View Full Version : Fantasy Space-Time Theory

2014-04-03, 09:55 AM
I wanted to blend modern Space-time Theory to include fantasy elements. I could use some help to round out the rough edges.

Origin of the Multi-verse:
The broadly accepted theory for the origin and evolution of our universe is the Big Bang model, which states that the universe began as an incredibly hot, dense point just over thirteen billion years ago.

The Big Bang was not an explosion in space, as the theory's name might suggest. Instead, it was the appearance of space everywhere in the universe, researchers have said. According to the Big Bang theory, the universe was born as a very hot, very dense, single point in space.

Let us suppose that rather than a single universe, three were created a this point. Each of these universes would have similar concepts of the Space-Time, but in different proportions. A multitude of variables can be grouped in to three broad categories, which are essential to the formation of any universe. These three categories are inflation, energy, and matter. Let’s call our universe the Prime Material Plane, and the other two the Ethereal Plane and the Astral Plane.

When the Prime Material Plane was very young — it underwent an incredible growth spurt. During this burst of expansion, which is known as inflation, the universe grew exponentially and doubled in size at least 90 times. After inflation, the universe continued to grow, but at a slower rate. A great deal of energy was expanded to fuel this inflation. Further, tightly compacted matter scattered across this vast space. As space expanded, the universe cooled. This cooling then converted more of the existing energy into matter.

Light chemical elements were created within the first three minutes of the universe's formation. For the first 380,000 years after the Big Bang, however, the intense heat from the universe's creation made it essentially too hot for light to shine. Atoms crashed together with enough force to break up into dense, opaque plasma of protons, neutrons, and electrons that scattered light like fog.

About 380,000 years after the Big Bang, matter cooled enough for electrons to combine with nuclei to form neutral atoms. This phase is known as "recombination”, and the absorption of free electrons caused the universe to become transparent.

During this time, clumps of gas collapsed enough to form the very first stars and galaxies. The emitted ultraviolet light from these energetic events cleared out and destroyed most of the surrounding neutral hydrogen gas. The process of re-ionization, plus the clearing of foggy hydrogen gas, caused the universe to become transparent to ultraviolet light for the first time.

Many scientists think that suns and solar systems were formed from a giant, rotating cloud of gas and dust known as the solar nebula. As gravity caused the nebulas to collapse, they spun faster and flattened into a disk. During this phase, most of the material was pulled toward the center to form stars. Even now, the universe continues to expand as new galaxies, stars, and solar systems are created.

Of course, modern scientific theory does not entertain the possibility of magical energy. But, if we are going to focus on the Fantasy based multi-verse, then magic energy will have to be part of the equation. I contend that magical energy is another form of energy different from gravity, radiation, and a multitude of others, but equally important. Further, magical energy would be lumped in with the energy category that is essential for universe creation. Thus, as the universe expands, magical energy is also scattered throughout creation, some in large concentrations, and some in minute quantities.

This concept is then expanded to include;
Ethereal Plane, Inner (elemental) planes, Astral Plane, and the Outer Planes. If you want to review these aspects they can be found here -> Fantasy Space-Time Theory (https://sites.google.com/site/pointsystemgaming/fantasy-time-space-theory)

The website also includes a few pictures that illustrate the temporal concepts.

Comments & suggestions are welcome, and criticism is needed, especially if you have a firm understanding of Space-time.

Thanks in advance;

2014-04-03, 10:52 AM
The thing with magic is that it has very human-scale characteristics that seem to be inherent to how it usually works. For example, spells often know what a person is, what a mind is, how to divine upon the future or interface with the user's visual system or other fairly complex tasks. This is difficult to explain for a 'fundamental force' - gravity, electromagnetism, etc are, by comparison, much much simpler in that they basically just mediate one kind of interaction at the tiniest levels. All of the complexity of the observable universe doesn't originate from the fundamental forces being complex, but rather by the process by which these things are integrated into structures of increasing scale; e.g. while the EM force is responsible for most of chemistry at the lowest level, in practice the complexity of chemistry isn't directly traceable to the complexity of the EM force but is instead due to the combinatorics of the various elements, the geometric structure of space causing there to be certain patterns of energy levels of electrons for lone atoms and for pairs, triplets, etc of atoms, being at the right temperature range to make everything muddy (chemistry at 1000000K or 1K would probably be quite boring by comparison), etc.

So in this sense, what mages call magic probably shouldn't be a fundamental force in the same way gravity is. Maybe computers and information technology are a good example. Computers are powered by electricity, but its the mathematics and logic of non-linear processes and 'gates' and so on that really define computers - you could build them out of water wheels and pipes, or out of simulated cat behavior in Dwarf Fortress, and their essence is preserved. Similarly, I'd say that magic would be the intersection of some sort of esoteric idea or understanding that exists independently of its physical representation (the way that theories of information relate to computers regardless of whether they're built to use electricity or water), then combined with a physical representation that makes its exploration convenient for people in a way that it wouldn't be in the real world.

For example, lets say, independent of physical representation, that you had a way to specify some simple fact about the future, as perceived from your viewpoint. There might be strong constraints about what you can specify, etc, etc. Within that abstract framework, you'd have something that would look a lot like (certain kinds of) magic. Then you tie that abstract framework in with the physical realization in the fantasy universe, e.g. the particles associated with the Astral plane entangle across time, letting you build short time-loops that can enact quantum mechanical wave function collapse based on future measurements yet to be done or something like that. So a specific example - Bob, through manipulating the Astral particles, can specify that two particular stones will be within a mile of each other at a particular time tomorrow. The universe is then collapsed into the set of states for which this constraint is true, and the observed state of the universe is sampled over the likelihoods of various methods of making this be true. If Bob hands one of the stones to a traveler, he has created a compulsion spell for that traveler to seek out the owner of the other stone. The neat thing is that it works without Bob having to understand anything about the workings of the human brain, and without the universe having to be 'conscious' or treat the mind as somehow special - its all built into the path of least resistance to satisfy the constraint.

Anyhow, that's the sort of direction I'd take for trying to design something like this.

2014-04-03, 12:24 PM
Well articulated;

I do see your point, in fact, I do use the ‘path of least resistance’ reference later in my development of Localized Dimensional Theory (https://sites.google.com/site/pointsystemgaming/fantasy-time-space-theory/dimensional-theory)(which I just finished posting on the website).

I also see Magic as both a function of a simple energy type, and, as you described, it also has some additional properties. During the shaping, focusing, and projecting magic, ‘the actual programming part’, the magical energy then can ‘feel’ or rather translate the actual intent of the person casting the spell. I would not go so far as to say that magic is has a consciousness, but it does have a sympathetic nature to it.

Thanks NichG

2014-04-05, 12:38 AM
I believe modern physics (https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/728bc534496e), courtesy of the quantum nature of cosmic inflation, supports at least the notion of multiple "Prime Material" planes (consistent with standard D&D cosmology). Stretching what is known/conjectured about the real Universe to fit D&D notions, at least.

I would say that to get some of the zaniest magical effects (say, inter-planar teleportation) or even some rather basic ones (the ones that violate conservation of matter or energy, say) you will probably want to treat magic as something rather fundamental. Perhaps some kind of physical field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_(physics))?

2014-04-05, 03:04 AM
I would say that to get some of the zaniest magical effects (say, inter-planar teleportation) or even some rather basic ones (the ones that violate conservation of matter or energy, say) you will probably want to treat magic as something rather fundamental. Perhaps some kind of physical field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_(physics))?

My point in the post above was basically that 'fundamental' interactions are really simple. At that bare level, its difficult to build much complexity into the underlying structure of physical fields (at least, compared to the complexity of, say, a bacterium). The source of that kind of complexity in the universe is usually not the bare-level fields, but rather the fact that there are like 15-30 scales between the field and macroscopic reality. And the various structures that exist at all of those scales provide the building blocks for higher scales and so on and so on, to create very elaborate things.

So adding a new 'fundamental force' doesn't actually give you very much leeway to do much, because it demands that you explain all of those 15-30 scales connecting it to the macroscopic (relevant) effects. And really what will make it 'magic' or whatever will be the details of those scales.

To put it another way, chemistry and computer engineering are both basically driven by the same 'fundamental force', and that fundamental force mathematically speaking is just 'the field whose conserved charge is a signed scalar and whose potential is a 4-vector'.

2014-04-05, 01:46 PM
Pathfinder has a book called Distant Worlds dealing with this... The intro reads like this:

We are not alone...

The greatest sages and spellcasters of Golarion have long understood this fact, recognizing that there are more worlds than simply the one on which they reside. Every scholar knows that devils, angels, and stranger things lie just beyond the walls of the Material Plane, and even weak spellcasters call on the denizens of other realms to do their bidding. Yet the Material Plane itself retains wonders undreamed of by those who walk the planes, its strange races and vistas separated not by dimensions or planar walls, but by vast gulfs of empty space. The Pathfinder campaign setting focuses primarily on the world of Golarion, and this book is an introduction to that planet’s solar system, an overview of the many worlds revolving around the brilliant yellow star that is Golarion’s sun.

Note that the aim of this book is not to create a science fiction version of the Pathfinder RPG rules or to present a whole new campaign setting for each of Golarion’s sister planets. Rather, this book is designed to help characters from Golarion visit other worlds using the existing rules. Though some of the civilizations presented here may never have heard of Golarion, seeing it only as a slowly moving dot in the night sky, this book is concerned with them primarily in the context of how they might affect adventurers from Golarion. And make no mistake: these worlds do affect Golarion.

Though the average peasant or city merchant might know nothing of astronomy beyond a few constellations, contact between the worlds happens all the time. From the crashed spaceship that forms the Silver Mount in Numeria, to the Osirian pharaohs’ obsession with (and perhaps guidance from) Aucturn and the Dark Tapestry, to the elves’ mysterious refuge of Sovyrian and the Doorway to the Red Star in the jungles of the Mwangi Expanse, Golarion is stitched to its siblings by dangerous magical pathways, as well as by those bizarre creatures that come through them. The rest of the solar system constantly exerts its ties and influence on Golarion, and to pretend otherwise is to leave the planet dangerously vulnerable.


The Dark Tapestry (IE: empty space, dotted with stars) is all a part of the Material Plane. Therefore, Space is but the endless expanse of the material plane.

2014-04-17, 01:18 PM
Yes yes, a physical field, that’s puts thing into perspective (force, direction, and particles). Great help guys! Now to do more research …yes, more research.

…gravitational field strength is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the gravitating object.” This helps greatly.