Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM

[Mopeds42]

Hello, my character in a game I am playing has just died, and I need to create a new one. The only problem is, the DM has the pickiest (and in my opinion dumbest) character creation rules. They are

No magic/psionics
Furthermore, I havn't asked but I am sure that Tome of Magic and Incarnum will also not be allowed as they are also "magic"
No "eastern" classes (including monk)
No multi-classing
The ranger is allowed, but you don't get spells, but other classes don't get this treatment.
Alternate class features, flaws, and Tome of Battle aren't explicitly not allowed, but only because no one asked. I of course will ask but I do not expect any of these options to be allowed, so treat these as not allowed (and if they end up being allowed then I am set anyway). Other than all those things, everything is allowed (any source, though he sometimes bans things on a whim).

So lets recap what is allowed:
Fighter
Rogue
Scout
Knight
Swashbuckler
Barbarian
Ranger

As for races he allows they are:
Human
Gnome
Dwarf
Elf
Changling
Drow (with no level adjustment because the DM basically has a Drow fetish)

My last character was a Scout, but he randomly nerfed skirmish a ton arbitrarily so now you pretty much have to do the equivalent of charging your foe to use the bonus damage (and with the scouts lovely defenses, you can see why I died). Point is, I don't want to play a scout.

I am at a loss, so I am asking you all, what the hell do I play with all these restrictions? I am looking for any and every idea optimized or just silly and inane I don't care, i just want to find a way to have some fun, though note that if anything is remotely powerful he may nerf it (but I am not going to let that possibility get in the way of making a new character). Also, no, finding a new group/Dm isn't an option for me.

[LentilNinja]

Option 1. Tell him to stop ruining the game.
Option 2. Argue that Warlock and Dragonfire Adept don't specifically use "magic" and rather invocations (abilities that "act" like spells).
Option 3. Go into Barbarian and pick a ton of PrCs to stack Strength buffs (Bear Warrior, Frenzied Berserker, etc)
Option 4. Pick Fighter and take feats to stack Power Attack buffs & bonuses (Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute, Brutal Strike, etc)

Thats all I can give off the top of my head.

[NoACWarrior]

What about UA expert - its pretty interesting in that you get feats (unrestricted) every few levels like fighter.

Also whats his stance on multiclassing penalties? I bet he enforces them.

Regarding the available options - you could play a charger, battle field control artist, regular archer, or regular sneak attack rouge. At higher levels an iterative attack specialist would open up.

What about your PrCs options?

And lastly, and most importantly, out of the above, what kind of role did you want to play (there are quite a few more roles, but without PrCs they may not be fulfillable)?

[Windstorm]

you play the "have a talk and explain why the situation he's creating is unfun" game.

DMs should not be in the business of arbitrary restrictions without very good reason. Class balance isn't even a good excuse, because it is up to the players involved to make sure that they are balanced against eachother. this is one of the most common problems now with everyone approaching it from "the system must be balanced" as opposed to "the system might be unbalaced but I can moderate myself" the former is laregly the result of people being too used to video games, which are by nature a closed system and there is no DM, just a deterministic set of rules that cannot be changed except by balance patches to a wide audience. a DM provides one thing to the tabletop game that a videogame will never have: a two-way dialogue about what rules are fun, what rules are fair, why those rules exist, and what can be changed to promote the most fun gaming experience for the party as a whole. the DM is not a game designer who needs to balance everything for a large audience they will never interact with, they only need to balance the players against eachother's power levels, and the only tool required to do that most times is good communication, not changing the rules.

edit: well, that turned into a rant. my apologies. :smalleek:

[Mopeds42]

OP here, I should clarify. He does not allow multiclassing of any sort, Prcs included. He says "maybe i'l allow it when you guys are higher level" but are already level 5 and we progress so slowly. Gah.

I had mananged to convince him to let me Dm for a few months, but my time is up. The rest of the party doesn't like his DMing much either, but I think I chafe under it the most because everyone else optimizes less than me (except another guy but he is far more easygoing than I am). I cannot leave the group/force him to not DM, sadly, due to the group's situation.

[LentilNinja]

the DM is not a game designer who needs to balance everything for a large audience they will never interact with, they only need to balance the players against eachother's power levels, and the only tool required to do that most times is good communication, not changing the rules.

Truer words hath never been spoken. :smallsmile:

[Magikeeper]

Also, what do the other PCs consist of?

Edit: Wait, what is this about shifting DMing and time being up? What exactly is the set-up in your group and how did things go when you DM'd?

[LentilNinja]

He does not allow multiclassing of any sort, Prcs included.

Then my Option 4 should suffice, as you can go pure Fighter and get lots of feats to stack Power Attack. I'd recommend Human for the job, since it gets a bonus feat to add in, but if he's allowing Drow at 0 LA then I'd recommend that more (Spell Resistance is pretty good).
Make sure to take a two-handed weapon for the job. I'd recommend Flail if he's only allowing basic stuff, since it has expanded crit range and a few niches. Alternatively, the Urgrosh is a martial weapon for Dwarves and if readied will allow double damage on a charge (something you'll be doing if you get Shock Trooper).

[equinoxmaster]

i have a dm who wont allow me to be true neutral or choose boccob as a deity for my character

[NoACWarrior]

One last question before I think I can recommend a build for you - What books / feats are allowed?

There are a bunch of feats mixed in with the spell casting / psionic books which can greatly enhance your characters.

If expanded psionics is allowed I'd personally go with something like control knight with standstill, your issue will be reach though, and you will be feat starved without multiclassing into fighter.
If you have the extra feats to make a standstill lockdown work and can also go with Heroes of Horror take willing deformity and deformity tall to rectify your situation.

If you don't get those two books I'd with straight fighter with a jackbquick type of KD build - using the knock-down divinity feat which is listed as a general feat in the SRD. Just remember you can't knockdown a character getting up since their state when provoking the AoO is still prone. Heck I'd still go for jackbquick if expanded psionics was allowed, slotting in standstill to stop your opponents from crawling away from you.

[mabriss lethe]

It seems like an open, honest, and constructive dialog is what this situation very dearly needs.

[Zweisteine]

Are there any particular reasons for this? It's sounds like a case of "Doesn't Understand the Game."

How does your party get healing?

You do not ban magic in D&D, if only because it's a freaking FANTASY GAME. Magic is what makes it so fun.
If he says it's because it's too powerful, point out that that doesn't necessarily detract from fun, and that optimization isn't something that is automatic (present the second choice first. If he then accepts and complains that your character is too powerful, or if he says you'll optimize no matter what, or anything like that, THEN you bring up the first argument).

I recommend making something extremely game-breaking, like an ubercharger, if your DM banned magic because "it's too powerful."

Actually, your best bet is to talk with the other players, and confront the DM together. He has two options, then. One is to give in and run the game as it was meant to be run. Two is to hold firm, and not change. He may issue an ultimatum like "play how I say, or don't play at all." If he does that, you have a clear option: Quit and form your own group. And don't let him in right away. IF you let him in at all, and he wants to be a caster, you can tell him not to. If he complains, give him the exact same reason he gave you. Then, let him play a caster anyway.

How did you DMing go? If it went well, I find it hard to believe that your time "ran out." You make it sound like the DM controls your entire access to the game. Even if he's the one with all the books, you can get your own, and the SRD has more than he's letting you have. If it's his house you're using, and no other player has room, find a public space you can use.

You can do something about this, certainly. If you can't, find a new DM.

[Mopeds42]

To hell with it, I am just going to rant about my group because I haven't been able to rant to anyone about it and it is driving me crazy. We are a group of high school seniors, all friends for several years. Some members have played together for years, and I am the newest member of the group, joining about a year ago, though I was friends with many in the group beforehand and am dating another member. I like everyone in the group (including the troublesome DM) as a person, but the same cannot be said in regards to D&D, The DM in particular (though don't get my started on the guy who only plays fighter and then gets petulant when pretty much everything else is more powerful)

As a DM he is a complete control freak, is very unreasonable, and has all sorts of opinions on how the game should work. His homebrew setting and the campaign we play in is frustrating as hell, because Drow are fetishized to the point where it irritates me, he said it was "low-magic" which meant "you guys cant have magic, but magic items are everywhere and your main enemy is a necromancer with an army of magical undead and an insane god with an army of magical servants". He railroads liek crazy because he designs adventures with only one possible solution in mind. Thus, if we don't play exactly how he would play, then everything gets shut down.

He also nerfs things arbitrarily, especially when a fight doesn't go his way. In one fight he removed uncanny dodge from our scouts because we weren't getting sneak attacked liked planned and then said tumbling through combat provokes AOOs (so that skill is worthless now) and then, after my character dodging all the AOOs with mobility, he said that you don't get mobility AC while tumbling through an enemy. Later, he required skirmish to be used only when we move towards the target and with melee attacks because "skirmish damage comes from momentum"

No one likes his DMing, but no one wants to tell him, because he would get really offended. No one wants to offend him because as seniors in highschool, with only a few months left of seeing eachother (we are all scattering quite far after high school) we don't want to lose a player in the long-standing group, and more importantly, a good friend. We convinced him for awhile to let me DM, which was great and everyone told me I was far preferable to him, but now he is insisting we get back to his game and it's either tell him we don't like his DMing, or just go with it, and everyone save me wants to do the latter, but I don't want to lose my group because I have no one else to play with. If this seems like petty drama, you are right, it totally is. Right now we can only play once a week, but once school is over I am going to start a new game for the summer on a different day, which will alleviate some issues (though we will still have to play his game on regular playing days). I honestly have high hopes for finding a better group for actual playing in college (I have tried online groups but the disconnect just doesn't do it for me).

[Mopeds42]

OP with more clarifications, because it is easier to do it this way than reply to everyone individually. Great input so far, thank you all. For as to why I can't, or at least perceive I can't, leave/rally the group behind me (as they do like my DMing more) is in my rant above. Basically, no one else wants to offend him and there isn't a big opportunity for me to leave and still be able to play D&D.

We have no healing, so we live on potions and resting a lot. Every feat from every book is allowed, so long as it doesn't require, use, or give access to one of his banned systems. I do believe the issue stems from him not being able to design things that even challenge our non-optimizing group, so he just bans things with the justification "it's not realistic" or "it's not the sort of thing I want in my setting".

My current plan is just stop holding myself back on optimization (an uber charger I think is what I am leaning towards) and then when he nerfs it I will just get myself killed and make something else. Dieing is hard to do becuase he puts us in **** situations that we can't survive (no magic and everything gets changed if it makes his encounters too easy AKA beatable) but then he fudges rolls so we stay alive, but I have managed it once by roleplaying my changling in a way designed to irritate him (I know this is not healthy for the group, but jesus).

Anyway, keep the character suggestions coming, I really appreciate them.

[Gavinfoxx]

Leave the group and start playing on myth-weavers, rpgcrossing, and thetangledweb instead.

[Mopeds42]

Leave the group and start playing on myth-weavers, rpgcrossing, and thetangledweb instead.

Again, the group is full of friends, including a close friend and my girlfriend, I can't just leave. I tried a few online games on the side, but pretty much all of them, despite being fun (in my opinion) all petered out after a few sessions. I am sure I will try another again, but so far I have had no luck there.

[NoACWarrior]

OP with more clarifications, because it is easier to do it this way than reply to everyone individually. Great input so far, thank you all. For as to why I can't, or at least perceive I can't, leave/rally the group behind me (as they do like my DMing more) is in my rant above. Basically, no one else wants to offend him and there isn't a big opportunity for me to leave and still be able to play D&D.

We have no healing, so we live on potions and resting a lot. Every feat from every book is allowed, so long as it doesn't require, use, or give access to one of his banned systems. I do believe the issue stems from him not being able to design things that even challenge our non-optimizing group, so he just bans things with the justification "it's not realistic" or "it's not the sort of thing I want in my setting".

My current plan is just stop holding myself back on optimization (an uber charger I think is what I am leaning towards) and then when he nerfs it I will just get myself killed and make something else. Dieing is hard to do becuase he puts us in **** situations that we can't survive (no magic and everything gets changed if it makes his encounters too easy AKA beatable) but then he fudges rolls so we stay alive, but I have managed it once by roleplaying my changling in a way designed to irritate him (I know this is not healthy for the group, but jesus).

Anyway, keep the character suggestions coming, I really appreciate them.

While Chargers are ok for lower level campaigns with magic, they are harder to mitigate with in low / no magic campaigns with really hard hitting monsters or floods of mooks.
The hard hitting monsters will just tear away at your health like mad leaving you dead in 2-3 encounters, and the 40 odd mooks will take away your ability to do your maximum damage (sure they die in 1 hit, but when your 1 hit does over 4 times thier HP you are much better off with 2 hits rather than 1).

I would have totally suggested you play a low AC style attack trader, but without healing such a character would die in the first two encounters.
If you don't want to die, playing control, ranged, or stealth is one of your best options - noting that you probably won't stealth past encounters that your DM doesn't want you to regardless of your roll or game mechanics.
If you are ok with dying every few combats - go ahead and make 2 or 3 chargers a game so that you can simply play.

I had to roll nearly 1 character every other session because my characters were just plain unlucky - its ok death happens. I chose to build different things to learn the game and I grew my knowledge from it.
However keep in mind that it can take upwards of 3 hours to make a build and fully flesh out what you are going to do with it. 3 hours for 1 hour of play isn't really that fun for most people.
If possible, go with a trope of DnD - kid bro / sis out to avenge the death of their older sibling - only thing different will be the hp and ability rolls - this will be especially helpful for those very strong creatures which you need to waste fast and when you choose to use a charger.

I'm sorry if it seems that this is kind of boring, but other than the Everquest Kerafyrm, aka The Sleeper fight method, I see no other viable options with chargers.

Don't know what I'm talking about, I however may not even know what I was talking about. Check here (http://beta.slashdot.org/story/40868) - basically the melee damage dealers were rezed and ran into battle without picking up anything but their weapons before dying again after doing so.

[Seerow]

I'm with the people who are saying "Tell him to stop running/ruining the game".

Seriously, when you take that much out of the game, it's time to take a major step back and reconsider why you're playing that game in the first place. If he wants a no magic game, there are plenty of systems out there that are much better suited to the job, with far less modification and far more balance than what he is doing. And since those games are designed with that sort of scope in mind, the mechanics tend to let characters at those levels be a bit more interesting/diverse than what you are describing.

I'll put up with a lot to roll with what the DM/rest of the group considers fun, but playing a game that has been gutted that completely is definitely a breaking point. YMMV

[toapat]

the only option i see which involves remaining with the group is throwing as much as you can at charging (but that doesnt even account for much because the only class which is allowed deep investment with charging optimization is Paladin which is banned because Douchebag)

the only real option i See is pointing out everyone hates the restrictions, and that if hes throwing what is essentially mass trash at you he shouldnt be DMing anyway. point out that DnD is a game about joint storytelling and that the DM's job is as a referee. The guy wants you to be in a near-lethal campaign but doesnt know how to do it at all (throwing 2 +! CR encounters/day or 1 +2 CR encounter, all properly tuned of course)

[OldTrees1]

1) Ask him why he is being so restrictive for this campaign. Usually other people have reasonable positions when viewed from their shoes. Seeking to understand his position will suggest he try to understand your position. Communication is king.

2) Play a Rogue. The skill system has been left mostly untouched by the DM's restrictions. Skill based encounters can be just as interesting as combat based encounters.

[Eldaran]

No one likes his DMing, but no one wants to tell him, because he would get really offended.

I understand you don't want to offend him, but this situation sounds horrendous to me. Just be diplomatic about it, you don't have to tell him he's a bad DM (even though he is), just explain why some of the things he does bothers you. Say why these excessive restrictions make the game less fun, and tell him that removing or changing class features and skills on the fly make the classes seem meaningless.

[cosmonuts]

Diplomatic?

"This is not the game I'm looking for."

If someone gets offended at you for something so trivial as this, over a board game, you're a much nicer person than I to consider that individual a friend.

[Ruethgar]

I would feel very combative with this DM and would suggest trying to resolve the issue of his banhammerphilia, not try and work around it. However I know myself well enough to know that is not the route I would actually take. What I would do is utilize that juicy any book allowance to make an obscenely powerful character out of third party materials.

Apart from just piles of third party, I might try and be a little nicer and go with the 2nd party Ravenloft Scientist or the non-magic Chameleon variant with the base class being Generic Expert.

Whatever character you make, get Lucid Dreaming whether cross class or not. Focus not on the skill vs skill death, but instead the ability to change architecture and plants. If you aren't creative enough to find a use for infinite creation *cough* transdimensional spell trap *cough*, then you shouldn't be playing D&D. Of course I would not suggest you use your dreams unless you really need to, or want to try and battle the DM's imagination against your own.

Edit: Wait a minute, he allows Gnomes! Doubly flawed gnome, Dungeon Magazine #96 take Magical Heritage and Divine Heritage, third feat Magic in the Blood. That is 10 SLA's 3/day, make the chosen 6 Sanctum Spells and that lets you select 6 first level spells known. In a world without magic that will be rather potent and you don't have a class yet. Generic Expert(gotta love the feat) grab the druid SLA feat from Ravenloft(Redheaded? I can't recall), it gives you a 1nd level(2nd Sactumed down to 1st) SLA and with Magical Blood it is 3/day. Get the template Magic Blooded for a few more SLAs if you want.

It doesn't scale well but I found it fun. The full build uses the book of Ultimate Feats and makes your entire pool of 0-level spells and SLAs like a spell point pool for any 0-level spell cast(whether SLA or Spell).

Since you are a Generic Expert you can easily go into Scientist if PrCs are ever allowed, but you can still take Create Devise as a feat and function fairly well enough. You want to either pick Craft Rune Circle or Craft Wondrous Item as the magic item creation feat you want to imitate. Rune circles are cheaper, but stationary, but can also mimic any magic item you want. Wondrous would let you make the batteries needed to power your devices as well as any Wondrous Item.

Furthermore, take a Major Bloodline as you first class level, that means you have to multiclass and force the issue. Do note that Bloodlines may increase caster level from 1 to 3 for your SLA's but do nothing for the Create Device effective caster level.

[OverdrivePrime]

Ugh. That situation sucks. I remember a few months in high school where we were chained to a petty and arbitrary DM with control issues. It's a tough position to be in. End of Senior year, everyone just wants to kind of coast everywhere and just stay friends.

I'll say this: you will definitely have a richer and more varied experience in college. You will be shocked at how awful a few people are. There are d-bag DMs out there who make your current bundle-of-unresolved-control-issues DM seem like a real sweetheart. And then there are going to be the great ones, that inspire you and through their imagination and leadership, knit together a group of friends that stay in touch even after everyone's closing in on their 40s. That's a rare and precious thing, and the best part is that it sounds like you've got the chops to be that sort of DM. So let your ideas brew, come up with personalities, plots and meta-plots to unleash on your college groups.

Okay, teary-eyed speech over.

It sounds like your DM has nerfed or banned pretty much everything fun except "I run up and hit it really effing hard."
Does he allow any of the the no-magic Ranger variants (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ranger_(Variant_Without_Spells)_(3.5e_Class)), or is the only ranger option the standard ranger, just with no spells? If one of those ranger variants is allowed, think about going the Mongol route; optimize the crap out of your animal companion and grab all the mounted archery feats you can.

It sounds like the DM has screwed up flanking and tumbling rules, so Rogue is out.

Have you ever played a lock-down fighter? Those can be fun. Low damage output, but they can be super-effective against humanoid opponents, and lets your allies gang up on your hapless enemy. It's kind of stat intensive, but it's not like you'll be using that wisdom and charisma for anything. :smallsigh:

Good luck!

[The Grue]

Again, the group is full of friends, including a close friend and my girlfriend, I can't just leave.

I'm not sure I understand why this prevents you from leaving. Will your friends stop speaking to you/girlfriend dump you if you were to stop playing this one particular D&D game?

[Vhaidara]

If you want to just go with it, I'd say make yourself a Drow Swashbuckler. It's far from optimized, but Drow have nice racials and Swashbuckler (by the standards of your group/that class list) isn't a bad class. Bonus points if you go the TWF line, use scmitars, and name him Dzirrt Du'Orden.

[VoxRationis]

Guys, chill out, seriously.
The DM clearly wants a campaign primarily around either pseudo-historical situations or a low-magic fantasy where magic becomes more special by being a wonder you encounter, rather than a tool you use. That's not horrible; there are a lot of fantasy series where that's a thing. Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings are both pretty close to that; Melisandre is an exceptional NPC if I've ever seen one, and Gandalf is about at the 10th percentile of spellcasting power.
Now, I assume that there are limits on the kinds of enemies and situations the DM will be throwing at the OP, in accordance with a lack of spellcasting, but the basic premise of such restrictions is not without merit.
Well, I would start looking into certain techniques and tactics frowned upon because they're "suboptimal" in full 3.5. Someone pointed out that hordes of mooks are a huge problem without control or AoE spells. Whirlwind Attack+Spiked Chain, while not the best for fighting 18 HD advanced displacer beasts or whatever, is great at wiping out hordes of mooks. If NPCs are playing by the same rules you are, or at least 99% of them are, AC is your main defense again; focus on ways to boost that. Tower shields become useful. As you grow higher in level, enemy AC becomes limited by the fact that armor only gets so heavy, so start emphasizing things that take attack penalties to trade for damage or extra effects.

[squiggit]

That's not horrible
It can when none of the players involved want to run said campaign, and when the "low magic fantasy" is monodirectional and when he arbitrarily takes things away from players to fit his vision.

[VoxRationis]

I do have to admit that nerfing skirmish is out of line. It scales at half the rate Sneak Attack does and is completely inapplicable in a number of tactical scenarios, while Sneak Attack can be used repeatedly with feinting, even if you're just in a head-to-head slugfest.

[Sir Chuckles]

I'm going to recommend hold out until the group gets the inevitable geographical divide. Make a fun character to ride it out. It's all anyone can do at that point, that doesn't involve leaving/altering the group.

If Drow is being offered at 0LA, I'd take it. How's he handling the alignment? I'm always curious on that one. Even Drizzit doesn't stay the now corny Chaotic Good through the whole series.

I'd personally go for a fun build, such as Fighter/Swashbuckler with Daring Warrior (Or just Fighter, considering the apparent leveling speed), build it for Disarming, combine with Riposte, Combat Reflexes, and Snatch Weapon.

If you can get it, try going for the Dragon Magazine Fighter variant (http://www.thirteen10.com/the6elements/setting/additional/Variant%20Fighters.pdf) Exoticist.
...That's actually just something I've wanted to play...

[Arbane]

Guys, chill out, seriously.
The DM clearly wants a campaign primarily around either pseudo-historical situations or a low-magic fantasy where magic becomes more special by being a wonder you encounter, rather than a tool you use. That's not horrible; there are a lot of fantasy series where that's a thing. Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings are both pretty close to that; Melisandre is an exceptional NPC if I've ever seen one, and Gandalf is about at the 10th percentile of spellcasting power.

It's a perfectly valid campaign, but D&D is a TERRIBLE system to run it in. Iron Gauntlets or Conan would both be better d20 games for it.


Now, I assume that there are limits on the kinds of enemies and situations the DM will be throwing at the OP, in accordance with a lack of spellcasting, but the basic premise of such restrictions is not without merit.

Didn't he say their BBEG was a Necromancer with an army of undead?

[Sir Chuckles]

It's a perfectly valid campaign, but D&D is a TERRIBLE system to run it in. Iron Gauntlets or Conan would both be better d20 games for it.

Didn't he say their BBEG was a Necromancer with an army of undead?

Yes to both parts.
Note that Vox has expressed his strong love of low-fantasy over high-fantasy, as well as a preference toward the common European standards, rather than Monks and ToB.

OP's setting isn't so much low-magic as it is "Magic PC restricted", by the sounds of it. It's a very obvious case of bad DMing, as he's doing a "I can use it, but you can't" system.

[Hurnn]

OP here, I should clarify. He does not allow multiclassing of any sort, Prcs included. He says "maybe i'l allow it when you guys are higher level" but are already level 5 and we progress so slowly. Gah.

I had mananged to convince him to let me Dm for a few months, but my time is up. The rest of the party doesn't like his DMing much either, but I think I chafe under it the most because everyone else optimizes less than me (except another guy but he is far more easygoing than I am). I cannot leave the group/force him to not DM, sadly, due to the group's situation.


Then ditch him and you and the rest of the group can start a fun game.

[nedz]

So lets recap what is allowed:
Fighter
Rogue
Scout
Knight
Swashbuckler
Barbarian
Ranger

It sounds like he nerfed Rogue and Scout so these are out.
If you were to play an Uber Charger then I suspect that this would be nerfed also.
I could suggest a Diplomancer, but I suspect that this would get nerfed too — but who knows ?
A lock down Knight is an option as are a Trip Fighter or a fear build.
My worry is that anything we suggest will be retroactively nerfed.


As for races he allows they are:
Human
Gnome
Dwarf
Elf
Changling
Drow (with no level adjustment because the DM basically has a Drow fetish)


Maybe you could game the DM by playing a Drow, you might find him more permissive ? Although I suspect that you would have to play a Drow in the way he would play one.

[Ceaon]

No one likes his DMing, but no one wants to tell him, because he would get really offended. (...) We don't want to lose a player in the long-standing group, and more importantly, a good friend. We convinced him for awhile to let me DM, which was great and everyone told me I was far preferable to him, but now he is insisting we get back to his game and it's either tell him we don't like his DMing, or just go with it, and everyone save me wants to do the latter (...).

I have to be honest: the behaviour this group is showing doesn't seem like "celebrating a long-standing friendship with playing a game before we part ways." It reads more like "riding it out until we can split".

If you, as a group of friends, can't tell one of its members, someone who you like and who you get along with in most aspects of your lives, something like: 'your GMing isn't much fun for us, here are some tips', or 'I'd be willing to take over', then you guys maybe aren't as close as you think you are.

I would advice SPEAKING ABOUT IT. Anything you will play in-game will get nerfed, you won't have fun, and your last memory of this group before it splits will be one of annoyance and disappointment.

As for actual in-game advice (against my better judgement): play a skill-monkey. DMs like this love skill-monkeys with skills the party "needs" in order for the DM to tell their story like knowledges, track etcetera.

[CrazyYanmega]

It sounds like he nerfed Rogue and Scout so these are out.
If you were to play an Uber Charger then I suspect that this would be nerfed also.
I could suggest a Diplomancer, but I suspect that this would get nerfed too — but who knows ?
A lock down Knight is an option as are a Trip Fighter or a fear build.
My worry is that anything we suggest will be retroactively nerfed.
As soon as I read the rant I suspected something like this would happen no matter what the OP tries to do.

I take it you have to buy your potions, since potion brewing requires MAGIC, and none of you have any magic. Speaking of which, I'm surprised he even allowed potions, which are technically spells in bottles. Does he allow oils as well?

How does he handle DR Magic, and DR that requires special materials? Does he remove those DRs, does he allow use of +1 and special material weapons, or does he go "OOOOOOOOOO, so OP. Just deal more damage and you'll beat it," as his female drow cleric in tight leather armor stacks heal after heal on the bad guys?

Sorry, this type of DM pisses me off the most.

Anyway, I'd just make a drow ranger with "Favored Enemy Undead" until he bans Favored Enemy for being to OP. If he DOES by some miracle allow ToB, play a Warblade. Swordsage is too Eastern-flavored, and Crusader not only has its inherent "How do I run this randomness system" problems, but the way they get maneuvers is suspiciously like the way divine casters get spells, which is going to raise "Over Powered, Over Powered" alarmbells in his head. Never use any maneuver or stance above 3rd level. even if you DO deal over 100 damage, he'll just ret-con the damage away, and strip you of all your gear until you are a fighter without bonus feats.

[Zweisteine]

In D&D, be DM has exactly ONE job: make the players have fun. The DM's job is not to control the plot. The is allowed to lay the framework of a plot, but not to put anything on tht frame.

Dungeons & Dragons is a collaborative storyweaving game. If you want to write a story by yourself, write a book.


And if our DM does things like makin Tumble not work, tell them that they've gone a step too far. Sure, ou can need things, but don't take away one of the key elements of rogue-style combat.

Make a chracter who can get to and cris tht necromancer in one blow. When the DM says part of your build doesn't work, remind him that there are limits, even to rule 0. It's cruel to strip a fighter of his ability to fight while he's in a fight. Argue, until you can get to this: you can playa caster, but you won't break it

Then play a buff-based cleric, or something similar. Don't break the game, but don't let him break it either.

[Scootaloo]

Make a 1st-level commoner with the "Chicken-Infested" flaw from dragon Magazine. Play for comic relief. Have him be named Dennis (he's a professional Hedgerower!). He's got a severe case of ailuriphobia (fear of cats). At each level you get a feat, put things like "Toughness" and "Diehard" and "Dodge" on him - Dennis doesn't get BETTER at anything, but he does become damn near impossible to kill. Dennis is with the group because none of them can cook, and thanks to a correspondence course, he can turn darn near any dead monster into a satisfying meal (it always tastes like chicken.) At lest that's his story. Dennis the Hedger is actually just trying to escape his wife. Pester your GM to make his wife a minor villain for the entire party. She's also a level 1 chicken-infested commoner. Dennis insists that she's quite the ogre... but if anything she's only 1/4th orc.

Seriously, try it.

As for advice with your DM, here's a few points.

- Ignore the people telling you to ditch. These people are giving you bad advice. You're playing with RL friends, not some group you met on roll20 or something. The dynamic is totally different. The game might be bad, but the people themselves aren't being toxic from what I understand.

- Don't issue ultimatums. No "This changes or I leave!" statements. This puts the DM on the defensive, having to choose between his friend and his creation - either direction he goes will bring resentment. This also puts the rest of the group on the defensive, feeling compelled to "take a side."

- along similar lines, don't try to "speak for everyone." You're not everyone. They have their own thoughts and opinions, and even if they agree in general, they might have different perspectives or approaches than you.

- Also, don't get the other players behind the GM's back and try to rally support. Keep everything open with the whole group. Nothing is more corrosive than the feeling that the other people at the table are plotting against you.

- Be plain about your desire from the game. Say what you want, and what you're looking for. "I was hoping for more of a high-fantasy setting," or whatever. Simply make your preferences known.

- Failing that, offer to DM sometime. Different world, different characters, so as you're not stepping on the regular DM's toes... but basically, putting your money where your mouth is. Your DM might enjoy playing in what you run and might loosen up his own stuff a bit.

- Finally... be prepared to just roll with it. Maybe the DM just has some specific things he wants to do. Maybe he really doesn't understand the game. At the end of the day, it's you and your friends hanging out before you all split. Some lame sessions of D&D are pretty unimportant,all told.

[Amphetryon]

I can think of no compelling reason why your friendship with the Players in this group, including the DM, should require you to continue to play in a game that is, by all indications, not fun for you. This seems doubly true if the other Players are also discontented with the DM's style of game.

[MrNobody]

I'm going to recommend hold out until the group gets the inevitable geographical divide. Make a fun character to ride it out. It's all anyone can do at that point, that doesn't involve leaving/altering the group.
.

This. Try to be patient, since you will soon split, just hold out and try to hev fun with what you have.
Personally i hate living a group for "game issues" when people are great. I just try to fit the style of the DM or i find my way around and do something that give me fun.
Roleplay is about playing with imagination, and if you have enough imagination you can never stop having fun.

And more, as a DM i had my experience of players leaving for gaming issues, and it was unpleasant. I didn't get offended, but i couldn't stop to ask myself what went wrong, expecially because the leaving players told me they "didn't want to play any more", but years later dropped on me that they left because of one player that started optimizing and of my choice on adding BoED to the list of allowed books, and they thought it was breaking the game.

[TiaC]

Have you considered saying "We've been enjoying the campaign we've had for the past few months, and we don't feel we have enough time to get anywhere if we try to start a new one."

[prufock]

Play a factotum with no SLAs.


I had mananged to convince him to let me Dm for a few months, but my time is up. The rest of the party doesn't like his DMing much either, but I think I chafe under it the most because everyone else optimizes less than me (except another guy but he is far more easygoing than I am). I cannot leave the group/force him to not DM, sadly, due to the group's situation.
You don't need to convince him, you only need to convince the other members of your group. Why are you allowing him so much control that he has to "let" you DM? You can't force him not to DM, but you can decide to DM your own game, invite him to play, and run the game the way you want.


No one likes his DMing, but no one wants to tell him, because he would get really offended. No one wants to offend him because as seniors in highschool, with only a few months left of seeing eachother (we are all scattering quite far after high school) we don't want to lose a player in the long-standing group, and more importantly, a good friend. We convinced him for awhile to let me DM, which was great and everyone told me I was far preferable to him, but now he is insisting we get back to his game and it's either tell him we don't like his DMing, or just go with it, and everyone save me wants to do the latter, but I don't want to lose my group because I have no one else to play with. If this seems like petty drama, you are right, it totally is.
In the words of the immortal Trooper: "If you don't like what you've got, why don't you change it?" If he believes you're all having fun, he isn't going to change himself.

You aren't having fun. The rest of the group isn't having fun. There is an adage that "no gaming is better than bad gaming," and you are having bad gaming.

My advice is to be honest without being rude. Don't force him out as DM, but you need to tell him why the game isn't fun (restrictions, arbitrary rule changes mid-encounter, railroading), with examples. Don't gang up on him, but have the group's support (ie, talk about it beforehand and elect a spokesman).


The DM clearly wants a campaign primarily around either pseudo-historical situations or a low-magic fantasy where magic becomes more special by being a wonder you encounter, rather than a tool you use. That's not horrible;
This is not just about the "low magic" style. The DM is changing things as he sees fit, including removing class features and feats from the PCs mid-encounter to suit his railroad. That is horrible.

[Segev]

If your fellow players prefer your running style, talk to them about it. Talk them into saying, "We really like this campaign and where it's going, and want to keep playing it for the rest of the year."

If the only think keeping them going back to this guy's game is his insistence that they get back to his game and a fear that they'll offend him, they're basically allowing him to bully them. Put it in exactly those terms. If anybody - and hopefully somebody will - objects that he doesn't mean to bully anybody - then tell them that you shouldn't treat him like a bully by kowtowing to him.

If he's a friend, then once you've talked to the others, sit down with him, along with the others, and try to explain to him that it's not that you don't like him, but that you guys just aren't enjoying his campaign.

Less gentle, perhaps, but you could also point him to this forum. Start a DMing help thread or something (or encourage him to do so), and ask us to be gentle but firm as we try to help him see what D&D is best used for and why and how.



Regarding your plays-only-fighters-and-is-upset-they're-weak player, have you tried suggesting to him Tome of Battle, or a Duskblade? When you DM, you can help fighters out by giving them disproportionate gear for their "appropriate wealth-by-level." Give him cool weapons or armor, things that are not useful to the other more optimal characters but which give him options and capabilities to keep up with them.

[atemu1234]

I vote just complain to the DM. Don't threaten to walk out, don't stop playing, just let him know what he's doing wrong, hear him out, let him either change or just wait until you leave and just get a new group. He's your friend, so be diplomatic. No need to be hostile or vehement, just point your issues out.

[BrokenChord]

Here's an idea you potentially didn't consider: there are several methods, some of which are listed above, to use templates and the like to get magical abilities. Do that... And be a Drow.

Play it up so hard that your powers come inherently from your awesome Drow-ness, have her wear a kimono she doesn't tie up, draw him a picture emphasizing how moe and Drow your character is. He'll be cool with you being the exception to the magic rule. Talk to the other players about this first; they're likely to be okay with it as long as they know the next step of the plan.

Derail his campaign into the ground with any mixture of joining the bad guy, feeding his quest NPC's to the undead hordes, and doing any stupid thing you can think of to ensure a TPK when he least expects it. Up to and including stripping and walking into an enemy camp. Cast spells if they try to just capture you. Hell, there are suicide rules! He's going to get the message that his workings aren't generating fun for you, one way or another.

[toapat]

In D&D, be DM has exactly ONE job: make the players have fun. The DM's job is not to control the plot. The is allowed to lay the framework of a plot, but not to put anything on tht frame.

hell i figured, the macguffin in dungeon #1 will not even have any abilities till i would ask the players to submit secret notes asto what it does. (iif its legitimately overpowered for that level, it will be magicall deactivated, or the questgiver will just take it and be evul with it)

[Beelzebub1111]

Halfling Fighter taking feats that augment your throwing. Races of Eberron has lots of feats for boosting your throwing skills.

stock up on tanglefoot bags, acid, alchemist fire, thunderstones, contact poisons, and inhaled poisons (memorize the page and line that says holding your breath doesn't help with inhaled poisons)

take proficiency in nets and bolas

basically all anti-wizard tactics.

[CombatOwl]

Hello, my character in a game I am playing has just died, and I need to create a new one. The only problem is, the DM has the pickiest (and in my opinion dumbest) character creation rules. They are

No magic/psionics
Furthermore, I havn't asked but I am sure that Tome of Magic and Incarnum will also not be allowed as they are also "magic"
No "eastern" classes (including monk)
No multi-classing
The ranger is allowed, but you don't get spells, but other classes don't get this treatment.
Alternate class features, flaws, and Tome of Battle aren't explicitly not allowed, but only because no one asked. I of course will ask but I do not expect any of these options to be allowed, so treat these as not allowed (and if they end up being allowed then I am set anyway). Other than all those things, everything is allowed (any source, though he sometimes bans things on a whim).

So lets recap what is allowed:
Fighter
Rogue
Scout
Knight
Swashbuckler
Barbarian
Ranger

As for races he allows they are:
Human
Gnome
Dwarf
Elf
Changling
Drow (with no level adjustment because the DM basically has a Drow fetish)

My last character was a Scout, but he randomly nerfed skirmish a ton arbitrarily so now you pretty much have to do the equivalent of charging your foe to use the bonus damage (and with the scouts lovely defenses, you can see why I died). Point is, I don't want to play a scout.

I am at a loss, so I am asking you all, what the hell do I play with all these restrictions? I am looking for any and every idea optimized or just silly and inane I don't care, i just want to find a way to have some fun, though note that if anything is remotely powerful he may nerf it (but I am not going to let that possibility get in the way of making a new character). Also, no, finding a new group/Dm isn't an option for me.

Drow fighter, obviously.

[VoxRationis]

I did not see the OP's later post about removing class features mid-encounter. You're right. That's very unfair.

[Abd al-Azrad]

This. Try to be patient, since you will soon split, just hold out and try to hev fun with what you have.
Personally i hate living a group for "game issues" when people are great. I just try to fit the style of the DM or i find my way around and do something that give me fun.
Roleplay is about playing with imagination, and if you have enough imagination you can never stop having fun.

And more, as a DM i had my experience of players leaving for gaming issues, and it was unpleasant. I didn't get offended, but i couldn't stop to ask myself what went wrong, expecially because the leaving players told me they "didn't want to play any more", but years later dropped on me that they left because of one player that started optimizing and of my choice on adding BoED to the list of allowed books, and they thought it was breaking the game.

I am going on the assumption that you have resigned yourself to this tactic, that bearing with the annoyances for the last few months is preferable to either (a) making a big scene or (b) not gaming at all.

In my experience, DMs and players alike tend to overlook the softer forms of combat, like battlefield control and debuffing enemies, while assuming any ability that deals hefty amounts of damage is OMG SO BROKEN. Your options are sharply limited without magic, but not entirely so.

Fighters are pretty much kings of the reach trip and AoO build. That can be a powerful contribution to a battle, keeping enemies out of your (and your allies') faces, dishing out damage on the enemies' turns, and frustrating the enemies' offensive attempts. Being rendered prone in the middle of a charge means your attack and damage values are meaningless for that charge attempt. A Knight similarly has that nice ability to force enemies to attack you, rather than your allies, IIRC.

Of course, the best choice for you would be based on your play style. What do you find fun in a regular game, and how can you realize that in this game with all its limitations? If you love being the Damage Guy (TM) then try a TWF Rogue, or a Fighter or Barbarian with a horse and a lance, or something similar. There's only one trick to a build like that, and it's part of the game's oldest Core rules sets. "This is how Sneak Attack works." "This is what a Mounted Charge does."

[LentilNinja]

I just threw this level 10 Fighter together quickly, using feats only from PHB, PHB2 & the Complete series (in case this DM is picky about manuals):

Human Fighter 10
Feat selection
1st: Weapon Focus (Flail, heavy)
Human Bonus: Power Attack
Fighter 1st: Improved Bullrush
Fighter 2nd: Improved Sunder
3rd: Leap Attack [Complete Adventurer]
Fighter 4th: Weapon Specialization (Flail, heavy)
6th: Shock Trooper [Complete Warrior]
Fighter 6th: Combat Brute [Complete Warrior]
Fighter 8th: Improved Critical
9th: Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning) [Player's Handbook 2]
Fighter 10th: Brutal Strike [Player's Handbook 2]

This build will allow you to maximize the effectiveness of Power Attack through charging, as well as increasing the effectiveness of your flail. Putting that together will make a character whos good when not charging, but better when is. Hold out for level 6 and I promise you wont be disappointed.

As for equipment, being you're building as a level 5 you're entitled to 9000 gold. Thats enough to buy you a +1 Heavy Flail with a cool enchantment worth +1 (Flaming, Frost, Thundering are always good. Vicious if you're willing to take 1d6 damage every attack). This leaves you shy a few hundred or so gold of Rhino Hide however. This armor may be worth not picking up an enchantment, as its a +2 armor that gives 2d6 on a charge. More damage is always good for you.

Stats wise, prioritize your STR and CON. Due to Shock Trooper, you'll be running around with low AC at times so trying to have high DEX becomes redundant. However, that doesn't mean a little initiative bonus isn't helpful.

At 10th level, if you charge, you'll be doing this kind of damage (excluding STR bonus):
d10+1 from +1 Flail (whatever enchantment you picked, or +2d6 if you have Rhino Hide)
+20 from Power Attack (Using Shock Trooper, -6 to your AC)

+40 if you used Leap Attack as well (triple Power Attack, since two-handed weapon)
+2 from Weapon Specialization
+2 from Melee Weapon Mastery
Finally, give them a Fort safe vs DC 20 or they're sickened (-2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks) for the round. (Unsure if you can Brutal Strike on a charge.)

This totals to: d10+65+1d6/2d6+STR damage at best. Lets see your DM's face when a level 6 character does that.

Next round? Your Power Attack (though the - goes to atk now) is tripled (this over-writes the double for using a two-handed weapon). I'm unsure if this would stack with Leap Attack if you were to charge again, but if it did you'd be looking at d10+95+1d6/2d6+STR damage!

And if you're wondering, at base you'll be doing d10+5+STR damage. I think thats probably standard. But don't forget, you'll now be able to crit on a 17-20, which will do even more damage! :smallbiggrin:

(Somebody PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on any of that information, so I can change it)

Hope this build helps :smallsmile: And be sure to let him look at the character sheet. Looking doesn't mean you have to tell him about it :smalltongue:

[Naanomi]

0 LA Drow Fighter, Stand Still and Mage Slayer + Support; plan on standing next to the Necromancer and ruining his day. In my experience with 'low magic' campaigns, the end result is usually 'someone with magic will destroy your magic-less party'; so plan accordingly.

[Zubrowka74]

Make a 1st-level commoner with the "Chicken-Infested" flaw from dragon Magazine. Play for comic relief. Have him be named Dennis (he's a professional Hedgerower!). He's got a severe case of ailuriphobia (fear of cats). At each level you get a feat, put things like "Toughness" and "Diehard" and "Dodge" on him - Dennis doesn't get BETTER at anything, but he does become damn near impossible to kill. Dennis is with the group because none of them can cook, and thanks to a correspondence course, he can turn darn near any dead monster into a satisfying meal (it always tastes like chicken.) At lest that's his story. Dennis the Hedger is actually just trying to escape his wife. Pester your GM to make his wife a minor villain for the entire party. She's also a level 1 chicken-infested commoner. Dennis insists that she's quite the ogre... but if anything she's only 1/4th orc.

Seriously, try it.

I'd suggest something like this. You're screwed rule-wise? Get creative on the RP side. Let your inner child loose, have fun! Heck you could also make a totally inept character. Or inspire yourself from over-the-top legends like Old Man Henderson...

[Trasilor]

I have two points:

First, if you like DMing - have you thought about splitting the sessions between the two of you? In other words, one week you play in his campaign, the next yours.

Second, uber-controlling DMs like this are basically trying to write a book. Essentially you are superfluous:

Dieing is hard to do

He also nerfs things arbitrarily, especially when a fight doesn't go his way.

He railroads like crazy because he designs adventures with only one possible solution in mind. Thus, if we don't play exactly how he would play, then everything gets shut down.


he is insisting we get back to his game

He is bullying you. If this guy is a good friend, call him out on his BS.

[TheIronGolem]

Here's an idea you potentially didn't consider: there are several methods, some of which are listed above, to use templates and the like to get magical abilities. Do that... And be a Drow.

Play it up so hard that your powers come inherently from your awesome Drow-ness, have her wear a kimono she doesn't tie up, draw him a picture emphasizing how moe and Drow your character is. He'll be cool with you being the exception to the magic rule. Talk to the other players about this first; they're likely to be okay with it as long as they know the next step of the plan.

Derail his campaign into the ground with any mixture of joining the bad guy, feeding his quest NPC's to the undead hordes, and doing any stupid thing you can think of to ensure a TPK when he least expects it. Up to and including stripping and walking into an enemy camp. Cast spells if they try to just capture you. Hell, there are suicide rules! He's going to get the message that his workings aren't generating fun for you, one way or another.

Yes, childish passive-aggression will surely solve this problem. Also, I am Elvis.

[dascarletm]

Yes, childish passive-aggression will surely solve this problem. Also, I am Elvis.

I second this! Other possibilities is to look at this thread: Rustly Jimmies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339884-Things-Players-Do-That-Rustle-Your-Jimmies)

Then do everything in it during the game.

[OldTrees1]

In general: When this forum advises you to be a jerk, don't.

[The Insanity]

Here are your options:
1. Leave the game.

[Captnq]

Ignore the haters.

You are looking at this the wrong way. You are on a railroad. You cannot win by following the tracks. You cannot win by going off the rails. You cannot win by going faster. There is only one choice. Slow Down.

Every DM that railroads has a story in his head. He wants you to play your part in his story. He has a script in his head and if you don't follow his script, he will make you follow the script. So, you have two choices:

1. Forget about it. Stop worrying about your character, make whatever pops into your head and just screw around. Becomes Oog the barbarian, or spatula Khan, lord of The Souffle'! have a pair of sharpened magic kitchen spatulas. Be a ranger Halfling who cooks food and makes claims to once have defeated the entire army of Demonic Arhabals with a buffet of Poached Flounder. Why? Because you can't lose. The DM just wants you to play your part and you can't play your part if you are dead.

2. Get the rest of the party to make up all new PCs. Remake everyone as the same Fighter who are all in the same unit and everyone has the exact same stats. You all do everything as a unit. You all run in the same direction. You all attack with the same weapon. You call use archery at the same time, and since you all move as a cube, the wounded cycle to the back, the fresh move to the front, and you all just operate as a machine. Stop he RP entirely. He wants you to play a part, so stop playing. Reduce the game to nothing more then dice rolling.

3. Become worthless. Be completely ineffective. Make the most useless character you can think of. Demonstrate for him what happens if you can't do anything. Let the NPCs win. Make him keep saving you over and over. When combat happens, make the dumbest moves. Be an archer without effective equipment like a short bow, or the ability to fire into melee, but shoot into melee anyways. Take feats like fortitude. He wants to hamstring you, take it to a new dimension of loser PC.

[Z3ro]

To give honest advice based on the OP's paramaters:

Given your situation, based on my experience with overbearing railroad DMs, knowledge skills are going to be your best friend. Take the education feat (doesn't matter which class, but I'd advise Ranger, then you have track as well) and just pump up knowledges. Then, whenever a situation arises, make a knowledge check and hopefully the DM will give you the answer he wants to complete the story in his head.

You can optimise this a little, like taking knowledge devotion, but it won't matter. If the DM wants you to succeed, you will, and if he doesn't, you won't. I'd probably just go the most vanilla route possible with the rest of your build; weapon focus, dodge, improved initiative. Don't spend a lot of time building the character or giving him a backstory; your part is already written, just not by you.

[Zweisteine]

Here are your options:
1. Leave the game.
2. Talk it out.
3. Issue an ultimatum (bad idea, usually).
4. Become the DM.
5. Get another player to DM.


Here's an idea you potentially didn't consider: there are several methods, some of which are listed above, to use templates and the like to get magical abilities. Do that... And be a Drow.

Play it up so hard that your powers come inherently from your awesome Drow-ness, have her wear a kimono she doesn't tie up, draw him a picture emphasizing how moe and Drow your character is. He'll be cool with you being the exception to the magic rule. Talk to the other players about this first; they're likely to be okay with it as long as they know the next step of the plan.

Derail his campaign into the ground with any mixture of joining the bad guy, feeding his quest NPC's to the undead hordes, and doing any stupid thing you can think of to ensure a TPK when he least expects it. Up to and including stripping and walking into an enemy camp. Cast spells if they try to just capture you. Hell, there are suicide rules! He's going to get the message that his workings aren't generating fun for you, one way or another.

This is a nice idea. I'll offer some tweaks.

First, establish what kind of Drow the DM likes. If it's the underdressed priestesses, play a Chaotic Good Unseelie Fey etc Drow. From the template, stick with darkvision, don't get wings, and get Vernal Touch. You are a rebel drow, who turned to gods of good, and will fight to show it. Choose some sort of class that is capable of operating without iron (because it'll hurt you), and go have a party with your "turn undead on touch" ability. A monk might be ideal for flavor, but there are probably better choices.
The reason not to take wings is that it will give the DM a tip that something's up, and wings can't really be expressed as part of a drow heritage.

If he likes the dark, broody drow, play an appropriately-aligned Unseelie Fey Drow, with the exact same abilities. He's dark and broody because his family was killed by the necromancer (obviously), and he's on a zombie-hunt.

If you're lucky you might be able to go "I want to play a drow priestess," and use that to get him to let you play a cleric.


I advise against derailing the campaign. Better would be to take it where the Dm wants, then do something not governed by the rules that the DM doesn't want you to do (after getting the other players to go along with it). This is hard to manage successfully, because he can always throw more at you.

OR try to manipulate your DM into a situation where you need something you don't have. Maybe go to confront a zombie army, which means you'll want healing, undead turning, and tactical movement. When you all die, say "if we had a cleric we might have won. If we had tumble, we might have escaped." Go from there.

Convince the other players to fake fight. Intentionally make suboptimal combat choices, until you all die. Then do it again. Repeated TPKs are a sure sign something is wrong. If this doesn't work, you can spin it to your advantage. After you've sent 5 fully-equipped parties to their "accidental" deaths against a relatively simple room full of zombies, go in again, kill the zombies, and loot your corpses.

And watch how he reacts when you die. If he seems excited, he might be under the impression that he is competing with you. In this case, remind him that in D&D, everyone should be cooprating. It isn't players vs. DM; it's adventurers vs. monsters.


This is what I would call the hostile in-game method:
If you have magic items, pull a candle of invocation wish trick. When he stops it, pull up a rulebook. when he overrules it, ask why. When he says because it's cheating/obviously not supposed to work that way/because it's not fair, ask if his random restrictions are really any better. (And if he says "because it's not fair," ask who it's not fair to. If he says the other players, point out that you aren't competing with them, and that the wishes would have benefited all of you (make sure beforehand that they will, of course). If he says it isn't fair to him, point out that the game is already horribly unbalanced towards him, and that you aren't playing player vs. DM anyway.)


EDIT:
It all comes down to this: he is trying to tell a story. He believes that your characters are characters in his story. That is wrong. Your characters have their own free will in the world, and they are out to spin their own story, against a backdrop, and with antagonists and minor characters, set by the DM.

[Gabrosin]

D&D is not a game, it's a social experience.

No one ever really wins or loses at D&D. You can have an utterly miserable experience by creating a god-character and laying waste to every challenge in your path. You can have the greatest time with characters that get thoroughly splatted by the BBEG. The only measurement of winning or losing that's really valid is whether or not you're having fun.

If you've reached the point of coming onto this message board to complain about the situation, you're clearly not having fun. The first and probably most valid option has been repeated several times: find a new group. Objectively, the way your DM is running the game is making it very difficult for anyone to have fun. You'll probably do better somewhere else.

But you've said you can't leave the game out of social obligation. So, on the assumption that you must continue playing... what about D&D is fun for you?

It sounds like part of your fun is in character construction. You want to feel like the character you've built is objectively strong. You want him to be an asset, not a liability. But from the description of the DM, it doesn't matter how well or poorly you've built your character, because your heroes are destined to triumph in the story the DM has written. So set this goal aside. Save it for your next playgroup.

What else about D&D do you enjoy?

If the answer is "nothing", then your only real option is to leave the game. But it's probably not nothing, or you would have left already. You like the group of people you're playing with? Build a character designed to maximize their effectiveness. Normally you'd do this with magic, but you can do it without. Battlefield control (using trip/disarm/etc.) is one good option. Skillmonkey is another. Maximize something ridiculous like bluff and try to lie your way through every single encounter. Or try to collect all the knowledges you can. So what if your character is useless in combat? You're going to "win" anyway.

Embrace the silliness that can go along with a well-run D&D session. Come up with a completely off-the-wall character. You only have to live with this one for a few months, but you can make them enjoyable months.

What you should NOT do is treat your presence there as competition with the DM. For one thing, you'll never succeed in any objective, because the DM has final say on all the rules. The most you can do is ruin the experience, to whatever extent the DM allows. That would be compounding the folly of the bad DM: now not only aren't you having any fun, but you're stopping the fun of the rest of your group to get into arguments. Don't drag them into your unhappiness. Leaving would be a better option.

It sucks that you're not getting to experience the best of what D&D can be, but focus on the good parts of the experience that you do have. You get to hang out with your friends on a regular basis for a common cause. That should be enough.

[Captnq]

Convince the other players to fake fight. Intentionally make suboptimal combat choices, until you all die. Then do it again. Repeated TPKs are a sure sign something is wrong. If this doesn't work, you can spin it to your advantage. After you've sent 5 fully-equipped parties to their "accidental" deaths against a relatively simple room full of zombies, go in again, kill the zombies, and loot your corpses.

And watch how he reacts when you die. If he seems excited, he might be under the impression that he is competing with you. In this case, remind him that in D&D, everyone should be cooprating. It isn't players vs. DM; it's adventurers vs. monsters.


I'll second the TPK. The first time you all die, he'll react and you'll know what to do next. Also, excellent reason to ditch him as a DM. "Hey, we all died. You know, it's just not fun playing with you." However, it doesn't sound like he'll enjoy killing you. I suspect he will panic when you start dying and you'll all "wake up" and some uber-powerful NPC will have saved your ass.

Also, another thing to do is "give up hope".

This is basically where the DM creates this massive "army" of undead with the powerful necromancer and someone points out logically, and ICly, "How are we going to defeat THAT?" And then you all run away. Run as fast as you can. Give up. If you can't run, surrender and give in saying, "It's not like we could have won anyways." Act sad. Talk about what a bummer the campaign is.

A subset of the "give up" is to say, "Damn, we can't fix that. Lets go find someone to fix it." Then go find an NPC. Tell the NPC about the problem and say, "Well, we know you got this under control. We're going to go back home and handle things like rats and goblins. Things we are equipped for." That sort of thing. Railroad conductors usually have an army of Uber-cool NPCs, go ask them to solve the problem and just hang back, letting them do all the heavy lifting. When you just flat out stop trying, trust me, he'll get pissed.

Then shrug and say, "Look, he's a necromancer. Tier 1 class. We are tier 5, at best. No way we can win. We called in a professional, and now we are going to do something we can handle. Why is this such a problem? You created something none of us could fix. What did you expect? We sounded the alarm, and now we are getting back to level appropriate encounters.

[xroads]

To hell with it, I am just going to rant about my group because I haven't been able to rant to anyone about it and it is driving me crazy...

If this situation is causing you a lot of stress, but you don't want to rock the boat, then I recommend just hanging out with them when they game, but not playing. Just socialize and then read book, sketch drawings, play on tablet, or whatever, whenever they are doing some serious playing.

Doing this should allow you to hang with your friends without having to deal with the fustration of playing a character under this DM. It also acts as a passive form of commentary. The DM may start to understand things are wrong when he notices that you just don't want to play anymore.

[CIDE]

I can live with the restricted class choice and the low fantasy/magic setting. Even the exclusion of other systems such as incarnum/psi/maneuvers/etc.

That said I couldn't play in a game where the DM needlessly nerfs classes when they aren't over powered, not optimized, and otherwise not breaking the game. That tells me that the DM can't actually DM. instead of doing what he SHOULD do to mold the encounter to the players he instead has to force the players to mold to his encounter. That is wrong on so many levels and ruins the playing experience for everyone and ruining the "always have fun" rule.

I'm not suggesting you leave the game. They're still your friends and you can still hang out. Something needs to be done though.

[Deophaun]

You don't need to convince him, you only need to convince the other members of your group. Why are you allowing him so much control that he has to "let" you DM? You can't force him not to DM, but you can decide to DM your own game, invite him to play, and run the game the way you want.
I'm seconding this. Just because he's the DM of his game does not make him the DM of all games, or of life. You don't need his permission to run another game.

I'd say offer another system, but this is beyond a setting or rules issue: he wants your characters out classed so he can force you to do what he wants you to do. That's going to carry over to any game system you use.

But that said, do not be a jerk about it. He's still your friend, you just aren't having fun indulging his control issues.

[Reshy]

It sounds like the DM is having a severe case of PC vs DM syndrome in that if something doesn't go as planned he just says "Yes it does because I am god and I says it so it is." In this case I'd probably discuss the situation in private with the other players and see if they feel the same way. If so then we all approach and say that we don't appreciate all the god mode that's going on and to either remove the worst ones or to simply say that we're all quitting all at once and have someone in the group be the DM instead. The DM won't care if one person walks off, but if several do than they have no real power anymore.

[Taet]

Talk to the guy who wants to DM. Say I know that you are going to bring in your special PC character to save us from the necromancer and that is why you have been making the game dull and nerfed and unfun for months just to set that day up. But you will only get to play him one day and then your special PC is gone forever and we are going to go to different colleges and forget that you ever saved the day. Say let me keep DMing and you can play that special PC for the rest of the year.

[Grayson01]

Guys, chill out, seriously.
The DM clearly wants a campaign primarily around either pseudo-historical situations or a low-magic fantasy where magic becomes more special by being a wonder you encounter, rather than a tool you use. That's not horrible; there are a lot of fantasy series where that's a thing. Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings are both pretty close to that; Melisandre is an exceptional NPC if I've ever seen one, and Gandalf is about at the 10th percentile of spellcasting power.
Now, I assume that there are limits on the kinds of enemies and situations the DM will be throwing at the OP, in accordance with a lack of spellcasting, but the basic premise of such restrictions is not without merit.
Well, I would start looking into certain techniques and tactics frowned upon because they're "suboptimal" in full 3.5. Someone pointed out that hordes of mooks are a huge problem without control or AoE spells. Whirlwind Attack+Spiked Chain, while not the best for fighting 18 HD advanced displacer beasts or whatever, is great at wiping out hordes of mooks. If NPCs are playing by the same rules you are, or at least 99% of them are, AC is your main defense again; focus on ways to boost that. Tower shields become useful. As you grow higher in level, enemy AC becomes limited by the fact that armor only gets so heavy, so start emphasizing things that take attack penalties to trade for damage or extra effects.

From the picture the OP has painted you can't even do that because on the fly the DM changes rules, eliminates class features, changes how class features work. This is more then just a no/low magic campaighn this is the DM completely stacking the deck so it happens exactly the way he want's it to and has taken out the players choise of how the story goes.

[Reshy]

In fact in the section of the Dungeon Master's Guide it specifically lists some instances of bad DMing.


Leading the PCs by the Nose:
A bad event-based adventure is marked by mandates restricting PC actions or is based on events that occur no matter what the PCs do. For example, a plot that hinges on the PCs finding a mysterious heirloom, only to have it stolen by NPCs, is dangerous—if the players invent a good way to protect the heirloom, they won’t like having it stolen anyway just because that’s what you had planned beforehand. The players end up feeling powerless and frustrated. No matter what, all adventures should depend upon player choices, and players should feel as though what they choose to do matters. The results should affect the campaign setting (albeit perhaps in minor ways), and they should have consequences (good or bad) for the PCs.


PCs as Spectators:
In this kind of bad adventure, NPCs accomplish all the important tasks. There might be an interesting story going on, but it’s going on around the PCs, and they have very little to do with it. As much as you might like one of your NPCs, resist the urge to have him or her accomplish everything instead of letting the PCs do the work. As great as it might be to have your big NPC hero fight the evil wizard (also an NPC) threatening the land, it’s not much fun for the players if all they get to do is watch.

Deus ex Machina:
Similar to the “PCs as spectators” problem is the potential pitfall of the deus ex machina, a term used to describe the ending to a story in which the action is resolved by the intervention of some outside agency rather than by the characters’ own actions. Don’t put the PCs in situations in which they can only survive through the intervention of others. Sometimes it’s interesting to be rescued, but using this sort of “escape hatch” gets frustrating for the players quickly. Players would rather defeat a young dragon on their own than face an ancient wyrm and only defeat it because a high-level NPC teleports in to help them.

Preempting the Characters’ Abilities:
It’s good to know the PCs’ capabilities, but you shouldn’t design adventures that continually countermand or foil what they can do. If the wizard just learned fireball, don’t continually throw fire-resistant foes at him. Don’t create dungeons where fly and teleport spells don’t work, just because it’s more difficult to design challenging encounters for characters with those capabilities. Use the PCs’ abilities to allow them to have more interesting encounters—don’t arbitrarily rule that their powers suddenly don’t work.


This is what it is, he's a bad DM and please point him to page 45-46 of the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide 1.

[VoxRationis]

From the picture the OP has painted you can't even do that because on the fly the DM changes rules, eliminates class features, changes how class features work. This is more then just a no/low magic campaighn this is the DM completely stacking the deck so it happens exactly the way he want's it to and has taken out the players choise of how the story goes.

Yes, I understand that now; when I made the quote you posted, I hadn't yet seen the bit about the removal of class features mid-encounter, etc.

[Zweisteine]

I'll second the TPK. The first time you all die, he'll react and you'll know what to do next. Also, excellent reason to ditch him as a DM. "Hey, we all died. You know, it's just not fun playing with you." However, it doesn't sound like he'll enjoy killing you. I suspect he will panic when you start dying and you'll all "wake up" and some uber-powerful NPC will have saved your ass.
If you get yourself TPKed intentionally, you are not allowed ot use it as grounds to quit.
As for "saved by a wizard," I think I can do something. After that happens, if it does, you tell the DM that you think you'll just stop trying for character power, and try to go for character development instead. Then begin your character's slow descent into depression (based on deep-seated feelings and fears of being incompetent), as he realizes more and more that he is weak and unable to be the hero he wants to be. He tried to fight the evil necromancer, but he nearly died, and had to be rescued by a random Wizard. Ideally, this mindset is contagious to the rest of the party. Then you try to kill the Wizard, based on the logic that he is clearly powerful enough to defeat the necromancer, but he hasn't done it, so he must be evil. Undoubtably, that attempt will fail. The descent into depression continues, until eventually the entire party simultaneous commits suicide in an instant manner (after a bad fight, everybody coup de grace themselves with a scythe).


Then shrug and say, "Look, he's a necromancer. Tier 1 class. We are tier 5, at best. No way we can win. We called in a professional, and now we are going to do something we can handle. Why is this such a problem? You created something none of us could fix. What did you expect? We sounded the alarm, and now we are getting back to level appropriate encounters.
Maybe it is all level-appropriate... It's just not balanced to favor the players. I wonder... It would be amusing if the players went and did what the DM wanted, following the story he wants to tell, and, upon reaching the final boss, are completely and totally unable to kill him, because the DM made them too weak.

[killem2]

as I tell most people who have these kind of threads, if you are in the omaha ne area, give me a PM i'm not a **** dm. lol and we have a very stable group

[VoxRationis]

As for the "We're all Tier 5 going up against a necromancer" thing, the important part of that comparison is this:
Does the necromancer actually use all the spells he's entitled to?
If he does, and this is probably the case, you have yet more proof that you have a sick DM.
But it's possible, hypothetically, that this necromancer is only deemed so in order that you can fight a bunch of undead, that he'll be easy enough to beat if you can avoid/defeat his minions.

[Captnq]

as I tell most people who have these kind of threads, if you are in the omaha ne area, give me a PM i'm not a **** dm. lol and we have a very stable group

Ya know what?

I'll echo that. Central NY. Give a PM.

[LentilNinja]

Just a heads up btw, he wont allow Rangers with spells but in Complete Champion there is a variant rule where you drop the spell abilities for bonus feats.