Silver Flame = Hardcore Mode?

[NecessaryWeevil]

So a few sessions ago, my Eberron character died to a Prismatic Spray trap. Not a big deal...until I recalled that the Silver Flame doesn't believe in resurrection except in the most exceptional of circumstances. The DM very kindly decided to reroll, and he was driven insane instead.

Essentially, if you worship the Silver Flame and take the fluff at all seriously, you're playing in Hardcore mode where you only have one life. The DMG casually remarks that, in higher CR encounters, the occasional PC death is not unexpected, and by then they party will have resources to deal with it.

Not if your religion doesn't believe in resurrection...

So, just because I'm curious, what has happened when Silver Flame characters die in your campaigns? Is that the end of the character, or is their resurrection justified somehow?

[Spore]

I would hold the thought and only break it if you REALLY have important business. If not then becoming one with the Flame (instead of being banished to Dolurrh and fade away) is the final destination for every follower. Secondly you'd have a logicistical problem to find a priest and convince him to ressurect someone following the Silver Flame.

[Slipperychicken]

This is one reason why I think it's useful to write a will (or at least the basic outline of one) for each character you make, and include what happens when that character dies, especially regarding resurrection.

[Andezzar]

Whether a character is resurrected mostly depends on the will of the character to be resurrected. Any cleric, even one of the Silver Flame, can prepare the raise dead/resurrection/true resurrection spell. Except through direct interaction through an avatar or other agent, the deity has no method of hindering the casting of that spell. If the target of the spell does not refuse resurrection, it is resurrected. The cleric and/or recipient of the spell might need atonement afterwards though. And yes a cleic of the Silver Flame would be unlikely to cast that spell frivolously.

[Slipperychicken]

Whether a character is resurrected mostly depends on the will of the character to be resurrected. Any cleric, even one of the Silver Flame, can prepare the raise dead/resurrection/true resurrection spell. Except through direct interaction through an avatar or other agent, the deity has no method of hindering the casting of that spell. If the target of the spell does not refuse resurrection, it is resurrected. The cleric and/or recipient of the spell might need atonement afterwards though. And yes a cleic of the Silver Flame would be unlikely to cast that spell frivolously.

False. friggin text minimums


Grant Spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#grantSpells)
A deity automatically grants spells and domain powers to mortal divine spellcasters who pray to it. Most deities can grant spells from the cleric spell list, the ranger spell list, and from three or more domains. Deities with levels in the druid class can grant spells from the druid spell list, and deities with paladin levels can grant spells from the paladin spell list. A deity can withhold spells from any particular mortal as a free action; once a spell has been granted, it remains in the mortal’s mind until expended.

So yeah, if your god doesn't like your spell loadout (or just doesn't like you in particular), then no spells for you.

[Andezzar]

So yeah, if your god doesn't like your spell loadout (or just doesn't like you in particular), then no spells for you.The deity can withhold granting the spell but it cannot hinder the casting. If the Silver Flame would generally not allow its clerics to prepare resurrection, there should not be the caveat of exceptional circumstances. BTW where did you find the Silver Flame's aversion to Resurrection?
Secondly Resurrection is a 7th level spell so the casting cleric must at least be level 13, so most likely the potential recipient is of comparable level. That fact alone would make him an exceptional character.
Thirdly the OP did not specify that the cleric casting the spell was a follower of the Silver Flame. The follower was the recipient of the spell. Clerics of other deities should not have any problem with casting the spell on a follower of the Silver Flame.

[tyckspoon]

The follower was the recipient of the spell. Clerics of other deities should not have any problem with casting the spell on a follower of the Silver Flame.

The follower of the Flame, however, is not obligated to accept the spell, even if his friends should manage to find a sufficiently high-level non-Silver-Flame cleric to attempt to raise him (which is no easy task in Eberron.) So yeah, it does sound like playing a devout follower of the Flame's edicts means accepting it's a one-and-out deal. I'm not that familiar with Eberron's lore, tho; maybe there are extenuating circumstance clauses that could be claimed. Maybe when you get to higher levels you can use things like Revenance and Revivify for an 'only mostly dead' loophole. Maybe you do find that caster who can do the job for you and it turns out the character wasn't all *that* devout after all, and he'd really rather have another shot at whatever he was doing..

[LTwerewolf]

Raise Dead SRD:
If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw. ]


The person you're raising has to want to come back, and if he truly follows it, he wouldn't want to.

As far as I am aware, however, it does not mention coming back as a deathless.

[Andezzar]

Raise Dead SRD:
If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw. ]


The person you're raising has to want to come back, and if he truly follows it, he wouldn't want to.If the character did not want to be resurrected, we would not be having this conversation, would we?

Also even devout followers are only human (or dwarven or...) and as such can make mistkes. that's what atonement is for.

[LTwerewolf]

If the character did not want to be resurrected, we would not be having this conversation, would we?

Also even devout followers are only human (or dwarven or...) and as such can make mistkes. that's what atonement is for.

If the character does want to be resurrected, the conversation is moot, and you need only find a caster. That does not seem the purpose of the op.

[animewatcha]

Caster does ressing. Silver Flame folks find out and have some VERY serious Q & A with characters. Ress'ed person of Silver Flame upon ressurection potentially has sub-levels and/or abilities revoked atleast a bit ( paladin couldn't cast spells, turn undead, etc. ).

[ArendK]

The OP is somewhat correct; it's the "Purified" that are the ones against resurrection. In the Blade of the Flame trilogy (excellent series by the way), Diron was one of the Purified and against resurrection, but he didn't hold others to that same standard as far as their beliefs. He never raised those he lost alongside him.

The casual worshipper of the Silver Flame may or may not be against resurrection in as much as any faith and individual varies based on their point of view.

I've run a Purified character before; oddly enough, a Paladin with a bow (with various multiclass bits and some of the unoptimized Order of the Bow) that was seemingly borderline invincible due to dumb luck and incredible (for the group) damage output. As we leveled up, it changed our tactics at high level as far as death in battle and just raising the dead due to "well, we can't raise the Paladin if he dies..." It forced us to rely on more defensive measures, battlefield control, and cleverness to get through a lot of the encounters at higher levels without me dying (after the first barrage of damaging shots, most everything would concentrate their efforts on me).

A challenging campaign that we probably made far more difficult than it needed to be. But it was fun, so we weren't too concerned over that.

[Andezzar]

Caster does ressing. Silver Flame folks find out and have some VERY serious Q & A with characters. Ress'ed person of Silver Flame upon ressurection potentially has sub-levels and/or abilities revoked atleast a bit ( paladin couldn't cast spells, turn undead, etc. ).Exactly. The point is such a character can be resurrected, he (and possibly the character doing the resurrecting) just has to deal with the consequences. As such the statement that a follower of the Silver Flame has only one life is false.

[animewatcha]

Make the resser be one of Tem-e-whomever ( Hippo person ) somehowe. Bring about the hippo-geddon.

[MadGreenSon]

The really fun thing about Eberron (in my opinion) is that the loss of cleric or paladin abilities, etc. would only happen if the character himself felt like it should, or if he had disqualified himself for said abilities. (Like a Paladin no longer being LG)

It's one of my happy things about Eberron; the gods, should they even exist, do not intervene. Ever.

Clerics do not get denied spells, they may actually be worshiping/drawing power from concepts, not beings anyway.

There are no alignment restrictions on being a cleric of any god or pantheon, and even one of the high-ups of the Silver Flame is Lawful Evil!

So, Resurrect away! The Silver Flame is either not watching, doesn't care, or isn't a god.

Frankly, after many years of Forgotten Realms games and setting info (that my players still want to play in) it's a breath of fresh air.

[chainer1216]

For whoever asked, it says in Faiths of Eberron that clerics of the silver flame are very hesitant to raise the dead, because its seen as activity taking away a soul from where I belongs and denying the flame itself a small spark of power. They only Res true heros in times of need, and only ever followers of the flame, I remember there being something about only one non follower being brought back

[Urpriest]

An important point to make is that most of the Clerics capable of casting these spells in-setting are members of the Silver Flame anyway. I think the loli-pope is the only NPC who can cast True Resurrection for instance.

[Alleran]

An important point to make is that most of the Clerics capable of casting these spells in-setting are members of the Silver Flame anyway. I think the loli-pope is the only NPC who can cast True Resurrection for instance.
There are almost certainly also a couple of people in Io'Lokar who could do it, and maybe a few dragons (depending on their spells/archetypes). The predecessor to loli-pope can (she's a 21+ level cleric within the same bounds as Jaela, but 13th level outside it or something), as well as various others scattered about the place.

It's not exactly common. Of course, True Resurrection isn't all that common in any setting I can recall offhand.

[Socratov]

There are almost certainly also a couple of people in Io'Lokar who could do it, and maybe a few dragons (depending on their spells/archetypes). The predecessor to loli-pope can (she's a 21+ level cleric within the same bounds as Jaela, but 13th level outside it or something), as well as various others scattered about the place.

It's not exactly common. Of course, True Resurrection isn't all that common in any setting I can recall offhand.

Well, there is always the tippyverse, what if it collided with eberron as a plane :smallamused::smalltongue:

[Adverb]

I'd never heard the term loli-pope before, but I understood it immediately. Woooow.

[toapat]

Well, there is always the tippyverse, what if it collided with eberron as a plane :smallamused::smalltongue:

the tippyverse already exists tangentally to Eberron. But if it was to collide, Argonessan would find itself invaded by primal badasses while the dragonmarked houses would collapse.

although IMO Eberron needs a rework