D&D 3.5 Increasing HP on an undead PC

[Mountain]

I'm about to start a new campaign in which I'll be running a necropolitan(LM) factotum(DS), but after a few hours of book-searching and internet-searching, I'm at a loss as to how to improve my HP.

I don't want to spend a feat on improved toughness.
I'm definitely not spending a feat on regular toughness.
Faerie mysteries initiate is unlikely to be approved.

Ideally, I want something that adds INT or CHA to hp/hd (I'm aware of Unholy Toughness, but I don't want LA+5).

[Doc_Maynot]

Yeah...
The only option you really have is 10 levels of Walker In the Waste.

[geekintheground]

get turned necropolitan in a desecrated area by a level 8 dread necromancer with the corpse crafter feat line... lots of free benefits.... there was a thread all about it: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?147848-(3-5)-The-Corpsecrafted-Spellstitched-Necropolitan

[Zanos]

The Faerie Mysteries Intiate feat from Dragon 359 will let you use Int to determine bonus HP, but is Dragon content(which may be banned) and widely considered too strong for a single feat.

[Hurnn]

Its not like you are suffering, d8 + 14 con is 6.5 hp per level on average, as is 1d12.

[Mountain]

Its not like you are suffering, d8 + 14 con is 6.5 hp per level on average, as is 1d12.

I'm not saying that it's unplayable, or even below average. I just want more Hp. As an undead, I'm completely destroyed at 0 Hp, so it's very important that I never get there.

Since additional Hp seems out of the question, I guess I'll have to look for temporary Hp or DR, or some other way to survive getting stabbed.

[NoACWarrior]

I'm not saying that it's unplayable, or even below average. I just want more Hp. As an undead, I'm completely destroyed at 0 Hp, so it's very important that I never get there.

Since additional Hp seems out of the question, I guess I'll have to look for temporary Hp or DR, or some other way to survive getting stabbed.

Is there any way for you to get "unholy toughness"?

Perhaps via polymorph or the like (not that polymorph is a good thing to do)?
You could also get fast healing of some type - it works on most things with hitpoints.
If you could get rebuke undead you could use the alternate divine rules to turn it into negative energy damage, add 1 feat in to deal damage to living creatures as well.

[Coidzor]

The only thing that comes to mind is a rather unlikely ritual from the Blood of Vol from the Eberron setting which is, IIRC, found in the Player's Guide to Eberron, which does permanent Con drain/damage in exchange for +Int or +Cha to HP(I can't recall which offhand) and can be taken multiple times. Note, that is not +Int or +Cha per HD to HP.

It is one use for having put a decent score into Constitution before becoming an undead, however. And while mildly cheesy, the limitations on it keep a lid on things pretty well.

As a note, you can get the equivalent of fast healing by acquiring some black sand, either legitimately or by using the spell black sand to coup de gras something in order to create permanent black sand, and then keeping it in your clothes, most popularly, one's boots.

[ShurikVch]

I can suggest one (very cheesy and rules-questionable) way: Symbiotic Creature template from Savage Species

Your "guest" will be Shadow Unseelie Fey Greenbound sentient adamantine gauntlet (Unseelie Fey template can be switched to Half-Troll, Wendigo or Half-Fey)
Now your body have properties of adamantine.
You get 40 hp per inch of your thickness and hardness 20.

[Coidzor]

I can suggest one (very cheesy and rules-questionable) way: Symbiotic Creature template from Savage Species

Your "guest" will be Shadow Unseelie Fey Greenbound sentient adamantine gauntlet (Unseelie Fey template can be switched to Half-Troll, Wendigo or Half-Fey)
Now your body have properties of adamantine.
You get 40 hp per inch of your thickness and hardness 20.

Where are you getting the Sentient Adamantine Gauntlet part from?

[OldTrees1]

Since Necropolitian is created with a ritual rather than an approved Necormancy spell, you only get +4hp/HD from seeking a proper ritual leader: Dread Necromancer 8 (Heroes of Horror) at a Desecrated altar(Player's Handbook).
Note: Undead created by approved necromancy spells get +8hp/HD by using a Wizard 1 (Enhance Undead from Dragon Magazine) / Dread Necromancer 8 with the Corpse Crafter feat (Libris Mortis) ay a Desecrated altar.

The Blood of Vol Ritual can only be taken once but it adds +Cha hp (Player's Guide to Ebberron). This is not per HD. Also it gives no benefit to creatures without a constitution (so no use for you).

The Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat (Dragon Magazine) is a good choice for +Int hp/HD

Unholy Toughness is not easily acquired. Either it requires 3rd party or it requires you not be a Necropolitian. More specifically, you would need to be a Dry Lich(SandStorm) instead.

So as a Necropolitian you would have:
(1d12 + 4 + Int) hp/HD

[ShurikVch]

Where are you getting the Sentient Adamantine Gauntlet part from?
Explanation:
Sentient magical weapons are not objects, but constructs. But otherwise keep all properties, such as adamatine's hardness and extra hp
But guest must be "animal, humanoid, plant, or vermin"
Add Shadow template from Manual of the Planes - now our gauntlet is not a construct, but Magical Beast
Next will be Unseelie Fey, or Half-Troll, or Wendigo or Half-Fey template: now gauntlet is fey (or giant, if you used half-troll)
Finally, apply the Greenbound template: gauntlet's type change to Plant (Augmented ...), thus make it legal for Symbiotic template

[Vaz]

Yeah...
The only option you really have is 10 levels of Walker In the Waste.

This. Unless you have some method of getting Ex abilities while polymorphed. The only way I can think of is by taking the form of something like a Salt Mummy, and that's through either Shapechange, or through Master Transmogrifist; the latter cannot be used however while you are already Undead; you can only take favoured shape's Ex abilities, and it cannot be your own type as a favoured shape, and you cannot take Undead forms without being Undead already. However Shroud of Undeath gives a none Undead the Undead type which you can piggyback Polymorph of.

[Mountain]

As a note, you can get the equivalent of fast healing by acquiring some black sand, either legitimately or by using the spell black sand to coup de gras something in order to create permanent black sand, and then keeping it in your clothes, most popularly, one's boots.

I'd like to hear more about this. The undead type specifically states that fast healing still works, regardless of the whole positive/negative energy thing.

[Kazyan]

It's a clunky solution, but get an Amulet of Tears. Swift action for some temporary HP. By the time you need more than the 12/18/24 it can give you, you'll be able to afford spares; Amulets of Tears are cheapo.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Black sand doesn't give you fast healing as such, instead it deals 1d6 (I think) negative energy damage per round as long as you are exposed to it, so since undeads heal from negative energy you effectively have Fast healing 1d6

[NoACWarrior]

You could get the fast healing items - i think its 300k for the epic +3 version?

But its way too expensive...
Alternatively you could go with some feats (and possibly manuevers) which grant fast healing.


Out of all the below, I'd recommend using Bleakness as your main healing spell, and going master specialist if you can manage wizard.
If you REALLY want, go the combat vigor / combat focus route, but be warned you actually need to hit in combat for it to activate. OoC you could just duel an undead minion with a sap to regen all your health.

Spells granting fast healing which can apply to non-living creatures or specifically undead:
Incarnum Vigor (MoI, requires feat to cast incarnum spells) - grants 1 FH but also can be upgraded as you get more essentia at a rate of +1 FH per essentia
Rejuvenative Corpse (SpC) - grants 1 FH for 5 mins after eating a fresh corpse enchanted with this spell
Bleakness (PHBII) - DoT AoE spell which grants 3 FH for the same AoE for the specified time.
Ravenous Darkness (CC) - DoT AoE spell which grants 1 FH for the same AoE for the specified time.

Fast healing feats:
Healing Devotion (CC) - only take this if you are desperate for some healing, it only lasts for 1 minute a day and only does up to 5 FH at 20th level
Dragonmark Rage (Dragonmarked, requires rage or frenzy and a true or aberrant dragon mark) - Dependent on the strength of your dragon mark you get fast healing while raging.
Devil's Stamina (FCII, requires fort +3, a pact with a devil, and another feat) - your HP is increased as well, and once per day for 5 rounds you get FH dependent on the number of devil-touched feats.
Combat Vigor (PHBII, requires BAB +9) - requires 2 feats, but as long as you are in combat focus you get 2 FH, improves to 4 FH if you get 3 feats.

PrCs giving fast healing:
Incandescent champion (MoI, requires good) - a simple dip isn't enough for this FH, since it is chained to the IC's class level.
Warshaper (CWar, need to change shape) - you'll have to go into this for 4 levels to get the FH, at least its unlimited.
Eldritch Theurge (CMag) - you'll need to dip 2 levels of this and the prereques are specific... you will be getting the same FH as a warlock at 8th level.
Master Specialist (CMag) - this isn't a hard PrC to enter, so long as you are a wizard. At level 10 you get 10 FH for 5 rounds, and so does every other undead ally in a burst. Now use them level 0 spells for great justice.

Base classes giving fast healing:
Warlock (CArc) - youll need to get to lvl 8 to get 1 FH for 2 mins, and it improves to 2/5 FH later.
Dragon Shaman (PHBII) - give fast healing to all allies in burst so long as you will it, but only affects those under 1/2 HP.

[Gavinfoxx]

Pc undead? Have the character made into a necropolitan by a Level 8 Dread Necromancer, with the feats Corpsecrafter, Bolster Resistance, Nimble Bones, and Hardened Flesh, while inside the radius of a Desecrate effect (he was wearing a Deadwalker's Ring), In the effect of an altar to an evil god. Make all of his hit points 6.5/level, except the first hit dice, which would be 12. This gives the pc:

Con --
+2 Natural Armor
+4 Initiative
+10' land speed
+4 Enhancement to Strength
+4 Enhancement to Dexterity
+6 Hit points per hit dice
+4 Turn Resistance
Undead type

[Cloud]

Black Sand in your boots works, yeah. It's technically 1d4 negative energy damage a round while in contact with it, but you know, undead. It's found in sandstorm and can made with a spell if you're stuck trying to find it. Personally I've always felt it was a bit cheesy, not in that I thought it was too powerful, but just I don't want the DM to use it (or Vipers in the pants with poison healer) and be forced to strip every NPC naked and/or execute them.

The Ritual of Crucimigration to become a necropolitan isn't a necromancy spell, so corpse crafter and that entire line doesn't work. The leader of the ritual being a 8th level Dread Necromancer should work though, as should desecrate, so that's still +4 HP per hit die.

Speaking of Dread Necromancer, if you're willing to lose a class level you could get infinite out of combat healing. Probably not worth it when you can just use wands of inflict light wounds and it wouldn't make you more resistant in combat, but it's an option.

[Vaz]

Black sand doesn't give you fast healing as such, instead it deals 1d6 (I think) negative energy damage per round as long as you are exposed to it, so since undeads heal from negative energy you effectively have Fast healing 1d6

There is nothing in RAW which states that Undead are healed by it; but that would be the exception, rather than the rule. However, compare that to the Inflict Spells, negative energy damage which explicitly state that they heal Undead.

[manyslayer]

There is nothing in RAW which states that Undead are healed by it; but that would be the exception, rather than the rule. However, compare that to the Inflict Spells, negative energy damage which explicitly state that they heal Undead.

Being healed by negative energy is mentioned under the undead traits in the SRD.

Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get turned into an undead creature in the area of a Fell Energy (http://dndtools.eu/feats/dragon-compendium--109/fell-energy-spell--3357/) Desecrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/desecrate.htm) with an evil altar present. The normal +1 HP per HD gets turned into +3 by Fell Energy, and that gets doubled by the presence of the evil altar to +6 HP per HD.

If you can convince your DM that of course the process of turning a creature into a necropolitan involves one or more necromancy spells, then you can say your creator was a Dread Necromancer 8+ with the Corpsecrafter line of feats in LM. This gives you an additional +4 HP per HD, a permanent +4 Enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity, +4 Turn Resistance, +1d6 Cold damage with natural weapons, +2 Natural Armor, +4 Initiative, and +10 ft. base land speed.

[NoACWarrior]

Black sand doesn't give you fast healing as such, instead it deals 1d6 (I think) negative energy damage per round as long as you are exposed to it, so since undeads heal from negative energy you effectively have Fast healing 1d6

Ah well - its a great spell - but be sure to not call it fast healing - because we want to stack as many of these as possible to give the OP a viable solution.

[OldTrees1]

Get turned into an undead creature in the area of a Fell Energy (http://dndtools.eu/feats/dragon-compendium--109/fell-energy-spell--3357/) Desecrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/desecrate.htm) with an evil altar present. The normal +1 HP per HD gets turned into +3 by Fell Energy, and that gets doubled by the presence of the evil altar to +6 HP per HD.

I forgot Fell Energy.
That would put it at (1d12+8+Int) hp/HD <-Honestly, at this point you have more hp than the party meatshield. There would be no reason to push it higher.

or (1d12+12+Int) hp/HD if the DM is flexible

[Jowgen]

Take a level in Monk to turn your whole body into a single "Unarmed Strike" weapon (which counts as both natural and manufactured for weapon enhancing effects), buy yourself an Necklace of Natural Weapons (savage species) to make it a +1, and attach a Crystal of Adamant Weaponry (MIC) to give yourself Hardness.

Trying to get +2 Hardness and + 10 HP per +1 on your Necklace might be worthwhile, assuming your DM has bad aim.

[OldTrees1]

Take a level in Monk to turn your whole body into a single "Unarmed Strike" weapon (which counts as both natural and manufactured for weapon enhancing effects), buy yourself an Necklace of Natural Weapons (savage species) to make it a +1, and attach a Crystal of Adamant Weaponry (MIC) to give yourself Hardness.

Trying to get +2 Hardness and + 10 HP per +1 on your Necklace might be worthwhile, assuming your DM has bad aim.

However a quick witted DM would say "While your unarmed strike has hardness, you are not your unarmed strike and thus do not."

[Jowgen]

you are not your unarmed strike

Well that's an insult to valiant adventuring Monks all over, if I've ever heard one. :P

[OldTrees1]

Well that's an insult to valiant adventuring Monks all over, if I've ever heard one. :P

Why would the wise Monks take offense at the accurate observation? It is not like a Zombie is its Slam.

[Jowgen]

Why would the wise Monks take offense at the accurate observation? It is not like a Zombie is its Slam.

I'd like to think that Monks have this constant inferiority complex towards weapon users, hence the whole "I have trained my body into a lethal weapon so I can kill you with my toe! Who needs the reach of a spike chain anyway... they're totally not cool... I am totally a decent damage dealer... my mommy says so" cliche. :P

Seriously though, while I do agree that a DM is free disallow certain silly "Living Weapon" trickeries (brilliant energy comes to mind), stating that a Monk's entire body isn't a weapon seems like a bit of a blow to flavour of the class; and there is WotC material to support the rule-wise view that the monk's body is a weapon in itself (e.g. https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20050310a )

[OldTrees1]

I'd like to think that Monks have this constant inferiority complex towards weapon users, hence the whole "I have trained my body into a lethal weapon so I can kill you with my toe! Who needs the reach of a spike chain anyway... they're totally not cool... I am totally a decent damage dealer... my mommy says so" cliche. :P

Seriously though, while I do agree that a DM is free disallow certain silly "Living Weapon" trickeries (brilliant energy comes to mind), stating that a Monk's entire body isn't a weapon seems like a bit of a blow to flavour of the class; and there is WotC material to support the rule-wise view that the monk's body is a weapon in itself (e.g. https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20050310a )

:) Funny imagery

I think there is a difference between:
Any part of your body can be used for an unarmed strike vs You are an unarmed strike.

Imagine a monk with a +1 Flaming Amulet of Natural Attacks. Would they be entirely wreathed in flames 24/7 or would their attacks (with any body part) be wreathed in flames?

Question:

"A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet."
Where would I need to look to find RAW allowing an unarmed strike with a head?

[Rijan_Sai]

Speaking of Fast Healing...

Now, this trick only comes online at higher levels (18+ for a Factotum...) but it could still work:

1) Planar Bind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarBinding.htm) a Ravid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ravid.htm) (or other PEP creature (http://monsterfinder.dndrunde.de/results.php?id=1965143298&skip=0))*;

2) Cast Planar Bubble (http://dndtools.eu/spells/planar-handbook--79/planar-bubble--2140/)** on creature;

3) Enjoy the benefits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveDominant) of the Positive Energy Plane (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveEnergyPlane), with none of the drawbacks! (Since the fort saves to avoid blindness/exploding don't affect objects, an undead is immune.)

(This is slightly more viable for a Wizard, who can prepare more then one Planar Bubble at a time, but you get at least 180 minutes out of it!)
*Could use Lesser Planar Binding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarBindingLesser.htm): Ravid is only 3 HD, and you're not calling it for it's battle prowess, although an army of (uncontrolled) Animated Objects could be interesting! ...now that I've read it, the Glimmerskin (MM2) could be very nice! You keep the Fast Healing for an additional (1/2 CON, base 7) hours after the Planar Bubble ends! Just make an agreement as part of the binding that you will release it before it's time is up, and you can have a fairly constant adventuring companion!
**There is a version of Planar Bubble in the Spell Compendium, but it is the same as the one linked...

[Know(Nothing)]

Convince your DM to let you do what we did with our Necropolitan, which is CHA for bonus HP, and HD by class.

[Jowgen]

Imagine a monk with a +1 Flaming Amulet of Natural Attacks. Would they be entirely wreathed in flames 24/7 or would their attacks (with any body part) be wreathed in flames?

Well, flaming, per description, sheaths a weapon in flames upon command, so he'd literally be on fire as soon as battle started, which is a rather flavourful image. Although I imagine there will obviously be some weapon effects with hard-to-visualize effects.


Where would I need to look to find RAW allowing an unarmed strike with a head?

Players handbook II lists fists, elbows, shins, feet, and knees; but the main support for the "death via toenail" is the Monk's With Class article I linked earlier, which states "A monk's hands and feet (and the rest of her body, when necessary) are effective weapons when she begins play" (emphasis mine). Flavour-wise explanations for this might range from crushing a guys skull with your abs, to a punch requiring core- and leg-muscles to deliver appropriate force, making them part of the weapon like a hilt or cross-guard.

Either way, I believe we are de-railing this thread with Monks. :P