Wouldn't Miko make a great Blackguard?

[JayeFrost]

While there is currently a discussion about Miko's alignment, (Lawful Neutral IMO) I figured why not discuss where her path might be leading. As a fallen paladin who feels she has been wronged *cough* *Lady Darkhope* *cough* I feel that she is going to remain confused with options to either go on life being good or even neutral in her own way. And yet this all seems to be part of a elaborate plan from our lead lich. And even if Xykon didn't have the idea of Miko as a Blackguard in mind, her so vunerable and confused is a opportunity that's hard to refuse.

:xykon: :mitd: :roach: :redcloak: :miko:

[Xanadu]

I can see a natural progression here. . . she's obviously going to be put into a jail cell for what she has done, because even though
she killed the most important man in the city, they are still paladins. So, she will probably be right nearby good ol' Sabine. . . and, I don't think she puts all that much faith into coincidence, so this must obviously be what the gods wanted for her. She trades in her levels, becomes a blackguard and gets some abilities back, better able to break out of a jail cell, and then we have Miko the Blackguard.

Of course, this is just speculation. . . my only problem with my own plan is that I don't think Miko would willingly talk to a demon or go over to the dark side. . . yeah, she's dumb as bricks, she can't puzzle out basic logic, etc. but she is still doing what she believes is right.

So I am gonna do what I normally do. Sit back and let the Giant tell his story!

[Draz74]

:xykon::mitd::miko::roach::redcloak:?

Or :nale::miko::thog::sabine:?

[Setra]

Who knows if she will become a Blackguard, at this point I hope she is erased from existance to stop all the threads about her.

Luckily they seem to be dying down finally.

[JayeFrost]

I hadn't considered Sabine being down there. But if she was in human form and Nale tried to "suggest" her, Miko would have to be in better wits then she normally has shown to get past their reasoning. But getting past Sabine being a demon might be easy if your gods have shown no faith in you and your all by your lonesome.

But beyond the reasoning, Belkar getting to go after Miko unhindered would make my month.

[brian c]

Everyone keeps mentioning the Sabine thing as "peaceful contact", but i don't buy it. Miko doesn't want to be evil, she wants to be good, so she wouldn't become a Blackguard (at least not quite yet). But as for her hooking up (not in the pervy way) with Sabine, it seems too obvious. There's always speculation as to happen in the next few strips, and sometimes an idea gets really popular on the forums because it seems like a logical conclusion. Thog joining OOTS (Hinjo joining OOTS, Miko joining OOTS), the return of Leaky and Pompey... not that people on the forums don't have some good ideas mind you, but I think Rich knows what the obvious logical next step is for many of these scenarios and I think he tries to stay away from them. If Miko does become a blackguard, I don't think it will involve Sabine just because it's too obvious.

[Setra]

She may convince herself that Evil is Good, and Good is Evil

:miko: I have been doing wrong all this time, this 'good' is not truly what is right.

I don't see this happening but I have a habit of argueing for things I don't care about.

[Kreistor]

she wants to be good, so she wouldn't become a Blackguard (at least not quite yet)

Miko is good at manipulating her thoughts to allow her to do what she wants to. Don't underestimate what someone like that is capable of of.

[Jade_Tarem]

Um, what if the MitD is an outsider? Then she could have had her peaceful contact. And yes, I know the MitD whopped Miko into the next county. I'm just guessing here for the blackguard requirement.

[CardinalFang]

I have a strong feeling that she will be (when, I can't say). Consider the following:

1. Based on the Oracle's prediction, Xykon will be near Girard's Gate at some time in the future (before he is at Kraagor's, if he ever is). This argues strongly for the destruction of the gate in Azure City (and probably the entire city itself). Either way, the Paladins have no reason to exist, if there is no gate to guard. With the oath null and void (and possible the city in ruins), Hinjo turns to Roy and asks him to help him defend the other gates/avenge the city's innocents/kick Xykon's tailbone.
2. Nale likes evil opposites. He works HARD to get it right. And who better to be an evil opposite to a totally awesome Paladin than Miko turned Blackguard? He can persuade her that it's not evil, because they're against the OotS, who she KNOWS are evil (and will presumably blame for the destruction of Azure City/the gate). All she is doing is gaining the necessary measure of power to defeat her hated enemy (all in the name of good, in her mind). Thus, Hinjo's opposite is Miko the Blackguard.

[Guancyto]

I see the 'Miko as Blackguard' thing as a one-off rule gag, at best.

"Cross-class ranks in utterly useless skills? That feat chain? You'd think any fallen paladin who took this class was planning on it!"

or something along those lines.

[Alair]

Well, people on other threads have pointed out that Miko already seems to have exhibited all the Blackguard prerequisites at one time or another. Add in Sabine as a possible talent scout being kept a short distance away and it's probably not a coincidence.

I don't think it'll last though, neither Miko or Nale are likely to settle for anything other than being the one to give orders in the group, and Miko's "I have a special destiny" messianic complex wouldn't fit in well with Nale's overcomplicated plot James Bond' villianishness ; they'll probably keep together for one battle and then she'll split off from the Linear Guild to go her own way.

[The Extinguisher]

Miko will not join up with either the Linear Guild or Xykon, whether she goes crazy Blackguard or crazy not-blackguard.

Nale and Xykon are funny villians. Miko's more of the serious type. The king that thinks thier doing good but is really burning down towns. The scary villian.

If Miko joined up with anyone, it would distract from both points.

[Zeb The Troll]

I hadn't considered Sabine being down there. But if she was in human form and Nale tried to "suggest" her, Miko would have to be in better wits then she normally has shown to get past their reasoning. But getting past Sabine being a demon might be easy if your gods have shown no faith in you and your all by your lonesome.I don't think Nale would have to Suggest so much as convince using his bluff skills.

As far as her knowingly associating with a demon, I really doubt that Miko would do this, even after all that's traspired, however I'm not sure that it's necessary. Sabine could just be in her human form and make friendly. Then Miko would have "peaceful contact" without being any the wiser.

For the record though, I'm not at all convinced that Miko is destined to go Blackguard. That just seems like too much of a stretch, even for her.

[Erk]

No, I think Miko wouldn't make a great blackguard, personally. I suspect it is going that way and I trust Rich to write it well, but I think it is a fantastically boring plotline. I have never liked the commonly reinforced attitude that the only way for a Fallen Paladin to go is down, but it is pretty hard to find any stories about paladins who Fell, but did not collapse to evil, and then made their way back up (Deed of Paksenarrion is a good one), and it is all but impossible to find stories about paladins who fell and then realised that being a paladin was just not for them, and instead took up something more appropriate and do great good that way. I would have loved it if Miko had taken up something more appropriate (like gone back to being a Monk)

If/when she does turn to pure darkness and/or become a blackguard, I imagine she will be a lone wolf bent on destroying the people that "caused" her fall.

[Mordaedil]

Um, what if the MitD is an outsider? Then she could have had her peaceful contact. And yes, I know the MitD whopped Miko into the next county. I'm just guessing here for the blackguard requirement.

Actually, they were just playing a game. Which MitD lost twice. :smallbiggrin:

I'm of the opinion that is Miko does fall, she'll be a renegade, attacking all sides of the conflict.

[The Extinguisher]

Erk, I've written something where a Paladin falls, goes into the depths of evil, then goes back up, if that counts?

But yeah, fallen paladin =/= blackguard

[Erk]

Flame master Axel: Star Wars.

[The Extinguisher]

...Your right. Damn.

Oh well, it's different then Star Wars with better dialouge (though that's not hard)

[Cyranne]

I'd rather see Miko spend some time on the evil side of the conflict (I think she joins the Linear Guild, after all, the enemy of here enemies must be her friends) than go straigt to redemption. But I don't think she'll go Blackguard. I think she'll stay an ex-paladin for a while, fighting the oots, maybe redeeming herself at some critical juncture down the line. But embracing evil to that degree seems unlikely.

[Erk]

Axel: even the oldest, most predictable story can be told well and be a great read. I just wish OotS didn't go down this particular road, most specifically the blackguard one, simply because of the cliche that blackguard is basically the only job for a fallen pally. Also because thanks to star wars there is a deeply entrenched sentiment that fallen paladins are evil, which is not necessarily the case... I would even say not usually. I would think that someone who could devote themselves to good in the first place would normally become either a broken shell of themselves, or a less-restricted defender of good after falling. There is no reason they should suddenly stop being good people just because they made a mistake.

Anyway, to Cyranne: yeah, if she falls in with the wrong crowd for a while without going blackguard and without becoming a sinister symbol of ultimate evil, I would stomach things a lot easier.

[Uthrac]

Please note that even the subject line of this thread is something Rich would like labeled as a spoiler. In the future, a more generic title, such as "Miko's Fall and Future {spoiler}" would be better.
[spoiler]

Safe to say the Miko will meet up with the LG in the dungeons. Note that she can no longer "Detect Evil," so it's not a stretch for Nale to convince her that OotS wrongfully imprisoned them, and they are on the "same side."

I doubt she'd become a full-time member, but going along with a plan to defeat OotS? Sure.

Rich has certainly put the pieces in place for a Blackguard flip, but although Miko has fallen, I can't see her knowlingly embracing evil. Still, It's up the the DM (Rich) to interpret what, exactly, translates to "Blackguard." Miko wouldn't take "Smite Good," but she could take "Smite Infidel."

Or perhaps she will decide that this is the path the 12 gods have set her on . . .

In any case, I'm sure there will be a lot of Blackguard/Not discussion!

[the_tick_rules]

I'm not so sure. Blackguards willing embrace and spread evil. Miko believes all she's done has been for good.

[Tilian]

Yeah, Cyranne's scenario is the absolute worst case I'd want to see actually play out too. I really don't want to see her fall further than that, certainly not to the level of blackguard.

[Lord Zentei]

Who knows if she will become a Blackguard, at this point I hope she is erased from existance to stop all the threads about her.

Luckily they seem to be dying down finally.

That's only because she is off-screen. Just you wait. :smallwink:

[dragongirl13]

:xykon::redcloak::roach::miko::mitd: is an interesting idea... cool.

[princelian]

I believe that her sanity will continue to SNAP!!! and that she will seek some means to avenge herself upon the city, the OotS (especially them), and even upon the gods themselves.

<raving Miko>If the gods won't recognize her greatness, then the gods must be brought low!!!<insane cackling></raving Miko>

[Snake-Aes]

I'm not sure if I want her to be a blackguard or not at all, not anymore. Both possibilities might build a very good character... As much as I would like to see her with a happy(er?) ending, a blackguard miko would make an awesome climax villain. Awesome, really.

[Tokiko Mima]

It would be interesting if she tries to revive and drain powers from the dead Gods of the eastern Panthenon, or becomes an avatar for the Snarl. "Paladin-into-Blackguard-sometimes into-Paladin" has already been done to death.

[Archangel62]

If the cells anti-magic system is up and running then Sabine might be locked in whatever form she had, possibly human or at least humanoid. As for Miko being a Blackguard, she also calls herself a Samurai though she has no levels in any class with that name. She might see it as the Gods restoring her abilities, that whole Detect thing might scan to her as detecting her enemies, and I doubt she'd bother with Belkar now, she knows that he's a foe.

[Behold_the_Void]

I personally think Miko would provide an excellent foil to the general Linear Guild party aspect.

[Nemal]

I wonder if Miko even has the Sunder feat? :P

One of the funny things about D&D is that being corrupted into the evil side requires you to know how to break weapons. XD

[Heimdal]

Well, in my own opinion, it would be incredibly interesting if she fell into the sort of fallen paladin who thinks she is appeasing the will of the gods. Sort of like a brainwashing type storyline... like in all those soap-operas... that... I never watch... Really!

Anyway... In the future, I would like to see her working to her own ends under Xykon... it would be interesting.

Also... sundering weapons may not work for her... I think we all remember how sundering swords worked for Xykon...

[JayeFrost]

Even if she doesn't become a blackguard, do to whatever reasons arise, I would never be opposed to it. I personally don't feel that the fallen paladin is a over used cliche. Yes it's been done, and done badly, but I don't think that would be the case with Rich. And thinking that because it has been done so often that it can't be compelling is not sound logic in my view. Long before Star Wars and the like has the "fallen hero gone bad" been around. And the how well it is told determines how well it is liked. I have faith that if Rich writes Miko to her downfall that it will be done in a interesting manner to hush the nay sayers.

As for the fact of her being a serious character, and not in line with the funny villans.... every comedain needs a straight man. And some times the most serious characters are funny from the view point of the "normal" person.

Also, if she only uses the Linear Guild for a while, realizing that they are evil, she still takes steps toward a greater down fall. Though I will be the first to admit she could just as likely shift and be a normal person after seeing the error of her ways.

But really.... it's Miko, like that's going to happen.

:miko: "If I bring you to justice, the gods will see that I have always been their sevant."
:roy: " You feel free to give that a try."

[tojo102]

Everyone keeps mentioning the Sabine thing as "peaceful contact", but i don't buy it. Miko doesn't want to be evil, she wants to be good, so she wouldn't become a Blackguard (at least not quite yet). But as for her hooking up (not in the pervy way) with Sabine, it seems too obvious. There's always speculation as to happen in the next few strips, and sometimes an idea gets really popular on the forums because it seems like a logical conclusion. Thog joining OOTS (Hinjo joining OOTS, Miko joining OOTS), the return of Leaky and Pompey... not that people on the forums don't have some good ideas mind you, but I think Rich knows what the obvious logical next step is for many of these scenarios and I think he tries to stay away from them. If Miko does become a blackguard, I don't think it will involve Sabine just because it's too obvious.

I think what :miko: wants is for her way to be forced on everyone. Since when does "peaceful contact" automatically translate into "hooking up"? And while Rich does indeed pull surprises, sometimes he goes with an obvious logical progression...... :miko:'s fall being the most recent example.

[Cyranne]

I just don't think that she could join Xykon even in this state. So much of her deranged world view is based on a conspiracy between Xykon and the Oots that I think she would blame Xykon for having Roy cause Shojo to say things that made her fall, or whatever it is she thinks happened back in 406-408. Besides, her hatred of Redcloak, and the things he said to her back in the force cage would prevent that alliance.


I really think that if she joins any one, she'll join the Linear Guild. Her hatred of the Oots could easily allow her to think that anyone who the Oots had imprisoned secretly just before Xykon invades must be someone who opposes them and their plans. And even in an anti-magic field, Nale and Sabine both have more than enough charisma to convince her to help them take the Oots, and prehaps Xykon, down to further their own plots. But I don't think even after contact with Sabine, she would go blackguard, sense she still want's to believe she is on the side of good, no matter what her alignment says, and Blackguard would have to mean she conciously decided to do evil.


All that being said, we obviously can't predict with any kind of certainty what Rich has planned for her, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Yzorth]

I think she will slowly progress to a blackguard.

[Silverlocke980]

I'll ignore the "route" to becoming Blackguard, because I want to focus on what might happen after she becomes a Blackguard.

Miko as Blackguard could be an interesting character and much more sympathetic than Miko-as-stands; a tormented warrior, Miko can be seen as someone who believed a little too much in herself and her beliefs, so now that she's fallen she fights out of hate rather than an actual desire to do evil. So she might let, say, peasants in her warpath go, but she will brutally murder any paladins she meets.

Could be fun to read!

[TomMc]

Blackguard or not, good chances are Miko will join up with the Linear Guild.
Firstly, she is obsessed with destroying OotS, and LG is a natural ally in this, especially considering that she's not likely to find any other allies. She might recognize the LG to be evil, but decide to temporary ally herself with them because her hatred for OotS is so much stronger than her possible disgust towards LG. Or she may be tricked by Nale into believing that she is actually joining a good and righteous group falsely accused by loathsome OotS (she can't detect evil anymore, remember?).
Secondly, Nale is a natural born manipulator and Miko.. well she is a natural born victim for a manipulator (Shojo apparently made a good use of this fact). Nale would have no difficulty in turning her confused logic and blind faith to his own ends.
And finally, Nale would be delighted to use Miko. Not only because she is such a formidable warrior (former best paladin of Sapphire Guard), but also because it would be such an amazing EVIL twist.

[Cyranne]

I'll ignore the "route" to becoming Blackguard, because I want to focus on what might happen after she becomes a Blackguard.

Miko as Blackguard could be an interesting character and much more sympathetic than Miko-as-stands; a tormented warrior, Miko can be seen as someone who believed a little too much in herself and her beliefs, so now that she's fallen she fights out of hate rather than an actual desire to do evil. So she might let, say, peasants in her warpath go, but she will brutally murder any paladins she meets.

Could be fun to read!

I don't think you're describing the actions of a blackguard there. Being a Blackguard represents willingly giving into evil, striving to be evil. From the DM guide (ok the third edition one, i dont own a 3.5 one)



The blackguard epitomizes evil. He is nothing short of a mortal fiend. The quintessential black knight, this villian carries a reputation of the foulest sort that is very well deserved. Consorting with demons and devils and serving dark deities, the blackguard is hated and feared by all.

To me a Blackguard has to actively choose to serve the side of evil. Someone who simply kills and fights because of their internal hate doesn't fit that to me. Miko would have to swear herself over to evil knowingly and willingly to fit the idea of a blackguard, and I don't think she ever will. She may go evil (though i think something like CN is more likely), but she will convnince herself that she isn't, so she won't fall quite as far as taking blackguard levels.



edit. fixed typo

[Mr Pink]

If the cells anti-magic system is up and running then Sabine might be locked in whatever form she had, possibly human or at least humanoid. As for Miko being a Blackguard, she also calls herself a Samurai though she has no levels in any class with that name. She might see it as the Gods restoring her abilities, that whole Detect thing might scan to her as detecting her enemies, and I doubt she'd bother with Belkar now, she knows that he's a foe.
Samurai means "to serve" you don't need to take it as a lvel to be one... the Paladins "serve" their master so from a point of view, they could be considered Samurai.

If Miko became a Blackguard it would be stupid... she doesn't embrace evil, and she still thinks she's doing the "right" thing. She believe she was tricked into doing the "wrong' thing which is why she fell, now she has to redeem herself. I don't think she will join the linear guild... Nale built them as evil opposites of the OOTS, what would she be the opposite of? As a fallen paladin, she could be considered a crap fighter where Roy is a good fighter? But they already have Thog...

If anything, Miko will avenge all she feels stood in her way, i can't see it being willingly with a Lich, who she KNOWS is evil and comming to detroy the city that she still wants to protect, and Nale wouldn't specifically want her as she is not an evil opposite of an OOTS member, something he painstackingly trys his group to be.


Though i admit, if she join ANY group it will be the LG... but i would prefer her to follow the path of a Ronin, and try to regain her honour (and powers).

[JayeFrost]

While I don't have a D&D 3.5 in front of me, we recently started a campaign with a paladin who fell and is currently a Blackguard. The fall is not always a choice to do evil but a lack of caring for those you were to protect either through events you had no control over or a battle of wills from your conscience, or that's how my DM has stated his ruling through a massive knowledge of D&D over 30 years. I wish I had the book to quote from but instead I would use the story of Lady Darkhope who is now know as the Blackguard of Faerun. She was originally LG and fell from grace through deception of out side parties. At first confused and unsure she was eventually driven mad with trying to decipher her place. Lucky for a Evil Cleric (of Bane) it happened at a point that he could ultamently direct her towards a new "more understanding god." An to me that is a perfect example of the slippery slope that is a strict moral code. One easily within reach of a zealous paladin. I say the more zealous, the easier prey. It is called Blind Faith is it not?

[TomMc]

I don't think she will join the linear guild... Nale built them as evil opposites of the OOTS, what would she be the opposite of? As a fallen paladin, she could be considered a crap fighter where Roy is a good fighter? But they already have Thog...

Not for the sake of argument, but rather as a funny thought:

And what about Belkar? I mean, what kind of evil opposite can be found for a guy who himself is evil (assuming that is indeed Belkar's alignment)? Perhaps that's why the only member of Nale's team who critically failed (twice) was the intended opposite of Belkar?
But if we have a deeper thought about it, isn't Miko the absolute direct opposite of Belkar in just any way? Both axis of alignment, the way they perceive themselves and are perceived by others, methods, even hight.. :)
If Nale is smart enough, it might strike him too..

[JayeFrost]

Not for the sake of argument, but rather as a funny thought:

And what about Belkar? I mean, what kind of evil opposite can be found for a guy who himself is evil (assuming that is indeed Belkar's alignment)? Perhaps that's why the only member of Nale's team who critically failed (twice) was the intended opposite of Belkar?
But if we have a deeper thought about it, isn't Miko the absolute direct opposite of Belkar in just any way? Both axis of alignment, the way they perceive themselves and are perceived by others, methods, even hight.. :)
If Nale is smart enough, it might strike him too..

I like it. And its quite ingenius. Though I don't know if Belkar would win the fight. And this coming from a avid lover of the Belkar as a whole.

:belkar: "It's like my birthday came early, only instead of a birthday cake there are dead humans...... Well more dead humans, at any rate."

[TomMc]

Though I don't know if Belkar would win the fight.

Belkar has a huge advantage - his brain is normally working for him, not against him :smallwink:

[Jehn]

Well, it's still possible for Belkar to end up killing her, so I can see her turning into a Blackguard. With or without a Deus Ex Machina and a change of heart.

[Zeb The Troll]

Nale built them as evil opposites of the OOTS, what would she be the opposite of? As a fallen paladin, she could be considered a crap fighter where Roy is a good fighter? But they already have Thog...


Not for the sake of argument, but rather as a funny thought:

And what about Belkar? I mean, what kind of evil opposite can be found for a guy who himself is evil (assuming that is indeed Belkar's alignment)? Perhaps that's why the only member of Nale's team who critically failed (twice) was the intended opposite of Belkar?
But if we have a deeper thought about it, isn't Miko the absolute direct opposite of Belkar in just any way? Both axis of alignment, the way they perceive themselves and are perceived by others, methods, even hight.. :)
If Nale is smart enough, it might strike him too..I was thinking along those lines too. And to add to the "opposite" effect, you have Belkar as a hybrid who can't cast his own spells and Miko as a hybrid who can no longer cast her own spells.

[MReav]

I think Miko will, if she does join up with the LG, she'll pretty much be replacing YokYok. Essentially, she can't stand the group, but is willing to put up with it to go after Belkar and crew.

Personally, I think she'd be more disposed to join the Y-k Y-k clan in their never ending quest to destroy Belkar.

[The Extinguisher]

No no, Miko won't join with The Linear Guild. They are opposites on the antagonist scale. Nale and company are villians based on comedy, and Miko would be a serious, dramatic villian. If they were put together, it would dampen thier character strengths.

[Twilight Jack]

I'm not necessarily convinced that a temporary team-up between Miko and the Linear Guild would diminish the character strengths of either. Nale's committment to "Bond Villain" evil will certainly be satisfied by the corruption of a former Paladin; Sabine is an evil outsider sent to the Material Plane to corrupt mortals; Thog is in it for the violence and ice cream; and Miko might just find herself believing that the LG are the real "good guys," framed and unjustly imprisoned by the "nefarious schemes" of the OotS. On the whole, such an alliance would be short-lived, but without her Paladin abilities Miko is at the mercy of her own judgement in determining whether or not Nale and company are to be trusted. Given her willingness to interpret "signs from the gods" as suits her purposes, she might just allow herself to ignore the red flags like Nale's tendency for EVIL!internal monologue for long enough to escape and set out after the OotS. Since Nale now wants to harness the power of the gates for himself, it might be easy enough to convince Miko that the Linear Guild also opposes Xykon (which, in a way, is true).

From there, it's all a matter of how Giant chooses to define a "committment to evil" as required for a Blackguard. Personally, I've always felt that the class' prerequisites had nothing necessarily to do with those required for a "champion of evil" and would be quite happy if Miko found some other way to regain a measure of power without the benefits of the Blackguard class as presented in the DMG. She needs to regain something akin to her Paladin abilities in order to fully convince herself that she is once again on the right path (if that is indeed the way that Giant is leading this tale, of which I am not entirely convinced).

As a final thought: where in the hell did anyone get the idea that the Sunder feat was a prerequisite of becoming a Blackguard? Jesu Geraldo, one would think that the decision to destroy another man's sword as opposed to simply running him through might be an expression of mercy. You remove his ability to effectively fight you without having to gut him. Since when is the destruction of a sword more evil than the taking of a life?

. . . it's just always bothered me.

[Erk]

I always figured that the sunder was so you could render an opponent relatively helpless to give them a moment of recognition before running them through. Maybe I just have a hidden sadistic streak.

[Heimdal]

Again I say... for anyone opposed to the OotS... Sunder is a pretty stupid idea. All it'd manage to do is make Roy angrier... He's kinda scary when he's angry.

But, as to what I really want to convey: A paladin is a champion of good. It has always been a champion of good. Everyone who thinks of a paladin thinks of someone who fights to protect others etc.

As far as evil opposites: A blackguard is supposed to be the exact opposite of a paladin. A sort of evil paladin. They represent two different varieties of straight and narrow (paths that are notoriously hard to walk).

If you can become a blackguard without consciously championing evil, isn't that like a paladin who doesn't champion good? Isn't that like a fallen paladin? How sad do you have to be to be kicked out of the paladins for not being good enough, but kicked out of the blackguards for not being evil enough? I understand the idea of neutral, but... at least know where you stand, yunno?

[Relbeek]

I gotta go with those who say :miko: shouldn't go blackguard. Yep, it's been done, not the least of which in Neverwinter Nights, which I bet half of us have played.

Though certainly the signs are all there: :miko:'s need to react to stress and confusion with violence being chief among them; and her apparent enjoyment of said violence (catch in issue 409 where she smiles as she stabs http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif) and her becoming more consumed with it as she engages in it (same issue, check her facial expressions as she slits http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif up a treat before :roy: subdues her); her absolute inability to consider the possibility her actions are wrong. Also, she seems destined to be locked up with :nale: :sabine: :thog: and hence, to join their ranks.

I think it's very likely :miko: will go Blackguard and I can't say I like it precisely because it's cliche. However, there are non-cliche elements. She was never a virtuous paladin; indeed, she always seemed to be wound up and a poor example of her class at the core.

Regardless, I rather like the idea of a fallen paladin who did NOT go blackguard -- instead, perhaps, joining :nale: :sabine: :thog: and going through an extended period where :sabine: tries to persuade :miko: to commit to being evil (after all, good betrayed her!) and hence becoming a Blackguard, and :miko: refusing all the while.

However, cliche concerns aside, Rich has done a remarkable job with the plot so far, the exposition, and the delivery. If he does decide to go the cliche route, I have every confidence he'll do it with enough humor and original twists that the :miko: storyline will surely be entertaining.

[gadren]

So, I'm curious if anyone still thinks there's a chance for Miko to become a blackguard?
Also, do you think the Giant specifically made this latest comic as a reply to threads like this?

[dragoncmd]

This is doubtful, but has anyone noticed that blackguard is not the only unholy warrior class? If we're sure that whes going evil, then despot might be equally good. Theres also the possibility of taking the holy warior LN class (forgot name, both are in two issues of dragon from a year or two back). I just have a hard time seeing miko going entirely evil, though she's never been good.

And for those thinking that the latest comic was a rebuking of any possibility, I'd be disappointed if miko sold her soul within a day of losing her powers. Even an ass like her is too strong willed for that.

[archon_huskie]

Miko will stay true to her character. Right now she does not even see herself as having fallen. I doubt she has even changed her alignment yet.

[Lizard Lord]

Miko will stay true to her character. Right now she does not even see herself as having fallen. I doubt she has even changed her alignment yet.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html
"The laws mean nothing! They were written by the enemy himself over his 47 years on the throne! Only Honor and the will of the gods matters now!"

Even if the were wrtten by the enemy that does not mean the laws do not hold value and it does not mean they were poor laws. As such I am quite certain her alignment has changed, though I don't think she beleives it has.

[archon_huskie]

Then that's the moment the 12 gods should have taken her powers if she changed her alignment. But they don't. they wait.

No, she's saying the laws made by Lord Shojo are not the real laws. The laws of the Gods are the true laws she must enforce. But once she puts it to the test then she's struck down.

[Mr Teufel]

So, I'm curious if anyone still thinks there's a chance for Miko to become a blackguard?
Also, do you think the Giant specifically made this latest comic as a reply to threads like this?

There's always a chance while the world is full of creatures from the lower planes*...

But it's a sure bet that gadren's a necromancer.

[Cifer]

There's always a chance while the world is full of creatures from the lower plains...
We're already at sea-level. How much lower can the plains get, excepting the Netherlands?

[Snake-Aes]

I don't think you're describing the actions of a blackguard there. Being a Blackguard represents willingly giving into evil, striving to be evil. From the DM guide (ok the third edition one, i dont own a 3.5 one)



To me a Blackguard has to actively choose to serve the side of evil. Someone who simply kills and fights because of their internal hate doesn't fit that to me. Miko would have to swear herself over to evil knowingly and willingly to fit the idea of a blackguard, and I don't think she ever will. She may go evil (though i think something like CN is more likely), but she will convnince herself that she isn't, so she won't fall quite as far as taking blackguard levels.



edit. fixed typo
Correct. Just like paladins are "born" to be actively chasing the cause of good, blackguards are actively chasing the cause of Evil. A paladin does all in the reach to serve good, help people and apply justice. Blackguards do all in their reach to serve evil, prejudice people and instill terror.

[gadren]

There's always a chance while the world is full of creatures from the lower plains...

But it's a sure bet that gadren's a necromancer.

Whaaa? A necromancer? Me???
You've got it all wrong.
I'm an Incubus.
Silly.