BG2 party setup

[Varen_Tai]

OK, here's another BG2 question:

There are a TON of really cool character possibilities out there, but my past playing experiences showed me that you NEED at least 2 mages, 2 priests, a rogue, and 2 fighter types. With that, it seems that while some of the bard kits are really cool, which of those reqs could I cut out? I grabbed the Keto and Kelsey additions, but I ended up totally changing Keto from a Bard to a Fighter/Cleric and dropping more thiefly stats onto Nalia, both using Shadowkeeper.

Am I totally missing something here? Any thoughts? I'd love to keep Keto largely Bardish (I'd most likely add a bard kit rather than keeping her purely a Bard), but since I am mainly looking for story here, it's not a requirement. I just don't see a lot of flexibility for a survivable party...

[Eldariel]

Technically you need precious little; I know of a solo playthrough with a Mage and a Thief at least. That gets quite hard but it's doable. So far as necessity goes, it's quite free. Far as optimality goes, well, in ToB your dualclass and multiclass characters are gonna shine so those are nice. Besides those, well, having one-two warriors is real nice, and one thief makes life a lot easier. A cleric and a mage are needed but a second one is just gravy, so there's a place to cut for a Bard for instance.

[Winthur]

There are a TON of really cool character possibilities out there, but my past playing experiences showed me that you NEED at least 2 mages, 2 priests, a rogue, and 2 fighter types

Well that's just wrong, you can solo the game, the most common party setup I've used in either BG game was 3 frontliners / mage / rogue / cleric, you can play a non-full party with 1 just one of each, and with some workarounds you can play without a rogue or a cleric or a mage (though it gets more difficult of course). Why do you need so many spellcasters?


With that, it seems that while some of the bard kits are really cool

Blade or bust. Or Jester, especially with Rogue Rebalancing from aPack. Massive area of effect stuns that you can perform while invisible are fun.


Am I totally missing something here? Any thoughts? I'd love to keep Keto largely Bardish (I'd most likely add a bard kit rather than keeping her purely a Bard), but since I am mainly looking for story here, it's not a requirement. I just don't see a lot of flexibility for a survivable party...

A Blade can be the party's main frontliner if you buff him with Tenser's and Stoneskin and other cool stuff like that, but he's the best as a secondary DPS who jumps in after the main frontliner. The most minimalistic way to pull a party off IMHO, assuming Keto is the name for your CHARNAME, is something like this:
-Keto the Blade
-Anomen (he can be a master in a blunt weapon, then he can buff himself with lots of stuff like Stoneskin and win)
-Imoen (she's superior to Nalia in every way, also as a thief)
And that's all you need for your core. You can add more people as you see fit - Keldorn would be grand here, making for another solid frontliner. Aerie would be good, etc. etc.

[Varen_Tai]

My usual party runs something like this:

CHARNAME - Paladin Inquisitor, because nothing rules more than a ton of anti-mage abilities added on top of a Holy Avenger +5 or +6
Minsc - because he is hilarious and awesome
Anomen - the Cleric Fighter dual class combo is really top notch
Yoshimo - Love me some Bounty Hunter trappage and a single class rogue
Nalia - I keep her instead of Imoen since I don't jump into Spellhold for a very long time, and Imoen is so far behind in level and learned spells by then that's it's pointless to catch her up
Aerie - as a multi mage/cleric, she is the ultimate backup spellcaster

But that was all before mods - I've added in the Nalia romance pack and the Unfinished business, so I want to see Minsc's extra quest and Nalia's romance, but I have learned through ugly experience what happens when you only have one priest and they get hit with a Stun or Hold spell and die. Gotta have a backup healer. There are some really tough battles out there.

But from what I am hearing, a backup spellcaster is a luxury, not a necessity. What do you do when your healer suddenly kicks the bucket or is incapacitated and can't heal anyone? I suppose that is what saved games are for, but if I've just been through a grueling battle, I usually don't want to repeat it because my single healer died and I lost a few other party members because of it.

This must be what we refer to as a "preferred playing style". :smallsmile: I may have to take a deep breath and try something different....


The most minimalistic way to pull a party off IMHO, assuming Keto is the name for your CHARNAME,

Oh, and Keto is an NPC bard mod added in. Gets lots of top ratings for quality of voiceacting, banter, etc, so not my CHARNAME.

[Winthur]

My usual party runs something like this:

CHARNAME - Paladin Inquisitor, because nothing rules more than a ton of anti-mage abilities added on top of a Holy Avenger +5 or +6
Minsc - because he is hilarious and awesome
Anomen - the Cleric Fighter dual class combo is really top notch
Yoshimo - Love me some Bounty Hunter trappage and a single class rogue
Nalia - I keep her instead of Imoen since I don't jump into Spellhold for a very long time, and Imoen is so far behind in level and learned spells by then that's it's pointless to catch her up
Aerie - as a multi mage/cleric, she is the ultimate backup spellcaster

Have you ever verified this thing about Imoen? Because I pretty much always play full party and do every quest possible in Athkatla before going to the Underdark (maybe even kill Firkraag, if strong enough) and by the time I come see her, she's maybe a level behind. The game has like 3 files for Imoen in SoA and 1 for ToB which influences how many levels she'll have when you rescue her. People keep reporting that they had Imoen in Spellhold with the same Mage level as in Irenicus Dungeon and that simply never happened to me. That, and Imoen's thieving skills and not being tied to a family heirloom ring (which is decent on its own though) makes her superior. Plus she has better banter.

Also, I actually prefer The Purifier +5 to Holy Avenger +6 when it comes to the late game. Purifier can be dual-wielded (Foebane, Runic Hammer, Crom or whatever else you want as your combo weapon) and the benefits from using the Eye of Tyr on Purifier seem to be better than Holy Avenger. Though I guess Carsomyr gets style points. I remember I had fun playing a paladin with Keldorn as a buddy cop movie and Keldorn used the oldschool Carsomyr while the hotshot new cop in town CHARNAME did that whole newfangled dualwielding thing. :smallbiggrin:



But that was all before mods - I've added in the Nalia romance pack and the Unfinished business, so I want to see Minsc's extra quest and Nalia's romance, but I have learned through ugly experience what happens when you only have one priest and they get hit with a Stun or Hold spell and die. Gotta have a backup healer. There are some really tough battles out there.

There are healing potions, prebuffs and even potions that bolster your saving throws, resistances and other stats. If you really don't want your Cleric to die and you just want him to be at the back, the humble Sanctuary spell goes a long way in keeping him alive. If you get into a fight where your Tank-type Cleric dies before doing anything meaningful, then you've probably picked the wrong fight (or just a lucky crit happened, I guess).


But from what I am hearing, a backup spellcaster is a luxury, not a necessity. What do you do when your healer suddenly kicks the bucket or is incapacitated and can't heal anyone?

Rod of Ressurrection, Extra Healing potions/antidotes/whatever other potions you need, Ring of Free Action on your healer, having your healer be a Dwarf (I'm of the opinion that Dorfs are balanced in BG2 by not being romancable :smalltongue:). Aerie can learn Contingency to spring a Heal on herself or something along these lines. Also you can just rest between battles depending on the area. Or, if you have to read War and Peace, leave the game running after every battle and pass Ribald's Ring of Regeneration (sneaky Bard fingers are exceptional at stealing those) around to heal everyone while you enjoy the tales of Poruchik Rzhevsky and his misdemeanors towards Natasha Rostova. And the Napoleonic wars I guess.

The game really is designed - not sure how intentionally - so that you can get by without certain things. There's enough healing consumables and items for your healing needs; when in need of abjuration-breakers like Breach that only high level mages possess, you can opt to wait out the duration of the spell, use the humble Dispel Magic (it even comes on wands IIRC) and ToB has Ruby Ray of Reversal available on a wand. Fighters can be replaced with summons, buffs and attrition tactics (solo Assassin playthrough is a really fun experience). Thieves aren't necessary either - you can use Knock on locks, Cleric spell Find Traps, you can just tank traps especially once you know what they do or you have someone tanky enough to not care (Dorf vs Disintegrate trap guess who wins), you can cast a summon to trigger the trap, you can just bypass the trap if it's not whole room wide, etc. etc.


Oh, and Keto is an NPC bard mod added in. Gets lots of top ratings for quality of voiceacting, banter, etc, so not my CHARNAME.

I'm wary about what passes for "decent NPC mod" after everyone recommended me Chloe, Solaufein and Saerileth. :smalltongue:

[Varen_Tai]

Have you ever verified this thing about Imoen? Because I pretty much always play full party and do every quest possible in Athkatla before going to the Underdark (maybe even kill Firkraag, if strong enough) and by the time I come see her, she's maybe a level behind. The game has like 3 files for Imoen in SoA and 1 for ToB which influences how many levels she'll have when you rescue her. People keep reporting that they had Imoen in Spellhold with the same Mage level as in Irenicus Dungeon and that simply never happened to me. That, and Imoen's thieving skills and not being tied to a family heirloom ring (which is decent on its own though) makes her superior. Plus she has better banter.

Years ago, right when BG2 first came out, on the very first game I played, I grabbed Imoen instead of Nalia, and her level had not changed. She was easily 10 levels behind everyone else, and there was no Shadowkeeper at that point to fix missing spells and exp. Maybe it's not true anymore, since I have never attempted it again. After I finish Nalia's romance and grab Imoen, I might switch them out...


Also, I actually prefer The Purifier +5 to Holy Avenger +6 when it comes to the late game. Purifier can be dual-wielded (Foebane, Runic Hammer, Crom or whatever else you want as your combo weapon) and the benefits from using the Eye of Tyr on Purifier seem to be better than Holy Avenger. Though I guess Carsomyr gets style points. I remember I had fun playing a paladin with Keldorn as a buddy cop movie and Keldorn used the oldschool Carsomyr while the hotshot new cop in town CHARNAME did that whole newfangled dualwielding thing. :smallbiggrin:

Oooooo, that sounds like a fun idea...


There are healing potions, prebuffs and even potions that bolster your saving throws, resistances and other stats. If you really don't want your Cleric to die and you just want him to be at the back, the humble Sanctuary spell goes a long way in keeping him alive. If you get into a fight where your Tank-type Cleric dies before doing anything meaningful, then you've probably picked the wrong fight (or just a lucky crit happened, I guess).

All excellent points. I will try my first game with only 1 cleric! My first time with Viccy, actually. Since I usually play a pally, I don't bring her along, but one of the mods prevents party members from leaving when rep gets too high or low, or fighting (like Anomen and Aerie). She'll actually stick around when I hit rep 20, so why not?


I'm wary about what passes for "decent NPC mod" after everyone recommended me Chloe, Solaufein and Saerileth. :smalltongue:

Heh. I haven't tried any of them mainly because the ratings on them tend to be lower, but both Kelsey and Keto came VERY highly rated. I'll let you know what I think as I get into it more...

[Triaxx]

My customary party is: Charname, Minsc, Jaheira, Aerie, Mazzy and Imoen or a custom thief. Or alternately, the character of the moment, like Cernd or Valygar.

I have lately changed up to use Jan instead of a custom thief. This gives me thief skills and more magic, in the cases where my main character is not an arcane caster. Jaheira gives me power and magic. Belm plus shield of Harmony, plus Ironskins makes her a monster frontliner. Minsc is all sword and board, with a little magic to back himself up. Two handed-swords makes him a DPS monster. Mazzy has the heaviest armor available, and short swords. It looks a little silly, but she's pretty good with a halberd as well. Aerie brings the one-two punch of a mage and cleric and has the rare ability to cast contingencies from both sets of magic. Contingency Heal anyone?

That said, I've seen a solo Sorceror make mince out of most of the game, in a no-reload scenario, so... Party is mostly optional.

[Cespenar]

Here's two parties that I've played:

1) Kensai/mage, Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Edwin, Anomen
2) Cavalier, Keldorn, Anomen

The difference between these two parties are that the second was (for me) about five times easier than the first. So, yeah, no party requirements are set in stone.

[Varen_Tai]

Here's two parties that I've played:

1) Kensai/mage, Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Edwin, Anomen
2) Cavalier, Keldorn, Anomen

The difference between these two parties are that the second was (for me) about five times easier than the first. So, yeah, no party requirements are set in stone.

Huh. Interesting. Is that because you didn't have to worry about keeping the extra three alive? All your heals and power was concentrated in just 3 party members? What did you do about traps? There are some real doozies out there...

[Winthur]

Huh. Interesting. Is that because you didn't have to worry about keeping the extra three alive? All your heals and power was concentrated in just 3 party members? What did you do about traps? There are some real doozies out there...

You can open locks by forcing them open with a weapon on a particularly strong character. No XP gain, but if your party is small and doesn't have a thief, it evens itself out sorta. 25 Strength should open any lock in the game, and you can have that permanently once Crom Faeyr is assembled.
Traps can be forced by particularly strong characters with resistances, and clerics have the best self-buffs in the game anyway, as well as healing afterwards.
Also, Baldur's Gate, to tell you the truth, seems to be the easiest with a strategy that has you rely on fighters than on spellcasters. With spellcaster-heavy party, you have to worry about their low HP pools and other stuff - they'll die easily to invisible assassins or AoE damage. But if all you have is a bunch of beatsticks, then all you'd prefer for them to have is a Haste spell on them all and have them go to town - and Haste can be replicated by Oils of Speed. And then, since the party is small, you're going to have those three thugs get really tanky, especially with Anomen unlocking high level cleric spells early, and everyone getting their ToB special skills. So what I'm assuming is that Cespenar just kinda zerged every encounter, kickin' them in the head 'til they were dead! Nya-ha! :smallbiggrin:

Those characters should also (or at least Anomen should), if my memory doesn't fail me, be perfectly capable of utilising wands and green scrolls for any contemporary needs. Useful trick to know is that if you sell the wands you receive in Irenicus' Dungeon and steal or buy them back, you'll receive them with 50 charges each.

In fact, this reminds me that you can make a small fortune by imbuing your thief or bard with master thievery potions and have him run around, shoplifting cool stuff and pickpocketing useful items:
-Ribald (Adventurer's Mart on Waukeen Promenade) has a Ring of Regeneration;
-The guard that stands inside the Adventurer's Mart, right next to the door, has a chance of spawning with a high level scroll. No joke - I managed to get Breach and Simulacrum. I don't get it either. I'm sure other Amn soldiers might have the same thing going for them.
-You can rob Lady Yuth.
-You can potentially receive three Rings of the Ram if you pickpocket Tolgerias on every occasion you meet him.
-One of the Djinns (can't remember who for the life of me) has an Efreeti bottle.
-Villynaty has a part of the Wave halberd.
-try it out on every major shopkeeper in fact - try robbing Bernard in Copper Coronet, for instance


Everything you get shoplifted, you can sell at the shady dealer who spawns on Promenade at night, or at Gorch at Mae'Var's place in the Docks, and I'm pretty sure Roger in the Temple District sewers doesn't mind stolen goods.

[Cespenar]

Huh. Interesting. Is that because you didn't have to worry about keeping the extra three alive? All your heals and power was concentrated in just 3 party members? What did you do about traps? There are some real doozies out there...

What Winthur said. More to follow below.


So what I'm assuming is that Cespenar just kinda zerged every encounter, kickin' them in the head 'til they were dead! Nya-ha! :smallbiggrin:

The way I see it, the thing to worry in BG2 is always spellcasters. Normally, you do it by bringing your own and leveling the field. Without any arcane spellcasters at all, I assume the game can get somewhat difficult.

That is, unless you have an Inquisitor. Which is basically saying "screw you" to about 80% of the game.

[Varen_Tai]

The way I see it, the thing to worry in BG2 is always spellcasters. Normally, you do it by bringing your own and leveling the field. Without any arcane spellcasters at all, I assume the game can get somewhat difficult.

That is, unless you have an Inquisitor. Which is basically saying "screw you" to about 80% of the game.

Well, being a HUGE fan of Inquisitors myself, I find that even with Carsomyr, I still need Breach and a few other spell removals to be fully able to tackle liches and the like. Dispel Magic doesn't cover all the bases.

[Kish]

Liches are immune to Breach, you know. Casting it on them is just wasting a spell.

Dispel Magic's weaknesses are that it can't be individually targeted, so Keldorn will strip your buffs along with the enemy's, and that it compares caster levels rather than working automatically, which matters way more if you're actually casting the spell than if you're using the Inquisitor ability. Not that there's anything Breach will remove that Dispel Magic will not.

Carsomyr's Dispel Magic, on the other hand, unless you have a mod that changes it, is effectively useless because it dispels at level 1 or 0 or something and will never actually remove anything.

[Cespenar]

Well, being a HUGE fan of Inquisitors myself, I find that even with Carsomyr, I still need Breach and a few other spell removals to be fully able to tackle liches and the like. Dispel Magic doesn't cover all the bases.

I dunno, it did for me. Right up to the level where Anomen started blowing liches up with his turn undead.

[Triaxx]

I thought that it was Demi-Liches that are immune to Breach? Unless they're using Spell Immunity: Abjuration. And Pierce Magic is available in sufficient numbers of scrolls to take out the amount of Demi-Liches you find.

[dragonsamurai77]

I thought that it was Demi-Liches that are immune to Breach? Unless they're using Spell Immunity: Abjuration. And Pierce Magic is available in sufficient numbers of scrolls to take out the amount of Demi-Liches you find.

Liches are immune to all spells of level <=5; demi-liches are immune to all spells of level <=8.

[Kish]

Actually, demiliches are immune to ninth-level spells too. It just never shows up because they're not immune to tenth-level spells, if you have access to ninth-level spells you have access to tenth-level spells, and if you're fighting a demilich and you have ninth and tenth-level spells there's no good reason to not immediately Dragon's Breath them to oblivion.

[Triaxx]

Ah. Didn't realize that. Good thing that Carsomyr still works just fine.

[Varen_Tai]

Carsomyr's Dispel Magic, on the other hand, unless you have a mod that changes it, is effectively useless because it dispels at level 1 or 0 or something and will never actually remove anything.

OH! OK, that is good info. I always wondered why Carsomyr never seemed to Dispel a dang thing. I'll have to get a mod for that...

[Guancyto]

I remember I had fun playing a paladin with Keldorn as a buddy cop movie and Keldorn used the oldschool Carsomyr while the hotshot new cop in town CHARNAME did that whole newfangled dualwielding thing. :smallbiggrin:
This is, in fact, the best way to play. I fired up BG2 for the nostalgia in the past week and the party is:
PC Cavalier (can't use missile weapons, why would you not dual-wield?)
Keldorn (Inquisitors saying "F U" to 80% of the game is pretty accurate, honestly)
Minsc (why would you ever not bring Minsc?)
Jaheira (the requisite wet blanket, someone has to make sure this lot remember to eat and sleep instead of butt kicking all the time)
Imoen (to be Batman. What? Her parents are dead)
Aerie (mass cure/heal + robe of vecna = win!)

I wish I had room for Mazzy as well, since PC Paladin + Keldorn + Mazzy + Minsc = ALL THE JUSTICE.


I'm wary about what passes for "decent NPC mod" after everyone recommended me Chloe, Solaufein and Saerileth. :smalltongue:
Oh god, I'm getting Saerileth flashbacks. TORM IS NOT JESUS AND JESUS IS NOT OKAY WITH LOLI! STOP PLAGIARIZING ROMEO AND JULIET! *curls up into a ball*

With Solaufein the author at least told you at the outset that he's based on Heathcliff (who is a terrible, unlikeable person).

[Kish]

Wes said what now? I remember Wes saying his Solaufein was based on...Wes. Is this a different Solaufein or is Wes weirder than I thought he was?

[Guancyto]

Wes said what now? I remember Wes saying his Solaufein was based on...Wes. Is this a different Solaufein or is Wes weirder than I thought he was?
Huh. I definitely remember someone saying that Solly was styled as "a brooding Heathcliff" but maybe that was just my fevered imagination after trying to get drunk enough to forget the mod npc that started with a C. (Worked, by the way.)

Fake edit: Ah, no, searching for it, the Solaufein readme explicitly calls him out as "an Underdark Heathcliff, brooding and comely." Source. (http://weidu.org/solarom/README-SolaRomance.txt)

I nope'd all the way to Item Upgrades and never looked back.

[Kish]

Ah. Yeah, whatever anyone might say about Solaufein, morally he's certainly nothing like Heathcliff.

If I was still in touch with Wes I would mention to him that at least one person read that part of the description to indicate "horribly selfish and evil." He might want to change it.

[Cespenar]

Tangentially, I'm liking the use of Heathcliff as a sort of alignment anchor. We should scrap the alignment block and replace it with similar examples.

[danzibr]

Carsomyr +6 is nice to swing over the absolute immunity or whatever it is.

[Sylthia]

My last play through had a party of
Sorcerer PC
Imoen
Anomen
Minsc
Mr ToB/Viconia
(Open quest slot, eventually Jan)

My playthroughs always seem to end up with Minsc, Imoen, and Jan. I usually have Viconia, too. Then again this is the first time I've used Anomen after completing his quest.

[Varen_Tai]

So, I am finally into Chapter 4 and I thought I'd pitch out a few musings/thoughts.

I have always been the guy to do *everything* in Chapter 3 that I can before moving on. I know others try to get Imoen as soon as possible. As I am going through Chap 4 with a high level party, I am wondering how other people complete some of these battles in Chap 4 without a fully decked out team. Pit fiend? Beholder? Mind flayer? Greater Mummy? And that's before the last battle with Bodhi!

I am debating, once this run is over, doing another team where I jump to Chap 4 as soon as I can to grab Imoen and then level her up as I do the rest of the game. I am wondering what kinds of strategies you guys would use in Chap 4 & 5 to keep you alive with that drastically lower level party. (+2 mace of Disruption seems really important!)

Also, I realized that I have *never* done a BG2 playthrough without either Keldorn or an Inquisitor PC. MAN, am I dependent on Dispel Magic, True Sight, and Carsomyr! I am tempted to make an Anomen clone for my next game's PC, and then grabbing Valygar, Mazzy, Jan, Edwin, and Korgan (with the mod added so that no one leaves), and then dumping Edwin for Imoen in Chap 4. But killing all those mages without an Inquisitor seems daunting... Suggestions? Should I just grab Keldorn instead of Korgan and do my pally thing anyhow?

I should note that I have also never done a run with all those NPCs I just listed. Anomen, Aerie, Nalia, Yoshimo, and Minsc have been my go-tos for years, but I am really interested to see the banter between those other 5.

Also! I am enjoying my run with Inquisitor PC, Minsc, Viccy, Keto (used Shadowkeep to up her stats and make her a jester - LOVE the jester song!), Nalia, and Kelsey. Mmmm, mmm, mm, love me a sorc! Being able to toss around crazy numbers of Breach, Fireball, Acid Arrow, etc is just awesome.

[Winthur]

Pit fiend?
Protection against Evil, 3 meter version is a must have so that you have ample time to do stuff. In general I always just brute forced them with some buff help - Haste et cetera. If they're of the variety that's immune to magic weapons up to a certain enhancement, then early +3 weapons are Flail of Ages, Lilarcor, Celestial Fury, Azure Edge that you can get from Bernard after killing Lehtinan and installing Hendak, amongst others. Also, Melf's Minute Meteors count as +4 weapons or even +5 weapons AFAIK, so they'll slowly but steadily kill everything.


Beholder?
An easy way to do Unseeing Eye as your very first quest is to spam Animate Dead then send someone invisible (preferrably the Cleric himself with the Sanctuary spell) with a squad of them to navigate them. Skeletons murder Gauts and Beholders will take just a while longer to kill. Balduran's Shield (from either Joluv [Copper Coronet] or Deidre [Adventurer's Mart], I keep forgetting which one sells it) makes Beholder encounters extremely easy, and so does the Cloak of Reflection.


Mind flayer?
Not min-maxing your Fighter Bhaalspawn to have 18 in everything and 3 in Intelligence. :smalltongue: Also, Animate Dead comes in handy again, especially the Skeletal Warriors unlocked at level 15. It's preferrable to have summons tank the mind flayers, they're expendable, and in case of skeletons, they can't have their brain sucked. Invisible stalkers supposedly work against Mind flayers, but it's been a while and I can't recall if they do -- but stalkers are pretty good summons on their own. Also, Mordenkainen's sword should do great. Also, try stuff that protects from mind spells - such as the Berserker kit and a bunch of items, as well as Chaotic Commands.


Greater Mummy?
Remove Disease spells and aforementioned +3 weapons. Seriously keep the Flail of Ages, it's one of the best and most versatile weapons in the game, even if nobody specializes in it it still makes a great secondary.



I am debating, once this run is over, doing another team where I jump to Chap 4 as soon as I can to grab Imoen and then level her up as I do the rest of the game. I am wondering what kinds of strategies you guys would use in Chap 4 & 5 to keep you alive with that drastically lower level party. (+2 mace of Disruption seems really important!)

Skip the Underdark. Well, of course not, because you're not a giant doormat. Against Umber Hulks, Death Spell is an easy way to dispose of them. Illithids and Beholders can be painstakingly dealt with using lots of undeads and summons. It's just going to take a bit more patience. Try to get as many good items as possible (Boots of Speed in the spellhold, Lilarcor/Flail of Ages/et cetera), and hoard high level scrolls for tougher encounters.


Also, I realized that I have *never* done a BG2 playthrough without either Keldorn or an Inquisitor PC. MAN, am I dependent on Dispel Magic, True Sight, and Carsomyr! I am tempted to make an Anomen clone for my next game's PC, and then grabbing Valygar, Mazzy, Jan, Edwin, and Korgan (with the mod added so that no one leaves), and then dumping Edwin for Imoen in Chap 4. But killing all those mages without an Inquisitor seems daunting... Suggestions? Should I just grab Keldorn instead of Korgan and do my pally thing anyhow?

Play a full evil party and enjoy the best single-classed characters in the game and arguably the best romance. Korgan, Edwin, Viconia, yourself. If you want more people, there's an old friend to join in ToB and Jan has funny banter with all the evil characters, and Imoen doesn't mind if your reputation goes to 1 and has no conflict with anybody.[/QUOTE]

[Morty]

I think Death Spell also works on Mind Flayers, actually.

[Drasius]

I usually get Imoen straight away and go through the maze without resting, so it can definitely be done.

Party is often

Conjurer
Imoen/Yoshimo
Jahiera
Minsc

and whoever else I feel like grabbing (Viccy and Koveras for redemption warm fuzzies, Mazzy and Valygar for the lulz, Nalia on occasion. Never Jan or Annoyman though. Keldorn very rarely. Edwin/Viccy/Korgan and the Big S for the puppy kicking runs).

Having a PC mage/sorc evens out a lot of battles. Chromatic orb can cause instant death at char lvl 12, petrification at char lvl 10. Feeblemind is an infinite duration stun and only a lvl 5 spell. Greater malaise is a -4 to all enemy saves. Glitterdust is -2 to all saves, not to mention the blind that owns so very hard and is only a lvl 2 spell. Doom is another -2 to saves if your healer knows it.

Stoneskin and mirror image gets you surprisingly far when you need to buy a round or 2 for minsc to chug a healing potion or 2 and Jahiera comes with it a level early. Greater invis gives a -4 to AC. With all the other gear you've got, you can make any fighter type almost unhittable.

Death spell (of which you can grab a scroll before you go too far into the underdark) bypasses the required mind flayers magic resistance and will drop them and their umberhulk bodyguards instantly. Have Minsc tank the mind control with Lilacor.

Greater mummy is vulnerable to fire and is very slow. Kite it with arrows, let it bottle up all the other undead in the hallway and then fireball them. You usually only face either toned down enemies or only a single stronger monster at lower levels, so it's not as impossible as it would seem. There's also no dishonour in scouting out the enemy with your thief and fire-balling them from offscreen when you're a low level party.

Greater wolfwares are death incarnate on a low level party though, they regen too fast to hurt them until you've got a few levels under your belt. Deal with anything else and then focus the crap out of them with everything you've got. Save Jahiera's Heal for this, you'll need it more than against Bhodi.

Bhodi is a pain, but as long as you've got someone to wear the amulet that protects against level drain, it's just a matter of making sure that character keeps her attention. Jahiera is great for this since she can pop Iron skin to buy a couple of rounds to chug potions.

Stocking up on wands (selling them and then buying them back recharges them to full), potions and scrolls and not being afraid to use them is the order of the day. If you're not running a mage in your main party, then Imoen can use up all those scrolls you've been collecting, you can always buy more once you're back to the surface.

I must admit though, I don't do everything in the maze, fighting the book summons just isn't worth it, though if you don't mind resting, then it's reasonably easy.

As to beating mages without using your own? Flail of ages. The elemental effects go through stoneskin and disrupt their casting, and very few casters are immune to acid. Only when you start facing off against Prot. from Magic Weapons do you start having trouble, at which point you're not facing low level enemies anymore. Not to mention it only lasts 4 rounds.

If you've got Imoen though, it just becomes a game of Breach --> Apply Sword to Mage --> Loot Corpse.

Double Ninja'ed!

Please note that death spell only works on the 1 required mind flayer battle (where they teleport in during the cutscene), they'll get their magic resistance against it the rest of the time in the fully patched version. Unsure about mods or unofficial patches.

Oh, and summons, as many as you can manage. If you can sell the wand of lesser conjuration and then buy it back with full charges, that's far more useful than 4 kobolds have any right to be since it buys you about 3 rounds as the powerful monster spends his time turning your 4 hitpoint fodder into chunks.

[Winthur]

I think Death Spell also works on Mind Flayers, actually.

See I can never tell if it does because sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't, so I didn't name it as a consistent means to get Illithids out of the way.

Even if Death Spell isn't the most useful spell ever it just looks so cool.

[Sylthia]

As mentioned many of the fights are somewhat scaled to your party's level. Although I generally do as many side quests as possible before going after Imoen as well.

[Morty]

See I can never tell if it does because sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't, so I didn't name it as a consistent means to get Illithids out of the way.

Even if Death Spell isn't the most useful spell ever it just looks so cool.

It's always worked on the buggers as far as I remember, but I could be wrong. No argument about looking cool, of course - it might only clear out mooks and only a few select dangerous enemy types, but it does so in style.

[messy1349]

using the make-all-your-characters-in-single-player-mode option then shadowkeeper to make them human, this is fun:

me- human multi fighter/thief
gf- human multi mage/cleric

good times :smallbiggrin:

[Winthur]

using the make-all-your-characters-in-single-player-mode option then shadowkeeper to make them human, this is fun:

me- human multi fighter/thief
gf- human multi mage/cleric

good times :smallbiggrin:

Fighter/Mage, Cleric/Thief.
One is an almighty spellsword combo. The other smites heathens with backstabs.
Together, they fight crime.

Cleric/Thief is so damn good at least in BG1

[Sylthia]

How does multiplayer work for you guys? I never tried it as it didn't seem very conducive to more than one person with the constant pausing needed for spells and such.

[Winthur]

How does multiplayer work for you guys? I never tried it as it didn't seem very conducive to more than one person with the constant pausing needed for spells and such.
I got into Underdark with my group (myself as a Cleric/Ranger and friends as a Swashbuckler and an Invoker) and we're pretty well off.
It works, but of all the LAN simulators like Hamachi, Tunngle and GameRanger, I had the best results with GameRanger (Hamachi plain refuses to work ever since they updated to 2.x.x.x versions, and Tunngle takes more time to configure while GR is just pick up and play).
You can easily restrict certain settings to certain party members. If you want, you can only let your main hero do all the stuff like trading, pausing, and conversing. Or you can allow your mage to pause, et cetera.
It's a blast to play and we haven't had many roadblocks on Insane difficulty.

[Avilan the Grey]

I would never play BG or BG2 without Viconia.
Other than that it is more a matter of the character I cannot stand...

[Triaxx]

I enjoy multi-player when I can get it running. I do prefer to have one person running the fighters while I run the mages. But I find that more than say three people tends to get a little too hairy.

[Kish]

It's always worked on the buggers as far as I remember, but I could be wrong. No argument about looking cool, of course - it might only clear out mooks and only a few select dangerous enemy types, but it does so in style.
Death Spell doesn't ignore magic resistance, so the only mind flayers it's reliable against are the few who, for whatever reason, don't have magic resistance.

Amusingly, it will one-shot the entire group you rescue Phaere from, illithid and umber hulks alike. (As Drasius mentioned.)

using the make-all-your-characters-in-single-player-mode option then shadowkeeper to make them human, this is fun:

me- human multi fighter/thief
gf- human multi mage/cleric

good times :smallbiggrin:
Why make them human?

(There are no level limitations in BG*, if that's what you're thinking.)

[Winthur]

I would never play BG or BG2 without Viconia.
Other than that it is more a matter of the character I cannot stand...

It's a shame, no? The best cleric in the game (by the virtue of also having outstanding physical stats and a Fighter/Cleric dual combo letting him +++++ a blunt weapon) is an annoying upper class twit.

[danzibr]

Hmm. Multiplayer would be fun. But *no pausing*.

Extra challenge.

[messy1349]

Why make them human?

because me and gf are human. :smallbiggrin:

[Sylthia]

because me and gf are human. :smallbiggrin:

Once you go dwarf you can't get enorf.

[Triaxx]

I've found I can only get away with no-pausing in LAN games. Any more distance and lag ruins the fun.

[Sylthia]

I've found I can only get away with no-pausing in LAN games. Any more distance and lag ruins the fun.

I think I'm too much of a control freak in BG to forgo pausing completely.