[PF] How common is it for GMs to disallow Quicken Spell for Sorcerers?

[Aasimar]

I think Sorcerers are already gimped enough with their limited spell knowledge and being a level late to each level of spells.

But my GM insists that spontaneous casting and spontaneous metamagic more than make up for it, and is simply unwilling to entertain the notion that Sorcerers being able to quicken will be anything other than gamebreaking.

Is this different for different levels of optimization? Or is one of us simply wrong for all iterations of this question?

[Spore]

Is this different for different levels of optimization? Or is one of us simply wrong for all iterations of this question?

No but quicken spells put full casters another notch ahead from everyone else. Does your party have other full casters? I can see the reason behind this but if he allows metamagic for clerics and wizards, this is unacceptable. Ask him if he allows to precast (before combat) (possibly extended) group buffs like bless, prayer, shield, circle of protection from evil etc. Allowing this is basically freeing up actions in combat.

If he doesn't allow quicken, tell him you need to rework your spells and talents and become a precasting supporter.

[Ansem]

DM is being a **** if he didn't mention this beforehand (and let the players agree on it, one way or the other).
Spontaneous metamagic on the fly is 'thé' upside of playing a Sorcerer, pretty much defeats the entire purpose of the class.
I would take care with this DM from what I can see, it's the kind of DM who will pull off more of this kind of bull.

[Raven777]

Your DM is misguided. Sorcerers have limited spells known and are one spell level behind Wizards already. What they get in staying power, they lose in versatility. Thus, spontaneous metamagic becomes their saving grace. Bending magic every which way on a whim is what they're all about. At the level a Sorcerer starts being able to rely on them (8th level for Quickened cantrips, 10th for Quickened 1st), Quickened spells are nothing out of the power curve.

It seems to me that your DM doesn't want to deal with the unexpected, which is the entire point of magic and the entire point of players.

[Aasimar]

I've actually just joined, taking over a level 13 wizard.

It just surprised me that this was a rule and I think it's unfair, I might want to play sorcerer sometime in the future.

It's perfectly ok for my wizard or the NPC cleric to quicken spells.

I get the idea that this is why the player who I took over from picked wizard over sorcerer though. At high levels, this just makes Sorcerers a bad bad choice.

[Raven777]

At high levels, this just makes Sorcerers a bad bad choice.

Indeed. If the other casters are allowed to Quicken, and taking it away from Sorcerers is being justified by thinking Sorcerers being spontaneous makes them somehow better, then your GM is entirely misguided.

I mean, I'd even posit that not even Paragon Surge or Shadow magic shenanigans compensate for the action economy loss this represents.

[Eldest]

I think Sorcerers are already gimped enough with their limited spell knowledge and being a level late to each level of spells.

But my GM insists that spontaneous casting and spontaneous metamagic more than make up for it, and is simply unwilling to entertain the notion that Sorcerers being able to quicken will be anything other than gamebreaking.

Is this different for different levels of optimization? Or is one of us simply wrong for all iterations of this question?

Ok, by the rules, sorcerers aren't able to quicken. Any metamagic increases the casting time of a spontaniously cast spell to a full round action, and quick then reduces that to, surprise, a standard action. There are ways to get around it, and it's stupid, but there you go. Or that would be the case if this was 3.5 and not PF.

[BWR]

In Pathfinder spontaneous casters can quicken.
Chiming in to agree with all the other posters: the DM is being unfair.

[Eldest]

In Pathfinder spontaneous casters can quicken.
Chiming in to agree with all the other posters: the DM is being unfair.

Whoops, pathfinder. Ignore the above.

[atemu1234]

Very rare, because spontaneous casters cannot use Quicken Spell. No DM judgement needed.

[Deophaun]

Or that would be the case if this was 3.5 and not PF.
Even in 3.5 Sorcerers can Quicken. They just need to give up their familiar to do it.

[Aasimar]

Very rare, because spontaneous casters cannot use Quicken Spell. No DM judgement needed.

I beg to differ.

Here's the FAQ, if you're interested.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9ofk

[Eldest]

Even in 3.5 Sorcerers can Quicken. They just need to give up their familiar to do it.

I am aware there are ways around the restriction, yes, I just ignored them for simplicity's sake.

[Kraken]

I've seen quickened banned altogether, but never for some classes and not others. Your DM is being silly.

[137beth]

I could totally understand banning quicken for sorcerers...
if you also banned it for every other class in the game.
I could also understand banning quicken metamagic rods but allowing the feat to be used normally.
Banning it for just one class, though? Seems like a really bad idea, unless you reworked a considerable portion of the system first.

[Ansem]

Even in 3.5 Sorcerers can Quicken. They just need to give up their familiar to do it.

Or get Rapid Metamagic feat. ( FOR 3.5!!!!!!!!!)
Prerequisite
Spellcraft 12 ranks, ability to spontaneously cast spells,
Benefit
When you apply a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell, the spell takes only its normal casting time.
Normal
Spontaneous casters applying metamagic must either take a full-round action (if the spell normally requires a standard action or less) or add a full-round action to the casting time (if the spell takes 1 full round or longer to cast).
Does wonders for my Kobold Dragonborn Sorcerer.

[TuggyNE]

I'd say there's a reason PF changed Quicken to work for spontaneous casters, and it's because it should work consistently for all casters. Banning it for Sorcs is just silly, and really doesn't address any relevant problem.

[facelessminion]

Banning quicken spell, period, seems like a reasonable enough thing to do... but banning it for just the sorcerer is pretty dumb.

[ILetGoOfTheRope]

In order for a socerer/spontaneous caster to use a metamagic feat it increases the casting time from a standard action to one full round (full round becomes 2 full rounds) unless they have the rapid metamagic feat while quicken will reduce it swift the act of useing a mettamagic feat will increase it to a full round action casting time reguarless so there is no real benefit to quicken (this is how I read it) so in my games and everyone I play with agree its fair that spontaneous casters need rapid metamagic and quicken to gain the benefits, not to mention rapid metamagic it worth it imo anyway if your a spontaneous caster

[TheMonocleRogue]

The DM is clearly afraid of quickening spells which isn't broken at all. It gives casters the ability to sacrifice high level spell slots for more flexibility in combat and in situations where they need to act fast. Quicken spell is also the only metamagic feat a spontaneous caster can use without increasing casting time.

This however does not make it unfair. A sorcerer is no different from any other spellcasting class choosing this feat.

[Nibbens]

Your DM is misguided. Sorcerers have limited spells known and are one spell level behind Wizards already. What they get in staying power, they lose in versatility. Thus, spontaneous metamagic becomes their saving grace. Bending magic every which way on a whim is what they're all about. At the level a Sorcerer starts being able to rely on them (8th level for Quickened cantrips, 10th for Quickened 1st), Quickened spells are nothing out of the power curve.

It seems to me that your DM doesn't want to deal with the unexpected, which is the entire point of magic and the entire point of players.

Agreed.

[Ssalarn]

In order for a socerer/spontaneous caster to use a metamagic feat it increases the casting time from a standard action to one full round (full round becomes 2 full rounds) unless they have the rapid metamagic feat while quicken will reduce it swift the act of useing a mettamagic feat will increase it to a full round action casting time reguarless so there is no real benefit to quicken (this is how I read it) so in my games and everyone I play with agree its fair that spontaneous casters need rapid metamagic and quicken to gain the benefits, not to mention rapid metamagic it worth it imo anyway if your a spontaneous caster

There's actually a FAQ out there (quoted earlier in this thread no less!), where Paizo specifically states that in Pathfinder, sorcerers can use Quicken.

"Quicken Spell: Can you use Quicken Spell on a spell with a casting time of "1 round" (such as enlarge person)? Can you use it on a spell with a casting time of "1 full round" (such as a spontaneous caster using a metamagic feat on a spell)?
Yes and yes. Neither type has a longer casting time than the "longer than 1 full-round action" limitation of Quicken Spell, therefore both can be quickened.
This means that a sorcerer could cast an empowered quickened magic missile as a swift action. Likewise, as multiple metamagic feats don't push the casting time longer than 1 full-round action, a sorcerer could cast an empowered silent stilled quickened magic missile as a swift action." (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9ofk)

There is absolutely nothing about the Sorcerer that makes him better than the other full casters, and certainly not enough that he should be denied a capability he's specifically intended to be able to access while the other casters keep it.