Spring Attack + Free movement = Full attack?

[Xintas]

The way I am reading it, spring attack requires:


Movement before and after the attack
The ability to make a legal attack
Movement equaling no more than your speed



If you can generate the required movement in another way (Travel Devotion, Hustle or Belt of Battle for an extra move action, or possibly something like anklets of translocation plus a 5 foot step [this doesn't seem legal, though]), you should be able to make a full attack as the "Attack Action", right?

[Andezzar]

No, the Attack Action (a Standard Action) is different from the Full Attack Action (a Full Round Action). Spring Attack only allows you to move before and after the former.

[Xintas]

No, the Attack Action (a Standard Action) is different from the Full Attack Action (a Full Round Action). Spring Attack only allows you to move before and after the former.

This is where I am having trouble. "Attack" is not strictly an action and a full attack is specifically described as a "Full attack action" and when described says that you make an attack action and then can choose to move or continue making attacks after the first. The last attack in a full attack is no less an "Attack Action" than the first one in how it is written.

Is this just an example of poor writing and an "accept it and move on" kind of thing or has WotC officially clarified this at some point?

[Andezzar]

An attack is not necessarily an action (AoOs for example), but the Attack (action) is always the single attack you get with the appropriate standard action:

Attack

Making an attack is a standard action.

Attack (action) =/= Full Attack (action). Subsequent attacks during a Full Attack are attacks but they are not attack actions in and of themselves. They are, like the first attack, part of the Full Attack (action). Only the First attack can either be the Attack action or part of the Full Attack:

Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack

After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.

[Xintas]

So in this scenario, you can move up with Travel Devotion, make a single attack, and then either continue the move or continue the attack (since a full attack starts with an Attack Action), but not both?

Also, I know that Attack says that in the SRD, but there are a number of exceptions. Also, it is never listed as Attack Action, nor is that an action type. I have no issue being wrong about this, but it seems more like a case of "Well, you knew what we meant" than a case where the rules action support the ruling.

[hemming]

This is where I am having trouble. "Attack" is not strictly an action and a full attack is specifically described as a "Full attack action" and when described says that you make an attack action and then can choose to move or continue making attacks after the first. The last attack in a full attack is no less an "Attack Action" than the first one in how it is written.

The feat reads: "When using the attack action..." - I know this is grasping at straws for intention a bit, but that seems to indicate more specificity than "an attack action"

- the way I read it, it would only allow for a full attack action if also stated

Action types are not capitalized in most of the text describing actions

[Lord Vukodlak]

Lets look at the feat Combat Expertise for comparison



Combat Expertise [General]
Prerequisite

Int 13.
Benefit

When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee,

I think that clears up the meaning of "the attack action" in spring attack quite well.

[Andezzar]

Also, it is never listed as Attack Action, nor is that an action type.Nor is a Full Attack (action) an action type. A Full Attack is of the action type Full Round Action. The Attack (action) is of the type Standard Action.

[Person_Man]

Sorry Xintas, but you are incorrect on the RAW, as several posters have already pointed out. Because of the peculiar and specific wording of the Feat and what an attack action is in 3.5, Spring Attack limits you to a single attack action. It's also a terrible Feat because it requires two other terrible feats, Dodge and Mobility.

However, if you want to move, make a full attack, and then continue moving, you do have options:

1) Get Pounce and take the Ride-By-Attack Feat.

2) Get Pounce and any form of Swift or Immediate Action Movement.

3) Take enough levels of Crinti Shadow Marauder or Teflammar Shadowlord, which grants you the ability to make a full attack when you teleport. There are a variety of ways to make teleportation a Move, Swift, or Immediate action, which gives you the option to move and make a full attack multiple times per round.

4) Have an ally (or NPC you hire) ready their action to cast a spell or use an ability that grants you movement, such as Dimension Hop, White Raven Tactics, Vanus vestige, etc.

5) Just get extra actions via Celerity, Time Stop, Eternal Blade, etc.

Also, useful reference thread is useful (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?103358-3-X-Ways-to-get-Pounce-or-Free-Movement).

[Xintas]

Nor is a Full Attack (action) an action type. A Full Attack is of the action type Full Round Action. The Attack (action) is of the type Standard Action.

I am aware that it is not an action type, but it actually is written as "full attack action":

"Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action

You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full attack action. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round. "

whereas "attack action" is never in the SRD aside from the instances where the word "full" is in front of it.

I understand now what the intent of the feat was, but as I originally asked, I was wondering if the peculiar wording was actually intended to prevent a full attack or if it was just peculiar because no method existed at the time that would make a Full attack and Move action possible in the same turn.



Prerequisite

Int 13.
Benefit

When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee,
I think that clears up the meaning of "the attack action" in spring attack quite well.

This response by Lord Vukodlak actually makes the most sense as far as a RAW argument.