecting spells. I've been making up for it so far with the binder abilities, but i'd like some advice on how to remain useful into late-game. Feats, Items, prestige classes, whatever you can think of to help me out - However i'm not looking for full-on optimization.

I've been thinking of going for the full 20 binder levels, and for the beguiler side of things i want to pick up a level of mindbender to delay advanced learning. I really like the anima mage PrC, And the DM will let me take it with just caster level progression, so the final build i've been thinking of is beguiler9/minderbender1/anima mage 10/Binder20

So, what are your thoughts?

[NoACWarrior]

The Binder part is working as it should, with beguiler's weaknesses showing.

I'd suggest just keep with the gestalt and if possible take the domain spell casting feat so that you can get different domain spells. Another post around the boards in the past day goes into detail of a player who wanted to get their beguiler different spells - and theres quite a few ways to do it.

Alternatively you could simply take the online vestige to help deal with your issue, summon monster with alien qualities once every 5 rounds is a pretty good alternative to kill undead.

You also might want to look into getting some type of fire abilities - either from Binder or your domain spells / different spells, most undead which are immune to cold are automatically vulnerable to fire. Many DMs miss this and should note the immunity rules.

[Doc_Maynot]

Song of the Dead metamagic feat from Dragon Magazine Compendium

+1, Spell becomes a necromancy spell and effects intelligent undead.

[Rebel7284]

Tenebrous can turn undead. Improved Binding feat can give you access to it next level.

Taking Shadowcraft Mage is a typical way you can expand your Beguiler spell list. That route will take a few more levels though.

[Doc_Maynot]

Also, you can Beguiler into Radiant Servant, then Prestige Paladin or Bard, depending on if you want to spend 3 feats (Necromantic Bloodline, Kin Mastery, Mounted Combat) or not.

[Eldaran]

Basically my problem is that the beguiler is a nice class, but tends to fall over due to undead being immune to mind-affecting spells. I've been making up for it so far with the binder abilities, but i'd like some advice on how to remain useful into late-game. Feats, Items, prestige classes, whatever you can think of to help me out - However i'm not looking for full-on optimization.


One thing to note is that figments (like Silent Image and the like) are not mind-affecting. This means not only do they work on undead, but mindless undead are very susceptible to them, as they're not going to question what is there.

[Cloud]

Much to the annoyance of my DMs, many illusion spells are extremely effective against mindless undead, surround them with a wall, they're mindless and stop moving. Even intelligent undead can be given pause with clever illusions that they won't want to interact with and so never get to save. There is also of course the option of dominating the scariest thing you can find and throw them at undead in your stead. =P Arcane disciple is a great way of boosting your spells known as well on the beguiler side.

On the binder please don't use Zceryll, you can be more clever than that. XD While in general the online vestiges are more powerful than the ones in the book, Zceryll single handed lifts the class into tier 2 without tying. Even if you remember to give the summons a duration. ...Actually, use Zceryll, just nuke Summon Alien from orbit.

[Quantumphear]

Haha thanks guys i'm taking notes on all of these!

Arcane Disciple lets me get some cleric spells right? What Domain would you recommend?

Also, do you think my class progression (see above) is alright, or are there better alternatives?

[Mnemnosyne]

Is there a particular reason you're going Beguiler 9 for your build? 9 is a dead level for Beguilers, you'd be much better off with Beguiler 7 at most. Personally, I would go Beguiler 5/Mindbender 1/Anima Mage 10, leaving 4 levels for something else. You could even take two more levels of Beguiler at the end there, picking up a 9th level Advanced Learning at 18th level, such as mindrape or shades, or something better that I'm not thinking of offhand.

On the Binder side, are you sticking with the gestalt 'no prestige classes on both sides at the same time' rule? If so, then Binder 20 is fine, but if not, I would seriously consider picking up 5 levels of Knight of the Sacred Seal. Binder 10/KotSS [Zceryll] 5/Binder +5 is a solid build. Since mind blank is on the Beguiler list, you don't really need the 19th level Soul Guardian ability. You do lose two pact augmentations, but the KotSS abilities are, I think, more than adequate to make up for it. Even with the no double prestige classes rule, a single level of Knight of the Sacred Seal is probably worthwhile, since it gives you proficiency with all martial weapons and all armor, and most importantly, it means you are never at risk of making a poor pact with your patron vestige. That means you can always use Exploit Vestige with no chance of failure. Every vestige, even Zceryll, has at least one ability that's not so great you can't give it up; with Zceryll, giving up Alien Mind is easy, especially if you have mind blank.

[Quantumphear]

I agree with you that i could go something other than beguiler 9, but KoSS doesn't really do much for me - im generally sitting back and casting, or using vestige abilities. I'd rather stay with binder, simply because getting to KoSS uses a feat that i don't particularly need.

If i switched anima mage to be only binder level progression, is there a good caster PrC that i could pick up?