[3.5/PF] Sp, how do you keep the dragon from flying?

[Arbane]

Over in another thread, a new-ish player is complaining that rather than getting a climactic battle where he could use his magic sword on the BBEG dragon, it just flew overhead and roflstomped him.

Naturally, most of the advice was of the helpful 'lern 2 play noob' variety.

So, I'm asking: In D&D 3.5 or Pathfinder, how can players STOP a big flyer from replaying the Firebombing of Dresden on their heads? Is there actually a non-magical way to do so?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Tanglefoot bags work for non-magical but IIRC there is a size limit. There's a spell, in PHB2 I think. Immediate Action, glues targets feet to the ground. Does wonders to keep things grounded. Lasts for only a round though. Slow will make anything with less than Good have to choose between staying aloft of any other action. Solid Fog around the target. With Average or less, they won't get off the ground and even with Good or Perfect takes time to get out of reach. The Downdraft Spell (Spc, Level 3 Clr/Wiz/Sorc) can force most things to the ground (though doesn't prevent further flight). Wingbind stops winged flight. Just off the top of my head.

Is it obvious I've researched ways my Raptoran can be grounded? Cause I have.

[iceman10058]

it is a lot easier to get a spell or item that gives you flight and chase after it of fight it in the air.

[Bakkan]

Lassos and nets are options, but it's been a while since I've looked at them so I'm not sure how useful they are.

Yet another spell that works is Earthbind.

[torrasque666]

Depending on DM rulings, another possibility is called shots on the wings. A big enough Javelin through the wings should ground almost anything.

[Zweisteine]

Tie it to something really, really heavy with some big chains. A ton of solid adamantine would be sure do the trick. Adamantine chains would help too.

If you can use a magc item, Sovereigm Glue is the obvious solution. Glue dragon to boulder: problem solved. Of course an adamantine boulder is ideal. :)

[Kraken]

Uh....a bow?

[Optimator]

I'd avoid the spells specifically designed to down fliers. Dragons get mad saves and SR. Things like solid fog, acod fog, and freezing fog work better.

[tri]

Not really, at least out of the methods I know. You can try tanglefoot bags, but it only works on Large creatures or smaller. The same thing kinda applies to nets, which will only work on stuff up to one size category larger than you. The thing is, by the time you're fighting a dragon/flyer that big, it should be safe to assume that you'll have magical means to hinder the dragon, even more so if the PCs knew they were gonna fight it.

Oh, and for the people talking about chains: That doesn't seem to be viable in combat, which I thought was what OP was asking about.

[Arbane]

The thing is, by the time you're fighting a dragon/flyer that big, it should be safe to assume that you'll have magical means to hinder the dragon, even more so if the PCs knew they were gonna fight it.

Such as? (PF ones, especially, as that's the game I'm currently in, and it seems to be short on anti-flying tricks.)


Oh, and for the people talking about chains: That doesn't seem to be viable in combat, which I thought was what OP was asking about.

Pretty much, yeah. A plan that requires chaining the dragon down before the fight is probably going to be a non-starter.

[tri]

Such as? (PF ones, especially, as that's the game I'm currently in, and it seems to be short on anti-flying tricks.)

I only play 3.x, so I don't think I can offer you PF-specific advice, sorry. :/
The thing is, aside from scrolls of spells such as shivering touch and earthbind, there isn't really any magic items that prevent flying that I know of. The most common way to deal with flying monsters for melees has always been flight-granting potions or other magic items.
Anyway, is your party lacking casters of some sort? Most of this problem with flying can be solved with spells.

[Vaz]

Fight it inside an enclosed area? Unless it's something like a Mercury Dragon or one with Burrow (Styx etc), you should be fairly safe from its ability to fly. Of course, the trick is getting it there.

[ace rooster]

Physically manipulating it onto the ground like forcing an apache gunship onto the ground. Not going to happen. You need to give them a compelling reason to land.

Attack their hoard, or lure it into a confined space. Dragons are highly intelligent, but often arrogant and overconfident (Less likely if the PCs have killed a dragon before). They may throw away their flight advantage to chase a non dragon enemy, not believing it puts them at the disadvantage.

Some dragons have access to cleric spells, particularly spell immunity, so earthbind, wingbind, and other such magics are really not reliable even if you can boost the save DCs to the point where a dragon would probably fail, and beat their SR.