Energy types for blaster casters

[Vedhin]

Let's presume for the moment you intend to play a blaster (sorcerer or wizard).

Of the five energy types (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic), which are you most likely to use and which are you least likely to use? I assume that you will still use the others as appropriate, but which energy will make up the lion's share of your choices?

I'm aware that in general, sonic>acid>electricity>cold>fire. But that only really factors in resistances and immunities. It ignores such things as the dearth of sonic spells and the fact that they typically deal less damage or have some other nerf compared to another energy. It also ignores that many acid spells are less-suited to traditional blasting (Acid Arrow for one).

So, factoring in resistances, weaknesses and immunities (as well as which creatures have those qualities), what spells of each energy are available, what other options (like feats and PrCs) each energy type can use, and other factors, which is best for a blaster?


I've found electricity to be the best in my experience. It has the fewest resistances before getting into acid's problem with oddball spells and sonic's problem with low damage. There aren't really many iconic or common monsters with an immunity, other than demons, and maybe blue dragons. It also has some nice options, like Born of the Three Thunders.

[Shining Wrath]

There's also the question of metamagic feat support and reserve feat support. There is no equivalent to Blistering Spell for other energy types, and Electric and Sonic can benefit from Born of the Three Thunders - which, given Energy Substitution [Electric] as a prerequisite, can turn any energy blast into a half electricity, half sonic blast.

Among reserve spells, there isn't a Sonic reserve spell at all, and Storm Blast requires you to hold a 3rd level spell in reserve while the others only require a 2nd. Wintry Blast gives you a cone, which is good, but does less damage (D4 versus D6). I call this a wash.

Because of Born of the Three Thunders and it's ability to convert any blast into a part-sonic blast, I would move electric up to on a par with acid. Because of Blistering Spell, I'd move fire up to tied with cold.

So: Sonic, Acid=Electric, Cold=Fire, if you have access to many books and therefore sonic spells. If you're limited to core, I might drop Sonic lower than Acid / Electric.

[Deadline]

Fire + Searing Spell Metamagic so you can burn fire elementals to death is always great for a laugh.

[Red Fel]

Are we forgetting Cold, now? More specifically, are we forgetting Flash Frost Spell, which applies damage even to non-damaging area spells; Piercing Cold, which deals damage even to cold-immune enemies; and Lord of the Uttercold, which is like BoTT for Cold spells, dealing half damage as Negative Energy without changing the spell's level? And that's not including feats like Snowcasting, which lets you add the Cold descriptor to any spell as long as you have some frozen water on-hand; Cold Focus, which boosts DCs on Cold spells; Frozen Magic, which boosts your CL when in colder climates; and Cold Spell Specialization, which boosts your spell damage while in colder climates.

And how many elements have a spell that causes long-term changes in temperature and weather for miles around, lasting for months? I'm talking to you, Fimbulwinter.

Yes, Cold specializations are more circumstantial, but a Cold-specialized wizard is equipped to create those circumstances. The intersection of feats and spells stacks up, in a huge way.

Let's not equate Cold with Fire, shall we?

[Windstorm]

I generally favor electric, mostly because the spells are easier to selectively target things with (usually a line instead of cone). this reduces the chances of friendly fire, and the restricted targeting areas also generally mean the damage cap on the spell is higher as compensation.

Born of the three thunders confirmed for mvp :smalltongue:

[BrokenChord]

I like Sonic for a different reason: Most Sonic spells have debuffs of varying strength attached, most commonly deafened, which helps Rogues make their move silently checks and, more importantly, gives enemy mages spell failure chances on spells with verbal components.

[Red Fel]

I like Sonic for a different reason: Most Sonic spells have debuffs of varying strength attached, most commonly deafened, which helps Rogues make their move silently checks and, more importantly, gives enemy mages spell failure chances on spells with verbal components.

Sonic? I use Laser. Who would use Sonic?

[BrokenChord]

Sonic? I use Laser. Who would use Sonic?

1) I meant the energy type.
2) You're a monster. Of the best worst sort.

[Hecuba]

If you're going to stick to a single energy type, it should be fire.

Sonic and acid immunity are uncommon problems.
Fire immunity is a more common problem, but has an easy solution.
Cold has a similar solution, but is otherwise less well supported.

In general, though, I find it better to mix and match.
If you start with fire and aim for energy sub. and energy admixture (electricity), you can then add on things like Born of the Three Thunders while still getting fire goodies.

(Alternately, you can go in the other direction as well).

[Urpriest]

In general, especially as a Sorc blaster, you're only working off 3 or so blasting spells anyway, so the dearth of sonic spells isn't all that important if you can find a couple good ones.

[HaikenEdge]

If I was adamant about playing a blaster caster, I'd play a Force Missile Mage, which allows you to acid, fire, cold or electricity your magic missiles. Sure, no sonic, but four energy types for one spell isn't bad.


Sonic? I use Laser. Who would use Sonic?

The good Doctor would. He'd sonic everything.

[sleepyphoenixx]

All the energy types can be useful. Some just take more effort. All of them want at least some metamagic reduction though if you're serious about blasting.

Fire: Searing Spell and Blistering Spell let you deal acceptable damage to most creatures at least. There's a lot of [Fire] spells but there are few that stand out so Energy Sub:Fire is advisable if you're serious about it. You'll be stacking a lot of metamagic here so you'll probably want to be arcane for Arcane Thesis. There's not too much here for divine casters except Flame Strike which is a long-time staple but doesn't really need specialization to function (and benefits little from it, anyway).

Cold: Piercing Cold helps with resists. There's also Cold Spell Specialization to raise damage but it gets pretty feat intensive since you need Snowcasting and Frozen Magic first.
On the positive side there's quite a few [Cold] spells with excellent additional effects and lots of utility for a cold themed caster.
Frost Breath has a daze, Arctic Haze offers damage & concealment, Creeping Cold and its big brother are famous for the massive damage they do for their level when extended. Add Blizzard, Blood Snow, Boreal Wind, Binding Snow, Sleet Storm, Call Avalanche and the infamous Frostfell and you have a strong case to go for cold.

If Fire is the element for arcanists then cold is its divine counterpart. A lot of really good [cold] spells are divine, with a decent part of those being druid-only. They obviously benefit from metamagic but don't really need it. Energy Substitution works as well as Piercing Cold for +0 adjustment and you still benefit from the awesome rider effects while the Snowcasting line adds CL and damage without needing a higher spell slot.

Electricity: Electricity spells are kind of underwhelming at first glance. The list of spells with the [Electricity] descriptor is short and there's few spells that stand out. Almost all spells are pure damage, the few exceptions that offer conditions like stunning often have sharply reduced damage. It's not all hopeless though.
Call Lightning can be made useful with some tricks (Ring of Mystic Lightning & Swift Concentration), Stormrage makes you immune to wind, ranged weapons, gives flight and allows you to fire a 10d6 lightning bolt/round for minutes/level. Both are druid spells though and there's not much love for the lightning-loving arcanist.

In comes Born of Three Thunders. It turns any [Electricity] or [Sonic] spell into one that combines both descriptors with the damage being half electric, half sonic. It also adds a stun/fort negates and a knockdown/reflex negates to those that are stunned. All that and for no metamagic adjustment sounds pretty good, but you get dazed whenever you cast a Three Thunders spell so you'll have to find a way to negate that to stay effective.
It requires Energy Substitution:Electricity which automatically opens up all those spells with great rider effects, too, so it combines well with cold.

There's a lot less support for acid and sonic but both types are resisted a lot less than the other three, so they're a good choice if you don't want to specialize or as a fallback option.

[NoACWarrior]

So - did the research for BotTT yesterday and was surprised at how many AoE blasting spells actually don't require reflex saves - evasion hurts the ref half spells.

Also - I don't like single target blasters - it just seems a charger would do a better job - and I view blasters as having the duty of making multi target damage or AoE damage.

With that said, I found that acid and electricity was vastly under-powered in terms of AoE / multitarget blasting spells with fire, cold and sonic taking the cake.

Even with the energy rankings you can use the energy sub feat or energy sub metamagic rods, its not a huge issue.

In terms of pure flexibility I felt that fire fit many different combat scenarios.
In terms of pure power I felt that many sonic spells scaled with CL alot better and had better secondary effects.
In terms of low level availability I felt that cold spells were easily obtainable.

With that said fire did mediocre damage and didn't scale well with CL, and some of the better fire spells were obtainable at much higher levels, sonic spells couldn't always be used tactically with friendly fire being risked and were only at higher levels, cold spells did pitiful damage at low levels and only the higher level ones did reasonable damage (outpaced by either fire or sonic).

So it depends. If you take the sculpting abilities / feat and are higher than 8th level then sonic is the best. If you find you have to deal with mooks mixed in with your allies and are lower than 8th level then fire is pretty good. If you are only playing to 5th or 6th level then cold might be one of your only options.

[Vedhin]

Sonic? I use Laser. Who would use Sonic?

Now here's a sentiment I can get behind.


In general, especially as a Sorc blaster, you're only working off 3 or so blasting spells anyway, so the dearth of sonic spells isn't all that important if you can find a couple good ones.

Yeah, but specializing in a spell or handful of spells neglects the variety in areas and possible secondary effects.


Also - I don't like single target blasters - it just seems a charger would do a better job - and I view blasters as having the duty of making multi target damage or AoE damage.

Same here. If you just incinerate the BBEG, it upsets the Fighters. Why not wreck the swarm of minions while the beatstick deals with the main villain?


But in general, I gather:

Acid is pretty bland. Not much for or against it besides the scarcity of resistances and immunities.

Cold has Frostburn giving it a lot of support and some good spells. It takes quite a few feats to get bigger benefits, but they can be used for other energy types.

Electricity has Born of the Three Thunders. The Energy Substitution requirement lets you use this with spells normally of other energy types.

Fire has a wide variety of spells, and enough support to pull its weight. It lacks anything that really stands out.

Sonic hits almost anything, but spells often lack compared to other energy types. It tends to deafen the targets though.



So, from the sound of things, picking up BotTT and Snowcasting, along with associated feats, is the way to go (if you have the feats). That lets you essentially pick and choose between the benefits of all the energy types.



Also, some ways to ignore immunity I thought of:

Fire has a couple of PrCs to ignore immunities and resistances.
Sanctified One is a 1-2 level dip that lets you dodge resistance immunity at first level, but has annoying requirements and costs a spellcasting level.
Silver Pyromancer needs a cleric (or Sacred Exorcist) dip and LG alignment, but is otherwise practically automatic. The class costs you one spellcaster level, but gives you CL=HD for fire spells, access to the paladin spell list, and the ability to partially (later completely) resistance and immunity, over 5 levels.

Any energy type can partially ignore resistance and immunity with this PrC:
The Paragnostic Apostle is available to anyone who meets some fluff requirements and has enough Knowledge skills and 3rd level spells or SLAs (the latter can permit early entry). It can net you partial ignoring of resistance and immunity, as long as the target has an alignment opposed to yours, as well as various other perks.

[Forrestfire]

Personally, I'm a fan of fire and lightning spells, if only because, well, fire and lightning. When it comes to blaster magery, I'm a bit of a traditionalist, throwing fireballs, calling thunder from the heavens, and generally favoring lots of AoE stuff if I can help it.

Or force. Force is a nice energy type. If I can ever get a chance to, I think that Crushing Fist of Spite is my favorite blasting spell, and Magic Missiles are also really fun.

[VoxRationis]

What kinds of AoE blasting spells don't require Reflex saves?

[Forrestfire]

Stuff like Earth Reaver and Ice Storm, iirc.

[Rubik]

What kinds of AoE blasting spells don't require Reflex saves?A number of Conjurations. Some of the Fog and Cloud spells are effectively blasts, though they tend to go more in for things like Con damage than anything else.

[Vrock_Summoner]

Personally, I'm a fan of fire and lightning spells, if only because, well, fire and lightning. When it comes to blaster magery, I'm a bit of a traditionalist, throwing fireballs, calling thunder from the heavens, and generally favoring lots of AoE stuff if I can help it.

Or force. Force is a nice energy type. If I can ever get a chance to, I think that Crushing Fist of Spite is my favorite blasting spell, and Magic Missiles are also really fun.

How dare you base a mechanical decision on whether something looks cool or is fun to play?! These forums are no home to you, you... heathen.

[NoACWarrior]

What kinds of AoE blasting spells don't require Reflex saves?

these WARNING A LOT OF TEXT IF YOU CLICK!!



Wizard / Sorcerer Spells:
Deadly Sunstroke (CMag, Fire 9) - multiple targets (1 per CL), fort half
Scalding Touch (MoE, Fire 7) - multiple targets (touch 1 per CL), fort partial (still damages)
Entomb (Frostburn, Cold 6) - multiple targets (1 per CL), fort partial (still damages)
Moonbow (SpC, Electricity 5) - 3 targets, no save
Dalamar's Lightning Lance (Dragonlance, Electricity 4) - multiple targets (1 per 5CL), fort half
Hailstones (SpC, Cold 3) - multiple targets (1 per 5CL), no save and no SR
Ice Darts (Frostburn, Cold 2) - multiple targets (+1 per 2CL over 3rd max 5), no save and no SR
Scorching Ray (PHB, Fire 2) - multiple targets (+1 per 4CL over 3rd max 3), no save
Elemental Dart (Dragonlance, Any 2) - multiple targets (+1 per 2CL over 3rd max 5), fort half
Shocking Spark (Dragonlance, Electricity 2) - multiple targets (sort of up to 3), no save
Burst of Glacial Wrath (DragMagic, Cold 9) - 30ft cone AoE, fort half
Channeled Sound Burst (CMag, Sonic 5) - cone length depends on action AoE, fort half
Earth Reaver (SpC, Fire 5) - 20ft spread AoE, reflex partial (still damages)
Shrieking Blast (HoB, Sonic 5) - 40ft radius burst, fort half
Shout (PHB, Sonic 4) - 30ft cone AoE, fort half
Parboil (Sand, Fire 4) - 20ft radius spread AoE, fort half
Palin's Pyre (Dragonlance, Fire 3) - 5ft squares AoE (1 per CL), reflex partial (still damages)
Detonate (PHBII, Fire 9) - single target (but AoE if fails fort save or dies), fort partial (if dies get AoE)
Ice Dagger (SpC, Cold 1) - single target but 5ft AoE around target for 1 damage, no save

Cleric Spells:
Erupt (SK, Fire 9) - 100ft burst AoE per level, fort half
Lion's Roar (SpC, Sonic 8) - 120ft radius burst AoE, fort half
Heat Drain (SpC, Cold 8) - 20ft radius burst AoE, fort negates
Earth Reaver (SpC, Fire 5) - 20ft spread AoE, reflex partial (still damages)
Parboil (Sand, Fire 5) - 20ft radius spread AoE, fort half
Sound Burst (PHB, Sonic 2) - 10ft ft radius spread, fort partial (still damages)

Druid Spells:
Leonal's Roar (BoED, Sonic 8) - 40ft radius spread AoE (non-good only), fort negates
Entomb (Frostburn, Cold 6) - multiple targets (1 per CL), fort partial (still damages)
Snow Wave (Frostburn, Cold 6) - 30ft cone AoE, fort half
Thunderous Roar (SpC, Sonic 3) - 20ft radius burst, fort half

Wu Jen Spells:
Deadly Sunstroke (CMag, Fire 9) - multiple targets (1 per CL), fort half
Internal Fire (CArc, Fire 9) - multiple targets (affect 1HD per CL), fort partial (still damages)
Shout (PHB, Sonic 4) - 30ft cone AoE, fort half
Ice Blast (CArc, Cold 2) - 30ft cone AoE, fort negates

Bard Spells:
Ice Darts (Frostburn, Cold 2) - multiple targets (+1 per 2CL over 3rd max 5), no save and no SR
Channeled Sound Burst (CMag, Sonic 5) - cone length depends on action AoE, fort half
Shout (PHB, Sonic 4) - 30ft cone AoE, fort half
Dissonant Chord (SpC, Sonic 3) - 10ft radius burst AoE, fort half
Sound Burst (PHB, Sonic 2) - 10ft ft radius spread, fort partial (still damages)

Assasin Spells:
Fire Shuriken (SpC, Fire 2) - multiple targets with phys attack (1 per 3 CL), no save


Full list:
Acid spells
None

Cold spells
Entomb (Frostburn, Dru 6 Wiz 6) - multiple targets (1 per CL), fort partial (still damages)
Hailstones (SpC, Wiz 3) - multiple targets (1 per 5CL), no save and no SR
Ice Darts (Frostburn, Bar 2 Wiz 2) - multiple targets (+1 per 2CL over 3rd max 5), no save and no SR
Burst of Glacial Wrath (DragMagic, Wiz 9) - 30ft cone AoE, fort half
Heat Drain (SpC, Cle 8) - 20ft radius burst AoE, fort negates
Snow Wave (Frostburn, Dru 6) - 30ft cone AoE, fort half
Ice Blast (CArc, WJ 2) - 30ft cone AoE, fort negates
Ice Dagger (SpC, Wiz 1) - single target but 5ft AoE around target for 1 damage, no save

Electricity
Moonbow (SpC, Wiz 5) - 3 targets, no save
Dalamar's Lightning Lance (Dragonlance, Wiz 4) - multiple targets (1 per 5CL), fort half
Shocking Spark (Dragonlance, Wiz 2) - multiple targets (sort of up to 3), no save

Fire
Deadly Sunstroke (CMag, Wiz 9 WJ 9) - multiple targets (1 per CL), fort half
Internal Fire (CArc, WJ 9) - multiple targets (affect 1HD per CL), fort partial (still damages)
Scalding Touch (MoE, Wiz 7) - multiple targets (touch 1 per CL), fort partial (still damages)
Scorching Ray (PHB, Wiz 2) - multiple targets (+1 per 4CL over 3rd max 3), no save
Fire Shuriken (SpC, Ass 2) - multiple targets with phys attack (1 per 3 CL), no save
Palin's Pyre (Dragonlance, Wiz 3) - 5ft squares AoE (1 per CL), reflex partial (still damages)
Erupt (SK, Cle 9) - 100ft burst AoE per level, fort half
Earth Reaver (SpC, Cle 5 Wiz 5) - 20ft spread AoE, reflex partial (still damages)
Parboil (Sand, Wiz 4 Cle 5) - 20ft radius spread AoE, fort half
Detonate (PHBII, Wiz 9) - single target (but AoE if fails fort save or dies), fort partial (if dies get AoE)

Sonic
Leonal's Roar (BoED, Dru 8) - 40ft radius spread AoE (non-good only), fort negates
Lion's Roar (SpC, Cle 8) - 120ft radius burst AoE, fort half
Channeled Sound Burst (CMag, Bar 5 Wiz 5) - cone length depends on action AoE, fort half
Shrieking Blast (HoB, Wiz 5) - 40ft radius burst, fort half
Shout (PHB, Bar 4 WJ 4 Wiz 4) - 30ft cone AoE, fort half
Dissonant Chord (SpC, Bar 3) - 10ft radius burst AoE, fort half
Thunderous Roar (SpC, Dru 3) - 20ft radius burst, fort half
Sound Burst (PHB, Bar 2 Cle 2) - 10ft ft radius spread, fort partial (still damages)

Any type
Elemental Dart (Dragonlance, Wiz 2) - multiple targets (+1 per 2CL over 3rd max 5), fort half

Edit: thanks rubrik I made my correction and will now sit in a corner and cry.

[Rubik]

these WARNING ALOT OF TEXT IF YOU CLICK!!WARNING. THE ALOT WILL EAT YOU IF YOU TAUNT IT. (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S8TflwXvTgI/AAAAAAAACxI/qgd1wYcTWV8/s320/ALOT12.png

[VoxRationis]

I can't even begin to describe how ludicrous that is. Why would a rogue, able to somehow dodge a fireball without moving from its epicenter, be unable to evade hailstones? The fireball uniformly fills a spherical volume; there are gaps in between the hailstones.

[HolyCouncilMagi]

I can't even begin to describe how ludicrous that is. Why would a rogue, able to somehow dodge a fireball without moving from its epicenter, be unable to evade hailstones? The fireball uniformly fills a spherical volume; there are gaps in between the hailstones.

Well, you see, sir, there's a logical and scientific answer for this. Magic.

[NoACWarrior]

I can't even begin to describe how ludicrous that is. Why would a rogue, able to somehow dodge a fireball without moving from its epicenter, be unable to evade hailstones? The fireball uniformly fills a spherical volume; there are gaps in between the hailstones.

Although this is true, the caster has to make a ranged touch attack for the hailstones. I also list it under "multiple targets".

True AoE in that list is listed as "AoE". But case in point, look at Palin's Pyre from dragonlance - it has a reflex save to stop from catching fire and is a single 5ft AoE per CL. Its not very strong and does something along the lines of 3d6. But rouges can't evasion it away.

[Vedhin]

Or force. Force is a nice energy type. If I can ever get a chance to, I think that Crushing Fist of Spite is my favorite blasting spell, and Magic Missiles are also really fun.

This is one of my personal pet peeves: force is NOT an energy type. It is a damage type, and a descriptor, but not an energy type. Not disagreeing with the rest of the statement, but if force were an energy type, I would be mentioning Binding Chain of Fate from City of Splendors: Waterdeep... which I just mentioned regardless.


What kinds of AoE blasting spells don't require Reflex saves?

NoACWarrior has an extra list. Two additions of the nonenergy damage variety in the SC are Hail of Stone and Radiant Assault. The latter is one of my favorites: it's like fireball without the fire, but it has a Will save and can daze for 1d6 rounds. Who expects the Evoker to spring a blast that has a Will save? Nobody, that's who. Nobody expects everything though, so he doesn't really count.



WARNING. THE ALOT WILL EAT YOU IF YOU TAUNT IT. (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html)

I almost intentionally used "alot" the other day, simply because the mental image of whatever it was with an alot was hilarious.




Also, NoACWarrior: I fail to see raise volcano (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20031017a) on your list. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:
Or other spells from the online articles for that matter. Volcanic storm and storm prison (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20050114a) also belong on that list.

Well I have that last link, allow me to mention skyhurling for being awesome, and skyrift for being a great BBEG spell.

[NoACWarrior]

NoACWarrior has an extra list. Two additions of the nonenergy damage variety in the SC are Hail of Stone and Radiant Assault. The latter is one of my favorites: it's like fireball without the fire, but it has a Will save and can daze for 1d6 rounds. Who expects the Evoker to spring a blast that has a Will save? Nobody, that's who. Nobody expects everything though, so he doesn't really count.

I almost intentionally used "alot" the other day, simply because the mental image of whatever it was with an alot was hilarious.

Also, NoACWarrior: I fail to see raise volcano (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20031017a) on your list. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:
Or other spells from the online articles for that matter. Volcanic storm and storm prison (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20050114a) also belong on that list.

Well I have that last link, allow me to mention skyhurling for being awesome, and skyrift for being a great BBEG spell.

I purposely left out Radiant Assault since it doesn't do elemental damage and therefore can't technically qualify for BotTT - but for blasting its plenty fine (no type is normally better - you can't be immune to a spell that just does raw damage unless you are immune to all damage). Same thing with hail of stone.

As for the spells you listed after that - my list only contains instantaneous non-round duration nukes. AoE DoT nukes are great on the large battlefields but not usually helpful on regular encounters. The normal nuker SHOULD have at least 1 or two DoT options though, since you can stack them with other spells you cast (so long as the DoT isn't concentration based).

[Socratov]

You know, I'm missing the (Lesser) Orb of X line(s). They are primarily used in blasting. if you want to see a good (arguably the best) build for blasting, then the mailman (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1765181) might be your inspiration.

[Vedhin]

I purposely left out Radiant Assault since it doesn't do elemental damage and therefore can't technically qualify for BotTT - but for blasting its plenty fine (no type is normally better - you can't be immune to a spell that just does raw damage unless you are immune to all damage). Same thing with hail of stone.

I know, just mentioning them as good spells that have untyped damage.



As for the spells you listed after that - my list only contains instantaneous non-round duration nukes. AoE DoT nukes are great on the large battlefields but not usually helpful on regular encounters. The normal nuker SHOULD have at least 1 or two DoT options though, since you can stack them with other spells you cast (so long as the DoT isn't concentration based).

Fair enough.


You know, I'm missing the (Lesser) Orb of X line(s). They are primarily used in blasting. if you want to see a good (arguably the best) build for blasting, then the mailman (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1765181) might be your inspiration.

The problem is that the mailman is single target, not multitarget. If you're going to blast competently, ST will trample all over the melee's turf. MT clears out the grunts so the melee can do their job easier.
Fireball is okay but unexceptional, Vortex of Teeth doesn't compare to normal AoE blasting, and Wings of Flurry is point-blank range-- not the ideal environment for blasters (plus it is rather powerful). Not to mention that some DMs frown upon many of the higher-op tactics it uses, and the horrible things it does to the action economy.

The mailman may be able to churn out the damage, but you can make solid MT blaster builds without having to use things like Incantatrix that are notorious for being incredibly strong.

[Forrestfire]

How dare you base a mechanical decision on whether something looks cool or is fun to play?! These forums are no home to you, you... heathen.

*Looks at Wizard/Incantatrix with Twin Sculpted Searing Empowered Fireballs, Telepath//Wizard/Force Missile Mage with Silent Stilled Fell Drain Twin Repeat Magic Missiles cast out of a Schism, and Wizard/Abjurant Champion who spent half her feats to dip Archmage and get Empowered Sculpted Crushing Fist of Spite as an SLA without the disease component.*

When it comes to mechanical decisions, how you're doing it makes a huge difference :smallamused:

More seriously, I feel like a lot of the "God" wizard tricks are just not as fun as some of the other ones. Sometimes it's fun, but most of the time I'd rather to play a wizard who punches people with bits of the sky (http://i.imgur.com/wMDSEoK.png) or makes the floor lava or pretends to be a Touhou character :smallbiggrin:

[Vedhin]

More seriously, I feel like a lot of the "God" wizard tricks are just not as fun as some of the other ones. Sometimes it's fun, but most of the time I'd rather to play a wizard who punches people with bits of the sky (http://i.imgur.com/wMDSEoK.png) or makes the floor lava or pretends to be a Touhou character :smallbiggrin:

Same here. Even the Evocation battlefield control spells tend to be more entertaining. Why cast abland fog spell when Evocation has Gust of Wind, Shatter, various bull rushing spells, Blacklight, Wind Wall, Ray of the Python, Prismatic Mist, Crushing Grip, Wall of Ice/Fire/etc., Bigby's Hands, Howling Chain, and Thunder Field. And that's only from common sources (Core+Completes+SC+PHBII mainly), off the top of my head, and doesn't count blasts with secondary effects.
While a traditional "God" wizard simply hinders the opponents movements or gives incentives/disincentives to be in certain areas, the Evoker moves the foes manually, creates damaging fields, or just blasts them.

Also, that image has moved Crushing Fist of Spite higher up on the "spells I like" list.

[Shining Wrath]

I can't even begin to describe how ludicrous that is. Why would a rogue, able to somehow dodge a fireball without moving from its epicenter, be unable to evade hailstones? The fireball uniformly fills a spherical volume; there are gaps in between the hailstones.

You mean ... RAW ... don't always ... make sense?

MY FAITH IN WOTC IS CRUSHED FOREVER.

[Socratov]

Simple: the more efficient something is, the less flashy it is. Me? I adore the Warlock for my arcane focused characters. That should say enough.

@Vedhin: the mailman is a definite style of play: in essence, every turn he acts, something dies, unless it doesn't and it dies the next. For AOE you want to go nova and for that I thought some kind of psion was better then a wizard or sorcerer...

[Ianuagonde]

My blasters tend to favor fire.

Yes, really.

Because fire spells can deal massive damage over rounds without metamagic shenanigans (though you can add them if you want). The staple Fireball specifically mentions igniting combustibles. Even in a generic dungeon you can find wood, clothing, sheets etc to start a conflagration. A basic goblin village will have thatch roofing. It's not as fast and easy as optimizing for pure damage/save DC's, but my fire spells do a lot more damage than 1d6 per level.

Also, starting a fire can be used for massive smoke signals, preventing hypothermia if your DM goes for that sort of thing, drawing attention, avoiding attention (smoke screens also give your rogue an opportunity to hide), disabling enemies that rely on scent, flushing out hidden snipers (the archers are always in the bush that starts screaming when it's set on fire), and more. In short, fire spells offer a flexibility that other damage types just don't have.

[Shining Wrath]

My blasters tend to favor fire.

Yes, really.

Because fire spells can deal massive damage over rounds without metamagic shenanigans (though you can add them if you want). The staple Fireball specifically mentions igniting combustibles. Even in a generic dungeon you can find wood, clothing, sheets etc to start a conflagration. A basic goblin village will have thatch roofing. It's not as fast and easy as optimizing for pure damage/save DC's, but my fire spells do a lot more damage than 1d6 per level.

Also, starting a fire can be used for massive smoke signals, preventing hypothermia if your DM goes for that sort of thing, drawing attention, avoiding attention (smoke screens also give your rogue an opportunity to hide), disabling enemies that rely on scent, flushing out hidden snipers (the archers are always in the bush that starts screaming when it's set on fire), and more. In short, fire spells offer a flexibility that other damage types just don't have.

Fire offers versatility. So do the others, in different ways.
A lightning bolt will knock down a door, a fireball creates almost no pressure.
Do not get me started on Shatter :-)
Cold can put out fires

[Vedhin]

@Vedhin: the mailman is a definite style of play: in essence, every turn he acts, something dies, unless it doesn't and it dies the next. For AOE you want to go nova and for that I thought some kind of psion was better then a wizard or sorcerer...

While your first sentence is accurate, the second is not. You can do plenty of AoE damage without going nova. And when it comes to blasting, psionics tends to have a higher floor (the powers are decent and scale), but magic has a higher ceiling (more splatbook support).

[Socratov]

While your first sentence is accurate, the second is not. You can do plenty of AoE damage without going nova. And when it comes to blasting, psionics tends to have a higher floor (the powers are decent and scale), but magic has a higher ceiling (more splatbook support).

except that Psionics have a trick to recharge during combat, while after 5 rounds wizards are spent like shotguns. the Psions are more like uzis or tommyguns.

[Vedhin]

except that Psionics have a trick to recharge during combat, while after 5 rounds wizards are spent like shotguns. the Psions are more like uzis or tommyguns.

This is new to me. What do you refer to?

[Rubik]

This is new to me. What do you refer to?There are lots of ways, though most of them are slow (so "during combat" doesn't apply). Maybe he's thinking of sharing Affinity Field with one's psicrystal (after the latter has taken Hidden Talent and been exposed to Metamorphosis), manifesting Bestow Power on it, and then dismissing the Affinity Field?

[Socratov]

There are lots of ways, though most of them are slow (so "during combat" doesn't apply). Maybe he's thinking of sharing Affinity Field with one's psicrystal (after the latter has taken Hidden Talent and been exposed to Metamorphosis), manifesting Bestow Power on it, and then dismissing the Affinity Field?

something, I remember reading about it some time ago, but psionics and I never really saw eye to eye (similar to incarnum), I never had a feel for it. but even if it's not really applicable during combat, it's well able use between combat without straight going for the 15 minute workday...

[dextercorvia]

Not an energy type, but Hammer of Righteousness deserves a mention. Uncapped d6/level (or d8 vs evil -- and it should be) force damage from a 3rd level spell. It is also Fort half, so no Evasion is possible. There is the strength damage sacrifice, but that is why you have a wand of Lesser Restoration (as made by an Archivist -- CL 1, spell level 1), and a divine casting friend.

[jjcrpntr]

I made a blaster Wizard that was a stormcaster. Take energy substitution and turn fireball into a giant ball of lightning and stun the crap out of everything. May not have been the most efficient build but man was it fun.

[Socratov]

Not an energy type, but Hammer of Righteousness deserves a mention. Uncapped d6/level (or d8 vs evil -- and it should be) force damage from a 3rd level spell. It is also Fort half, so no Evasion is possible. There is the strength damage sacrifice, but that is why you have a wand of Lesser Restoration (as made by an Archivist -- CL 1, spell level 1), and a divine casting friend.

That's what mettle is for...

[Vedhin]

Not an energy type, but Hammer of Righteousness deserves a mention. Uncapped d6/level (or d8 vs evil -- and it should be) force damage from a 3rd level spell. It is also Fort half, so no Evasion is possible. There is the strength damage sacrifice, but that is why you have a wand of Lesser Restoration (as made by an Archivist -- CL 1, spell level 1), and a divine casting friend.

Sharn: City of Towers has Force Hammer, which is a level lower and not Sanctified (so available to Sorcerers and Evil characters). It deals only 1d4/level damage (capped at 10d4), and is nonlethal, but a Fort save does not reduce the damage. The Fort save is against being dazed 1 round.


I made a blaster Wizard that was a stormcaster. Take energy substitution and turn fireball into a giant ball of lightning and stun the crap out of everything. May not have been the most efficient build but man was it fun.

Man, now I need to build a Stormcaster/War Mage (the 3rd party PrC from Dragonlance: Age of Mortals) with the Snowcasting line. How does +6 damage/die sound? (It's approximately equivalent to bumping the d6s to d18s, but the damage is less variable) If we could finagle BotTT on there (it's strapped for feats), we'd have spells cast at +4 CL, dealing an extra 6 damage/die, that can knock the foe prone and have two chances to stun. If we had a friendly Cleric or Druid to cast cold snap, we'd get another +1 damage/die (effectively d20s here).

[dextercorvia]

That's what mettle is for...

Absolutely, but uncommon even for enemies with class levels, and then mainly fighter types -- so you don't target them with a fort effect.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If we had a friendly Cleric or Druid to cast cold snap, we'd get another +1 damage/die (effectively d20s here).

Control Temperature (Frostburn, Druid/Wiz 3) is your friend. It's only third level, lasts 1 hour/level, has a huge area and moves with you. It needs a high CL in warm climates but that's pretty much its only drawback.

[Vedhin]

Control Temperature (Frostburn, Druid/Wiz 3) is your friend. It's only third level, lasts 1 hour/level, has a huge area and moves with you. It needs a high CL in warm climates but that's pretty much its only drawback.

Yeah, Control Temperature is nearly mandatory for a Snowcaster. But Cold Snap not only lowers temperature by 5 degrees/level (maximum 50 degrees, final temperature no lees than -20 degrees), but it adds an extra +1 damage/die (not from Cold Spell Specialization).

Cloak of Shade is from Sandstorm, and it lowers the temerature 1 band (on top of Control Temperature's 1 band/5 CL). It's a 1st level spell for Clerics and Druids, lasts an hour/level, and is single target.

If you have Shining South, check out Darsson's Chilling Chamber. 2nd level Sorcerer/Wizard spell. It's 1 stationary 10ft cube/level, but lasts an hour/level and can be made permanent with Permanency. The benefit? It lowers the temperature to extreme cold, no questions asked, giving you the best benefit from Frozen Magic and Cold Spell Specialization. It also does some minor cold damage over time, and effectively casts Chill Metal on everything in the area.
Did I mention this takes only a standard action to cast?


Anyway, I mentioned a Stormcaster/War Mage. Here's what I came up with.

Human Sorcerer 6/War Mage 2/Stormcaster 5/War Mage 5/Frost Mage 4
Feats: Combat CastingHuman, Eschew MaterialFlaw, SnowcastingFlaw, Frozen Magic1st, Weapon Focus (ray)3rd, Iron WillOtyugh Hole, Reserves of Strength6th, Empower SpellWar Mage 2, Cold Spell Specialization9th, Energy Substitution (electricity)12th, Born of the Three ThundersMetamagic Storm, Least Dragonmark (doesn't matter)15th, Maximize SpellWar Mage 4, Mark of the Dauntless18th, Piercing ColdFrost Mage 4.

By using Energy Substitution and Snowcasting on a cold spell in that order, you can get both bonuses. Between Stormcaster, Frozen Magic, Orange Ioun Stone, Reserves of Strength, and a Ring of Mystic Lightning you get CL 28. (Stormcaster loses one). Reserves of Strength uncaps your spells. So you can cast a Snowcasting Born of the Three Thunders Energy Substituted (electricity) Fireball that deals 28d6+168 (266 average) damage (a mix of sonic and electricity damage), can knock the targets prone, and has two chances to stun them. All without using anything other than the 3rd level slot (and taking some damage from Reserves of Strength, but you can afford wands of Lesser Vigor easily). That's not getting into Empower and Maximize Spell.
Frost Mage is actually fairly redundant-- as long as you get full casting, those 4 levels are up for grabs. If no flaws are allowed, just drop Mark of the Dauntless and Least Dragonmark.
Make sure to buy metamagic rods for Sculpt Spell-- or talk your DM into allowing it as a War Mage bonus feat (delay Empower Spell and drop Maximize Spell).