Any Caster-type classes that work with VoP and high INT?

[CrazyYanmega]

I'm in a campaign right now, and I've got an Awakened Phase Wasp with crazy high INT. However, my original choice of going Warlock just isn't going to work since my CHA is only 11.

So, what classes can I take that A. don't involve melee combat, B. don't require me to violate Vow of Poverty, and C. use Intelligence as a primary stat?

EDIT: Also, why in the name of the Gourmet World do I always post these questions at times when everyone should be asleep?

[HammeredWharf]

A Wizard with Collegiate Wizard and the ACF that lets you cast without needing a spellbook. Or tattoos instead of spells, but they take too much space.

[Dread_Head]

Beguiler(PHBII) should work for this purpose, Int based stealth casting and an awesome skill list and it should be at least playable with VoP.

[momogila]

Beguiler(PHBII) should work for this purpose, Int based stealth casting and an awesome skill list and it should be at least playable with VoP.

thats true

http://watchfree.me/114/w.png

[HammeredWharf]

Beguiler suffers greatly from not getting magical items later on. UMD is one of their ways to get non-Mind-Affecting spells and access situational spells. Not a bad choice in a mid-OP campaign, but not a great one, either.

[Ansem]

You really want to miss out on items giving you your spells back, more spell slots, raising your INT higher than VoP can, improve counterspelling, dispelling, CL, give metamagic and so on?
Unless it's the WLD, don't go VoP with a caster.

[prufock]

Factotum should do all right as well, though it isn't really a "caster."

[Grod_The_Giant]

Psion, Wizard with the Eiditic Spellcaster ACF (it's in a Dragon, I think), or Beguiler.

[CrazyYanmega]

You really want to miss out on items giving you your spells back, more spell slots, raising your INT higher than VoP can, improve counterspelling, dispelling, CL, give metamagic and so on?
Unless it's the WLD, don't go VoP with a caster.

In case I didn't make it clear, I'm playing a WASP. And not the "shrewish woman" type of wasp. The kind that flies around and stings people. The chances of me finding equipment suited to my size are slim to none.

Right now I'm torn between Beguiler and Dragonfire Adept.

[Telonius]

Warlock can function even without a Charisma bonus - an 11 won't completely gimp him. It will affect save DCs, but that's about it.

If third-party sources are available, the "Lost Tradition" feat in Bastards and Bloodlines allows you to set any stat as your casting stat.

[Chronos]

I think the OP is aware that VoP will nerf everyone, to various degrees. He's just decided that he wants to play a VoP character anyway, and wants a class that will be nerfed by a relatively small amount.

[Vaz]

Psion, or Erudite so you're not too high powered (NOT StP) is the best one, as you know your powers, rather than learn them.

[Vrock_Summoner]

You really want to miss out on items giving you your spells back, more spell slots, raising your INT higher than VoP can, improve counterspelling, dispelling, CL, give metamagic and so on?
Unless it's the WLD, don't go VoP with a caster.

Fixed that for you. No need to waste words :smallwink:

More seriously, VoP hurts casters considerably less than it already hurts everyone else. As for class, well... Is the DM ruling that the wasp can perform the complex physical actions of spell somatic components? Because that might be a big deal.

[Yogibear41]

Eidetic Wizard Variant, or maybe a Homebrew Eidetic Archivist variant are your best bets, since you can never use magical items the only way you will ever get inherent bonuses is basically using wish on yourself, or having someone else use wish on you for free(which seems highly unlikely) barring some sort of gate or summoning shenanigans to get things with wish as SLAs.

If 3rd party is available there is a line of feats in swashbuckling adventures that gives you a non-magical insight bonus to armor class when you are wearing no armor that would technically stack with all the bonus's you get from VOP, for a pretty great AC at high levels. (it also works in Anti-Magic Zones)

[Flickerdart]

Beguiler is pretty decent when you consider that maintaining Exalted status makes killing stuff pretty tricky in the first place. You can use your bonus feats to pick up Vow of Nonviolence and get that juicy +4 to DC on all your spells (as long as you check with your party first to make sure they don't plan on killing any helpless or defenseless opponents while you're around, though the penalty is small enough that they can make exceptions every once in a while anyway, and they can always kill all the captives before sleeping and then wake up with the penalties gone as long as you're under level 8).

[evangaline]

I know it has been said before and I know it will be said again, but I feel the need to ask you why you are not considering playing a psion/sorcerer. Psion should be able to not suffer a huge amount by losing certain magical items and psionic crystals and sorcerers hardly need those at all.

To be fairly honest, playing a psionic wasp would be silly! A wasp, one of those thing you kill with a newspaper because their buzzing annoys you, now smacks you! (with it's mind)

[Segev]

Psion definitely sounds like your best bet. Shaper would let you do neat things with crystals and creating matter. Who needs hands when you can just Minor Create material in the form(s) you want?

[Jeff the Green]

I'll chime in with psion too. One benefit I don't see mentioned is that none of their powers have expensive components or foci, only ever XP components. While BoED recommends letting you convert material components or foci to XP, I've seen some DM's disallow this.

Eidetic wizard can work, but it's tricky because you'll never be able to learn any spells other than the ones you get leveling up. You'll want to be an Easy Bake wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325933-Easy-Bake-Wizard-Handbook) most likely, particularly taking note of the options that give you more spells known.

I'd strongly recommend against beguiler unless the campaign is only going to be quite low level. Past 8 or so (or the entire time if you're in a zombie apocalypse) you're going to be running into enemies you can't affect with most of your spells. Magic items are necessary for them to compete. At low levels, though, they can be great with Vow of Nonviolence, and as a wasp you'll have an easier time pulling off cloaked casting.

Finally, archivist can technically work. You'll need Worldly Focus, and you'll never have more than 4 spells per spell level other than 1st, but it's possible.

[CrazyYanmega]

I hadn't considered Psion before due to the fact that I'm playing a Psion in another campaign. That one is a Kineticist blaster, though. Perhaps a Shaper this time. Anyone got tips on optimized shapers?

I'll probably mix in a few levels of Dragonfire Adept for the breath weapon and the Draconic Knowlage invocation. Our party is kind of lacking in the knowlages department, and a total of +16 to all knowlages would be nice.

[Rubik]

I hadn't considered Psion before due to the fact that I'm playing a Psion in another campaign. That one is a Kineticist blaster, though. Perhaps a Shaper this time. Anyone got tips on optimized shapers?There are two PrCs you'll want to look at for a shaper: this (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) and this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d). Grab yourself a psicrystal and the Linked Power feat from CPsi, and use the latter to lower the manifestation times of powers that take a long time to manifest (such as Greater/Fabricate, Psionic Minor Creation, and even Astral Constructs). Learn how to use your constructs to best effect (as disposable tools and movable walls, especially), and make sure you have this (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7XkmnK-DY9YRkU5SVhCNWZqS0U/edit?usp=sharing) handy for creating your construct sheets on the fly. Focus on using your powers as levers rather than hammers (least effort for the most punch), think outside the box as much as you can, and utilize your power points judiciously. Shapers have a lot of powers that need very little augmenting to be useful, and metacreativity (as well as Time Hop) is really good about giving tools for creative solutions.


I'll probably mix in a few levels of Dragonfire Adept for the breath weapon and the Draconic Knowlage invocation. Our party is kind of lacking in the knowlages department, and a total of +16 to all knowlages would be nice.Go heart-focused dragonborn (if you can) for an at-will breath weapon, and then go for the Gemstone Breath power, from Races of Stone. You can use metabreath feats on both, and the latter can utilize metapsionics, as well.

If you really want to multiclass, try a character rebuild (PHB II) to exchange your racial HD (if any), and buy off your LA (UA).

[CrazyYanmega]

I don't really think something called a Crystal Master that operates around enchanting precious stones is going to be compatible with Vow of Poverty.

[Rubik]

I don't really think something called a Crystal Master that operates around enchanting precious stones is going to be compatible with Vow of Poverty.Technically it could, if the stones were implanted prior to taking VoP.

[CrazyYanmega]

Technically it could, if the stones were implanted prior to taking VoP.

Unfortunately not. I only have Racial Hitdice right now, and I already took the vow.