OOTS #948 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Cuthalion]

Is Durkon's beard different?

[Actana]

I really like Roy's new look, though minor error in the last panel: Roy's arm comes from above his shoulder pad, instead of from under it.

[Morph Bark]

Poor Durkon. At least he has HD television in prison.

I'm really happy with the art style change. It gives a little bit greater detail about the arms and legs. Quite a difference with the early stuff, where it was impossible to notice someone's pants (or lack of them)!

[Ezekiel]

I hope this means Thor's not very happy with the situation. Durkon has always had an interpretation for Thor's weather...will Durkula be able to keep it believable?

[RMS Oceanic]

Hmm, a little bit of info about how this all works. Poor Durkon. :smallfrown:

[Anarion]

Interesting that Durkon has some control. Whatever the vampire may say, it's clear that he's frustrated by what Durkon is doing. Thus I figure Durkon should keep doing it.

Roy looks incredibly sweet with his new look, although I'm not sure I like the look of the Greenhilt sword. The crossbar doesn't seem sturdy enough to me.

[The Giant]

I really like Roy's new look, though minor error in the last panel: Roy's arm comes from above his shoulder pad, instead of from under it.

Should be fixed now.

[Mith]

I loved the buildup to making it seemed that Durkon sabotaged the airship. Well done!

[oppyu]

not-Durkon, you're terrible and I really hope you die a horrific screaming death that incidentally happens to leave your remains in an easily raised or resurrected form.

Also, we see Roy and Belkar in the new art style! With the sole exception of the hands (and even that's lessening with time), the new art is fantastic. Especially the second-to-last panel.

[Sunken Valley]

Image file is broken after ship is struck by lightning. Is this intentional as it encompasses the copyright?

[CrispyCriminal]

So, that's what Malack meant all those strips ago. It wasn't that his old self was dead, but rather dormant to the point that there was never a need to call upon him again.

And I was half expecting them to get waylaid by the thieves' guild, scrying bafflers and teleportation be damned.

[ImperatorV]

Any guess as to who is responsible for the storm?

I think Thor finally figured out something's up with his cleric and sent lightning to slow him down.

[Arkku]

The new font could use a bit less anti-aliasing, now it looks quite blurry. Otherwise it's an improvement.

[Giggling Ghast]

And here I thought it would be "Control Weather."

Ooooh, fancy new upgrade costumes.

[Shadic]

Thor's Nuts, indeed.

Liking the new Roy details, although that pose is making his arms look mighty long. Still gotta get accustomed to it, I suppose.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Huh, I wonder if this is Thor getting the message and trying to stop him? And I wonder how much insight this gives into Malack.

And the artwork is pretty good!

[fan4battle]

I'm happy to see more of the new art, the changes and the size makes it look way more polished, I can't say exactly how, but it's nice. Now there are just three more party members to see. :) Though I have to admit it will take a while to get used to how Roy's armor looks like, especially all the flaps at the crotch area. Also the dark spirit's hand when he leaves Durkon to hang seems way too long.
I also like how Belkar looks no different to me from before, even though he's updated. :smallbiggrin:

[iwarriorpoet]

Awesomeness. Anyone have solid information on the invading spirit in Durkon's head/psyche? Apologies if this is a repeat.

[Bluepaw]

So exciting. Thinking back now on the first time I finished the archive and caught up with the new comics -- right around the beginning of the desert book. And starting the new book in real time is just as enjoyable!

[RMS Oceanic]

I think this tidbit gives us a clue for how Durkon can undermine Durkula's charade, assuming an external force doesn't intervene to help him out. Durkula asks for something, and Durkon technically obliges the wording of the request, but it's entirely the wrong thing, and Durkula slips up a few times and the others catch on.

[Khiron]

Woah...

I am loving the new looks of everyone....

except Roy. His blue limbs are freaking me out.

[AKA_Bait]

Great on the story, as per usual. The new art style continues to bother me though. I feel like I'm looking at a totally different comic.

[Amarsir]

I'm gonna need a bit longer to get used to the art change; it's still weird-looking to me. However, this strip above the last one shows me what's possible with it, and I can appreciate the potential.

[Dunsparce]

"Usually the process takes a few months"

I guess this confirms this in the norm for Vampires in OotS

[SimonMoon6]

Thor's nuts? I'll say he is.

[BeethroBudkin07]

The last few panels were simply beautiful. Digging the new art style! Keep up the good work, Rich! :D

[FleshrakerAbuse]

I like these smooth-type transitions between story-arcs, although I sometimes wish to see more of the flight itself.

Also, it's been a while, and I can't remember-does V have any detect thoughts spells? If she accidentally hits Durkon with it... What would happen?

[MagicalMeat]

Belkar is a little different; you can see his hood even when he's not wearing it. Although maybe he just put the hood on with out putting over his head? I really like how crisp this looks, also.
Just look at em waves!

[Fitzclowningham]

Huh, I wonder if this is Thor getting the message and trying to stop him? And I wonder how much insight this gives into Malack.

And the artwork is pretty good!

Good call. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the next panel cuts to Thor.

[RMS Oceanic]

I like these smooth-type transitions between story-arcs, although I sometimes wish to see more of the flight itself.

Also, it's been a while, and I can't remember-does V have any detect thoughts spells? If she accidentally hits Durkon with it... What would happen?

Detect Thoughts is a Mind-Affecting spell, which the undead are immune to.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Thor's Nuts indeed. In all meanings of the phrase.

[drazen]

Has Durkon ever actually used the phrase "Thor's nuts" in the company of OOTS? I don't have time to read the entire archive, but he seems a bit too "proper" to have done so.

As RMS Oceanic said, it seems to provide a "false clue" for Roy, if he bothers to put that INT score to good use. Durkon killing Zz'dtri is another clue; it doesn't seem like Durkon to do that.

Finally, Durkon DID pause in his mini-battle with the remnants of the Linear Guild. Are we sure Durkon wasn't struggling then?

So many questions (also, so many noodles, but I think we covered that in #947 discussion).

[AdmiralCheez]

Well, we're up to three of the order who have been upgraded to the new style. Unfortunately, the three I was most looking forward to (V, Elan, and Haley) still haven't shown themselves. Oh well, we'll get there eventually.

[Shale]

That is a neat way to showcase Roy and Belkar's new looks. More importantly, though - go Durkon! Keep thinking!

[MadarseLizard]

I think Belkar noticed something's up with Durkula.

[WolvesbaneIII]

I rather enjoy the new art style. It was a little bit wonky and unsettling at first, but it now appears to be a vast improvement.

Good work.

[Loreweaver15]

Welp, looks like it's shorts-eating time for me. That's weird as hell that this isn't a unique case, but I guess I read the contextual clues incorrectly.

[Shining Wrath]

The High Priest of Hel has done this before, or knows how it's supposed to work. Enough times to speak of "usually".
Unless HPoH is lying, Durkon has no chance of breaking free. But then, if there is a chance for Durkon to break free, HPoH is strongly motivated to lie, plus the extra sadistic pleasure from taunting a helpless prisoner
"Eternal dormancy" does not sound pleasant at all. Poor Durkon.
"Thor's Nuts" does NOT really sound like Durkon, it sounds like a profane soldier not an ordained cleric. I can't think of Durkon ever speaking like that before, and the OotS has been in some startling situations before.
The "speed of thought" is overrated; nervous impulses propagate at ~250 MPH, which means an extended dialogue would in fact consume some noticeable time

[CrispyCriminal]

I think Belkar noticed something's up with Durkula.

But of course, he just mentioned Thor after a bolt of lightning just blew up the rear of the Mechane.

Brings the point home that he is no longer a follower of Thor, contrary to what hollow Durkon wants them to think.

[ChristianSt]

And here I thought it would be "Control Weather."

This is exactly what I thought until the last panel.


Maybe he asked Durkon for those two words a bit earlier? ... :smalleek:

[NerdyKris]

I definitely think Thor is a little angry at the current situation. Although Hel seemed to imply he didn't know. Coincidence or Thor trying to save his disciple?

[fan4battle]

I think Belkar noticed something's up with Durkula.

I know it looks that way, but doesn't Belkar look that way at Durkon whenever he speaks? Or at least since he became a vampire?

[Quild]

Has Durkon ever actually used the phrase "Thor's nuts" in the company of OOTS? I don't have time to read the entire archive, but he seems a bit too "proper" to have done so.

Looks so weird to me that I highly doubt it.

Also, I think that not-Durkon may be lying. It the process takes a few months, then time is definitely valuable to him.

[Dracarot]

I wonder if Scoundrel's ships "speed of plot" accounts for probability of bad weather, enemy encounters, etc. when its speeding along? I'd also be curious as to how the ships speed would be impacted by a quest that would inevitably end with the ship being destroyed.

[LuPuWei]

Wait, was that "Thor is nuts" or "The nuts of Thor"?

Makes a big difference...

[Shining Wrath]

Bandanna shows what the new art style can do in the top panel of page 2. That's a dramatic pose not really possible in the old style.

I want to agree with those who have observed that Durkon taking Thor's name in vain at this particular moment, given that lightning is a manifestation of Thor's power, is likely to set some wheels turning. Certainly in in Belkar's brain; and if someone with some smarts not blinded by guilt (e.g., V or Haley, but not Roy) observed that scene Belkar will have back up.

[Edhelras]

Is "Thor's nuts!" something the real Durkon would say, really?

[Shining Wrath]

Is "Thor's nuts!" something the real Durkon would say, really?

That is the subject of intense mootation at the moment, and I personally think not. Lightning is Thor's power made manifest; would a priest of Thor take his name (and dangly bits) in vain because of lightning?

[YossarianLives]

Wow...

I'm loving the new art style, its really beautiful. Anyhoo who thinks they get shipwrecked and washed up on the orc island again.

[Gift Jeraff]

Is Durkon's beard different?

I think it reaches closer to his eyes.

[Gwenovier]

OMG, I was just randomly refreshing the page and I see a new comic pop up! I absolutely LOVE the new art upgrade, Giant. Wasn't sure how I felt about it at first, but as soon as I stopped a realized that this comic had long since ceased being simply a stick-figure comic strip that made D&D references I was able to appreciate it more.

[Shale]

That is the subject of intense mootation at the moment, and I personally think not. Lightning is Thor's power made manifest; would a priest of Thor take his name (and dangly bits) in vain because of lightning?

Yeah, it seems that Durkula is leaning heavily on the "Thor's X" comments ("Right as Thor's rain" was one that people thought sounded like somebody trying to talk like Durkon, rather than actually talking like Durkon, even before the big reveal) without really checking to make sure that Durkon himself talks like that, rather than looking at dwarves' speech patterns in general.

[rman]

It does look like Durkula is going to have a hard time living up to old "tight iron pants" patterns even with the mind link help.

[Vinsfeld]

Nice clothes to Roy

[Porthos]

Has Durkon ever actually used the phrase "Thor's nuts" in the company of OOTS? I don't have time to read the entire archive, but he seems a bit too "proper" to have done so.

As RMS Oceanic said, it seems to provide a "false clue" for Roy, if he bothers to put that INT score to good use. Durkon killing Zz'dtri is another clue; it doesn't seem like Durkon to do that.

Finally, Durkon DID pause in his mini-battle with the remnants of the Linear Guild. Are we sure Durkon wasn't struggling then?

So many questions (also, so many noodles, but I think we covered that in #947 discussion).



The High Priest of Hel has done this before, or knows how it's supposed to work. Enough times to speak of "usually".
Unless HPoH is lying, Durkon has no chance of breaking free. But then, if there is a chance for Durkon to break free, HPoH is strongly motivated to lie, plus the extra sadistic pleasure from taunting a helpless prisoner
"Eternal dormancy" does not sound pleasant at all. Poor Durkon.
"Thor's Nuts" does NOT really sound like Durkon, it sounds like a profane soldier not an ordained cleric. I can't think of Durkon ever speaking like that before, and the OotS has been in some startling situations before.
The "speed of thought" is overrated; nervous impulses propagate at ~250 MPH, which means an extended dialogue would in fact consume some noticeable time



Is "Thor's nuts!" something the real Durkon would say, really?

Have people forgotten all of the "Thor's <BLANK>" expressions that Durkon likes to say? :smallconfused: It's practically a calling card of his. :smallconfused:

Thor's dodenum. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html) and Thor's taint (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html) for two examples.

There are many more.

As for the risque language, plenty of that in the comic as well from him.

[Shining Wrath]

Yeah, it seems that Durkula is leaning heavily on the "Thor's X" comments ("Right as Thor's rain" was one that people thought sounded like somebody trying to talk like Durkon, rather than actually talking like Durkon, even before the big reveal) without really checking to make sure that Durkon himself talks like that, rather than looking at dwarves' speech patterns in general.

And I think that we'll find out just how much Roy has noticed when the first feeding time for Durkon arrives. I think Belkar will warn against this plan. The real question is how much V has noticed, because if the Order has to stop a vampire with his fangs already fastened in Roy's neck, there's only one person who might be able to do that quickly.

[Tylorious]

I'm really enjoying the new artwork. Roy looks awesome!

[Jay R]

I suspect that this is the start of how Durkon will eventually make the vamnpire reveal himself, but I also expect it to take a long time before it happens.

Eventually, Durkon will show something out of date - for instance, scenes from his first adventuring party, without showing his reconciliation with Roy at the end. True memories, but which lead to a conclusion that no longer applies.

[Threadnaught]

Oh dear, Belkar seems to know something is amiss.

Exactly how hard is it for Roy to resist his urges to murder Belkar? I doubt any accusations of Durkula being an imposter would help him. It'd be amusing if Roy were the one to kill Belkar and fulfil the prophesy, if only for the sake of irony.

[Porthos]

Folks, I think this train needs to be derailed before it even leaves the station. While the High Priest of Hel might very well slip up later, there is nothing, I repeat NOTHING out of character for Durkon to say "Thor's Nuts".

Not a bit. He's had innumerable examples of this throughout the comic. It's perfectly in character for him to say something like this.

[Shining Wrath]

Have people forgotten all of the "Thor's <BLANK>" expressions that Durkon likes to say? :smallconfused: It's practically a calling card of his. :smallconfused:

Thor's dodenum. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html) and Thor's taint (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html) for two examples.

There are many more.

As for the risque language, plenty of that in the comic as well from him.

I still think "Thor's nuts" is a step further; and furthermore, should a priest of Thor be upset by lightning?

[Shale]

Folks, I think this train needs to be derailed before it even leaves the station. While the High Priest of Hel might very well slip up later, there is nothing, I repeat NOTHING out of character for Durkon to say "Thor's Nuts".

Not a bit. He's had innumerable examples of this throughout the comic. It's perfectly in character for him to say something like this.

My point is that he's saying Thor's X more often than Durkon would be expected to. "Oh, I need to be emphatic here? I'll swear by Thor, that should do it." And it does seem odd to take Thor's name in vain while reacting to a storm that (Durkon would believe, at least) Thor sent in the first place.

[kenlund]

Wow, the OOTS take on vampires is really chilling. That inside every vampire a soul is being held in torment and squeezed for memories until he/she is stored for eternal dormancy. Horrific!

When Durkon was vampire-ized, I assumed we see some shot of Durkon's soul up on lawful good afterlife hoping for resurrection.

i hope the lightening does mean that Thor has noticed things are amiss with his faithful cleric.

[Porthos]

I still think "Thor's nuts" is a step further; and furthermore, should a priest of Thor be upset by lightning?

Two things.

"Taint" is worse than nuts? :smalltongue: I remember the brouhaha that occurred when Durkon said that. Fainting couches were abundant.

Personally imma gonna say, "No.". :smallwink:

Furthermore, he has said things like "Wankers","Bitch" and the like. This really is in the same ballpark.

Secondly, yes, yes I think he would if HE was the one being struck by lightning. :smallwink: He might very well say something immediately afterwards (either pro or con about Thor). But in the immediacy of the situation? Yes, I find it believable.

If people are looking for HPH to mess up, look for it in whatever theological excuse/explanation he gives for being struck by lightning. There is far more room for error there than a stereotypical Thor's XXXXXXX running gag.

[faustin]

What does "eternal dormancy" exactly means? will the spirit kick out Durkon´ souls after gaining all his memories... or something worse :smalleek:?

[Dr.Starky]

Man, I think Roy looks really stylin'.

[Shining Wrath]

Two things.

"Taint" is worse than nuts? :smalltongue: I remember the brouhaha that occurred when Durkon said that. Fainting couches were abundant.

Personally imma gonna say, "No.". :smallwink:

Furthermore, he has said things like "Wankers","Bitch" and the like. This really is in the same ballpark.

Secondly, yes, yes I think he would if HE was the one being struck by lightning. :smallwink: He might very well say something immediately afterwards (either pro or con about Thor). But in the immediacy of the situation? Yes, I find it believable.

If people are looking for HPH to mess up, look for it in whatever theological excuse/explanation he gives for being struck by lightning. There is far more room for error there than a stereotypical Thor's XXXXXXX running gag.

Fair enough. Thor is a rough and ready deity, after all, and may not object to having his anatomical portions referred to in a familiar manner. :smallbiggrin: Agreed that Durkon is going to keep on trying to get HPoH to slip up.

[Porthos]

My point is that he's saying Thor's X more often than Durkon would be expected to. "Oh, I need to be emphatic here? I'll swear by Thor, that should do it." And it does seem odd to take Thor's name in vain while reacting to a storm that (Durkon would believe, at least) Thor sent in the first place.

The problem here is, we are under the spell of Dramatic Irony. We KNOW this isn't Durkon, so we are actively looking for any possible little clue. I think there is therefore a tendency to blow up anything we see to massive proportions.

Let me put it to you this way. Say we didn't know about the HPoH. Would any of us have found that exclamation usual?

I wouldn't have. Not in the slightest.

As for using it more often that Durkon, I believe he's only done a "Thor's XXXXXX" gag twice. Both in situations where it would be expected.

Again, I can see the HPoH slipping up. In fact, I am almost counting on it. But this? Not even close. I find it utterly and perfectly in character. The only way it wouldn't be is if Durkon once told Roy that due to a experience in his childhood he would never take the Nuts of Thor in vain.

But, if we're gonna use Dramatic Irony to look for clues, allow me to invoke the fact that we are now on Page 4 of the newest book. Little early for Team OotS to get suspicious, I think. Well, outside of the people who are always suspicious. But who listens to Belkar, anyways? :smalltongue:

[leon666]

"Thor's nuts, tha were impressive" is said by the the ginger dwarf near the end of comic #947.
Also I don't understand everyone saying Belkar has realised something is up... Didn't he want to kill the evil vampire less than 10 strips ago?

[Lombard]

Took me exactly 2 strips to get comfy with all aspects of the art change. You stragglers will come around. :smalltongue:

[ChaosArchon]

Alright while yes we all hope for the party to catch on that its not Durkon, I feel like it won't happen until at least in the middle of this book, just as tension from other sources comes to head as well. Its just the dramatically appropriate time, so I feel like e won't see the party call Durkula out for quite some time.

[Rawhide]

The thread title would have been even better if he had blue eyes...

[LordRahl6]

actually, outside of the fact that the last two strips have happened "at the speed of thought," Durkon playing the information game correctly. Holding back a lot early, and then inundating the HPoH with useless stuff as time wears on.:smallamused:

[DaggerPen]

Oh sweet Thor. That punchline. I can't.

A fantastic strip. And I love seeing more familiar faces in the new style! That panel with the ship being struck by lightning is stunning. I kind of wish the legs on Roy and Belkar were a bit thicker, but Bandana looks gorgeous.

[Cikomyr]

What a great buildup for that punchline

[zimmerwald1915]

For those wanting gauntlets...it looks like Roy isn't wearing any. But Mme. Thundershield is wearing an oven mitt. Other interesting art tidbits: Roy has the new pauldrons with the down-turned tips, Belkar's hood is visible, and the lightning bolt directly struck an engine (you can tell because the prop has stopped spinning). It looks like the Mechane will be forced to crash-land, but where? Probably not over water.

EDIT: I concur with those wanting to see Elan, Haley, and Vaarsuvius. From how Bandana, Durkon, and Roy are drawn, Haley will probably have a seam up the side of whatever top she's wearing, and she and Elan will probably have Eyepatch-guy-style boots. Will V have a Belkar-esque hood?

[Dervag]

May I just say that I like EVERYTHING about the new art style except the arms and legs?

The problem is just... when the arms and legs are colored in, it somehow creates the expectation that they will be slightly more anatomically realistic. OoTS heads are circles, but that's still at least vaguely the right shape for a humanoid head; OoTS torsos are rectangles, but likewise that's at least vaguely the right shape for a humanoid torso.

OoTS arms are a few inches in diameter, have three digits at the end instead of five, and bend in unnatural places. They do not look even vaguely right for a humanoid figure.

But that was totally fine and everyone could ignore that... until we start seeing them colored in.

Everything else good, but I wish we could go back to black stick figure lines for arms and legs- that, or have them drawn to a realistic thickness and number of fingers so they look human instead of being these weird whippy alien tentacles.

[Raphite1]

Great strip; it's going to be sad watching Durkon's friends interact with the not-Durkon vampire during this story arc.

New art is creeeepy, especially Leisure-Suit Roy.


I loved the buildup to making it seemed that Durkon sabotaged the airship. Well done!

I don't think that happened in this comic...

[wyrmhole]

Not a bit. He's had innumerable examples of this throughout the comic. It's perfectly in character for him to say something like this.

Indeed, there's nothing that seems unusual about that as an expression of surprise and shock -- even if he later decides to call it an omen of Thor, it was still a giant unexpected blast of lightning hitting the ship. Also, Belkar's look just means that he continues to be unimpressed by Durkula's Durkon-esque behavior, and would still rather Roy give him the green light for stabby-time.

I don't think, even once the team figures out what is happening, they'll look back at an incident like this and say "We should have seen the signs..."

[canpinter]

So here is something to consider dose the dark spirit controlling him know if Durkon is hiding something from it. it seams Durkon picks what memory pops up so could he show him something that gives the wrong impersonation of what the truth is. for instance if at some point in the past Roy had introduced himself as bob to someone for whatever reason could Durkon show the spirit that memory and convince him Roys name was really bob?

[Shale]

actually, outside of the fact that the last two strips have happened "at the speed of thought," Durkon playing the information game correctly. Holding back a lot early, and then inundating the HPoH with useless stuff as time wears on.:smallamused:

The best outcome for Durkon here would be that HPOH gets more and more frustrated with their "talks" and avoids going back for new information whenever it's not absolutely necessary - and thus is more likely to give himself away when he wings it on some apparently minor point.

[theNater]

Love the bit about Roy's name. Subtle and brilliant.

[Kariccia]

Thor's nuts? Yup.

I'm not fully sure on that saying though. It seems like the expression came from that random dwarf a comic ago, not Durkon proper. It's not that far off though. The way he says it seems weirder to me. Has Durkon shouted like that before? The :smalleek: makes sense, but I can't recall him ever shouting one of his Thor comments or anything else for that matter.

[imaloony]

I still think "Thor's nuts" is a step further; and furthermore, should a priest of Thor be upset by lightning?

The Lightning? No. The Mechane catching on fire? Yes.

Also, I would like to take a moment to appreciate how sexy this art upgrade looks. Rich outdid himself.

[Porthos]

For those wanting gauntlets...it looks like Roy isn't wearing any. But Mme. Thundershield is wearing an oven mitt. Other interesting art tidbits: Roy has the new pauldrons with the down-turned tips, Belkar's hood is visible, and the lightning bolt directly struck an engine (you can tell because the prop has stopped spinning). It looks like the Mechane will be forced to crash-land, but where? Probably not over water.

It's good to see that Rich is finally getting around to addressing Roy's nummerable faulds. (https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/statuses/453209037174083585) :smallamused:

PS: <elan>: I learned a new word today. :-p

[Shining Wrath]

The thread title would have been even better if he had blue eyes...

Pete Townsend would beat High Priest of Hel unconscious with his guitar.

[zimmerwald1915]

It's good to see that Rich is finally getting around to addressing Roy's nummerable faulds. (https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/statuses/453209037174083585) :smallamused:

PS: <elan>: I learned a new word today. :-p
I sure hope you're linking me to the Index of the Giant's Comments, because I refuse to read Twitter :smalltongue:

[Smolder]

Hey, Durkon. You've got a little dwarf in your eye.

[Grey Watcher]

Interesting. I'm guessing the original question was something like "What was the name of that deity you worshipped again?"

Though the Dark Spirit does suggest that, by showing him longer memory sequences like this, Durkon's actually speeding up the process (since, in addition to getting Thor's name, he's gotten info about Durkon's mother, how Durkon first learned of Thor in the first place, etc.)

I dunno why, but I always imagined that Roy's pants and sleeves would be a different color than his chest plate. Ah well, the things you learn from an art upgrade. :smallsmile:

Weird how different things are standing out to me now. After all the furor over the New Hands, I barely notice them now, but the movement lines are starting to feel a little off. Also, maybe it's the way he's leaning, but Roy's proportions look strange. Bandana, on the other hand, looks awesome. I'm sure by 950, I'll be entirely used to the new proportions and everything and it'll all be smooth sailing.

[Porthos]

I sure hope you're linking me to the Index of the Giant's Comments, because I refuse to read Twitter :smalltongue:

It's worth it this time. :smalltongue:

[Rawhide]

Pete Townsend would beat High Priest of Hel unconscious with his guitar.

I wonder what Rupert Giles (https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=118880414873224) would do...

[Particle_Man]

I definitely think Thor is a little angry at the current situation. Although Hel seemed to imply he didn't know. Coincidence or Thor trying to save his disciple?

Thor would at the very least be angry that one of his priests has been killed and the body walking around as a vampire.

If this vampirism is a common enough thing, presumably over thousands of years Thor would have figured out what vampires are (at the very least, the souls of his faithful followers have not gone to the afterlife like they are supposed to, and if at least one dwarven vampire gets staked and the soul released to Thor's realm, Thor would know more about how vampires work).

But I don't know what the discussion about Roy and Belkar and the others discovering involves. They pretty much know it is not really Durkon. They just mistakenly (except for Belkar) think that this vampire is more concerned with saving the world than following its own agenda (they don't know that it is actually Hel's agenda). I don't see how a verbal slip up (or series of such) would give them new information about Hel or Hel's agenda. It might at best tell them that the vampire doesn't know what Durkon know, but they might chalk this up to vampires losing memories over time of their body's previous existence as a living body.

And funny thing, I didn't even notice the art style on this strip until it was pointed out to me again. So I think I am officially used to it. Now the avatars on these forums all look weird. I wonder if there is a chance of an update for them?

[Loreweaver15]

Question for you, Rich: between panels four and five, Durkula zips his arm up to grab Durkon's beard, but the motion lines indicate he brought his arm down from above to grab Durkon's beard. How was that motion supposed to go?

[wyrmhole]

Wow, the OOTS take on vampires is really chilling. That inside every vampire a soul is being held in torment and squeezed for memories until he/she is stored for eternal dormancy. Horrific!

Yeah, and I fear the "dormancy" simply means that the vampire spirit will no longer have any need to communicate with him, thus keeping him from having even a tangential effect on events, while still being aware of everything being done with his body.

[Shale]

Question for you, Rich: between panels four and five, Durkula zips his arm up to grab Durkon's beard, but the motion lines indicate he brought his arm down from above to grab Durkon's beard. How was that motion supposed to go?

He grabs Durkon's beard and then pulls said beard down, towards his own face. We're just seeing the downward movement, since otherwise there would be conflicting sets of motion lines.

[Grey Watcher]

Interesting. I'm guessing the original question was something like "What was the name of that deity you worshipped again?"

Oh, duh, the one of the soldiers who pulled up Durkon's mom said "Thor's nuts", so he was probably just looking for an appropriate "curse".

[Rawhide]

It's worth it this time. :smalltongue:

Yes. Yes, it truly is.

[Loreweaver15]

He grabs Durkon's beard and then pulls said beard down, towards his own face. We're just seeing the downward movement, since otherwise there would be conflicting sets of motion lines.

That makes significantly more sense!

[Doug Lampert]

Wow, the OOTS take on vampires is really chilling. That inside every vampire a soul is being held in torment and squeezed for memories until he/she is stored for eternal dormancy. Horrific!

When Durkon was vampire-ized, I assumed we see some shot of Durkon's soul up on lawful good afterlife hoping for resurrection.

But even prior to the HPoH reveal that was almost certainly not how it works.

You can't be true ressurected while undead, true resurrection in no way involves the body, only the soul, so this means that ALL undead in D&D land somehow involve the soul of the dead guy. Which would also explain why making even mindless undead is EVIL by the book and why undead are far easier to make than other forms of constructs. All the arguments against this I've ever seen struck me as silly rationalizations by people who want creating worker zombies to be neutral, even though its one of a handful of acts where the core rules are quite clear on the alignment of the act.

Basically, "Your soul is happy in its appointed afterlife while your body wanders around" is seriously unlikely for ANY form of D&D undead. And I'm pretty sure there are plenty of sources that indicated that vampires and liches and other undead templates retain the soul of the dead guy. The only interpretations that really "work" with D&D rules and cosmology are either that being vampirized trapped Durkon's soul and added a dominant negative energy spirit, or being vampirized insta corrupted Durkon's soul in much like the way a Helm of Opposite Alignment would.

The "normal" interpretation seems to be the "same dominant soul but with an alignment change" one, but Rich's interpretation also works for me.

[LasVegasLawyer]

The best outcome for Durkon here would be that HPOH gets more and more frustrated with their "talks" and avoids going back for new information whenever it's not absolutely necessary - and thus is more likely to give himself away when he wings it on some apparently minor point.

But HPOH outright said that he would absorb all of Durkon's memories eventually. So whether it occurs sooner rather than later isn't a big issue to HPOH. And memories transferred at the speed of thought means the more Durkon tries to show him irrelevant memories, the sooner Durkon will be forced to show him all of the most relevant and important stuff.

To me, the only way the OOTS realizes the deception is through different interpretations of Durkon's memories. For example, LG Durkon looks at his self-sacrifice as ennobling, while LE HPOH will not feel the same way about it, and probably couldn't even fake it given his alignment. But is that enough of a difference to convince Roy that his friend isn't actually in the driver's seat? Only time will tell. (Well, that or Rich. But Rich doesn't tend to drop major spoilers.)

[Finagle]

Man, those pitchfork-hands just look plain weird.

It's like the comic has entered an uncanny valley in between stick figures and realistic sketches. Real enough to look weird, but not stylized enough that we don't notice the abstractions.

[Angel Bob]

Huh. The HPoH's dialogue and mannerisms are awfully similar to Redcloak's, enough for me to remark on it while reading. I suppose Lawful Evil folks do think similarly, but this is up the wazoo.

[zimmerwald1915]

Basically, "Your soul is happy in its appointed afterlife while your body wanders around" is seriously unlikely for ANY form of D&D undead.
For what it's worth, Dorukan seems to think that's how zombies normally work. And Xykon's ability to bind Lirian's soul in his gem seems to indicate that the soul isn't normally involved in the creation of zombies.

[Poppy Appletree]

@Giant: Just in case nobody's mentioned it, there's some blue creeping below the bottom border of the comic.

[Edhelras]

Let me put it to you this way. Say we didn't know about the HPoH. Would any of us have found that exclamation usual?

I wouldn't have. Not in the slightest.


But... I did! I really found it a bit off, with that exclamation from Durkon. 1) The reference to Thor's testicles, it was a bit ... un-Durkonesque, I think. He doesn't seem to me, in my image of him, to be very comfortable with speaking about sexual "things" at all. However, he's quite comfortable with discussing gastrointestinal issues and such.
2) The whole thing with Durkon being upset by lightning is unusual in itself, isn't it? At least if one supposes Durkon still has any remnant of being a cleric of Thor, or at least that he remembers his former life as a Clr of Thor. At the very least, he should be acquainted with lightning, not being upset by it.

I don't think Roy has to discover the fraud right away. But this moment ought to one of those "don't tell me this wasn't foreshadowed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0930.html)" foreshadowings.
And, most probably Belkar will notice this in a "as if I care"-fashion, and spring it at a later stage, offhandedly.

[factotum]

Hmmm. Not-Durkon is already getting sloppy--he should realise that something said by a random dwarf in a scene that includes Durkon as a child is not necessarily something Durkon himself would ever say, and I reckon Belkar knows it too. Unfortunately, Belkar is not the sharpest tool in the drawer, and isn't likely to sit on the information until he can put together a more convincing proof...

[Cerlis]

I love Roy's tunic..coat...thing.

................




!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nightsbridge]

But even prior to the HPoH reveal that was almost certainly not how it works.

You can't be true ressurected while undead, true resurrection in no way involves the body, only the soul, so this means that ALL undead in D&D land somehow involve the soul of the dead guy. Which would also explain why making even mindless undead is EVIL by the book and why undead are far easier to make than other forms of constructs. All the arguments against this I've ever seen struck me as silly rationalizations by people who want creating worker zombies to be neutral, even though its one of a handful of acts where the core rules are quite clear on the alignment of the act.

Core rules or not, we have proof in the comic that not all undead function that way. Take Roy's thankfully temporary stint as a flesh golem for instance. His soul was still about spying on things while his body was entangled in horrible necromantic rituals, and was free to travel to his particular afterlife when it suited him.

[wyrmhole]

But I don't know what the discussion about Roy and Belkar and the others discovering involves. They pretty much know it is not really Durkon. They just mistakenly (except for Belkar) think that this vampire is more concerned with saving the world than following its own agenda (they don't know that it is actually Hel's agenda).

I don't think Roy knows that. I think he's unsure what's actually happened. But based on his comments, in particular his speech at the end of the last book (and the vampire spirit's statement to Hel), that he's operating on the theory that it really is Durkon, but changed/corrupted by negative energy to an unknown extent. Yet not so much that he can't still consider him to be, at some level, his old friend Durkon.

Belkar did flat out say that it isn't Durkon, but even then it's not clear that he really believes it's a new spirit, rather than the same spirit changed by vampirism so much that it can't really be considered the old Durkon.

[Grey Watcher]

Core rules or not, we have proof in the comic that not all undead function that way. Take Roy's thankfully temporary stint as a flesh golem for instance. His soul was still about spying on things while his body was entangled in horrible necromantic rituals, and was free to travel to his particular afterlife when it suited him.

It's a silly distinction for most purposes, but technically, creating flesh/bone/whatever golems isn't necromancy. It's taking the same principles that allow you to make a clay golem or a stone golem and applying them to living remains. That's why Grubwiggler is so adamant that he's NOT making any undead. Had Grubby been a proper necromancer and made Roy's corpse into an animated skeleton with necromancy, then we might've seen something different happen with Roy's soul.

[zimmerwald1915]

But... I did! I really found it a bit off, with that exclamation from Durkon. 1) The reference to Thor's testicles, it was a bit ... un-Durkonesque, I think. He doesn't seem to me, in my image of him, to be very comfortable with speaking about sexual "things" at all. However, he's quite comfortable with discussing gastrointestinal issues and such.
What do you think a "taint" is?


2) The whole thing with Durkon being upset by lightning is unusual in itself, isn't it? At least if one supposes Durkon still has any remnant of being a cleric of Thor, or at least that he remembers his former life as a Clr of Thor. At the very least, he should be acquainted with lightning, not being upset by it.
There's lightning, and then there's lightning. The lightning in strip 200, for instance, struck several miles away and didn't hit anything important to Durkon. The lightning in this strip struck the Mechane's engine and started a fire, both of which are very bad for "Durkon." Particularly if the Mechane crash-lands into the ocean.


Core rules or not, we have proof in the comic that not all undead function that way. Take Roy's thankfully temporary stint as a flesh golem for instance. His soul was still about spying on things while his body was entangled in horrible necromantic rituals, and was free to travel to his particular afterlife when it suited him.
Golems are not undead. Grubwiggler's a scumbag, but everything he said about golems was accurate.

EDIT: ninja'd.

[warrl]

But even prior to the HPoH reveal that was almost certainly not how it works.

You can't be true ressurected while undead, true resurrection in no way involves the body, only the soul, so this means that ALL undead in D&D land somehow involve the soul of the dead guy. Which would also explain why making even mindless undead is EVIL by the book and why undead are far easier to make than other forms of constructs. All the arguments against this I've ever seen struck me as silly rationalizations by people who want creating worker zombies to be neutral, even though its one of a handful of acts where the core rules are quite clear on the alignment of the act.

Basically, "Your soul is happy in its appointed afterlife while your body wanders around" is seriously unlikely for ANY form of D&D undead. And I'm pretty sure there are plenty of sources that indicated that vampires and liches and other undead templates retain the soul of the dead guy. The only interpretations that really "work" with D&D rules and cosmology are either that being vampirized trapped Durkon's soul and added a dominant negative energy spirit, or being vampirized insta corrupted Durkon's soul in much like the way a Helm of Opposite Alignment would.

The "normal" interpretation seems to be the "same dominant soul but with an alignment change" one, but Rich's interpretation also works for me.

This would mean that a body can't be zombified or walking-skeletonized if the original soul is unavailable.

Why would the original soul be unavailable? Resurrected, or raised with a body-fragment. Soul-jarred. Resurrected, then killed and made undead. I'm sure there are more.

On the other hand, if all undead have the original soul, why are there mindless undead?

[wyrmhole]

Edit to replace pointless re-statement of golem =/= undead with this perhaps equally pointless comment. :)


What do you think a "taint" is?


Yah, while "Thor's nuts" may be worse in terms of degree of profanity (by our current society's standards), "Thor's taint" is actually a lot worse in terms of mental imagery. O_o

[Cerlis]

I think if Thor has figured out what has happened (which is entirely not possible)

His offense would be less at one of this followers being turned into undead and more that ANY of his CLERICS were turned into the Vampiric High Priest of Hel.

Remember, according to Durkon, Dwarves hate her so much that she doesnt even have any clerics. Not even evil ones.

So even if some lvl 1 commoner ALter boy was raised as a high priest of Hel i'm sure he'd be pissed as....

hel.

[Morgan Wick]

I wonder if Durkon is trying to inculcate in Durkula an appreciation of "the dwarven way"? Like, trying to turn him genuinely good by giving him a barrage of good deeds?

[Edhelras]

What do you think a "taint" is?

Actually, I just found out right now (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=taint)... so, *yuck* I guess...

But still - anatomically, you could really discuss whether that word relates to the gastrointestinal function, or the more sexually relevant parts of the body?

I think there is an important thing here, that the Dwarf saying "Thor's nuts!" wasn't really Durkon, it wasn't he who said it, but some other Dwarf, living many years ago. At least as a foreshadowing of Durkon's possible ways to reveal the fraud, this is important. A classical way of fooling an imposter, isn't it?

[Crusher]

Belkar's already looking increasingly suspicious of Durkon, rather than gradually growing comfortable with him. I mean, we know the Belkster doesn't trust him, but glaring daggers at even surprised outbursts is quite a bit of concentrated mistrust. Which means I think we might be in for a confrontation on this sooner rather than later. I'm curious to see how it ends up meshing with the rest of the plot arc.

[The Smallest]

Durkon/Vampire Durkon really doesn't look like Durkon anymore. I don't like this new art style, but at least I can tell who the other characters are. Durkon looks like a completely different character. I don't know if it's the boots, or the longer less curved, mouth, but I would not recognize the new Durkon if he was put beside the old one.

[Porthos]

But... I did! I really found it a bit off, with that exclamation from Durkon. 1) The reference to Thor's testicles, it was a bit ... un-Durkonesque, I think. He doesn't seem to me, in my image of him, to be very comfortable with speaking about sexual "things" at all. However, he's quite comfortable with discussing gastrointestinal issues and such.
2) The whole thing with Durkon being upset by lightning is unusual in itself, isn't it? At least if one supposes Durkon still has any remnant of being a cleric of Thor, or at least that he remembers his former life as a Clr of Thor. At the very least, he should be acquainted with lightning, not being upset by it.

I don't think Roy has to discover the fraud right away. But this moment ought to one of those "don't tell me this wasn't foreshadowed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0930.html)" foreshadowings.
And, most probably Belkar will notice this in a "as if I care"-fashion, and spring it at a later stage, offhandedly.

Here's the thing though. Much like you can't unring a bell (shut up, wizards :smalltongue:), it can be hard to dissasociate one's self from the knowledge we have that this isn't Durkon. On some level I feel that this has to be influencing things. At the very least what would ordinarily be seen as a new facet of Durkon's character is now taken as a sign that this isn't Durkon. To put it another way, if any other character showed a new side of their character, should we be expected to go, "AHA! The Trigak Hypothesis was right all along - we just guessed the wrong person!".

...

Well some might. But we probably shouldn't. :smalltongue:

As for saying "nuts", much like the arguments that were brought up when (what has now been revelaed to be) the HPoH said "*****", it's not like Durkon hasn't used rough and ready language before.

Where this idea that Durkon is prim and proper comes from, I'm not entierly sure.

Finally, when it comes to the lightning, as I said, let's see what he does next comic. A two word exclamation at the very end of a comic really doesn't say too much one way or the other, IMO.

[b_jonas]

I'd like to learn two things from the following strips.


Does the Mechane work fine as a sea ship just as well as an air ship?
What does the letter "z" look like in the new font?

[MagicalMeat]

I briefly thought that Durkula caused this in some way, but then I realized that Durkula likely doesn't have any weather spells anymore, but more importantly, being stranded on a ship would be a nightmare for a vampire.

[Ridureyu]

Hey, the new art style looks great now that I can see it on characters like Roy.

Or Bandana! Nice!

[Vaarsuvius-Mage]

Wow.. looks like the order is screwed. :smalleek:

[Frecus]

Just as I was reading that last page, a thunderclap roared overhead IRL.

Nice!

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

[Jaxzan Proditor]

First of all, this strip, to me anyways, shows the amazingness of the new art. I especially love how Bandana looks! I also notice how the High Priest of Hel says "usually", which indicates that what happens with Durkon is the norm...:smallbiggrin: Finally, I think that that lightning strike might cause a few problems for the Order. :smalltongue:

[Kariccia]

As for saying "nuts", much like the arguments that were brought up when (what has now been revelaed to be) the HPoH said "*****", it's not like Durkon hasn't used rough and ready language before.

While it is true Durkon has used language like that before, we're shown where the debated saying likely came from: the dwarf from panel 12, page 947. So there really isn't anything Durkon about it beyond it's a "Thor's something" saying.

[zimmerwald1915]

While it is true Durkon has used language like that before, we're shown where the debated saying likely came from: the dwarf from panel 12, page 947. So there really isn't anything Durkon about it beyond it's a "Thor's something" saying.
So? The point Porthos is making is that "Thor's nuts" isn't such a wildly out of character statement that hearing "Durkon" say it will cause Order members who don't already suspect "Durkon" of not being Durkon to start suspecting him. Whether Durkon ever said those precise words, or ever thought to, is entirely beside the point.

[wyrmhole]

So? The point Porthos is making is that "Thor's nuts" isn't such a wildly out of character statement that hearing "Durkon" say it will cause Order members who don't already suspect "Durkon" of not being Durkon to start suspecting him. Whether Durkon ever said those precise words, or ever thought to, is entirely beside the point.

Exactly. If we didn't know that Durkon wasn't Durkon, then we would have no reason to think that quote was out of character. So neither would Roy.

[Kariccia]

So?

Actually, I as about to add onto that. He did chew Julia out on flaunting her "boobs," or at least, say he was going to talk with her about that. He may very well avoid saying "nuts" for similar reasons. He's more proper about sexual aspects than others.

[wyrmhole]

Actually, I just found out right now (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=taint)... so, *yuck* I guess...

But still - anatomically, you could really discuss whether that word relates to the gastrointestinal function, or the more sexually relevant parts of the body?

It's both, which is why it's worse in a way. As my family doctor once said (really): "What's the taint? Well 't'aint the balls and 't'aint the butthole."

[Porthos]

So? The point Porthos is making is that "Thor's nuts" isn't such a wildly out of character statement that hearing "Durkon" say it will cause Order members who don't already suspect "Durkon" of not being Durkon to start suspecting him. Whether Durkon ever said those precise words, or ever thought to, is entirely beside the point.

One thing I could see is Rich hanging a lampshade on the situation by having Belkar voice suspicions that Durkon is acting out of character in the next strip, only for the rest of the gang to say something to the effect of, "C'mon on Belkar, Don't you remember all the times Durkon's said something like this before?" :smallwink:

[zimmerwald1915]

Actually, I as about to add onto that. He did chew Julia out on flaunting her "boobs." He may very well avoid saying "nuts" for similar reasons. He's more proper about sexual aspects than others.
Roy chided Julia to "put some clothes on, girl," only a few strips after he stopped making crude advances at Miko. At about the same time, he was making cracks about his time with Celia not being "entirely in a bed." Double standards are a thing, and telling women to cover up is not incompatible, under this kind of odious double standard, with allowing men to make sexually suggestive remarks.

[HandofShadows]

Roy looks really good. :smallcool: I think someone is getting suspicouse already though.

[kivzirrum]

Okay, any reservations I had are 100% gone. The new art style looks GREAT. I mean, damn. The comic has always looked great, in my worthless opinion (I've said it before--my technical understanding of the visual arts are not matched by my aesthetic appreciation for them), but this is a brand shiny new kind of great. I dig.

[Boogastreehouse]

*
Why do I get the feeling that "Uncanny Valley" is going to be the new "deus ex machina."

Every season it seems that a different term or phrase gets overused on the forum to the point of tedium, and for Spring of 2014 I suspect it will be this.

For the record, I like the new art style—I feel it balances out the weight of the figure a little better—and though it still surprises me whenever I first look at it, I suspect that I'll get used to it pretty quickly.

*

[Adaon Nightwind]

This evil energy spirit thing inside Durkon sickens me. Which, i presume, is just the effect it should have.

Great Comic. Bad feelings.

[Porthos]

I think someone is getting suspicouse already though.

Or, alternatively, he's annoyed that that ship just got hit with a lightning bolt. Which he wouldn't expect to happen with a person who supposedly worships a god that throws around said lightning bolts. :smallwink:

Perhaps his glare is at Durkon, but not for the exclamation. Instead he is glowering at the guy who you would think wouldn't be struck by a lightning bolt. Maybe Belkar is pondering the cosomological significances of a Thunder God showing his displeasure at the current situation.

Too bad Belkar doesn't know how this sort of thing usually works. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0201.html) :smalltongue:

[Themrys]

The double meaning is interesting.

Would Durkon say something that might sound like him accusing his god of being nuts?

Also, the real Durkon would have some interpretation for the lightning, but it seems the vampire will not ask about that, since he doesn't know in the first place that something like that might be expected of Durkon.

[Porthos]

The double meaning is interesting.

Would Durkon say something that might sound like him accusing his god of being nuts?

"Thor's Taint"?

Taint does have more than one connotation. There's the well known one where one implies that someone has been 'tainted' by something bad or unnatural. Then there's the.... other definition of it (Google if you dare :smalltongue:).

[Rorrik]

I'm pretty sure Durkon succeeded in deceiving the vampire guy. Yea, Roy might not catch on, but the more salient point is that Durkon's using a whole story let him give the vampire misinformation. I think he may have even used "Thor's Nuts" incorrectly. It seems like a saying used to say something like "that was brave!" along the lines of "balls the size of churchbells." "Thor's Nuts" is even better, but it is certainly not an appropriate exclamation for a bolt of lightning.

I'm afraid only another dwarf would catch it, but Belkar just got another piece of evidence.

[Burner28]

Interesting.

[Kariccia]

Roy chided Julia to "put some clothes on, girl," only a few strips after he stopped making crude advances at Miko. At about the same time, he was making cracks about his time with Celia not being "entirely in a bed." Double standards are a thing, and telling women to cover up is not incompatible, under this kind of odious double standard, with allowing men to make sexually suggestive remarks.

When has Durkon pulled a double standard as bad as or even like Roy's though?

[SavageWombat]

Everybody go back and read Porthos' posts again. Geez.

This hardly counts as a prediction, but I submit that Rich wrote this strip very carefully to set up whatever info is needed for when Durkon finally does outsmart the vampire spirit. So yes, this is (somehow) how it will happen.

[Porthos]

When has Durkon pulled a double standard as bad as or even like Roy's though?

It's not like Durkon hasn't talked about sexually suggestive topics before. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html)

[GregTD]

I think this tidbit gives us a clue for how Durkon can undermine Durkula's charade, assuming an external force doesn't intervene to help him out. Durkula asks for something, and Durkon technically obliges the wording of the request, but it's entirely the wrong thing, and Durkula slips up a few times and the others catch on.

I don't recall, have we ever actually heard Durkon say "Thor's Nuts" before?

[Aquillion]

I don't recall, have we ever actually heard Durkon say "Thor's Nuts" before?No. Durkon doesn't generally talk quite like that. It's not off enough that any of his friends are likely to pick up on it, but it's still off.

(In fact, part of me wants to interpret Belkar's flat stare in the last panel as him not quite buying it.)

[Porthos]

I don't recall, have we ever actually heard Durkon say "Thor's Nuts" before?

He's said plenty of things that are close enough. If this had been NotUndead!Durkon, I wouldn't have batted an eye.

[Themrys]

"Thor's Taint"?

Taint does have more than one connotation. There's the well known one where one implies that someone has been 'tainted' by something bad or unnatural. Then there's the.... other definition of it (Google if you dare :smalltongue:).

Actually, the non-anatomical meaning of "taint" was the only one I knew up to now. Now I now the anatomical one as well. Is there a third one?

But the double meaning is not just in the words, it's in the situation. Someone who doesn't respect Thor could come to the conclusion that "Thor must be nuts", while "Thor is tainted" is not a conclusion someone who is not a goddess or god and gets to interact directly with Thor could draw from anything. (And Durkon has shown no qualms about referring to the less appetizing body parts of Thor, so I guess, that's okay for him - after all, Thor can be assumed to have all those body parts, so it's not insulting.)


If at all, Roy will think it strange that Durkula doesn't want to stop the journey after it was actively hindered by Thor. Apart from Belkar, everyone wants Durkula to be Durkon, so they'll not look to closely at everything that would prove that Durkula is in fact just an evil vampire who uses Durkon's dead body.

[Shining Wrath]

This would mean that a body can't be zombified or walking-skeletonized if the original soul is unavailable.

Why would the original soul be unavailable? Resurrected, or raised with a body-fragment. Soul-jarred. Resurrected, then killed and made undead. I'm sure there are more.

On the other hand, if all undead have the original soul, why are there mindless undead?

Theory:

The soul is "in there", but there isn't sufficient remaining brain matter / chemical activity to form much of a thought. An awkward analogy might be a brain injury that leaves the victim profoundly retarded ... not sure if that happens in real life. If you've ever read Flowers for Algernon, every skeleton or zombie is dimly aware that they once were smarter, but know they are not functioning at that level now; and unlike the protagonist of Flowers, that fact fills them with inchoate rage.

[Emperordaniel]

Oh man, I'm loving the look of these new character designs. :smallbiggrin:

[Porthos]

Actually, the non-anatomical meaning of "taint" was the only one I knew up to now. Now I now the anatomical one as well. Is there a third one?

But the double meaning is not just in the words, it's in the situation. Someone who doesn't respect Thor could come to the conclusion that "Thor must be nuts", while "Thor is tainted" is not a conclusion someone who is not a goddess or god and gets to interact directly with Thor could draw from anything.

No, I was only referring to the anatomical one.

What I keep trying think about is: How would we all be acting if this was either Normal!Durkon or Vamped!But-Still-Durkon-in-Control!Durkon?

I suspect a lot of jokes about the double meaning. Along with a few comments wondering if Durkon was starting to lose faith in Thor. Which may or may not have led into a multipage back and forth. :smallwink:

As for how to interpet Thor's Taint? There was a small amount of discussion about which way to take it in the main discussion thread when the strip first went up. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?5766-OOTS-308-The-Discussion-Thread)

Funnily enough, no one claimed it was out if character for Durkon, near as I can tell. In fact, the phrases "Best. Swear. Evar." and "That DOES sound like a Dwarvish swear, doesn't it?..." came up.

Interesting what a little bit of context (and a whole lot of time :smalltongue:) will do. :smallbiggrin:

[Gwin]

Well, Im not sure, if I like the change of character models. Now with that new limbs that are not just black lines... Everybody except Belkar seems somehow lanky...
But maybe its just a bit of nostalgy :D

[WindStruck]

I have a funny theory... Durkon show's the spirit a memory that haunts him explaining why he's so afraid of trees. The spirit brushes it off as an attempt to expose him. He'll be wrong. Oh, so wrong... :smalltongue:

[Shining Wrath]

I briefly thought that Durkula caused this in some way, but then I realized that Durkula likely doesn't have any weather spells anymore, but more importantly, being stranded on a ship would be a nightmare for a vampire.

In the original Dracula, Vlad traveled to England via a ship. It was a nightmare, all right, but not for him. The ship eventually grounded with no one aboard alive. Search for Chapter 7 (http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/345/pg345.txt)

[elros]

I laughed at the first strip to use "Thor's nuts!", but now we find out it is part of a bigger plot point. Cannae wa't ta start usin tha phrase meself!

[Everyl]

I love the way following the forum adds a whole new level of enjoyment to reading each strip. With (nearly) every comic lately, some piece of convoluted (yet popular) forum speculation has been disproven.

I wonder what new wild theories this comic will breed, or how the people who thought that Durkon's vampirism was a special, unique case different from every other vampire in the setting will support their theories now. Time to start reading this thread from the top and find out!

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Thor's nuts.

Thor's crazy. Thor is crazy!

Did Durkon trick Yeerkon/Durk Mallaksen/Durkula/Hpoh/not-durkon/Dark on into saying an un-dwarflike thing?

It might be interpreted as hpoh saying that Thor is crazy.

[Fellow]

The negative energy spirit and Redcloak act remarkably similar. I have to wonder to what extend Redcloak actually has free will.

[Ted The Bug]

The noodle legs make Roy look way less sturdy than his seldom-bending stick legs. New art style definitely taking time to adjust to.

[Ellye]

I'm happy with the new art style already.


Oh dear, Belkar seems to know something is amiss.Belkar is certain, in his mind, that Vampire Durkon is not Durkon, since the beginning.

I'm hoping he lives long enough to be proven right in front of the Order. But I'm suspecting that his suspicious are what will get him killed.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Thank you, Yeerkon, for that exposition. The sooner the audience knows about it, the sooner it comes into play. Thank you to revealing yourself o the audience two strips ago, and declaring the struggling capive to be of no concern.

[Domino Quartz]

The negative energy spirit and Redcloak act remarkably similar. I have to wonder to what extend Redcloak actually has free will.

Zero, because he's a character in a webcomic. :smalltongue:

Anyway, why would this make you suspect Redcloak he has less free will than you otherwise would have thought? I also don't think you can' say that they act "remarkably similar" until we see a bit more of how the HPoH acts.

[Fellow]

Oh, and before I forget, Roy looks absolutely fabulous in the new style.

Edit:


Zero, because he's a character in a webcomic. :smalltongue:

Anyway, why would this make you suspect Redcloak he has less free will than you otherwise would have thought? I also don't think you can' say that they act "remarkably similar" until we see a bit more of how the HPoH acts.

Gripping the opposition, using spartan speak in a manner that talks down to them. I think I saw Redcloak do that as well.

As for the lack of free will, both Redcloak and the HPoH are close servants of evil deities. I figured that perhaps the dark one is influencing Redcloak more directly then I though

[Lexible]

I also like how Belkar looks no different to me from before, even though he's updated. :smallbiggrin:

Belkar's arms are beefier (thicker) than either Roy's or Durkula's.

[Porthos]

Zero, because he's a character in a webcomic. :smalltongue:

Anyway, why would this make you suspect Redcloak he has less free will than you otherwise would have thought?

Minor prequel book comment:

Certain events in SoD could be interpeted as Redcloak geting mind-controlled when he put on the Crimson Mantle. Whether or not he stays under mind control (even if it is limited) past those initial few shots is what some (admittely very few) people have wondered.

It's not a widely held theory. Mostly because Redcloak has shown the potential to set aside The Plan. But I've seen it rise from time to time.

[Lexible]

As for using it more often that Durkon, I believe he's only done a "Thor's XXXXXX" gag twice.

Wasn't there also one where he swore or cursed by Thor's Unsanitary Ear Canal?

[CaDzilla]

I like the Norse mythology reference of time being the fastest thing there is. Incidentally, this myth was when Utgard-Loki made Loki and Thor look like idiots.

[zimmerwald1915]

The noodle legs make Roy look way less sturdy than his seldom-bending stick legs. New art style definitely taking time to adjust to.
Roy's trying to keep his balance on a pitching, tossing airship. I'm sure his legs would be bent under the old style too.


Belkar's arms are beefier (thicker) than either Roy's or Durkula's.
Those would be the sleeves; if you compare the width of Belkar's finger lines to Roy's or Durkon's, Belkar's will be either the same or narrower. Belkar has always had baggier sleeves than Roy or Durkon, inasmuch as his were visible and theirs were not. In fact, Belkar's sleeves are a little bit tighter now than they were.

[Gnoman]

Thor's nuts.

Thor's crazy. Thor is crazy!

Did Durkon trick Yeerkon/Durk Mallaksen/Durkula/Hpoh/not-durkon/Dark on into saying an un-dwarflike thing?

It might be interpreted as hpoh saying that Thor is crazy.

I think that's exactly what Durkon's trying to do. He's probably steering the memories to give the High Priest of Hel an opportunity to see what the High Priest thinks is a useful bit of information, but is actually totally inappropriate to the situation (I don't think either expected lightning to hit the ship at that point, but the High Priest was simply trying to find something he could bring out without any delay), disguising it as an attempt to overwhelm the High Priest with data in an attempt to "convert" him to the side of the angels or introduce a noticeable delay into his thought processes. I suspect that we haven't seen "Thor's Nuts" before because it has a specific context or is obsolete (Imagine, for example, if a 40-something person in our society started throwing around colloquialisms such as "Jeepers" or "Bully", things that they might well remember a parent or grandparent using but are wholly out-of-date today) in Dwarven society, as many of our slang phrases and swears do, and the High Priest could be reasonably expected to bring it out without realizing this (as he "knows" that it is a valid intensifyer), giving a clue to anyone around that something is not as it seems. A single such example might not work, but loading up with enough out-of-date information of this sort could easily show enough of a pattern to reveal the situation.

[Lheticus]

WHAT a presentation! Talking, reparté reparté...oh, by the way, LIGHTNING JUST STRUCK THE MECHANE!

Every time I think you can't get more awesome, Giant--you get more awesome!

[Fellow]

I guess I remembered wrong, unless there's something of the sort in SoD. The closest that Redcloak has come to this in past that I can find is his encounter with Tsukiko in #830 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html). Third strip, second panel.

[ZerglingOne]

It's probably been mentioned, but belkar is clearly skeptical of Darkon's exclamation. Belkar's BS detector is on a completely different level from the rest of the order.

[t209]

So how many of you were thinking that many characters would be wearing shorts in the fan art? Now, Rich had jossed every fan arts.

[DolGrenn]

Loving the new strip, loving the new style!
Although the inconsistency in Durkon/HPoH's boots does bother me slightly...
ETA: Never mind, didn't see that the "mind knots" obscured some of Durkon's boots. Carry on!

[ORione]

Judging by what HPoH says in panel 4, 3 days have passed since they left Windy Canyon. That will be useful for speculating on Belkar's expiration date.

The art style looks fantastic, especially with Bandana and Roy. Like a lot of people, the hands bugged me initially, but I'm already used to them.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

I wonder if Durkula natural appearance is really like this, or something more monstrous.

[Pronounceable]

Charmingly simple drawing style being replaced by better drawing style still makes it less charming. It's not glaring this time because there are no closeups but those hands are definitely suffering from a tamer version of uncanny valley effect.

Otherwise everything is fine.

[Raphite1]

Gotta say, while I love the new art flourishes like the use of perspective and layered effects, when I click back two comics and see the non-noodley character models, it really feels like I'm finally seeing the actual OOTS comic again instead of some fan art.

[TinyMushroom]

can i just say i love how the art's looking more and more! i just can't get over all the little details all over the place aaah it's so awesome!

[Starwulf]

Haven't read the entire thread, so no idea if this has already been mentioned, but Belkar seems like he finds something off with Durkula after he uttered "Thor's Nuts!". I mean, I know Belkar has been particularly suspicious of Durkula from the start, but assuming it's been a while since the last strip(as in, in-universe time), you would think that would have been curbed a bit. I wonder exactly what Belkar noticed about how Durkula uttered that phrased that made him feel it was off.

[zimmerwald1915]

I mean, I know Belkar has been particularly suspicious of Durkula from the start, but assuming it's been a while since the last strip(as in, in-universe time), you would think that would have been curbed a bit.
Belkar holds grudges. His prank war with Vaarsuvius lasted for most of No Cure for the Paladin Blues and War and XPs, and he held on to his vendetta against Windstriker for 211 strips.

[wyrmhole]

Haven't read the entire thread, so no idea if this has already been mentioned, but Belkar seems like he finds something off with Durkula after he uttered "Thor's Nuts!". I mean, I know Belkar has been particularly suspicious of Durkula from the start, but assuming it's been a while since the last strip(as in, in-universe time), you would think that would have been curbed a bit. I wonder exactly what Belkar noticed about how Durkula uttered that phrased that made him feel it was off.

I personally see no reason to assume that Belkar's suspicion was on a downward trajectory over the last few days. I think that expression is just Belkar continuing to be unimpressed with Durkon's seemingly-Durkon-like-behavior, just like he was unimpressed by his Durkon-like behavior before.

But sure, it's possible he became more accepting in the off-panel time lapse.

[Clistenes]

You go, my boy Thor! I hope the OotS fugure soon that something isn't right with Durkula.

I don't think Thor will dare to do much more than this. We know that there are rules against direct divine intervention. But I think sending a message to every one of his clerics telling them the truth about about Durkon wouldn't break those rules.

[137beth]

There's a lot here!
This strip confirms the theory that the only influence the living person has on its vampire is a temporary one, explaining why there was no apparent struggle between Malack and the lizardfolk. It also confirms that all (or almost all) OOTS vampires work like this. Although, it doesn't rule out my theory that Hel made this particular vampire a special case (that "normal" OOTS vampires are possessed by a generic evil negative energy spirit, while Hel intervened (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) to insert her own creature in Durkon's body).

One one hand, this is good news for the Order: it means that anyone who knows enough about undead would understand the current situation. On the other hand, Belkar, Elan, Haley, and Roy all lack Knowledge (Religion) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15175785&postcount=48), and it looks like V doesn't have enough either, or V would have told the others. The good news is that they are going to the Northern continent, where the High Priest of Odin is, and hopefully he would know how OOTS vampires work (and be able to cast resurrection).

[warrl]

It's both, which is why it's worse in a way. As my family doctor once said (really): "What's the taint? Well 't'aint the balls and 't'aint the butthole."

The equivalent area on females is the fundament.

So "fundamental" really is getting right to the bottom of things. And no, this isn't a pun.

[ss49]

The equivalent area on females is the fundament.

So "fundamental" really is getting right to the bottom of things. And no, this isn't a pun.

A quick look at a dictionary will help others from believing this....

[Nightcanon]

I think this tidbit gives us a clue for how Durkon can undermine Durkula's charade, assuming an external force doesn't intervene to help him out. Durkula asks for something, and Durkon technically obliges the wording of the request, but it's entirely the wrong thing, and Durkula slips up a few times and the others catch on.

I thought this too... Durkula was looking for what Durkon says in extremis, and we were all saying what a great new expression Thor's nuts is.

[JSSheridan]

Belkar's arms are beefier (thicker) than either Roy's or Durkula's.

They aren't really; that's just because he has shorter arms and makes them look thicker.

[Nibelung]

Nice touch, Roy's boots are still on different sizes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0401.html).

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

So, I'd just like to agree that Roy looks awesome now. I wish I had that costume.

[Bulldog Psion]

My observations:

The new artwork looks superb, IMO. The objections to it seem like a real "tempest in a teapot" -- especially since it looks so excellent. Bravo, Mr. Burlew. :smallbiggrin:

I think Belkar is just continuing his hostility to Durk Malackssen. He hasn't "noticed" anything new, he just hated the vampire to begin with and that hasn't changed. It has nothing to do with what Durk said -- he just loathes him and isn't going to lighten up. Ever.

"Thor's nuts" doesn't seem out of line with "Thor's taint" and "leafy wankers," among others. Durkon may not be constantly foul-mouthed, but he's not totally prim and mincing, either.

[rbetieh]

why does negative energy durkon not have fangs? Physical trait only?

[GregTD]

Where this idea that Durkon is prim and proper comes from, I'm not entierly sure.

Well, look back at his lectures to Roy's younger sister, about the clothes she was wearing, and about treating her body with respect.

[Nenec]

I'm between those who think Belkar could have smelled something, by Durkula's weird exclamation. I could be wrong, but Belkar's been very untrusting of him, hating too of course, ever since he's been vampirized, so he might be now extra careful to stop everything out of place to prove he was right. Though Belkar is Belkar, one can never know with him...

As for the art style, I must confess that not only I didn't notice it in the previous strip, but not even in this until I've seen the forums. <.< Not a fan of the change from stick to noodle, but I accept the choice. The new font I had noticed, but thought it was only a particular one used for this particular situation or something.

Damn I feel so bad for Durkon :(

[Toy Killer]

Personally, I think the durkula's fall with the Order will be when he doesn't panic over a tree. He doesn't know to ask about it, if he has asked a more general question, he can skim past it and it would be a clear indication that the durkon of yesterday is gone.

Plus, it will be fulfilling for him to die to a spontaneous sharp tree branch.

[GregTD]

Roy chided Julia to "put some clothes on, girl," only a few strips after he stopped making crude advances at Miko. At about the same time, he was making cracks about his time with Celia not being "entirely in a bed." Double standards are a thing, and telling women to cover up is not incompatible, under this kind of odious double standard, with allowing men to make sexually suggestive remarks.

Reality check time: rules are different for adults (which Roy is), than for children (which Julia is). And if you think that big sisters don't try to tamp down the sexuality of their little brothers, you never had a big sister.

[GregTD]

And I think that we'll find out just how much Roy has noticed when the first feeding time for Durkon arrives. I think Belkar will warn against this plan. The real question is how much V has noticed, because if the Order has to stop a vampire with his fangs already fastened in Roy's neck, there's only one person who might be able to do that quickly.

What, you think Durcula is going to screw up everything by trying to kill Roy when Roy's voluntarily feeding him?

Why?

[OwlbearUltimate]

I post in the forum about once every two years. Seeing the new arc getting started, I just want to say that I find the new art style beautiful.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm surprised no one has posted on this yet.

The Mechane is damaged, and will need to stop for repairs. What will the Order do while the crew is rebuilding the engine?

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have met today's special friend the start of this book's sidequest.

[ORione]

Well, look back at his lectures to Roy's younger sister, about the clothes she was wearing, and about treating her body with respect.

Julia's a teenager, and Durkon's best friend's little sister.

[WindStruck]

It does seem like Durkon is using "Thor" too much in his expressions though, doesn't he?

"Right as Thor's rain."

"Thor's nuts!"

Not that this would be conclusive proof to the party, but I'm sure by Belkar's expression he's thinking that as well.

[Loreweaver15]

Roy chided Julia to "put some clothes on, girl," only a few strips after he stopped making crude advances at Miko. At about the same time, he was making cracks about his time with Celia not being "entirely in a bed." Double standards are a thing, and telling women to cover up is not incompatible, under this kind of odious double standard, with allowing men to make sexually suggestive remarks.

I always kind of thought that Roy's sexism was an intentional character flaw; it's presented often enough as a Bad Thing (his awful, awkward interactions with Miko, his karmic beatdown after calling his sister a skank for the way she dressed, etc) that it seemed so to me, anyways.

[Knight.Anon]

What a clever way for Durkon to mess with Durkula and tip off Durkons friends (and Belkar) that things are not the way they seem.

The Thor's Nuts exclamation was almost like a secret code that only Belkar could grasp the significance of. Its like it gave Belkar a +15 against Durkula's bluff check.

It looks like Thor is in on the game too.

[BrotherMirtillo]

Belated, but welcome back, Giant! I've got your calendar on my wall, and it's very cool to see the new proportions on various critters. On the other hand, I'm okay with the shapes of people's bodies being old school. Thickening up a stick figure's (e.g.) hands might be a little odd. For now, the colors and clothes are snazzy enough. (It might take me a dozen or so strips to get used to the height of Roy's waist. Maybe if I pretend he's wearing a kilt, it'll help. Nothing wrong with a warrior donning a kilt.)

I have the feeling in my bones that not-Durkon is going to be in the driver's seat for quite a while, but I hope he keeps bragging as often as he does now. I do not object to evil characters boasting. It's a fine chance either for an impressive speech or for the good guy getting an opening to counterattack. (Or if you're Xykon vs. busted V, both.) Either way, pass the popcorn.

And P.S. -- bared veins and extracted organs make me nauseous. In case I didn't say so earlier, strip #946 gave me the gut-gagging creeps. Also, I wonder if Durkon can hear anything in there? Maybe he hears bits of the outer events, just enough to suggest the worst, but it's largely drowned out by the thumping, relentless barrage sound of not-blood coursing through his body.

[pacovf]

I am surprised by the number of people that believe that the Order should suspect the "Thor's nuts" exclamation. They don't believe that this is the old Durkon, they believe it is some sort of weird evil version of Durkon; heck, Roy has demonstrated that he doesn't trust him fully, and that he wants to stake him as soon as they have access to resurrection.
They don't expect the same personality as before, so some different turns of phrase will not arise suspicions (except from Belkar, who has already shown his willingless to destroy the vampire). Even swearing AGAINST Thor wouldn't be particularly worrying for them, since Vampire Durkon has said that he now gets his spells from dark energy, not from his "former" god. It would take something a couple of orders of magnitude higher than a curse to really make them think about the possibility that a spirit is impersonating their friend.

[Kish]

Julia's a teenager, and Durkon's best friend's little sister.
I might add that she also recently approached Durkon with, "Look! Boobs! Don't you want to pay attention to the girl with the boobs?" Not...exactly related to the question of whether Durkon's above swearing by referencing quasi-sexual body parts. (Which he is not. "Nuts" is not significantly dirtier than "taint." Nor is it differently blasphemous because some hypothetical person might misunderstand it to be a statement about Thor's sanity rather than a reference to Thor's testicles, jeez, talk about a reach.)

[stsasser]

Cunning Durkon. Well played. :smallcool:

[Everyl]

If this strip is setting up a way for Durkon to undermine HPoH's charade, then I would guess that he's doing it by giving related, but misleading, information first. For example, if the question HPoH asked was something like, "How would you react in this situation?", the most direct, helpful thing for Durkon to do would probably have been to show memories of how the Order first met Miko (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0199.html). In that comic (and the next few after it), we see that Durkon is highly superstitious about the weather, especially thunderstorms, and tends to consider them to be signs from Thor. If the storm inconveniences him, he'd see it as a warning to change course because they were doing something wrong.

However, Durkon instead answered the question with the beginning of a long-winded memory-tale about how his mother raised him to respect Thor and believe that pretty much everything that happens in the sky is a direct result of Thor's will. This story would also lead to the same answer - that Durkon would consider the storm a sign from Thor to be treated with respect and examined for deeper meaning. However, HPoH didn't have the patience to listen to the entire story, so he instead grabbed an oath from an incidental character in the memory and treated that as "good enough."

We won't know for certain if HPoH slips in his ruse until we see his actions in the next few comics. If he fails to play up Thor's influence and treat the storm as a divine sign, then he might raise suspicions. Swearing by Thor's Anatomy isn't really out of character, as others have demonstrated with numerous links already.

[deuxhero]

Happens at the speed of thought? So 30 feet per 6 seconds? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#speedOfThought)

[ref]

Wait. Is he swearing by Thor's nuts, as in, the nuts that belong to Thor, or is he claiming that Thor is nuts?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Wait. Is he swearing by Thor's nuts, as in, the nuts that belong to Thor, or is he claiming that Thor is nuts?

The former.

[nonamearisto]

I have a feeling that Durkon knew that Durkula would be doing this and that he fed him the wrong information. When they get to Dwarven lands, he'll be exposed for sure.

[lunar2]

durkula messed up. durkon has never taken thor's name in vain like that. also, it's finally confirmed that this is the standard way dwarven vampires are handled, at least. durkula is not unique by any means. he just happens to be the only high level dwarven cleric that got vamped. the others must have been either below 5 HD, or got hit with the energy drain, and so got spawned and lost their class levels, instead. stick-verse does seem to be a relatively low level world, after all, so it's not entirely unbelievable.

[Everyl]

durkula messed up. durkon has never taken thor's name in vain like that.

Except, you know, that he has done so before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html).

[Edric O]

So... basically, at this point, Belkar is Durkon's only hope.

The little psychopath may end up saving the universe after all. Go figure.

[Particle_Man]

Basically, "Your soul is happy in its appointed afterlife while your body wanders around" is seriously unlikely for ANY form of D&D undead.

This makes me wonder if there is something similar going one with pre-lich Xykon being trapped inside post-lich Xykon (mind you, both are Chaotic Evil).

:xykon: Wouldn't you like to know?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

This makes me wonder if there is something similar going one with pre-lich Xykon being trapped inside post-lich Xykon (mind you, both are Chaotic Evil).

:xykon: Wouldn't you like to know?

I doubt it. Pre-lich and lich Xykon are almost exactly identical, even down to what beverages they enjoy. The only difference is that the lich has boosts to his mental stats and that he holds even more disdain for living beings. Unlike, the High Priest of Hel, who has slipped up a few times, Xykon resembles who he was before he died perfectly.

[Lvl45DM!]

I doubt it. Pre-lich and lich Xykon are almost exactly identical, even down to what beverages they enjoy. The only difference is that the lich has boosts to his mental stats and that he holds even more disdain for living beings. Unlike, the High Priest of Hel, who has slipped up a few times, Xykon resembles who he was before he died perfectly.

Also Liches are usually self made for mages to continue their magical research. Indicates to me that they dont lose any of their autonomy, otherwise why would they do it?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I post in the forum about once every two years. Seeing the new arc getting started, I just want to say that I find the new art style beautiful.

OWLBEAR!

I remember you!

How're things going?

[Canisius]

Yeah, count me as so far unconvinced about the new art. I'm sure I'll get used to it. Since the comic has evolved from "joke of the day", the storyline has gotten much more convoluted and intense, so I can see how the new art would be a nod to that. I seem to recall Rich has formal visual arts training - is that right? Makes me wonder what OOTS would look like if he went to a full "anime/cartoon/these are not stick figures" approach.

[Mith]

I don't think that happened in this comic...

I felt like it did when you go from "two words..." to the ship being hit with lightening. I admit that it wasn't the best assumption, but that was my first read through. I didn't even realize that he likely would have only said "Thor's Beard' instead of "Thor's Nuts" until looking at the forums.

[Kranden]

Belkar Knows something is up. Thors nuts indeed.

IMO Belkar can be the only one who will save durkon.

[wyrmhole]

Yeah, count me as so far unconvinced about the new art. I'm sure I'll get used to it. Since the comic has evolved from "joke of the day", the storyline has gotten much more convoluted and intense, so I can see how the new art would be a nod to that. I seem to recall Rich has formal visual arts training - is that right? Makes me wonder what OOTS would look like if he went to a full "anime/cartoon/these are not stick figures" approach.

Oots has always had some of the best composition of any webcomic I've seen, even when the character art was at its most crude. I don't doubt he has formal training. It's either that or he's a talented self-study.

But that also means that the choice to do stick figures was a deliberate stylistic choice, rather than due to lack of aptitude (ala xkcd). So it's rather interesting to see him start to deviate from that, rather than just making the stick art better.

[Kolhammer]

Thor sends his regards it seems.

[The Smallest]

I laughed at the first strip to use "Thor's nuts!", but now we find out it is part of a bigger plot point. Cannae wa't ta start usin tha phrase meself!

Well, it's not confirmed that it is part of a bigger plot point. That is simply the way some are choosing to interpret it.

[LuisDantas]

This last speech balloon is a sure-fire way to warn Roy (and Belkar, if he even needed warning) that Durkon is not home anymore. I expect some reaction from Roy next strip.

Durkon seems to be aiming to weaken his shadow. Odds are that he will succeed eventually; in his own way, the guy is as noble as O-Chul or even Hinjo.

[Lexible]

They aren't really; that's just because he has shorter arms and makes them look thicker.

Well, it might be a perspective thing, but no: they are objectively wider; last frame:

Belkar's arms: colored portion is 5 pixels wide; width including dark margin is 8 pixels wide.
Durkon's arms: colored portion is 3.5 pixels wide (the .5 from anti-aliasing); width including dark margin is 6.5 pixels wide (anti-aliasing, blah blah blah).
Roy's arms: the colored portion is 3 pixels wide; width including dark margin is 6 to 6.5 pixels wide, depending on how you wanna read the anti-aliasing.

Belkar's arms are wider. Possibly a perspective thing. Keeping eyes peeled.

[lunar2]

Except, you know, that he has done so before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html).

can't blame me for missing one other swear in nearly 1000 pages (and probably over 1000 strips). still, thro's nuts seems a bit too vulgar for durkon, you know? thor's taint sounds more like euphemism for a common swear, rather than a swear in and of itself, like thor's nuts.

edit: and then there's the fact that belkar seems to think something's fishy.

[UristMcRandom]

So Durkon is trying to make the HPoH slip up..

My vote: Hilgya* appears and Durkon provides the memory of their quest in the dark, but leaves out the whole "bein' a dwarf is aboot doin' yer duty" part, leading to the HPoH interracting with her in a suspicious manner.

*This spelling seems... wrong.

[Porthos]

can't blame me for missing one other swear in nearly 1000 pages (and probably over 1000 strips). still, thro's nuts seems a bit too vulgar for durkon, you know? thor's taint sounds more like euphemism for a common swear, rather than a swear in and of itself, like thor's nuts.

He's said "Thor's Part of Body" at least five times throughout the comic. He's said words like "bitch" and "wanker" as well.

[Trillium]

Good Hel, if I was doubtful about new art style before, now I am completely sold! It is fantastic!

Also, I hate Durkula now. Really hate.

[Terrador]

Well, it might be a perspective thing, but no: they are objectively wider; last frame:

Belkar's arms: colored portion is 5 pixels wide; width including dark margin is 8 pixels wide.
Durkon's arms: colored portion is 3.5 pixels wide (the .5 from anti-aliasing); width including dark margin is 6.5 pixels wide (anti-aliasing, blah blah blah).
Roy's arms: the colored portion is 3 pixels wide; width including dark margin is 6 to 6.5 pixels wide, depending on how you wanna read the anti-aliasing.

Belkar's arms are wider. Possibly a perspective thing. Keeping eyes peeled.

I suspect that it has more to do with Belkar potentially/probably having baggier sleeves than Roy and Durkon, seeing as he's rocking the cape and all. Wouldn't surprise me.

In other news, I'm really looking forward to Belkar in combat in this new art style.

[Porthos]

Having a bit too much time on my hands, and recognizing that in a 1000+ page comic, things can be forgotten, I decided to do a quick archive trawl:

Thor's Whatever
:durkon: Thor's Beard! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html)
:durkon: Thor's Beard! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html)
:durkon: Odin's good eye! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0111.html) (bonus action :smallwink:)
:durkon: Thor's bloated liver... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0263.html)
:durkon: Thor's Taint! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html)
:durkon: Thor's Duodenum! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html)
:durkon: Thor's nostrils... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)
:durkon: Thor's bicuspid! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html)
:durkon: Och, by Thor's ankle.... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0556.html)
:durkon: What in Thor's unsanitary ear canal... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html)
:durkon: Thor's sternum... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0740.html)
:durkon: Thor's aching bunions! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html)

'Naughty' Words
:durkon: Who the hell is this guy? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0091.html)
:durkon: mphm mrphmmmph mmf mrf mrrrph mrph! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html) (Whatever it was, Roy decided not to hold it against Durkon due to the stressful situation :smallwink:)
*repeats the line 'that hot piece of ass' originally said by Belkar* (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0244.html)
:durkon: ... leafy wankers have broken many homes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html)
:durkon: Wha tha hell was tha racket? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html)
:durkon: So sit yer ass down... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html)
:durkon: Ye date-bearing bitch! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html)


Is 'Nuts' REALLY stronger than "hell", "ass", "wanker" and "bitch"? I really don't think so, personally.

NOTES: There was a 'bastards' in Origins, as well. And if I missed anything in the above compilation? Well, I think it's pretty representative. :smalltongue:

[ManuelSacha]

Having a bit too much time on my hands, and recognizing that in a 1000+ page comic, things can be forgotten, I decided to do a quick archive trawl

That's what I thought.
Yelling "Thor's nuts" is not entirely out of character from Durkon.
I don't see Roy picking up on this.
However, Belkar is already onto him, so this might be just one more reason for him to keep tabs on Durkula.

[Dr. Simon]

Belkar's sleeves are wider. Possibly a perspective thing. Keeping eyes peeled.

Fixed that for you.

[Dracon1us]

Thor sends his regards it seems.


:smallamused:

[Vladier]

Is 'Nuts' REALLY stronger than "hell", "ass", "wanker" and "bitch"? I really don't think so, personally.


Even though I've devoted much of my time to study of English language, it's still a great mystery for me why the invocation of Hell is considered a strong swear by English-speakers. My only guess is that it's connected to the fact that my country had a history of government-enforced atheism, or rather, government-enforced nigh-religious worship of the head of the state and political ideology of Communism. I'm not sure, though, if invoking the demonic forces was ever a big deal even in the times of The Russian Empire.

On the strip-related front, I'm somewhat saddened by the revelation that apparently Durkon's case of vampirism is usual. It makes Malack more cartoonish as a villain by making him into a direct force of concentrated magical Pure Evil, instead of a person who was going to commit daily genocide out of devotion to his deity but with some personal and familial interests on the side. Unless the "eternal dormancy" also means that the Negative spirit eventually forgets about the very existence of its former mortal soul and starts considering itself the original, there isn't very much interesting about OotS vampires.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Having a bit too much time on my hands, and recognizing that in a 1000+ page comic, things can be forgotten, I decided to do a quick archive trawl:

Thor's Whatever
:durkon: Thor's Beard! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html)
:durkon: Thor's Beard! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html)
:durkon: Odin's good eye! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0111.html) (bonus action :smallwink:)
:durkon: Thor's bloated liver... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0263.html)
:durkon: Thor's Taint! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html)
:durkon: Thor's Duodenum! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html)
:durkon: Thor's nostrils... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)
:durkon: Thor's bicuspid! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html)
:durkon: Och, by Thor's ankle.... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0556.html)
:durkon: What in Thor's unsanitary ear canal... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html)
:durkon: Thor's sternum... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0740.html)
:durkon: Thor's aching bunions! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html)

'Naughty' Words
:durkon: Who the hell is this guy? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0091.html)
:durkon: mphm mrphmmmph mmf mrf mrrrph mrph! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html) (Whatever it was, Roy decided not to hold it against Durkon due to the stressful situation :smallwink:)
*repeats the line 'that hot piece of ass' originally said by Belkar* (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0244.html)
:durkon: ... leafy wankers have broken many homes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html)
:durkon: Wha tha hell was tha racket? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html)
:durkon: So sit yer ass down... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html)
:durkon: Ye date-bearing bitch! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html)


Is 'Nuts' REALLY stronger than "hell", "ass", "wanker" and "bitch"? I really don't think so, personally.

NOTES: There was a 'bastards' in Origins, as well. And if I missed anything in the above compilation? Well, I think it's pretty representative. :smalltongue:
Just for completion's sake, I wish to add that he also says "ass" again in Origins.

[Emperordaniel]

On the strip-related front, I'm somewhat saddened by the revelation that apparently Durkon's case of vampirism is usual. It makes Malack more cartoonish as a villain by making him into a direct force of concentrated magical Pure Evil, instead of a person who was going to commit daily genocide out of devotion to his deity but with some personal and familial interests on the side. Unless the "eternal dormancy" also means that the Negative spirit eventually forgets about the very existence of its former mortal soul and starts considering itself the original, there isn't very much interesting about OotS vampires.

I'd guess that "eternal dormancy" does mean that (or something similar) in at least some cases - the memories absorbed from the host's soul may well become the only memories the vampire-spirit has, assuming that the spirit was created at the moment of vampirization. After a century or two of having those memories in his head like they were his to begin with - and not having even "seen" his host spirit for decades, if not centuries - the vampire-spirit may forget about the existence of the original soul and come to believe that the memories he possesses are, in fact, his own memories from when he was alive. :smallwink:

[oppyu]

Even though I've devoted much of my time to study of English language, it's still a great mystery for me why the invocation of Hell is considered a strong swear by English-speakers. My only guess is that it's connected to the fact that my country had a history of government-enforced atheism, or rather, government-enforced nigh-religious worship of the head of the state and political ideology of Communism. I'm not sure, though, if invoking the demonic forces was ever a big deal even in the times of The Russian Empire.
Once you're done with that, you can get to explaining what's so evil about female dogs, female genitalia, human buttocks and illegitimate children. Swear words are just things that people really, really hated. Women, unwed sinners, faecal matter and the fires below.

[TurtlesAWD]

I've gotta be honest, Thor doesn't seem like anywhere near an attentive enough god to plan divine intervention/retribution like this.

He doesn't seem much like the type to take a strong interest in the day to day affairs of his clergy, but I would also say that smiting a servant of Hel would be in character.

[Keltest]

I've gotta be honest, Thor doesn't seem like anywhere near an attentive enough god to plan divine intervention/retribution like this.

He doesn't seem much like the type to take a strong interest in the day to day affairs of his clergy, but I would also say that smiting a servant of Hel would be in character.

I don't think thor is that subtle. If he wanted to smite Durkon, he could have.. um... smited? smitten? smoted? Durkon. Nah, if Thor wanted to hit that ship deliberately, it wasn't to go after Durkon specifically.

[AgitoSasaki]

The new art style just keeps getting better! All the detail in the last few panels, particularly on the main party, makes everything just pop out and feel more alive.

As for the current situation, "Thor's nuts!" seems appropriate.

[Scifne]

Art: Love the water, storm and rain. Beautiful.

Plot:
---Bad Durkula! I hope Durkon is setting the interloper Durkula up somehow.
---Belkar: Doubt on!!!!

[banjo1985]

Well, at least Durkula was after something important. :smalltongue:

Really liking the extra level of detail on the new art, just the trident hands I'm struggling with a little.

[ManuelSacha]

Once you're done with that, you can get to explaining what's so evil about female dogs, female genitalia, human buttocks and illegitimate children. Swear words are just things that people really, really hated. Women, unwed sinners, faecal matter and the fires below.

Well, that's unfair.
He wasn't commenting about the "existance" of swear words, but on the perceived relative gravity of one to the other.

I know someone who only knows ONE culture can't fully understand this, but different things have different levels of acceptability in different cultures/countries.

I'm Italian, from Rome. Here, the worst swear words that you can find (and probably the most common) are of the "profane" kind. It's worth noting that the Papal State governed this city for centuries.
In France, the dominating caste was not the Church, but the nobility. Henceforth, taking the name of "crap" was more shocking for those in power, considered worse, and used more.

[foobar1969]

Personally, I think the durkula's fall with the Order will be when he doesn't panic over a tree.

Plus, it will be fulfilling for him to die to a spontaneous sharp tree branch.

Die? Not exactly. Hmm... what is the correct term for when an undead loses all of its HP?

But your tree hypothesis is excellent. Especially regarding swearing; note that the only times Durkon said "wanker" or "bitch", he was insulting trees. Being nonchalant about them would be a major giveaway. And the Mechane might need new timbers very soon...

Sadly, I think someone in the Order will tip their hand unknowingly, giving Durkula a reason to ask the right question first.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Once you're done with that, you can get to explaining what's so evil about female dogs, female genitalia, human buttocks and illegitimate children. Swear words are just things that people really, really hated. Women, unwed sinners, faecal matter and the fires below.
Erm, well. There's a lot of vulgar language that really doesn't fit that model (the swear in the comic being one such example, actually!), so I don't think that hypothesis passes a common sense scan. There's a number of reasons that vulgarities may have become so.

Maybe they're considered sacred things. Maybe they're considered to be intimate things (and thus unfit for speaking of in public--"breast" and "leg" fell under this category for a time). Maybe they're terms of degradation. Maybe they're terms with a nasty history. Maybe they're icky things. I'm sure there's other reasons that escape my immediate knowledge.

Let's not go hastily drawing implications of massive social import, here. You can't say for sure why any particular word is considered a "bad word" or a "naughty word" or an "offensive word" or a "profanity". And the biggest problem is that those terms are all lumped together in one category by most people.

[Bulldog Psion]

A lot of swearwords seem to be related to reproduction and digestion -- in short, the things that remind us that we're animals. Humans have frequently aspired to be something higher than a beast of the fields, and the sex/digestion swearwords seem designed to be obscene and offensive precisely because they are a reminder of how many bestial traits humankind has. What did Nietzsche say -- " A man's stomach is the reason he does not easily take himself for a God." All our sex and waste product swearwords seem to me, at least, to be "obscene" because they're a harsh reminder of the animal in humanity.