RPing, party cohesion and the tricky balance

[Silus]

Amazingly this isn't a thread about me complaining about my group. Crazy, I know.

Anyway, a brief rundown of the situation before we dive into the question at hand:

My group just started a NWoD vampire game last week and were kind enough to inform me from the outset that there will be manipulation, both by the NPCs and the PCs themselves, which honestly makes things easier for me (Instead of saying there will be no manipulation and there being tons for example). So anyway, I opted to play a mousy and shy research monkey kiiiiiinda like if you mixed Velma with Fluttershy. One of the other players is playing a Daeva clan vamp with the Lust vice.

So my character found out some information about the initial plot and was going to share it with the party. Unfortunately, she's not good in groups of people she doesn't know and the information came out as a whisper, then softer as a repeat was requested, then a scared squeak upon a second request. So the Daeva opted to Dominate her to force her to get over her nervousness and fear, which I was ok with. Then the Daeva's bloodline/clan quirk kicked in (His character must indulge in his Vice when an opportunity presents itself otherwise he loses 2 Willpower).

Needless to say, the Daeva had mind-controlled sex with my little bookworm. A little uncomfortable for me as a player (Mostly on the DM's teasing of us to RP it out) but quite understandable given the characters.

So here's the question/issue that I'm looking at.

My vamp girl is pretty smart (4 dots in Intelligence) and knows vampires pretty well (3 dots Occult). By all reasoning, she'd be able to figure out that she was dominated and more or less forced to have sex with the other vamp. The power in question made her think that it was her idea then lose interest in the power-user shortly after it wears off.

"I've never done that before, so why did I do it?"
"Well he's a Daeva and Daeva can....oh God, did he dominate me?" *Runs to research Daeva*

Anyway, if she figures it out, the idea is to have her become affected by PTSD regarding the experience as she more or less considers it rape. This would, at the least, lead to massive mistrust between her and the rest of the party (or at least the male characters) and almost outright hostility towards the Daeva responsible (Also an aversion to people touching her, maybe put up a facade of "It's okay, it doesn't bother me").

So the issue/question is, should I put aside a logical RP character progression for the sake of party cohesion, or should the character development take priority?

I know the above is a bit long winded and kinda confusing, so I'll endeavor to clarify anything that's not clear.

[Red Fel]

First off, shame on the ST for trying to get you guys to RP it. If that kind of scene causes the players discomfort, then you drop a curtain on it, full stop.

That said, you can resolve this with a simple question: How human is your vamp?

I'll explain. For an ordinary human, there are several options available in terms of one's psychological reaction to such an event, and none of them do well for party cohesion.

But vampires aren't human. They look at reality, at life (or un-life) through an entirely different lens. For example, vampires know for a fact that there exists a power that allows them to utterly control the mind and will of others. They accept this, for the most part; to many vampires, Dominate is as natural a thing to do as engaging in conversation. It's simply a thing one does, like walking, talking, or drinking blood.

Which raises another issue. It really forces a person to redefine concepts of right and wrong, and personal violations and such, when one must feed on the blood of the living to survive.

I'm not saying your character should be unaffected by what happened; far from it. What I'm saying instead is that there are more options available to you than the standard array, which seems to consist either of hiding from or becoming violent towards the offender in question. Being a vampire, there is a bigger world out there, and you see things more broadly. You have centuries in which to sort out what has happened, rather than mere years.

I suggest vengeance. Methodical, cold, calculating vengeance. Not swift, not sudden, and definitely not foreseeable. Don't set aside your planned character progression; instead, add a dimension to it. You say the character is a nerdy, shy, bookworm-type, the kind with a fascination with and a penchant for knowledge. Well, now it's not just knowledge for its own sake; this character can have a new goal, a darker one, in addition to her prior aims. In the alternative, developing a healthy sense of paranoia isn't a terrible idea for any vamp, particularly one who just experienced something this disturbing. And being a bookish sort, it shouldn't be too hard to research all sorts of exciting ways to keep anyone from hurting her in any way ever. Perhaps preemptively.

Vampires aren't as quick to experience personality changes as humans are. They take their time, they bury their emotions and weaknesses. They appear to move on, looking to the rest of the world as they always did. Don't let the fact that your character is either (1) afraid of or (2) vindictive towards this character impact party cohesion.

For the time being, anyways.

[BWR]

In short, should party cohesion come first, over what would otherwise be good character development and roleplaying?
In a word: yes.

RPGs are collaborative efforts and everyone is there to have fun. While in books and movies it's perfectly acceptable to have one character steal the limelight (there usually is a limited set of protagonists anyway), it's generally a bad idea let one character and player overshadow the other Ps and Cs. Sure, for individual scenes it's ok but over the course of entires sessions or large parts of the campaign it's not ok. If the rest of the group is ok with it, it's ok, but in general it's a good recipe for discontent.

In this particular instance, there's no need to be shy: this was definitely rape. It's a touchy subject and one players and GMs should be careful about introducing into their games, much less subjecting PCs to it. If all parties are cool with it, no problem, but if they aren't (and is seems like you weren't entirely ok with it), then it's bad thing to do. In this case, since the other player is definitely at fault, any fallout in game or out of game is his fault, and I would say you are perfectly justified in responding however you wish in game and telling everybody off out of game.

[CombatOwl]

Amazingly this isn't a thread about me complaining about my group. Crazy, I know.

Anyway, a brief rundown of the situation before we dive into the question at hand:

My group just started a NWoD vampire game last week and were kind enough to inform me from the outset that there will be manipulation, both by the NPCs and the PCs themselves, which honestly makes things easier for me (Instead of saying there will be no manipulation and there being tons for example). So anyway, I opted to play a mousy and shy research monkey kiiiiiinda like if you mixed Velma with Fluttershy. One of the other players is playing a Daeva clan vamp with the Lust vice.

So my character found out some information about the initial plot and was going to share it with the party. Unfortunately, she's not good in groups of people she doesn't know and the information came out as a whisper, then softer as a repeat was requested, then a scared squeak upon a second request. So the Daeva opted to Dominate her to force her to get over her nervousness and fear, which I was ok with. Then the Daeva's bloodline/clan quirk kicked in (His character must indulge in his Vice when an opportunity presents itself otherwise he loses 2 Willpower).

Needless to say, the Daeva had mind-controlled sex with my little bookworm. A little uncomfortable for me as a player (Mostly on the DM's teasing of us to RP it out) but quite understandable given the characters.

So here's the question/issue that I'm looking at.

My vamp girl is pretty smart (4 dots in Intelligence) and knows vampires pretty well (3 dots Occult). By all reasoning, she'd be able to figure out that she was dominated and more or less forced to have sex with the other vamp. The power in question made her think that it was her idea then lose interest in the power-user shortly after it wears off.

"I've never done that before, so why did I do it?"
"Well he's a Daeva and Daeva can....oh God, did he dominate me?" *Runs to research Daeva*

Anyway, if she figures it out, the idea is to have her become affected by PTSD regarding the experience as she more or less considers it rape. This would, at the least, lead to massive mistrust between her and the rest of the party (or at least the male characters) and almost outright hostility towards the Daeva responsible (Also an aversion to people touching her, maybe put up a facade of "It's okay, it doesn't bother me").

So the issue/question is, should I put aside a logical RP character progression for the sake of party cohesion, or should the character development take priority?

I know the above is a bit long winded and kinda confusing, so I'll endeavor to clarify anything that's not clear.

Do the proper vampire thing and arrange for the Daeva to die. Remove all doubt. Hire some assassins (anonymously, over the internet, of course), and feed the Daeva some bad information that leads him into the trap. This is the only way to be certain. If you're the person who feeds them the information they need to get things done, this is easy to arrange.

[Hyena]

The solution is obvious. Hire assamites (or whatever is the NWoD version) to kill him. Or just get to know where he lives and ask your ghoul to introduce his hideout to a little sunshine. That's the way kindred society works - he dared to dominate you, the penalty must be death. Of course, nothing must be traced back to you, because this is also how kindred society works.
If the player raises a fuss, remind him that World of Darkness was always about intrigue.

[Silus]

Which raises another issue. It really forces a person to redefine concepts of right and wrong, and personal violations and such, when one must feed on the blood of the living to survive.

I'm not saying your character should be unaffected by what happened; far from it. What I'm saying instead is that there are more options available to you than the standard array, which seems to consist either of hiding from or becoming violent towards the offender in question. Being a vampire, there is a bigger world out there, and you see things more broadly. You have centuries in which to sort out what has happened, rather than mere years.

I suggest vengeance. Methodical, cold, calculating vengeance. Not swift, not sudden, and definitely not foreseeable. Don't set aside your planned character progression; instead, add a dimension to it. You say the character is a nerdy, shy, bookworm-type, the kind with a fascination with and a penchant for knowledge. Well, now it's not just knowledge for its own sake; this character can have a new goal, a darker one, in addition to her prior aims. In the alternative, developing a healthy sense of paranoia isn't a terrible idea for any vamp, particularly one who just experienced something this disturbing. And being a bookish sort, it shouldn't be too hard to research all sorts of exciting ways to keep anyone from hurting her in any way ever. Perhaps preemptively.

Vampires aren't as quick to experience personality changes as humans are. They take their time, they bury their emotions and weaknesses. They appear to move on, looking to the rest of the world as they always did. Don't let the fact that your character is either (1) afraid of or (2) vindictive towards this character impact party cohesion.

For the time being, anyways.

While vengeance is on the table, for this character, it's not really an option right out the gate.

1. Not enough status or prestige in the city (It's New York City and each borough is controlled by a different Prince with Queens being a warzone). She's a bookstore owner from Wiliamsburg in Brooklyn, not a big mover and shaker in vampire politics.

2. This character is designed (on a personality level) to be a woobie, or as much of one as possible. This is because 1) it works with the character concept (a reluctant vampire that's doing their best to hold onto their humanity) and 2) it helps negate some player-on-player manipulation in a "Well now I feel kinda bad" way. The idea is while manipulating her is possible and very likely to happen (She's pretty subservient out of fear), there's no...power (?) behind it, no sense of accomplishment, and (the idea is) you'll feel like you just kicked a puppy.

3. I myself am not good at manipulation at all. I've not the head for subtle intrigue (I'm not an "evil" or manipulative player for the most part) and I doubt I can out-fox the other players.


Do the proper vampire thing and arrange for the Daeva to die. Remove all doubt. Hire some assassins (anonymously, over the internet, of course), and feed the Daeva some bad information that leads him into the trap. This is the only way to be certain. If you're the person who feeds them the information they need to get things done, this is easy to arrange.

Well the current ideas of vengeance is A) arrange for people to bust into his haven, throw him in a box or something and dump him in Central Park right before sunset (Central park is lousy with werewolves apparently) or B) pop obfuscate and, while waiting for a subway, shove him in front of a train.

Failing that, she's gotten on rather well with the Prince that controls Brooklyn, so I figure she could say something to him in the hopes that he's all "Oh HELL NO, YOU DUN GOOFED NOW SUCKA" or the equivalent thereof.

Best case solution I think (and I may be overestimating the other players here) is I just go through with the PTSD thing, like REALLY play it up and play it straight to the point just shy of uncomfortableness and, hopefully, show that what happened really affected my character (shaken to the core at the implications), causing the other players to step up and try to stop it should it happen again.

Failing that I'll work on Status (Werewolves) and see if I can't arrange for them to pay the Daeva a daytime visit.

[Red Fel]

Failing that, she's gotten on rather well with the Prince that controls Brooklyn, so I figure she could say something to him in the hopes that he's all "Oh HELL NO, YOU DUN GOOFED NOW SUCKA" or the equivalent thereof.

Well, why didn't you list that among our assets in the first place?

Having the attention of the Prince - even if it's only casual or in passing - is kind of a big deal. And I could see you playing it up, and staying in character as well.

You see, Princes love to have pets. Broken enemies, morality pets, trophy vamps, status symbols. Get that Prince a pet; Princes love pets. And your character, as described, is a Woobie - the perfect morality pet. A shy, smart bookworm is exactly the sort the Prince wants to keep around; someone easily manipulated and intimidated by the Prince, more afraid of the Prince than anyone else (and with good reason), who harbors no ambition for the Prince's influence. A Woobie is a walking litmus test for the Princes' friends and enemies alike.

My suggestion? Arrange with the ST out-of-character. The Prince takes a casual interest in your character. Then start your suggested progression of PTSD, becoming nervous or withdrawn or what have you. When the Prince expresses curiosity with the change in your character's behavior, she will - nervously - explain herself.

Now your character gets to remain a Woobie, and you've handed the gun to the ST. Rest assured that any plot you could conceive, any scheme you could contrive, a capable ST can do worse to a character. In this way, your character remains more or less the same (albeit traumatized), while the offender gets his comeuppance.

After all, nobody messes with the Prince's toys.

Disclaimer: This is the same ST who tried to get you to play out the scene, so mileage may vary. Further, chances are that you'd be trading the Daeva's domination for the Prince's, so take that for what it's worth.

[neonchameleon]

1: Playing out a mind controlled rape is NOT OK if there is any reluctance on the part of one of the players. Seriously, you need to speak with both the Storyteller and the Daeva player.

2: Your biggest asset is the Prince. You probably can work out in character you were mind controlled and raped fairly easily (mind control from vampires is well known). And someone has been screwing with the Prince's friends.

3: Distrusting the Daeva is sensible - but project it onto anyone with Dominate rather than the rest of the party.

4: Did the Daeva feed from you in the sex? If so they are one third of the way to being blood bound.

[Tengu_temp]

The Daeva already broke party cohesion when he raped your character. Apparently his precious 2 willpower is worth more for him than an ally. Turn everyone you can against him - the rest of the group, the Prince, other NPCs - and make him pay.

Also, if it's not blatantly obvious that everyone at the table is okay with it, rape in the party is just a huge no-no.

[Sith_Happens]

I'm with the crowd saying that the Daeva has made himself fair game for any kind of vengeance you might care to inflict, up to and including killing him.

Of course, killing him is too obvious, too easy, and too likely to destroy the Woobie image you're going for in one fell swoop (unless you're really good at playing the "I didn't want to do it, but he made me!" angle). So here's my suggestion:

Your character figures out what happened, but decides to play dumb. She pretends to get all clingy and start falling for the Daeva. After all, you said that that was her first time, so obviously it must have been something special, right? Assuming he falls for the act, things can go one of three ways:

1. The Daeva takes advantage of your character's "affections." As far as he knows she's a total doormat with the hots for him, a.k.a. the perfect new toy, so why not play along? Keeping up the act will presumably require your character to put up with additional sex and other degradations, but that's the cost of getting close to the Daeva. Close enough to start slipping him her blood. Once he's nice and blood-bound she can drop the act with her sympathy mostly intact; if any of the other PCs comment in-character on what she did, her response is that she didn't want to hurt him because she "knows" the rape was his bloodline's fault and not his (I assume that bloodline quirks are easy to learn/research)*, but she had to do something to make sure it didn't happen again. In the end she's still thoroughly a Woobie, just a creepy one that people know better than to screw with or underestimate.

2. He tries to brush her off, possibly with the "It was just sex" line. The natural response, of course, is for your character to (pretend to) be extremely hurt by this, constantly complaining/moping to the other PCs and asking them how she can win the Daeva over. Eventually they're going to have to decide whether to tell her what really happened.

2a. If they do tell her, you're free to proceed with someone else's proposed revenge plot, except that now you can guilt the other PCs into helping you. If any of them refuse to help, then they're just as bad as the Daeva and have painted targets on themselves too.

2b. If they don't tell her, they're accomplices to the crime and have painted targets on themselves too. Proceed with the "get on the Prince's good side and then tell him" plan, but the Daeva is no longer the only one who comes out in your story as deserving of Princely wrath (hey, as long you're taking down your teammates, you might as well take down all your teammates; if the other players are good sports they'll be more impressed than anything else). Keep playing dumb with the party so they don't see it coming until it's too late.

2c. If they don't tell her and actually try to help her with her "dilemma," then you can either treat it as a 2b (and the rest of the party has damned themselves even more) or wait and see if their advice/help works, in which case you've worked your way into situation 1 (which is my preferred outcome, because the best revenge is a revenge that never ends:smallamused:).

3. The Daeva tells your character himself that he'd Dominated her, hopefully in front of the party and/or other witnesses. Bad move. Proceed with whatever revenge plot suits your fancy, with everyone who heard the confession in the palm of your hand.

Happy hunting.:belkar:

* Just to be clear, I'm not actually absolving the Daeva of any blame for not just taking the Willpower hit. I'm just saying that in-character one could easily think that or pretend to think it.

[Silus]

I'd like to point out, for clarity, that the ST did not seriously suggest RPing the rape scene. It was one of those sarcastic "I am obviously just kidding" sort of things. Granted, it was still met with flat "No"s. The whole thing was handwaved.

Honestly, the weird part was when the Daeva decided to make it a threesome with a ghoul under his control.

But yes, I'll at least get with the ST and see if we can't work something out with regards to revenge.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The Daeva already broke party cohesion when he raped your character. Apparently his precious 2 willpower is worth more for him than an ally. Turn everyone you can against him - the rest of the group, the Prince, other NPCs - and make him pay.

Also, if it's not blatantly obvious that everyone at the table is okay with it, rape in the party is just a huge no-no.
Ding-ding-ding!

In short, should party cohesion come first, over what would otherwise be good character development and roleplaying?
In a word: yes.
This answer will vary by game. Party cohesion is not synonymous with the collaborative nature of RPGs. (For a quick-and-easy example, see Paranoia, but Smallville and Monsterhearts are also awesome examples of situations with low party cohesion but high player collaboration. Well, except maybe for Paranoia, but it's a special case.)

In Vampire, playing the game means being ready to screw over other characters. So, "party cohesion" isn't really a thing. Not a big thing, anyhow.

[BWR]

And I've played a Vampire game, and a Kult game, where lack of party cohesion ruined the game. Some backstabbing and betrayal is one thing, but if the characters never feel as though they have a reason to work together and actively avoid eachother to the extent where they never meet up, then you don't really have a game. Sure, you can work around that with external enemies forcing people together, but that doesn't work for all games or campaigns the GM wants to run.

[ReaderAt2046]

I would agree with BWR that the Daeva has already broken party cohesion to splinters, so don't worry about that. My own recommendation? Make the rest of the party absolutely furious at the Daeva for this. Go full throttle on the PTSD, paranoia, poisoning of relationships, etc. Make this a huge issue that the rest of the party has to acknowledge and react to. This seems to me the best way to play your character's Woobie-ness in face of something like this. Best possible scenario would probably be the Daeva acknowledging how wrong what he did was, going through massive amounts of Wangst, and hopefully developing as a character.

[TheCountAlucard]

And here I feel like the odd man out for wanting to point out that Daeva don't get Dominate - Ventrue do. :smallconfused:

[Talyn]

And here I feel like the odd man out for wanting to point out that Daeva don't get Dominate - Ventrue do. :smallconfused:

I was going to post something similar.

Things like the occurrence are one of the reasons that I generally avoid playing Vampire games. In other WoD games, that kind of horrific activity (that is, domination and rape) is always an option, sort of in the background. In Vampire, though, it's front and center, because of the weird psychosexual politics written into both the vampire powers and into the vampire power structure.

All of Vampire is about rape. The whole game. Every time a vampire feeds, he is taking something precious from another person, utterly rejecting their humanity, their wishes and their rights, and breaking their trust and their security in order to feed their own selfishness. The worst part is that they can get the victim to enjoy it, further alienating them from them their humanity. And this is the core mechanic about which the entire supernatural gaming system runs.

On the one hand, the Daeva's actions are perfectly acceptable in-character and normal in-universe. On the other hand, the player who built a character who is specifically designed to be a rapist (Daeva with Lust and Dominate really has that as a primary character tic) ought to be ashamed of himself. On the third hand, having your character suffer from PTSD from it reveals a monstrous hypocrisy - it's not that different from what she does every night to get the blood she needs, except that now she's the victim and not the oppressor.

If I was in your position, I'd ask the storyteller to run a different game, or maybe find a different group - seriously, do you really want to be hanging out with these people? Operating on the assumption that isn't the direction you want to take it, I would advise you to definitely play to your character's strengths. Keep your head down and don't make waves until you can take your vengeance. See if your Prince is okay with those kinds of shenanigans, and if he isn't then get the Daeva to admit to his actions within earshot of someone the Prince trusts.

Oh, and spend your XP on being able to resist the Dominate. If you've got PTSD (or at least the soulless equivalent to it), a common manifestation is a rejection of victimhood and overcompensation to make sure it never happens again. Because I don't play a lot of Vampire, I'm not really sure about the mechanics behind Domination resistance, but I know there is one. Invest heavily in it. You don't want to be the spanner in the works of your own revenge if you get Dominated at an inopportune time.

[Silus]

it's not that different from what she does every night to get the blood she needs, except that now she's the victim and not the oppressor.

Interesting fact actually, this character is designed to NOT feed on people. Prudence as a virtue for sticking to her guns and Coil of Blood so she can subsist on non-human blood. In game she's in talks with a slaughterhouse in Jersey to buy monthly supplies of preserved cattle blood.


And here I feel like the odd man out for wanting to point out that Daeva don't get Dominate - Ventrue do. :smallconfused:

Well it was...Entrancement? I think? The guy is trying to have his character go "Worship me I'm head of a blood cult" kinda thing. Whatever the discipline line with Awe is.

[Narren]

So he has to rape every single person he dominates or uses majesty on or he loses 2 willpower? It almost sounds like either the player, the GM, or both have designed this character to NEED to rape people. I'm not opposed to an NPC like that, but I'd feel a little creepy playing that character.

Anyways....I'd kill him. Be as slow and subtle as you need to be to get away with it, but I'd do it ASAP. Not sure if your group is ok with PvP, but apparently rape is ok, so murder shouldn't be a problem.

[Mr Beer]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of PC on PC rape...someone who thinks this is a good character concept has issues IMO. I probably wouldn't want to play in this game at all but if I did, I would have zero qualms about taking this guy out, preferably as nastily as possible.

[Lorsa]

Not having read through everything yet I would like to answer the first post, perhaps with a few questions.

Daevas can certainly have the Dominate discipline but are more known for Majesty (and Celerity and Vigor). Was it actual Dominate or the use of Entracement that was in place? Usually the after-effects are quite different from each other.

It's certainly possible to figure out powers have been used on you, vampires do that all the time. And yes, it was rape so you should treat it as such. Remember that vampires are very different from humans though and cares about things very differently.

Most vampires tend to not care about sex at all after a while of being undead. It's just some movement that may feel a little bit nice but hardly like it does for living humans. Drinking blood is the only pleasure a vampire has left. So it's quite possible to not feel quite as violated as a human would be.

As for party cohesion that isn't a thing I'd worry about for now. Play out the consequence in a way that you feel is appropriate to your character. No blame can be put on you really becuase the party cohesion has already been disrupted by two people; the GM and the player in question.

Firstly, the GM really shouldn't rule THAT as a situation to invoke the Daeve clan weakness. That's just horrible. It's meant to be problematic for the player, not traumatic for other characters/players. By using such a loose interpretation of when it is applied, it would be impossible to be a Daeva in your games. Since the character can basically use [insert mind-control power here] in ALL situations, this ruling says that he has to walk around and rape everyone he meets or else loose willpower points. Completely ridiculous. Add in the fact that vampires true pleasure is drinking blood then that's what the DM should've forced the player to do on your character (thus getting a blood bond) or alternatively make your character drink his blood and not resist the Kiss (this would be much much worse for your character though and would rightfully give you an excuse to kill him).

Secondly, the Daeva player could (and perhaps should) have spent the willpower point(s) for resisting the urge. If your group would have been truly interested in group cohesion then that's what he would've done. Unless he was really at 0 willpower, he made a choice to psychologically mess up your character so he can't really be upset with you for doing the logical thing after that event.

To make a long story short; if I had been the Daeva player I would have quit the game (or change clan) as playing a Daeva is clearly impossible with that GM. If I had been you then I also would have quit because playing the character you mentioned and then being sexually assaulted by another character is not fun at all.

Oh, just for the record, what clan is your character?

[Lorsa]

Interesting fact actually, this character is designed to NOT feed on people. Prudence as a virtue for sticking to her guns and Coil of Blood so she can subsist on non-human blood. In game she's in talks with a slaughterhouse in Jersey to buy monthly supplies of preserved cattle blood.

Sorry, but I just wanted to reply to this too before going to bed. Make sure to check with your GM first which rules he uses, because according to RAW, non-fresh blood (preserved blood bags etc) hardly gives any nourishment at all. Animal blood typically also gives less and the dminishing returns stack so you'd literally have to bathe in blood to get anything from it. I don't want to ruin your good plans, I just don't want you to get a bad surprise once they are finished because the GM is mean and didn't tell you beforehand. It's much better to drink the blood before the slaughter, perhaps setting yourself up as part of the process.

[Silus]

To make a long story short; if I had been the Daeva player I would have quit the game (or change clan) as playing a Daeva is clearly impossible with that GM. If I had been you then I also would have quit because playing the character you mentioned and then being sexually assaulted by another character is not fun at all.

Oh, just for the record, what clan is your character?

Well I plan to have a sidebar with the DM next session regarding not only the events of the previous session, but regarding the Daeva's clan "ability" and a more party-friendly interpretation. Also about the whole "I'm gonna go 120% Woobie, so be prepped" bit.

My character is a Mekhet of the Agonistes bloodline. Also, apparently the DM is okay with her being from Arkham, Massachusetts, so she's also a Miskatonic University graduate.

[Lorsa]

Well I plan to have a sidebar with the DM next session regarding not only the events of the previous session, but regarding the Daeva's clan "ability" and a more party-friendly interpretation. Also about the whole "I'm gonna go 120% Woobie, so be prepped" bit.

My character is a Mekhet of the Agonistes bloodline. Also, apparently the DM is okay with her being from Arkham, Massachusetts, so she's also a Miskatonic University graduate.

Seems like a good plan to have a chat with the GM. That specific interpretation is just nothing that would be tolerated in any of the groups I have played with (for group dynamic reasons if nothing else). I remember I once ruled the Daeva clan weakness forced a character to diablerise a NPC which is very bad in many ways but the player was totally okay with that (same vice even; Lust).

If you want to do something else than going Woobie (I had to look it up), you could plot an elaborate revenge scheme (you DO have Prudence as virtue after all). There's plenty of interesting things you could do as a Mekhet. You could learn the Daeva's secrets and sell them out to the competitor. You could offer your body (more sex) in exchange for the Daeva drinking your blood thus causing him to become blood-bonded (and considering the GMs vice rulings that shouldn't be too hard) to you. If you get Obfuscate 4 you could pretend to be a normal human at the Daeva's normal hunting grounds and act like an innocent victim so he will feed on you (again getting blood-bonded). Basically I think it serves him right to become your slave after having used his powers in such a manner on you.

[Silus]

Seems like a good plan to have a chat with the GM. That specific interpretation is just nothing that would be tolerated in any of the groups I have played with (for group dynamic reasons if nothing else). I remember I once ruled the Daeva clan weakness forced a character to diablerise a NPC which is very bad in many ways but the player was totally okay with that (same vice even; Lust).

If you want to do something else than going Woobie (I had to look it up), you could plot an elaborate revenge scheme (you DO have Prudence as virtue after all). There's plenty of interesting things you could do as a Mekhet. You could learn the Daeva's secrets and sell them out to the competitor. You could offer your body (more sex) in exchange for the Daeva drinking your blood thus causing him to become blood-bonded (and considering the GMs vice rulings that shouldn't be too hard) to you. If you get Obfuscate 4 you could pretend to be a normal human at the Daeva's normal hunting grounds and act like an innocent victim so he will feed on you (again getting blood-bonded). Basically I think it serves him right to become your slave after having used his powers in such a manner on you.

Actually, I was considering using her general subservient personality and overall friendliness to gather allies that, at a word, will rush to her aid. There's less incentive to mess with an individual when they're the local Prince's favorite subject (A subject that has no aspiration of overthrowing said prince and can be cowed with just a stern tone) or, heaven forbid, they're the lone vampire ally of the local werewolf packs.

While direct scheming is indeed in like...98% of vampire's skillsets, this character tends to go for deterrents or just "tattling" to resolve these sort of conflicts. How would the Prince of Brooklyn, with who my character has a pretty decent relationship with currently (I'd say a 7/10 on a hate/love scale), react to hearing that a Daeva from Manhattan raped a subject of his that he was fond of?

[Mr Beer]

How would the Prince of Brooklyn, with who my character has a pretty decent relationship with currently (I'd say a 7/10 on a hate/love scale), react to hearing that a Daeva from Manhattan raped a subject of his that he was fond of?

In this situation and with me as the GM, he would react with terminal prejudice. But I wouldn't have had this happen in a game I'm running anyway, at least not without you (the player) agreeing with the whole thing ahead of time.

[Sith_Happens]

Actually, I was considering using her general subservient personality and overall friendliness to gather allies that, at a word, will rush to her aid. There's less incentive to mess with an individual when they're the local Prince's favorite subject (A subject that has no aspiration of overthrowing said prince and can be cowed with just a stern tone) or, heaven forbid, they're the lone vampire ally of the local werewolf packs.

While direct scheming is indeed in like...98% of vampire's skillsets, this character tends to go for deterrents or just "tattling" to resolve these sort of conflicts. How would the Prince of Brooklyn, with who my character has a pretty decent relationship with currently (I'd say a 7/10 on a hate/love scale), react to hearing that a Daeva from Manhattan raped a subject of his that he was fond of?

I feel like you're mostly only going to get high-Humanity help this way, for better or worse.

I also feel like Lorsa's Obfuscate plan wouldn't be entirely out of place in the context of such a character, but then again I'm pretty sure that if I ever actually played Vampire myself, "blood-bond the offending party" would be my solution to every problem.:smallwink:

[Lorsa]

Actually, I was considering using her general subservient personality and overall friendliness to gather allies that, at a word, will rush to her aid. There's less incentive to mess with an individual when they're the local Prince's favorite subject (A subject that has no aspiration of overthrowing said prince and can be cowed with just a stern tone) or, heaven forbid, they're the lone vampire ally of the local werewolf packs.

While direct scheming is indeed in like...98% of vampire's skillsets, this character tends to go for deterrents or just "tattling" to resolve these sort of conflicts. How would the Prince of Brooklyn, with who my character has a pretty decent relationship with currently (I'd say a 7/10 on a hate/love scale), react to hearing that a Daeva from Manhattan raped a subject of his that he was fond of?

That depends what kind of prince he is. I don't think he'll be overly worried about a rape in general, his concern will be that his ally is spending time with a vampire who is strong enough to twist her emotions. Maybe the Daeva will do it in a way that turns her against him, the Prince? It's possible he could also simply be vengeful on her behalf. So anything from calling him in and forcing him to drink his blood to staking him for a certain time to outright killing him is possible.

[TheCountAlucard]

I also feel like Lorsa's Obfuscate plan wouldn't be entirely out of place in the context of such a character, but then again I'm pretty sure that if I ever actually played Vampire myself, "blood-bond the offending party" would be my solution to every problem.:smallwink:Getting fellow PCs one-or-two-step blood-bonded to yourself is a good, solid plan! Arch Whitman approves of it. :smallamused:

[BWR]

You aren't playing Vampire properly until two players ask you to blood bond their character.
In the same session.

[Silus]

So three things from the game yesterday:

1) I talked with the DM/ST about the whole rape thing and he understands my position on it and is more or less on board with any backstabbing plans I may come up with. As the session was mostly mission planning and combat, not much got done on the revenge front.

2) The Daeva turned out to be utterly useless during the mission. Seriously, not a dot in any combat save Brawl. Kept using out Giant Gangrel Brujah as a human shield (While said Brujah drove up the side of a warehouse on a motorcycle and tackle/maimed a sniper off the roof).

3) My little mousy bookworm? Yeah, apparently she can handle a .50-Cal sniper rifle juuuuuuuust fine. Granted she couldn't hit anything due to firing blind, but man, I got pretty close.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I have a gut feeling that things are going to turn around just fine. :smallwink:

[mephnick]

I'd be pretty angry about it, it's disgusting.

I guess to each their own, but it amazes me how many neckbeards use collaborative RPGs to act out their illegal sex fantasies on unwilling players.

[Jornophelanthas]

So three things from the game yesterday:

1) I talked with the DM/ST about the whole rape thing and he understands my position on it and is more or less on board with any backstabbing plans I may come up with. As the session was mostly mission planning and combat, not much got done on the revenge front.

2) The Daeva turned out to be utterly useless during the mission. Seriously, not a dot in any combat save Brawl. Kept using out Giant Gangrel Brujah as a human shield (While said Brujah drove up the side of a warehouse on a motorcycle and tackle/maimed a sniper off the roof).

3) My little mousy bookworm? Yeah, apparently she can handle a .50-Cal sniper rifle juuuuuuuust fine. Granted she couldn't hit anything due to firing blind, but man, I got pretty close.

If the chronicle is combat-heavy, you have a few extra options at your disposal to get your revenge.

1. If you somehow happen to save the Daeva's useless behind during combat (although it would have to be a situation that he acknowledges as such), you should play it up and claim he is now indebted to you. Repayment would be a drink of your blood. The best way to achieve this is to bait him into saying: "Wow, I would have been totally dead if it wasn't for you, you little bookwurm." In front of (NPC) witnesses with some social clout.

2. Surreptitiously cause situations in which he runs a larger risk of dying during combat. For example, lure him away from the Brujah, or lure the Brujah away from him. Or just plain refuse to help him, and help your other allies instead. Make sure you always have plausible deniability ("It seemed to me like the better plan at the time. But honestly, what difference could I have made anyway? I'm just a shopkeeper.").

Whatever you do, never give him any reason to suspect you have ulterior motives. Also, don't abandon your non-combat revenge plot; that's still Plan A. This is Plan B, which may or may not give a surprise opportunity at some point.

[Sith_Happens]

1. If you somehow happen to save the Daeva's useless behind during combat (although it would have to be a situation that he acknowledges as such), you should play it up and claim he is now indebted to you. Repayment would be a drink of your blood. The best way to achieve this is to bait him into saying: "Wow, I would have been totally dead if it wasn't for you, you little bookwurm." In front of (NPC) witnesses with some social clout.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling you don't just ask someone to drink your blood, at least without having a proverbial flamethrower to their head.

[Jornophelanthas]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling you don't just ask someone to drink your blood, at least without having a proverbial flamethrower to their head.

Although my experience with Vampire: the Requiem is rather limited compared to Vampire: the Masquerade, but I do believe nWoD has kept the concept of "life boons". Basically, save the guy's life (and have him admit it publicly) and you own him.