How bad will this stat generation hurt MAD classes?

[killem2]

In the way of the wicked adventure path, which is an all evil module, has very particular guidelines it recommends you follow for balance, control, and over all feel.

Well this is how they go about generating stats, or at least what they recommend.

We present here an alternate method appropriate to this adventure path called ‘Focus and Foible’. Besides that one, the 25 point buy method is also recommended. It’s challenging being a villain with the whole world against you.

Determine Ability Ability Scores

Focus and Foible

Choose a Focus, an ability score at which you excel.
You receive an 18 in that score.

Choose a Foible, an ability score that is your weakness.
You receive an 8 in that score.

The other four, roll 1d10+7 four times in order. There are no rerolls or moving of ability scores. Those are your other four scores.


Why This Method?
This method makes slightly more powerful characters on average. A ’Focus and Foible’-built character costs 25 build points to make on average but more powerful characters are not uncommon. It compensates for the potential increase in power by making characters slightly random. Randomness never completely hamstrings a character though (the lowest total you can roll is ’8’ after all) and never gives them an ability score higher than their focus.

Therefore your wizard might have a high dexterity and charisma as well as having a high intelligence and a low strength. The writer fi€nds this tends to create slightly more interesting, unusual and diverse characters. If the randomness and potential for character inequity bothers you, you can always use point buy instead.


So what are your thoughts.

[Alikat]

I like this a lot. I'd give it a try in a campaign. When I play MAD classes I go with a 32 or 36 point build with diminishing returns like characters used in DDO. This seems like it might be a more balanced option than that.

[twilsemail]

It looks like an awesome stat generating system and could lead to a lot of fun, as long as your players are really fluid on what they want to play.

As soon as an Oracle of Battle rolls a '1' on their strength or a cleric does the same on his charisma...

"I was going to play a Lore Warden, but I got a 17 Con and an 8 Intelligence... I guess I'm playing a barbarian..."

It looks good for a Wizard...

I may be a bit of an outlier for liking the system though. I still reminisce about my days playing warhammer Fantasy RP... Where even your class was a randomly generated stat. (we went so far as to have randomly generated names)

[HammeredWharf]

It's a decent random method, but will not make any difference when it comes to casters and will weaken MAD characters even more. It's also very, very bad for dual stat casters, because they have to choose between potentially awful DCs for their spells and potentially not being able to cast at all.

[killem2]

It's a decent random method, but will not make any difference when it comes to casters and will weaken MAD characters even more. It's also very, very bad for dual stat casters, because they have to choose between potentially awful DCs for their spells and potentially not being able to cast at all.

True.

Currently, the classes that are looking at playing are:

Warpriest, Hunter, Slayer (this is one person deciding between one of these)

Another is looking at Bloodrager or Magus.

[twilsemail]

True.

Currently, the classes that are looking at playing are:

Warpriest, Hunter, Slayer (this is one person deciding between one of these)

Another is looking at Bloodrager or Magus.

I guess these two could both bump strength and see where their strengths lie after. Player 2 could dump Wisdom and choose between Magus and Bloodrager depending on which was higher (Int or Cha)

I'm not sure how to advise player 1 on stat dumps... I'm not even sure Strength is the right bump stat. Hunter is Dex /Wis right?

The more I look at this, the more I see the set stats as a massive boon to casters and a massive hindrance to most other classes.

Casters are so under powered, though, that they really needed that help.

I'd probably advise that you either let them re-arrange as needed or roll twice and pick their layout. Or roll a 5th stat, keep them in order, but get to drop one.

Edit: I think this generation system would be especially harsh if the adventure is written with an expectation of 25 PB characters.

[Chronos]

Way too high of a variance. Your rolled stats are just as likely to be an 17 or 8 as they are to be a 12 or 14. You could, by pure luck, end up with a bunch of low scores, or a bunch of high scores. And gods help you if you happen to have two similar characters in the same party, because one is going to be just plain better than the other.

[grarrrg]

The other four, roll 1d10+7 four times in order. There are no rerolls or moving of ability scores.

Remove the underlined parts.
As written, any character that wants/needs 2 good stats, which is virtually ALL of them, has a good chance of getting hosed on one of their scores.

The other problem, is you pretty much have to have a class in mind first, so you can choose your 18 and your dump stat, but then the rolls might say "LOL NOPE", and you have to find something else to play.

Granted, it does have the potential for 'interesting' characters (18 STR, 9 CON Barbarian), but 'interesting' does not necessarily equal 'fun'.

[Cloud]

Chronos and grarrrg point out the main problem. For the 4 stats you roll they're extremely variable and every value is as likely as any other, and being unable to move the stats around could be quite crippling, and skill based classes that picked dex as their 18 and then getting 8 or 9 for your int say.

To be honest with my other stats having an average of 12, I would only play SAD characters, probably a Wizard because my Int would be 18 and I wouldn't care about anything else. With how variable working out your other stats are (and all of them being even, instead of letting you have a secondary stat say), I would say this cripples MAD characters and barely makes SAD characters flinch.

Instead of 7 + 1d10, you could do something like, 6 + 2d6, which generates scores between 8 and 18, with an average of 13, which is comparable to your method but much less random. I'd probably just let them change the order of their stats, but if were set on not doing that, you could let them pick a secondary stat which was 6 + 4d6 (pick the highest 2), and a tertiary stat which was 6 + 3d6 (pick the highest 2).

[killem2]

Perhaps then If I use this method, I should prepare for a method of option reroll.

[Keneth]

Just use PF point buy with 25 points. MAD classes will be happy, and SAD classes won't really care either way.