Ways to Become Smaller

[Morof Stonehands]

I am helping a co-player try to find ways to become smaller for our campaign. Right now he is Medium sized (Necropolitan Spellscale Dread Necromancer).

I know there is a nice list of ways to increase size, but is there a list of ways to decrease size? The only one I can really think of is Reduce Person, which won't work on him.

Edit: We're currently level 7.

[Doc_Maynot]

Polymorph any Object? You'd have a Duration Factor of 11.

[Immabozo]

Maug + incarnate construct + return to nature spell. How small do you want to go? Just keep casting return to nature and you will get there. LA I believe is 0, is might be 1

[Chronos]

There's the psionic power Compression, which is personal-only but works on any creature type, and (if you augment it enough) can get you down two sizes instead of just one.

Alter Self can change your size by up to one category, as long as there's some form that's suitable. Of course most of the higher-level polymorph spells would work too.

And I'm sure I remember reading somewhere of a Ring of Reduction, for use by monsters that would have a hard time fitting into a dungeon, that works like Reduce Person except without the type restriction. But I can't find it now (it's not in Dungeonscape).

[Rebel7284]

http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-arcane--55/minute-form--555/

May be difficult to get due to being a Wu Gen spell.

[Morof Stonehands]

There's the psionic power Compression, which is personal-only but works on any creature type, and (if you augment it enough) can get you down two sizes instead of just one.

Alter Self can change your size by up to one category, as long as there's some form that's suitable. Of course most of the higher-level polymorph spells would work too.

And I'm sure I remember reading somewhere of a Ring of Reduction, for use by monsters that would have a hard time fitting into a dungeon, that works like Reduce Person except without the type restriction. But I can't find it now (it's not in Dungeonscape).

That psionic one seems really good. We have never used psionics before though, so it brings another question: Can an item be made pre-augmented for a non-psionic character?

[Immabozo]

That psionic one seems really good. We have never used psionics before though, so it brings another question: Can an item be made pre-augmented for a non-psionic character?

You would need UPD (use psionic device) although if you play with magic-psioncs transparency, UMD will work (my group doesn't)

I do not believe you can augment a power to put into an item, but it might be possible. It will for sure be more expensive. Augmenting a power effectively makes it a higher level spell, if only in the number of power points it uses. So I would treat is as a higher level power for the purpose of making a custom psionic item, which I know of no rules for, but I imagine it would be the same as making a custom magic item

[Doc_Maynot]

You would need UPD (use psionic device) although if you play with magic-psioncs transparency, UMD will work (my group doesn't)




Psionics-Magic Transparency
Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.

When the rule about psionics-magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.

Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.


Transparency doesn't cover that.

[Immabozo]

Psionics-Magic Transparency
Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.

When the rule about psionics-magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.

Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.


Transparency doesn't cover that.

I stand corrected

[Inevitability]

http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-arcane--55/minute-form--555/

May be difficult to get due to being a Wu Gen spell.

Once the necromancer can cast 9th level spells, he can take extra spell to get this.

Bit of a long-term solution though.

[Metahuman1]

Just out of curiosity, why do you want to be smaller? Just to get the bonus to hit/dex/ac/reflex saves?

[Astral Avenger]

well, you *could* just cut off his legs. Small size and free :smallbiggrin:
seriously tho, I cant think of anything other than what has already been mentioned, but I haven't really looked into it before.

[Morof Stonehands]

You would need UPD (use psionic device) although if you play with magic-psioncs transparency, UMD will work (my group doesn't)

I do not believe you can augment a power to put into an item, but it might be possible. It will for sure be more expensive. Augmenting a power effectively makes it a higher level spell, if only in the number of power points it uses. So I would treat is as a higher level power for the purpose of making a custom psionic item, which I know of no rules for, but I imagine it would be the same as making a custom magic item

Hmm okay, might be worth taking that one up with the DM. Also, if the power cannot be pre-augmented, how about crafting the item to give the power points needed, is that possible?


Just out of curiosity, why do you want to be smaller? Just to get the bonus to hit/dex/ac/reflex saves?

Sadly yes, there is no other clever thing we're doing. He missed most of his shots with his ray attacks, and was wondering how to get that more reliable, out side of just boosting Dex. Feats are pretty much all set as of now, so spells that can be used and items are our best bet, plus shrinking is kinda neat.

[Immabozo]

Hmm okay, might be worth taking that one up with the DM. Also, if the power cannot be pre-augmented, how about crafting the item to give the power points needed, is that possible?

DM can always rule otherwise, however, in short, no.

There are items that can give power points ("Manifesting" and it can go on a shield for 3 pp and a weapon for 5 pp, and they cost a fixed amount, not a +x bonus) but these do not give the power to manifest spells unless the character already has the ability to do so.

The second thing working against you is that all powerpoints for feuling a single manifestation have to come from the same source. So an item of x power could not be augmented with powerpoints from another item, or if you have them naturally.


Sadly yes, there is no other clever thing we're doing. He missed most of his shots with his ray attacks, and was wondering how to get that more reliable, out side of just boosting Dex. Feats are pretty much all set as of now, so spells that can be used and items are our best bet, plus shrinking is kinda neat.

the skilled weapon enchantment treats you as if you had a 3/4 BAB. That will help.

[Bronk]

You could use the 'shrink collar' from 'Arms and Equipment Guide' p80... it makes the wearer size small, no matter what size they were before.

[Immabozo]

You could use the 'shrink collar' from 'Arms and Equipment Guide' p80... it makes the wearer size small, no matter what size they were before.

We are looking to get smaller that size small. This item would never stack with anything because it would keep setting your size at small.

A good answer, but in this case, not good enough

[Khatoblepas]

Shrink Collar + Alter Self can make you a Flameskull, which is a badass flaming skull with 18 Dex. I'm not sure if you get the 50ft fly speed, but you can just get a minion to carry you around.

Alternatively, find a giant and cast Return to Nature on it a bunch, kill it, and raise it as an undead. A skeleton will do. Then, cast Awaken Undead on it (very important), and then cast Magic Jar and become it.

[Immabozo]

Shrink Collar + Alter Self can make you a Flameskull, which is a badass flaming skull with 18 Dex. I'm not sure if you get the 50ft fly speed, but you can just get a minion to carry you around.

Alternatively, find a giant and cast Return to Nature on it a bunch, kill it, and raise it as an undead. A skeleton will do. Then, cast Awaken Undead on it (very important), and then cast Magic Jar and become it.

you definitely do not get the fly speed.

[Story]

And I'm sure I remember reading somewhere of a Ring of Reduction, for use by monsters that would have a hard time fitting into a dungeon, that works like Reduce Person except without the type restriction. But I can't find it now (it's not in Dungeonscape).

Lords of Madness, page 130. It costs 20k.

[ShurikVch]

Lords of Madness, page 130. It costs 20k.
Ring of Shrinking (Savage Species) cost 3600

[Story]

Ring of Shrinking (Savage Species) cost 3600

However, the Ring of Shrinking is only 9 minutes 1/day while Ring of Reduction is unlimited use and duration.

Also, Savage Species is 3.0 and notoriously broken.

[Morof Stonehands]

Shrink Collar + Alter Self can make you a Flameskull, which is a badass flaming skull with 18 Dex. I'm not sure if you get the 50ft fly speed, but you can just get a minion to carry you around.

Alternatively, find a giant and cast Return to Nature on it a bunch, kill it, and raise it as an undead. A skeleton will do. Then, cast Awaken Undead on it (very important), and then cast Magic Jar and become it.


Not sure if I am reading alter self wrong or not, but how would this be a good thing? I know that it is tiny, but could it cast the spells? It also would need to be carried around, since it flies with out wings, and the Dex score wouldn't matter, since the spell says you keep your own ability scores.


Ring of Shrinking (Savage Species) cost 3600
This is really good! Not as permanent as the Ring of Reduction as suggested earlier, but cheap, so we could get him a couple.


The skillful enhancement is also really handy, if he were going into melee, but it says it doesn't effect other attacks, only the weapon with it. So unless there is a way to get that on rays, then it's not the best thing.

[Khatoblepas]

Not sure if I am reading alter self wrong or not, but how would this be a good thing? I know that it is tiny, but could it cast the spells? It also would need to be carried around, since it flies with out wings, and the Dex score wouldn't matter, since the spell says you keep your own ability scores.

Oh, right, I got it mixed up with how Polymorph functions. Sorry!

(Though a Tomb Mote might work instead)

[Immabozo]

Not sure if I am reading alter self wrong or not, but how would this be a good thing? I know that it is tiny, but could it cast the spells? It also would need to be carried around, since it flies with out wings, and the Dex score wouldn't matter, since the spell says you keep your own ability scores.

I think the DM might rule you effectively have no dex because you are lying there unable to move on your own. I dont think this is a good option - even if it works.


The skillful enhancement is also really handy, if he were going into melee, but it says it doesn't effect other attacks, only the weapon with it. So unless there is a way to get that on rays, then it's not the best thing.

It's been a while since I read it, but that makes sense.

Maybe a wand chamber and then the wand inside the weapon will count for the BAB bonus? Might be stretching it there, but worth a try.