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View Full Version : ToB + MoI synergy?



Irk
2014-04-06, 09:50 AM
I haven't been able to find anything, really, just some minor stuff like using sense motive buffs and Baffling Defense or Girallon Arms with Tiger Claw. I know there is Psionics and Incarnum synergy and ToB and Psionics synergy, but I've never seen ToB and Incarnum being used in a unique way.

PsyBomb
2014-04-06, 09:54 AM
The two are a near-ideal pairing in Gestalt, since MoI tends to be more passive and ToB more active. There is no direct PrC to merge them unfortunately, but in a regular game doing a few levels of Meldshaper early doesn't interfere with Initiator progression and can support it well.

Piggy Knowles
2014-04-06, 09:55 AM
Really? I think they go together quite nicely. Crusader + Incarnate makes an incredible tank (Crusader/Incarnate/Ironsoul Forgemaster in particular is incredibly hard to kill), and Warblade + Totemist fit like gloves. (I'm playing a Warblade/Totemist now, as a matter of fact.)

I've also built a non-Power Attack ubercharger using Warblade/Totemist, which uses pounce and many, many natural attacks from Totemist alongside charge boosters such as Leading the Charge. And Stormguard Warrior works better the more attacks you have as well.

Irk
2014-04-06, 10:16 AM
Really? I think they go together quite nicely. Crusader + Incarnate makes an incredible tank (Crusader/Incarnate/Ironsoul Forgemaster in particular is incredibly hard to kill), and Warblade + Totemist fit like gloves. (I'm playing a Warblade/Totemist now, as a matter of fact.)

I've also built a non-Power Attack ubercharger using Warblade/Totemist, which uses pounce and many, many natural attacks from Totemist alongside charge boosters such as Leading the Charge. And Stormguard Warrior works better the more attacks you have as well.

I don't think that there is NO synergy, I was just curious about specific combos that you see between other systems.

EDIT: exactly, kind of like stormguard warrior and totemist, but even more specific. Like, what kind of totemist abilities do you use in conjunction with your warblade ones?

Keld Denar
2014-04-06, 10:40 AM
It takes a move action to charge up your Incarnum Weapon soul bind for a stun on hit. That means you only have a standard action level to attack with it, most of the time. Good thing that most strikes are standard actions, eh?

Piggy Knowles
2014-04-06, 11:27 AM
How about this? It's from a build file I have on ToB shadowpouncers, but the incarnum aspect definitely plays a big role:

Silverbrow Human, Warblade 7/Totemist 2/Crinti Shadow Marauder 5/Shadow Sun Ninja 3/Uncanny Trickster 3

1. Warblade1- Martial Study (Shadow Blade Technique), Improved Unarmed Strike
2. Totemist1-
3. Totemist2- Stealthy
4. Warblade2-
5. Warblade3-
6. Crinti Shadow Marauder1- Martial Study (Clever Positioning)
7. Crinti Shadow Marauder2-
8. Crinti Shadow Marauder3-
9. Crinti Shadow Marauder4- Snap Kick
10. Crinti Shadow Marauder5-
11. Warblade4-
12. Warblade5- Ironheart Aura, Stormguard Warrior
13. Shadow Sun Ninja1-
14. Shadow Sun Ninja2-
15. Warblade6- Superior Unarmed Strike
16. Warblade7-
17. Shadow Sun Ninja3-
18. Uncanny Trickster1- Craven
19. Uncanny Trickster2-
20. Uncanny Trickster3-

LEVEL 3: Use soulmelds to increase your stealth. Bind Girallon Arms to your totem chakra, so that Punishing Stance + girallon arms + unarmed strike means that you're making five attacks, all of which deal +1d6 damage. That should power through most level-appropriate encounters, and stays good as you progress.

LEVEL 10: Shadowpouncing comes online. Now, drop the girallon arms, and instead bind the Blink Shirt for move action DimDoor. Shape Claws of the Wyrm for a pair of claw attacks. That means you're still making five attacks (three unarmed strikes plus two claws) on a full attack. Use a standard action maneuver, then DimDoor as a move action to make five additional attacks. Whee!

LEVEL 12: You pick up Stormguard Warrior, and also fun things like White Raven Strike. So, standard action White Raven Strike, which deals pretty nice damage and makes the enemy flat-footed. Then move action DimDoor for five more attacks, all of which deal sudden strike damage now. Against high AC enemies, charge up Combat Rhythm by making touch attacks, then enjoy having +25 or so for next round.

LEVEL 13: Use the maneuver from Shadow Sun Ninja to pick up Shadow Stride. That lets you free up your totem bind for something else, so feel free to go back to Girallon Arms for even more attacks. You can now also make two full attacks in a round (move action Shadow Stride followed by standard action blink shirt.) Also note that Shadow Stride doesn't end your turn like blink shirt does, so you can reorder things as you'd like.

LEVEL 17: Your third level of SSN gives you Shadow Blink, so now you can make three full attacks in a round. Alternatively, stun an enemy via White Raven Hammer, then blink/stride with Girallon Arms to attack your stunned enemy 16-18 times.

LEVEL 20: Craven ups your damage considerably, and Uncanny Trickster progressing warblade gives you IL 17 in the end, so you finish off with 9th-level maneuvers.

EDIT: Just realized this build lacks Mounted Combat, which is a requirement for Crinti Shadow Marauder. Either buy a fanged ring to get IUS, or bump IUS back to level 6, and all of the remaining feats except Stormguard Warrior back a level.

Irk
2014-04-06, 11:35 AM
How about this?

Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. Cool!

Red Fel
2014-04-06, 11:37 AM
EDIT: exactly, kind of like stormguard warrior and totemist, but even more specific. Like, what kind of totemist abilities do you use in conjunction with your warblade ones?

Basically, load up on natural weapon soulmelds (of which Totemist has a lot) and take Stormguard Warrior, take Sphinx Claws for Pounce, and go to town. It ends up looking a little like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16163412&postcount=42). There's a reason Warblade/Totemist is a classic blend when it comes to King of Smack builds.

Incarnate is harder to do, because unless you get Incarnum Focus equipment, you're replacing valuable magic item slots with Soulmelds. But as mentioned, it's hardly impossible, and Ironsoul Forgemaster can make it very handy. Further, if you end up going Unarmed Swordsage, it becomes even easier, since you'll be much less gear-dependent.

We don't talk about Soulborn.

Admittedly, part of the problem theurging the two is that ToB and MoI came in the twilight of 3.5, when the system was already winding down; a tragedy, really, since they were both incredibly fun systems.