Ability score bonus with increaing HD?

[hisnamehere]

I'm probably thinking too much here, but do creatures get ability score bonuses for every 4 HD (like with 1/3 for feats)? or is that a class levels-only thing?

Cheers!

[Arael666]

No, the do not. You can also check Ur Priest's guide to monsters if you have any other questions.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook

[hisnamehere]

Thanks, Arael.

[Cloud]

Just to clarify, any racial HD a monster starts with is basically already accounted for in the attributes. If you're advancing a creature, you'll increase ability scores as normal. That is covered in the handbook that was linked too, but worth pointing out. The reference for that is page 290 of the MM.

[Urpriest]

Just to clarify, any racial HD a monster starts with is basically already accounted for in the attributes. If you're advancing a creature, you'll increase ability scores as normal. That is covered in the handbook that was linked too, but worth pointing out. The reference for that is page 290 of the MM.

Yup! Basically, you do "get" all the boosts, but some of them happened during your starting HD and are included in your base ability scores.

[hisnamehere]

Ah. Sweet. That makes my build work better.
Thanks!

[Khedrac]

One thing to remember is that for Animal Companions from the class feature the answer is no they don't get stat increases from their bonus hit dice - that is covered by their bonuses to Str and Dex.

[HammeredWharf]

One thing to remember is that for Animal Companions from the class feature the answer is no they don't get stat increases from their bonus hit dice - that is covered by their bonuses to Str and Dex.

Sure they do.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#bonusHD

They get bonus hit dice and the things that come with them, unless explicitly stated otherwise. What Animal Companions don't get are size increases, because they're a feature of monster advancement, not hit dice.

[Khedrac]

Sure they do.
Interesting, I am sure I read that somewhere, but I now cannot remember where. However, it is not as simple as you make it out to be. They very explicitly do not get everything that comes with increasing hit dice - for example they do not get the size adjustments from the monster advancement entry of their type.
Also it explicitly states that they get bonus feats and skill points from the hit dice - which leaves bonus stat points in a very grey undefined area. Given that the bonus stat points from being a companion are only in Str and Dex then I like the idea of being able to put them into Con, but I think it becomes "DM's call".

It is also highly possible that I read this in an older version of the FAQ (which I know is not RAW) and it is no longer in there so...

[HammeredWharf]

They very explicitly do not get everything that comes with increasing hit dice - for example they do not get the size adjustments from the monster advancement entry of their type.

See, that's not true. Some of the things you get with bonus hit dice are mentioned explicitly, but it's never said you don't get the rest. Size increases aren't gained because they're not an inherent part of increasing hit dice, but of monster advancement. Animal Companions aren't advanced. They just get some hit dice.

[Coidzor]

Interesting, I am sure I read that somewhere, but I now cannot remember where. However, it is not as simple as you make it out to be. They very explicitly do not get everything that comes with increasing hit dice - for example they do not get the size adjustments from the monster advancement entry of their type.
Also it explicitly states that they get bonus feats and skill points from the hit dice - which leaves bonus stat points in a very grey undefined area. Given that the bonus stat points from being a companion are only in Str and Dex then I like the idea of being able to put them into Con, but I think it becomes "DM's call".

It is also highly possible that I read this in an older version of the FAQ (which I know is not RAW) and it is no longer in there so...

Getting bigger is a part of advancing them, but, since animal companions have to be a base example of the base creature, they cannot get bigger, and they are gaining bonus HD, which are normal HD for all intents and purposes except for what is explicitly called out, but are a different path of advancement, much like how class levels are a different form of advancement from gaining bonus HD as a mount/animal companion or advancing monsters by RHD.

The closest example of something which would involve advancing a monster by RHD that players would interact with would be psicrystals, largely because they gain a construct HD each time their master gains a level, and even then it's not a pure example.

An n Ettercap could, say, have bonus HD from a source such as Inspire Greatness, have taken a level or two of Barbarian, be an advanced Ettercap with 8 HD and Large size(in which case it generally was never a 5 HD example of the race), or a combination of all three and have experienced 3 different paths of progression.

Or a Paladin could have a Cohort who was also their Special Mount who would benefit from both Paladin Special Mount Bonus HD and have their own HD from class levels.


One thing to remember is that for Animal Companions from the class feature the answer is no they don't get stat increases from their bonus hit dice - that is covered by their bonuses to Str and Dex.

No the bonuses to Str/Dex are their own bonuses.

They don't come with a +1 to either every +4 bonus HD, instead they get a +1 to both(so a +2 to their ability scores in total) every 2 HD, so they gain an ability score boost with every bonus HD they gain, which is obviously not the same progression as gaining 1 to an ability score every 4 HD, and is explicitly called out as its own bonus that animal companions get and is not clarified to be a simplification of the default rules for boosting ability scores as a result of increasing HD.

[lunar2]

no, i'm going to have to agree that animal companions and special mounts do not get the normal increase to ability scores. the animal companion and special mount sidebars spell out explicitly what the creature gets. it only gets what we are told it gets, because it is not a true HD increase, but "bonus" HD. specifically, even if you were to get a dragon type special mount (which is not hard to do), it still gets


Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a
Constitution modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the mount’s
base attack and base save bonuses. A special mount’s base attack bonus
is equal to that of a cleric of a level equal to the mount’s HD. A mount
has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level
equals the animal’s HD). The mount gains additional skill points or feats
for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice (see the
Monster Manual).

so the only thing a dragon would get for being a dragon type is the 6+ int skill points per level. everything else is just like an animal. also, the animal companion text is almost identical, so a dire animal companion still only gets good fortitude and reflex saves for its bonus HD.

it sucks, but that's RAW for you. if it spells out exactly what you do get, you can't just assume that you also get something else. errata also never touches on animal companions or special mounts, so there's no luck there.

[Coidzor]

no, i'm going to have to agree that animal companions and special mounts do not get the normal increase to ability scores. the animal companion and special mount sidebars spell out explicitly what the creature gets. it only gets what we are told it gets, because it is not a true HD increase, but "bonus" HD. specifically, even if you were to get a dragon type special mount (which is not hard to do), it still gets



so the only thing a dragon would get for being a dragon type is the 6+ int skill points per level. everything else is just like an animal. also, the animal companion text is almost identical, so a dire animal companion still only gets good fortitude and reflex saves for its bonus HD.

it sucks, but that's RAW for you. if it spells out exactly what you do get, you can't just assume that you also get something else. errata also never touches on animal companions or special mounts, so there's no luck there.

Prescriptivism vs. descriptivism on that one, mostly.

[Urpriest]

no, i'm going to have to agree that animal companions and special mounts do not get the normal increase to ability scores. the animal companion and special mount sidebars spell out explicitly what the creature gets. it only gets what we are told it gets, because it is not a true HD increase, but "bonus" HD. specifically, even if you were to get a dragon type special mount (which is not hard to do), it still gets



so the only thing a dragon would get for being a dragon type is the 6+ int skill points per level. everything else is just like an animal. also, the animal companion text is almost identical, so a dire animal companion still only gets good fortitude and reflex saves for its bonus HD.

it sucks, but that's RAW for you. if it spells out exactly what you do get, you can't just assume that you also get something else. errata also never touches on animal companions or special mounts, so there's no luck there.

Bonus HD are HD, so they gain the benefits of HD. They don't necessarily gain the benefits of RHD because they're not RHD, they're bonus HD. But they're still HD, and just like the HD from Inspire Greatness, they come with ability score boosts.

[lunar2]

Bonus HD are HD, so they gain the benefits of HD. They don't necessarily gain the benefits of RHD because they're not RHD, they're bonus HD. But they're still HD, and just like the HD from Inspire Greatness, they come with ability score boosts.

nothing in the inspire greatness description says you get feats, skill ranks, or ability score boosts. inspire greatness is another thing that spells out exactly what you get. you get what the ability says you get, nothing more. if you got that other stuff, it would say that you got it. the inspire greatness HD don't even give you BAB or base save increases, instead giving you a competence bonus on attack rolls and fortitude saves. they are not normal HD, and they do not follow the rules for normal HD.