More Feats!

[Mountain]

I've seen all kinds of builds showing how many feats can be put on a character, but they're always 20th level builds. Anybody can make a 20th level character with a ton of feats.

I want to know how many feats a first level character can have, and still be playable.

So far I have:
Human, for 1 bonus feat (PHB)
Necropolitan, to get 2 bonus feats from severe taint with no penalty from the taint (LM and HoH)
Worshiping an Elder Evil grants a free Vile feat at 1st. (EE)
Any class with a bonus feat at first level (Fighter, Psychic Warrior, etc.)

Magical locations are out.
Dragon Magazine is out.
Dragon Compendium (yes, I know it's mostly the same stuff) is allowed.
Any 3.5 book is allowed.
No Pathfinder material.

[ahenobarbi]

Flaws from Arcana Unearthed give you extra feats. If you care only about number of feats (not their quality) go Elf, not human for extra weapon proficiency feats.

[Mountain]

I do actually care about the quality of the feats, but all suggestions are welcome.

I forgot about flaws. That should have been an obvious one.

[Fouredged Sword]

Necropolitan will kill a first level character, and exceeds the WBL suggestions with it's cost. I would consider it not valid for first level and TO on a second level character.

I think you can get a pact with a demon for another feat.

[OldTrees1]

Taint gives 4 bonus feats (Taint has 2 flavors: Corruption and Depravity)

Note: Elder Evils only grant a bonus feat selected from the vile feats in the same book.

[ahenobarbi]

I do actually care about the quality of the feats, but all suggestions are welcome.\

You can pay two feats (Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty) and get third for free. Those are not very good feats so you're probably not interested (if it was for higher level you could Chaos Shuffle them for something better).

I don't remember anything else usable at level 1.

[Red Fel]

As I recall, Azurin and Silverbrow also get a bonus feat at level 1. Vasharan get a bonus Vile feat, if I recall.

[Telonius]

A Cloistered Cleric can get three Domain Feats from trading in their Domains.

[NoACWarrior]

Theres also UA warrior (general class) which gets free feats but isn't restricted to fighter feats.

[Kennisiou]

If dark chaos shuffle is allowed and you don't have a DM who will throw a book at you or impose practical rules on the game's economy, and you can find a spellcaster capable of casting heroism and the shuffle and willing to do it for market price, then...

Well, there are lots of ways to break the economy at level one. A simple one would be to be a factotum or marshal with craft (poisonmaking) in an evil-aligned city (marshal for cha-to-int skills if all you care about is making this check to economy break, factotum for if you want more class skills to do more economy breaking stuff). Instead of buying any starting gear with your starting gold, use it to buy a psionic tattoo of minor creation. Gather grasses find buyers for a potent poison that will disappear from its target's system an hour after ingestion -- long after it has killed/maimed them. Psionic craft the poison and then sell it at market price. If you can find a buyer for every dosage you can make up to a thousand dosages with one minor creation. Even one dose of most poisons sells for more than it costs to get the psionic tattoo made. You have a repeatable source of income off of just this. Save up to eventually get access to faster means of economy breaking, like scrolls of wall of salt (the salt made by a scroll sells for more than a scroll costs). From there you have infinite cash with which to pay a caster to cast heroism on you, then dark chaos shuffle it into a permanent feat. All of this is RAW legal, but also not something a sane DM would let you do.

So from a pure RAW standpoint? A level 1 character can have as many feats as it is possible for them to qualify for by breaking the economy and buying them.

[Vaz]

Wand of Wall of Salt generates 420x7 = 2940 cubic inches, which is the equivalent (http://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-to-weight) to ~131 pounds, or 655gp per charge.

7*4*750 = 21K for 50 charges, = 420gp/charge, around 155% profit per charge.

With Mercantile Background, 1/month, you can purchase such a wand at 75% cost, and have 300gp extra during Character Creation. At 315gp for a single charge wand (with the discount), any character with WBL that's greater than a monk's can be purchased at first level. (375gp for a Sorcerer, say)

Congratulations, you now have Infinite Money cheat from 1st level.

You may now purchase Embrace the Dark Chaos, and Shun the Dark Chaos. You now have near enough every feat in the game.

[Kennisiou]

Wand of Wall of Salt generates 420x7 = 2940 cubic inches, which is the equivalent (http://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-to-weight) to ~131 pounds, or 655gp per charge.

7*4*750 = 21K for 50 charges, = 420gp/charge, around 155% profit per charge.

With Mercantile Background, 1/month, you can purchase such a wand at 75% cost, and have 300gp extra during Character Creation. At 315gp for a single charge wand (with the discount), any character with WBL that's greater than a monk's can be purchased at first level. (375gp for a Sorcerer, say)

Congratulations, you now have Infinite Money cheat from 1st level.

You may now purchase Embrace the Dark Chaos, and Shun the Dark Chaos. You now have near enough every feat in the game.

That is so much more elegant a solution than my "sell poison to evil people who may just kill you for it instead" solution to breaking level 1 wbl.

[Vaz]

Heh, took me too long to write it up, but yep, there are tons and tons of ways for infinite money, it's at least one that makes sense. Creating a "salt mine" and a business in that way, and the fact that it's going to take some time (seriously, how many things are normal people going to need 10ft poles for?) means you're not going to be flooding a market.

[Mountain]

I've seen tons of funny ways to break the economy, but that's a story for another thread.

As for necropolitan being unusable at first level, I specifically ok-ed it with the DM (this is an actual upcoming campaign, and he's okay with a moderate amount of optimization).

I'm not sure I agree with taint giving 4 feats by RAW, but I'll look again. You may be right. It's hard to tell exactly what the rules are trying to say sometimes.

You can't have [Vile] and [Exalted] feats on the same character, so VoP is out. (I don't like it anyway. I want an item familiar.)

[Vaz]

Yes, it gives you 4 additional feats. 1 for each level above the most basic (I forgot its name) of both mental and physical taint; depravity and corruption. As Undead, you have no penalties from taint (it's assuming, I guess that a) Undead is usually unattainable without huge LA, or late game, such as with a Lich, requiring a huge LA and as such missing out on feats etc; and b) the typical game doesn't involve the use of Taint as a player mechanic, so it's a DM only tool, and c) it's an evil's mechanic, and most games, let alone those involving those are Good PC's versus Bad, well, BBEG's. Howver that sounds advance thought for WotC, so I'm chalking it up to "oops" as they didn't consider Necropolitan).

[Mountain]

I just read through the entire chapter, and yes; corruption and depravity are tracked separately in every way. That's 4 feats. Even playing a 2-3 HD undead from the monster manual could be worth it (in the right campaign, of course) for 4 free feats. It's not even restricted like the one for worshipping an elder evil.

[OldTrees1]

Warning about Taint:
Undead and Fiends have Taint scores based on their Charisma. It is unclear if their taint can increase beyond that.

[Mountain]

Warning about Taint:
Undead and Fiends have Taint scores based on their Charisma. It is unclear if their taint can increase beyond that.

As an undead, I would start with a taint score of 9. (Half my CHA of 16, +1 for being undead)
That by itself would get me to moderate taint (2 bonus feats).

I don't see anywhere that undead can't gain taint. They just ignore the negative effects. If my character's backstory involves being in an :smallyuk: EVIL :smallyuk: hotel for a week or two, it would bring me up to severe taint (4 bonus feats).

The chapter specifically states that undead and creatures with the [Evil] subtype can use taint to qualify for feats and prestige classes, but never says that they can't gain any more than they start with.

[OldTrees1]

As an undead, I would start with a taint score of 9. (Half my CHA of 16, +1 for being undead)
That by itself would get me to moderate taint (2 bonus feats).

I don't see anywhere that undead can't gain taint. They just ignore the negative effects. If my character's backstory involves being in an :smallyuk: EVIL :smallyuk: hotel for a week or two, it would bring me up to severe taint (4 bonus feats).

The chapter specifically states that undead and creatures with the [Evil] subtype can use taint to qualify for feats and prestige classes, but never says that they can't gain any more than they start with.

By having an equation for taint score, it makes it unclear if Undead and Fiends can gain more taint.
However with your Cha, it doesn't seem like much of an issue.

[Magikeeper]

DCS:

I direct people talking about DCS to check out any of the threads arguing about the meaning of the word "replaces", or rather its lack of a defined meaning, in the DCS combo*. I still say ruling the definition allows heroism/familiar/etc tricks kills what is otherwise a fairly reasonable (IMO) bit of optimization. "Kills" as in "almost no DM is going to allow buying as many feats as you want".

*Yes, I am too lazy to link to my own arguments. :P

-------

Heh, I have to admit it is odd to see someone using Taint/Depravity, but not dragon magazine. I usually see the reverse. :P

Ways to get bonus feats:

Race: Strongheart Halfling also grants a pick-anything bonus feat. Elf is better if using DCS.

Templates: Some other templates give bonus feats, but it doesn't look like your PC has room for them. (Lycanthrope et al.)

Class: What kind of PC are you? You can easily get 1 bonus feat (or more) per level with the right classes. Many classes have ACFs that grant specific feats as well.

Soul: Selling the PC's soul via a Pact Insidious can net you two bonus feats. Has rather dire consequences (Raising becomes quite an ordeal). Technically Insidious is not a sure thing like the other pact (If I remember this correctly) but this PC is clearly evil. His only hope would be his horrible elder evil master snatching his... yeah, he should strive to never re-die.

Misc: You can get a bonus feat by participating in the crafting of five Talisman Of Transference (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a)s.

Items: Many magic items grant feats.

[Vertharrad]

Misc: You can get a bonus feat by participating in the crafting of five Talisman Of Transference (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a)s.
You might want to read the item...you transfer xp only for the purpose of making magic items. It is very specific even in the description of the items effect.

[Magikeeper]

You might want to read the item...you transfer xp only for the purpose of making magic items. It is very specific even in the description of the items effect.

I don't know what that has to do with the free feat you get for crafting five of them.


Special: A character who meets the prerequisites automatically gains Ritual Transference as a bonus feat after constructing five talismans of transference.

[Mountain]

I had forgotten about selling your soul for feats. Do intelligent undead have souls?

The character is going to be a factotum at 1st level, take able learner, and dip all over the place until he qualifies for chameleon.

I'm aiming for a high tier 3. The purpose of all the feats is to grab several of those things that I always look at, but never have room for.

[OldTrees1]

I had forgotten about selling your soul for feats. Do intelligent undead have souls?

Necropolitians, Liches, Vampires, Ghosts, Ghouls, and various other undead are merely bodies for the soul of the character that was turned into them. (Unlike what is happening to Durkon in the comic)

However not all intelligent undead house the soul that used to own their component parts. (Awakened Skeletons for example)

[Vertharrad]

I don't know what that has to do with the free feat you get for crafting five of them.

Odd...for the price of 5 items you get this feat. I was wrong. The feat is still specific. I'm not sure but the OP might be wanting more open-ended options?

[Chronos]

Necropolitians, Liches, Vampires, Ghosts, Ghouls, and various other undead are merely bodies for the soul of the character that was turned into them. (Unlike what is happening to Durkon in the comic)
The rules for corporeal undead aren't actually clear on this point, and the interpretation the Giant is using is completely consistent with the rules. Whether this is also the interpretation your DM uses is up to him.

And a monk gets two feats at first level, compared to the fighter's one, but they may or may not be useful to you.

[OldTrees1]

The rules for corporeal undead aren't actually clear on this point, and the interpretation the Giant is using is completely consistent with the rules. Whether this is also the interpretation your DM uses is up to him. Agreed. My statement was based off the fluff from the texts and it isn't the only interpretation(as evidenced by the dual souls the giant imagines).

As always the DM is the primary source for fluff.

[thethird]

An elf gets more feats than humans.