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MeklorIlavator
2007-02-05, 05:53 PM
How necessary are Arcanists/Psionics? I mean, can a campaign and party not specifically designed to be without that influence survive long? At what level would things start to fall apart? Low levels? Mid Levels? High Levels? Input please.

Ikkitosen
2007-02-05, 06:07 PM
It's entirely possible to survive without arcanists and psionicists, but the DM may have to inspect the CRs of some monsters - they're based around a party having some offensive magical support, and things like ghosts and other exotic beasties may be more difficult to deal with without such support.

MeklorIlavator
2007-02-05, 06:10 PM
True, I guess it is possible, but what about minimal divine thrown in(the cleric is a healbot, in all sense of the word)

Shazzbaa
2007-02-05, 06:43 PM
For most of our campaign, we've gone without an arcane caster (or a rogue) of any sort, but we do have a cleric.

But I have no idea if or how much our DM has been adjusting CRs and the like; you'd have to ask Indoril about that.

Deathcow
2007-02-05, 06:48 PM
The group I run has two clerics, a monk, and a rogue, and so far has fared well without me having to adjust CRs. One of the clerics does have the Spell domain with Divine Spontaneity and uses Anyspell to great effect, though, which makes a difference.

Ethdred
2007-02-05, 06:52 PM
Any sensible DM should be able to adjust his/her campaign to fit with the characters in the party. I'm running a campaign with no casters at all (at first level) and haven't had any problems with power balance

MeklorIlavator
2007-02-05, 06:57 PM
Well, this is a 1st level campaign, with 2 well built characters, and two cobbled together characters(the cleric and rogue who also happen to be new at DnD), so can a party without any casting but heal spells do well? Also, Shazzbaa, can I just PM Indoril? I do not want to annoy anyone.

daggaz
2007-02-05, 07:00 PM
Yeah well at first level its not really much of an issue, since the best a wizard can do anyways is thro one, *maybe* two spells and then they usually use a light crossbrow while melee does all the real work. Even a trained batman can only do so much with 2 slots of sleep per day. As to when it gets troublesome, that is really up to the campaign, the skills and innovation of the players, and the DM.

Shazzbaa
2007-02-05, 07:00 PM
Also, Shazzbaa, can I just PM Indoril? I do not want to annoy anyone.

Don't see why not. :3 He doesn't bite.... usually. :smalltongue:

Ruik
2007-02-05, 08:28 PM
We had a 4-5 (depending on who could make it) member party in our (first ever) RL game that finished a couple of years ago, and we made it to level 9 without a primary caster, divine or arcane. We basically relied on the paladin (when he could make it) and my ranger. Admitedly, we did have a magic item that could cast limited cure spells in a x per day fashion and scaled a bit as we got higher in level... but it was never really used during combat, and really was only useful when we were recovering.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-05, 11:01 PM
Without walls, line of sight blocking, teleportation etc. a situation can turn into a TPK much faster ... you can't control the flow of battle.

Smart players can deal with anything of course, especially with a rogue in the party (UMD) good items can make up for a lot.

Shadow
2007-02-06, 03:10 AM
Well, this is a 1st level campaign, with 2 well built characters, and two cobbled together characters(the cleric and rogue who also happen to be new at DnD), so can a party without any casting but heal spells do well? Also, Shazzbaa, can I just PM Indoril? I do not want to annoy anyone.

Well, first of all, your cleric(s) should not have prayed for heal spells assuming that he/she/it/they can spontaneously convert them to heal spells. So hypothetically, your cleric(s) could be effective casters in his/her/it's/thier own right. Any cleric that can convert, and yet still memorizes, heal spells is wasting spell slots.
Note a Monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1871247&postcount=133) that I am currently playing on these boards. He has only one single 0th level cure minor wounds spell currently avaiable to cast. That is not to say at all that he can't heal. He is in fact the only healer in the party, and quite effective.

Marius
2007-02-06, 05:39 AM
The group I'm DMing right now doesn't have any arcanist and they do just fine (they are level 5) but I don't know if they are going to be able to keep up.

Kyrsis
2007-02-06, 05:59 AM
I ran a group to level 10 with only a bard as they're caster and they did pretty well. I didn't have to adjust anything. About level 10 the rogue died and they gained a warmage though, which helped. I always wonder how far they could have gone with just the bard as they're caster, they pulled off some really amazing things. Though they still don't have a cleric, they spend a lot of money on resorative type scrolls/potions.
Oh forgot to mention psionics - I've played and DM'd for about 9 years now and I've seen 3 psionic characters. The times with it was helpful, all the rest of the time we didn't miss anything. Not saying psionics are useless by any means, just that it doesn't hinder a group that doesn't have one.

MeklorIlavator
2007-02-06, 03:08 PM
Well, first of all, your cleric(s) should not have prayed for heal spells assuming that he/she/it/they can spontaneously convert them to heal spells. So hypothetically, your cleric(s) could be effective casters in his/her/it's/thier own right. Any cleric that can convert, and yet still memorizes, heal spells is wasting spell slots.
Note a Monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1871247&postcount=133) that I am currently playing on these boards. He has only one single 0th level cure minor wounds spell currently avaiable to cast. That is not to say at all that he can't heal. He is in fact the only healer in the party, and quite effective.

The cleric didn't prepare any spells, but the dm ruled that he could use the slots for heal spells. Yes, I know a full caster that doesn't prepare spells is an idiot, but it is the DM brother, and the DM is unwilling to find fault with him(too much). The cleric is much more trouble than he is worth, however. He did buy equipment(other than weapons/armor) or do skill points or do feats until we reminded him(actually, in the middle of combat he said"wait, I forgot to get equipment"). So he isn't really a cleric. More of a fighter without bonus feats that can cast healling spells a couple times per day. That does look like a cool character though.

Draz74
2007-02-06, 03:36 PM
Note a Monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1871247&postcount=133) that I am currently playing on these boards.

I've been wishing I could make a Cleric with a 2-level dip in Monk on a non-human without incurring XP penalties ... I take it your DM just houserules away multiclass penalties? (Or uses a homebrew version of Halflings ... or something.)

Person_Man
2007-02-06, 05:04 PM
I've found that the most fun gaming experiences are in groups where all the niches are covered, and no PC infringes upon the niche of another PC.

Having said that, I've also seen parties without a Skill Monkey, or healer, or arcane toolbox. I've even seen a party of all melee types. It makes things more difficult for them, and much more expensive (especially if they don't have a healer), but it doesn't prevent fun D&D from occuring.