How to be a Bow user?

[Kamaei]

((Going to say sorry ahead of time for all the questions I will be asking because I have no knowledge when it comes to ranged combat or classes.))

I am going to be entering a campaign as a level 9 but we are required to be a race that has a level adjustment +1, so my class level will be 8, class undecided. My idea for what i want to do is to focus in ranged attacks and eventually purchasing a Force Bow as my main weapon. The race I was leaning towards was Empty Vessel simply because it is the only race that appeared remotely human, besides Aasimar, with a level adjustment. Should I be ranger since they are the natural bow class or should I go towards psionic because of the empty vessel race, or just not be that race and instead be catfolk or goliath?

I've already looked at the Archery (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0) Handbook and doesn't say anything about classes or races...

[JeminiZero]

For LA+1, Feytouched (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) can also look human (or at least Elven).

As far as class goes, the easiest ranged attack class out of the box is probably the Warlock, so you might want to consider that as well.

What is the rest of the party playing? That might give us some insight as to whether there are any particular shortfalls, as well as what tier you should be aiming for.

[NoACWarrior]

For the +1 LA, is it good enough to choose a +0 and apply a +1 template?

I'd also agree with Jemini, Warlock is very easy to use ootb.
Also at higher levels (as long as you max out UMD) you can use wands with relative ease and supplement your flexibility and survivability.

[Kamaei]

For LA+1, Feytouched (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) can also look human (or at least Elven).

As far as class goes, the easiest ranged attack class out of the box is probably the Warlock, so you might want to consider that as well.

What is the rest of the party playing? That might give us some insight as to whether there are any particular shortfalls, as well as what tier you should be aiming for.

The group consist of 2 Monks, 1 Fighter, 1 Sorcerer, 1 Rogue from what I understand, this campaign has been going on for about a month now and I am just joining it late. One of the monks and the rogue have taken other classes as well since DM already house ruled to ignore multi-class penalties.


For the +1 LA, is it good enough to choose a +0 and apply a +1 template?

I forgot to ask him earlier and probably won't be able to get a response until he wakes up, since its 1am. Would possibly allow though if I it brought up.

[hymer]

My personal favourite with an actual bow is the swift hunter. It's a ranger/scout multiclass, using the feat Swift Hunter to combine class abilities from the two and potentially bypassing most immunities to its skirmish damage bonus. The feat is in Complete Scoundrel.

[NoACWarrior]

Ah ok. With that lineup you may have an issue with healing.

If you want to, you could play favored soul and take the reserve feat touch of healing to heal people, and use the rest of your spells as ranged nuke spells (not a great answer to playing a ranged martial character but a divine caster would fit very well in your current group). Now, the above said, at 6th level pick up the spell called darkfire - its a pretty good ranged spell that does consistent damage, lets you attack in iterative, and switches between ranged and melee with no problems. You could go AoE as well.

But back to martial / something matching what you might want.

A straight Ranger does get some divine spells, and you can buy a cure light wounds wand to supplement the lack of a divine caster. If you want to stay as an archer though you'd want a few lvl 1 spells to cast, making sure to carry pearls of power to get them back after each encounter. At level 1 - Arrow Mind, Guided Shot, Hawkeye, and Hunter's Mercy are good archer based spells to have (but not really that helpful out of damaging in combat, which having spells is really for). Arrow mind makes you be able to threaten squares around you and you never threaten an AoO while shooting a bow. Guided shot negates some cover / concealment issues. Hawkeye increases your range and gives you a few other bonuses as well. Hunters mercy makes your first hit with a bow in the next round a critical hit (with a pretty major action economy cost tho). At level 2 you get a few nifty spells as well - Balancing Lorecall and Listening Lorecall are pretty good utility spells. As an Ranger you may not get cool spell abilities which make force arrows, but with spell augments you get some pretty cool abilities.

And to the original suggestion:

The warlock is super low maintenance, it is playable almost right out of the box, and has a few neat features such as never running out of their SLAs. At higher levels with the right feats you have increased depth of play, and with a bit of multiclassing you could go hellfire warlock, one of the best warlock prestige classes out there (the multclassing is so that you can shrug off the downsides of being a hellfire warlock). If you want to always stay a warlock (not recommended as your staying power will gradually decrease), I'd suggest going the wand route - it will require a bit more depth of play but will get you much better flexibility until around lvl 12 or so when you start to be weaker again in the flexibility department. try to pick up craft wand at 6th level and go double wand wielder at 9th, then taking wand mastery at 12th. Wands are straight forward to use, activate as if you were casting a spell (provoking AoO) via spell trigger or using UMD (The warlock has an ability decieve the wand and take 10 on the UMD check). With dual wand wielding you could potentially do double the damage, or have a mixed double effect. For a wand nuker warlock, you'd buy your wands and collect them as if they were your spells, but be warned, wands can be very expensive, especially when you are going for the damage wands which require higher CL.

[hymer]

Wands are straight forward to use, activate as if you were casting a spell (provoking AoO)

Nitpicks: You don't (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wands.htm) provoke AoO when activating a wand. And the Hellfire Warlock method to avoid the con damage should be taken up with your DM before you head down that route, as it is rather iffy.

[TiaC]

One option that no one has brought up yet is psionics. The dissolving weapon power lasts until the weapon is used. This allows you to spend downtime piling it on arrows. Empowered dissolving weapon is 5PP for 6d6 damage.

[NoACWarrior]

Nitpicks: You don't (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wands.htm) provoke AoO when activating a wand. And the Hellfire Warlock method to avoid the con damage should be taken up with your DM before you head down that route, as it is rather iffy.

ah thanks for that clarification on the wand. If you are talking about strongheart method, I think its a totally cheesy way. Naberius, not as much cheese, but still pretty exploitative.

[hymer]

I didn't even know there was a Strongheart method, I was thinking of binding.

[Kamaei]

Ah ok. With that lineup you may have an issue with healing.

If you want to, you could play favored soul and take the reserve feat touch of healing to heal people, and use the rest of your spells as ranged nuke spells (not a great answer to playing a ranged martial character but a divine caster would fit very well in your current group). Now, the above said, at 6th level pick up the spell called darkfire - its a pretty good ranged spell that does consistent damage, lets you attack in iterative, and switches between ranged and melee with no problems. You could go AoE as well.
I have unfortunately been the support or crowd control role in almost all campaigns I participate in and as far as I know, I believe the party tends to get a redundant amount of potions since they lack heals


For a wand nuker warlock, you'd buy your wands and collect them as if they were your spells, but be warned, wands can be very expensive, especially when you are going for the damage wands which require higher CL.
When I see this statement I now feel like I want to stay somewhat clear of it because in the campaigns I partake in, I notice that my DM's tend to not give out much gold reward and instead reward the player with an item valuable to the user so he won't sell it.

[draconomial]

Build an Archeficer (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11474). Take Extraordinary Artisan instead of Leadership. Any magical items you like? Multiply their base cost by .375.

You don't even need to be shooting things yourself, build some arbalesters. They're like Tiny turrets that can balance on your shoulder and fire arrows or bolts that you poisoned last week.

Craft a scroll of Revenance, and a scroll of Revivify, and you'll always be able to quickly bring your allies back to from the dead without them losing any levels. It's not even religious, your evil party members have no need to fear! Healing via items better than clerics? (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710.0)

Yeah, masterwork bows with +4 enchantments, shooting masterwork poisoned arrows, or poisoned shrieking arrows.

Everyone is going to be giving you their gold to craft things, and WotC has ruled that you can craft items using a willing individual's exp instead of your own. The limit is your imagination, since you have all the wizard's spells and most of the items out of MIC. Go nuts.


my DM's tend to not give out much gold reward and instead reward the player with an item valuable to the user so he won't sell it.
An artificer that spends a day with a magical item can destroy it and use a portion of its value to the exp and gold cost of the next few items he wants to make.

[JeminiZero]

Your team obviously lacks any divine caster, so I am going to suggest a Zen Archer Cleric (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.sg/2011/08/quickstart-cleric-archer.html). Since you might want to focus more on healing, look up the Divine Restoration ACF in Dungeonscape.

[Kamaei]

Build an Archeficer (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11474). Take Extraordinary Artisan instead of Leadership. Any magical items you like? Multiply their base cost by .375.
This class is banned because there have been enough players who have done stuff similar to that and lowered the cost of creating an item to 0gp


Your team obviously lacks any divine caster, so I am going to suggest a Zen Archer Cleric (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.sg/2011/08/quickstart-cleric-archer.html). Since you might want to focus more on healing, look up the Divine Restoration ACF in Dungeonscape.
I've always wondered how a cleric archer would work with Zen Archery but don't most ranged feats require dex as well? So you would need need wis, con, str and dex?

[Vizzerdrix]

For race, I'd like to toss evolved undead necropolitan into the ring.

Class wise, Mystic Ranger is good at ranged combat, skills, and healing.

[draconomial]

This class is banned because there have been enough players who have done stuff similar to that and lowered the cost of creating an item to 0gp
That only happens when people ignore the errata that Extraordinary Artisan can not be taken multiple times.

[Gavinfoxx]

I've always wondered how a cleric archer would work with Zen Archery but don't most ranged feats require dex as well? So you would need need wis, con, str and dex?

No, not really. You mostly need Wis and Con and Str and that's about it. Follow that build exactly. With a 32 point buy, that character is, at level 1: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 12.

[Rebel7284]

One of the better bow user at this level is probably factotum 8 due to extra standard actions and Int to attack/damage and overall flexibility.

[toapat]

I've always wondered how a cleric archer would work with Zen Archery but don't most ranged feats require dex as well? So you would need need wis, con, str and dex?

Try this (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3407376), see whether either Serenity or Academic/Dynamic priest are available. you get to have fun as a cleric archer, Not hate your healing, and Generally be the key to the rest of the party's flaws. It needs a bit of work because its designed for melee and a combo of stats. If you can get either of the three feats i listed you have any race option. From Smite to Song doesnt need melee to activate.

As far as i understand, Zen Archery is a trap if you arent going Soulbow

[Gavinfoxx]

As far as i understand, Zen Archery is a trap if you arent going Soulbow

Couldn't disagree more... you mean 'soulknife', rather than 'zen archery', right?

[toapat]

Couldn't disagree more... you mean 'soulknife', rather than 'zen archery', right?

no, Soulbow Aka "Im the reason Soulknife exists" Sure a cleric is going to have a rock solid Wis score but This is cleric. You can invest enough through other sources that you dont need to invest a feat on accuracy conversion

[Kamaei]

That only happens when people ignore the errata that Extraordinary Artisan can not be taken multiple times.
Funny enough, they did not take the feat multiple times. Also, after consulting with my DM, I do not have to have any sort of LA +1 anymore.

[animewatcha]

Let's try this. What sources are available? only WOTC? Dragon Mag? Point-buy? Rolling of stats?

[Kamaei]

Let's try this. What sources are available? only WOTC? Dragon Mag? Point-buy? Rolling of stats?

Rolling for stats(18, 17, 17, 14, 14, 13), as far as I know WOTC books, no mags or 3rd party

[animewatcha]

1. As a bow user, do you want to be more of a physical-type ( like a normal ranger ) or more spell-casting type ( arrowsplit ) more often?

2. Also, how does your DM feel about aurorum arrows?

3. Also, is that LA 1 free or do you have to count it against class levels ( I'm in a no LA-buyoff group myself )? If forced, can you buy it off?

4. Flaws? If yes, how many?

[Kamaei]

1. As a bow user, do you want to be more of a physical-type ( normal ranger ) or more spell-casting type ( arrowsplit ) more often?

2. Also, how does your DM feel about aurorum arrows?

3. Also, is that LA 1 free or do you have to count it against class levels ( I'm in a no LA-buyoff group myself )? If forced, can you buy it off?

4. Flaws? If yes, how many?

1. Both? I mean, I want to hopefully get a force bow and enchant it with splitting

2. Probably doesn't care as long as I can pay the price.

3.Count it against, but as mentioned before, I no longer am required to have an LA +1

4. No flaws allowed sadly.

[animewatcha]

1. The two can be different. Compare feat-fighter 20 archer versus something like 20 mystic ranger or 20 cleric. Gotta choose.

2. It is not so much the price. The RAW on aurorum is that the aurorum x object has to be 'sundered completely'. The intention is if you can shoot say magic adamantine arrows ( cost adds up fast ), they get destroyed on hit/miss, and you do aurorum thing to recycle them to save on cost.

3. Okay counts it against. Can you do LA-buyoff? If you do, people can suggest some LA races or templates that can help you out.

Level 9. Might I suggest Mask of flight from magic of eberron ( ? ). 13k item that is fly at will with a caster level of 5 ( so fly speed 60 for 5 minutes a shot. The monks go faster ). Unlimited usage and can use on others. The party will be your best friend.