setting help...

[DarkKensai]

Hey all...

First of all, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section...it seemed either this or homebrew, but since this is as much about fluff as mechanics I decided on here...

anyways, I am designing a story based on a demonic invasion into the material plane, in modern day. I like the idea of firearms not being very efficient against the demons, so the militaries of the world will eventually take to using more archaic weapons.(Navy SEALs with katana and Army soldiers in a phalanx just sounds cool, sue me)

My problem is, much as I like the idea, I just can't get into it if there's not a REASON for the firearms to be less effective. I can't just handwave it.
Part of the issue is that I still want firearms to be somewhat effective. Demon hoard or not, a flight of A-10s is still going to cause some damage, I just want to put the main focus on melee weapons instead of small-arms. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I've looked at other fiction, and the best ones I've found are 1)Dune, where shields pretty much negate ANY ranged combat,
2) Starwars, where the melee users are just so awesome they don't need to fear most small-arms. or
3) any variety of post-apocalyptic fiction where ammo is in short supply.

None of these really fit the theme or feel that I'm going for...help?

[Actana]

The demons are resistant to everything except a certain type of material that is conveniently easily made for melee weapons but hard/too costly to produce as ammunition.

[DarkKensai]

I thought of something like that, but I keep thinking of why the demons would have some random vulnerability like that....

I like fantasy, but I just can't turn off the part of my brain that likes science...:smallfrown:

[Actana]

I thought of something like that, but I keep thinking of why the demons would have some random vulnerability like that....

I like fantasy, but I just can't turn off the part of my brain that likes science...:smallfrown:

Maybe the portal or whatever phenomenon that brought the demons also brought the thing they're vulnerable to from their own realm into the world (because reasons). Or some otherworldly enemy of the demons sent the stuff down to earth as they know the demons are vulnerable to it.

[HammeredWharf]

A good guy army (angels/celestials/Van Helsing/whateveryoulike) came to assist us puny mortals and gave us special enchanted weapons that overcome the demons' damage reduction. However, because the good guys come from standard medieval fantasy, they only have enchanted melee weapons. Enchanting modern weaponry would take time, knowledge and resources they don't have, which is why we'll have to make do with medieval weaponry for now.

Alternative version: Instead of the good guys army, there could be a stash of anti-demon weaponry somewhere. Maybe the religious organization of your choice has faced demons in the past. Maybe it's the remains of Atlantis, which got wiped out because of a demon attack. This way, you don't have to worry about the players producing new weapons, because they'd have to reverse-engineer the enchantment tech, first.

[Rhynn]

It's pretty obvious: only special blessed weapons work on demons, and the blessing requires e.g. incorporating a special structure or component into the weapon, so only relatively large metal weapons (like swords, maybe knives) can be used; bullets are too small. Alternatively, it could be work- or resource-intensive, and it's feasible to bless 1-2 weapons per warrior, but not thousands of rounds of ammo. Maybe the blessing can only be performed on one discrete object at a time: one sword or one bullet.

[lytokk]

It's pretty obvious: only special blessed weapons work on demons, and the blessing requires e.g. incorporating a special structure or component into the weapon, so only relatively large metal weapons (like swords, maybe knives) can be used; bullets are too small. Alternatively, it could be work- or resource-intensive, and it's feasible to bless 1-2 weapons per warrior, but not thousands of rounds of ammo. Maybe the blessing can only be performed on one discrete object at a time: one sword or one bullet.

I was going to suggest something along this line, but to expand on it. I would think part of the allure of this game would be to make modern weapons not completely ineffective. A shot from a high power sniper rifle can still do damage, but do to the demon's infernal nature, it warps the air around them making them harder to hit.

Something along those lines. You're always going to get the guy who still wants to use a gun over a sword, at least at medium distance, so I'd say to not negate them, just hamper them.

[Rhynn]

A shot from a high power sniper rifle can still do damage, but do to the demon's infernal nature, it warps the air around them making them harder to hit.

I'd probably go with the demons regenerating damage from non-special (holy, sanctified, arcane, whatever) weapons: you blow a demon's head off, it falls over but gets up again in a minute. If you cut the demon's head off with a special sword, it's done and won't heal itself.

[lytokk]

That sounds pretty good too. Mundane weapons can put them down, but keeping them from getting back up is another problem.

[Red Fel]

Alternatively, consider this.

Demons are their ilk are creatures born of emotions and thoughts. In many ways they are products of the human mind and will. Melee weapons can hurt them because they constitute a direct transfer of the will-to-destroy-demon through the medium of the held weapon - in essence, because the wielder really wants to put the demon down, that willpower is able to harm the demon on the spiritual level, from which it can't recover, as opposed to merely the physical level, from which it can. (In this context, even unarmed attacks could work, which could be pretty freaking cool.) By contrast, ranged weapons - while still powerful and somewhat effective - lose that ability to transmit the will-to-destroy-demon because they separate from the human wielder during firing. As a result, the damage they inflict is purely physical, which isn't enough to keep a demon down.

Under this paradigm, you no longer require weapons to be blessed or made from special materials - you simply need a strong-willed wielder. And because of the whole the-medium-doesn't-work-at-range issue, even though your snipers and gunners may have strong will, they're going to have to close to melee to finish the job. Although it does allow you to use suppressive fire to pin the baddies down before closing to range.

[Felhammer]

Maybe they have some sort of shield-like aura that deflects objects that move at a particular speed but cannot stop something as slow as an arrow or sword.

[CombatOwl]

Hey all...

First of all, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section...it seemed either this or homebrew, but since this is as much about fluff as mechanics I decided on here...

anyways, I am designing a story based on a demonic invasion into the material plane, in modern day. I like the idea of firearms not being very efficient against the demons, so the militaries of the world will eventually take to using more archaic weapons.(Navy SEALs with katana and Army soldiers in a phalanx just sounds cool, sue me)

My problem is, much as I like the idea, I just can't get into it if there's not a REASON for the firearms to be less effective. I can't just handwave it.
Part of the issue is that I still want firearms to be somewhat effective. Demon hoard or not, a flight of A-10s is still going to cause some damage, I just want to put the main focus on melee weapons instead of small-arms. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I've looked at other fiction, and the best ones I've found are 1)Dune, where shields pretty much negate ANY ranged combat,
2) Starwars, where the melee users are just so awesome they don't need to fear most small-arms. or
3) any variety of post-apocalyptic fiction where ammo is in short supply.

None of these really fit the theme or feel that I'm going for...help?

Magic. Literally, just handwave it with inexplicable magic. It should confuse the hell out of the militaries of the world--bullets just don't work but melee weapons do and no one can figure out why.

[BWR]

Swords are magic. Problem solved. At least, that's how I solved it in a semi-similar game.

If you're looking for real world reasons why some magic is affected by item A but not item B even if they do mostly the same thing, you're in for disppointment.

The best option apart from handwaving it: special materials. There is some special material that demons are weak against, and it's rare enough that making lots of bullets is not feasible, but common enough that you can make a ****-load of swords.
That or some mumbo-jumbo about how a living soul actively guiding and forcing the blade makes it penetrate easier than plain matter.

[Nerd-o-rama]

You could just make them vulnerable to cold iron (as in, iron that was forged over a cold anvil, and not melted and cast as any hypothetical iron-core bullets would have to be. Not to mention a relatively hard metal like iron would severely overpenetrate as a bullet...).

Alternatively, go the Evangelion route and just say you have to neutralize a mystical shield first, which requires being in close proximity. Similiar to the Dune route except MAGIC and WILLPOWER instead of just using slow-moving weapons.

Alternatively alternatively, the demons all fight at melee range and are incredibly hard to put down with firearms before they close due to supernatural toughness and a lack of internal organs. This is the reasoning CthulhuTech has for arming its human special forces with katanas as well as machine guns, and why you should always carry a fire axe if you're vampire-hunting in the World of Darkness.

[Forrestfire]

Alternatively, consider <snip>

I was going to say something similar. Demons might be magical creatures based more on thoughts, ideas, and concepts than actual "flesh and blood," and, as such, are hard or impossible to kill with some weapons. Maybe more archaic weapons are good against demons because that is what they believe can hurt and kill them.. After all, who ever heard of a knight in shining armor shooting a gun? These demons sure haven't, presumably, but they probably use melee weapons themselves. Likewise, their weaknesses to "holy" weapons or cold iron or whatever would be born of the same concept: their subconscious thinks that hurts them, so it does.

If this is the case, then maybe the first demons to enter the world simply ignored guns and bullets, not making the connection between "loud noise from that metal thing" and "I should be dead right now." Because of this event, news of the demons being immune to bullets spread, and became ingrained in the human subconscious. In order to hurt a demon with a modern weapon, you'd need to completely convince both the wielder and the victim that it would, and as anyone trying to unlearn a bad habit will tell you, an ingrained concept is hard to forget.

Possibly, the current state of things is that demons (through observing guns on "real" things) have learned a bit of the concept of being hurt by guns and explosions, but because of that initial event, the belief is only enough that they can be wounded, but resist them heavily. A column of tanks or a squadron of fighter jets are going to take down a demon, but they still resist anything but good old swords. Things like holy bullets might also work, balancing the resistance to bullets with the fact that a demon knows that a blessed weapon can hurt him.

In this sort of scenario, you can also get some really neat plot points and interactions. Think about what might happen when, as a hypothetical example, someone who has never heard of demons (maybe he was in a secret prison during the start of the invasion, and was deployed because he has a special set of skills, or escaped and got caught in a fight) takes a sniper rifle to one. His belief in the lethality of his rifle, when combined with the demon's subconscious belief that he can be hurt (even if it's just a little bit) by a bullet, might end up with the demon getting killed or incredibly wounded by a single shot. Of course, because of the way belief works, the sniper himself would then have confirmation that bullets work, and on the demon side, they've learned that there's some random guy who can instantly kill demons with his deadly rifle. Hell, the force of that belief might work in the sniper's favor, empowering his shots more as the demons' belief of his deadliness begins to reflect on reality.

This hypothetical sniper might become the demons' boogeyman, a shadow that can kill even the strongest monster and pierce the greatest barriers with a single shot. Slowly, as his legend spreads, he might find himself getting stronger, faster, and deadlier, or gaining magic abilities. If a species of concept- and belief-based beings views someone as a deadly monster, the thing in the darkness, an unstoppable terror that can only be fled from, not fought, what sort of reflection might these beliefs have on the real world? Even if he dies, he might find himself brought back by the sheer force of the story, because what kind of boogeyman would he be if he could be killed by some random demon?

Anyway, that's quite the tangent I've gone on. tl;dr: one possibility is that demons are belief-based, and their belief in what their weaknesses are, combined with the humans' belief that they can't hurt them with guns, would lend them a respectable resistance to guns and only guns.

[DarkKensai]

Sorry it took me so long to respond.

A lot of good ideas, thanks everyone. I especially like the idea that demons are linked somehow to willpower and perception. I'm gonna play with that a bit.

Much appreciated.