[3.5] orbital bombardment

[TheMooch]

I had read a post a long time ago on how you could craft and use an orbital bombardment platform but now I can't find it. So how would you make one?

I figure that there are few main components.The first is getting it in orbit and this is rather easy you can simply teleport it up there. The second is ammunition this is pretty easy as well with an auto resetting trap of major creation to craft boulders. The part I'm having issues with is triggering and targeting.

So playground any ideas?

[CyberThread]

Air in a bottle,endure elemtns, and hulking hurler; is the cheapest method. Then craft a portal from forgotten realms spell list' an boom , ready to go.

[Snowbluff]

You just teleport into orbit with a collection of tungsten rods...

I am not sure if air in a bottle would protect you from the vacuum of space. Endure Elements has a downwards limit on temperature resistance. I suggest PAO or Shapechanging into a construct.

For targeting, use Scry for finding a target square. Seeking ammunition would be ideal, if you can manage. Range is a major issue, since you would probably have to be able to hit from 63+ miles.

[Werephilosopher]

The first is getting it in orbit and this is rather easy you can simply teleport it up there. The second is ammunition this is pretty easy as well with an auto resetting trap of major creation to craft boulders.

Not really. There's a chance you'll end up outside the area you can work in, and either not be high enough or so high you escape the planet's gravity completely. Even if you use greater teleport to hit the exact height you need, you still need to be moving horizontally at incredibly high speeds if you want to stay up- which of course messes up your targeting, because if you miss your window of opportunity to bombard something you'll have to wait until you orbit the planet again. If your target is completely off your normal trajectory, it may take multiple orbits to adjust. And even if you manage to get past all that, chances are good that physical objects you fire will just burn up as they fall.

[Snowbluff]

chances are good that physical objects you fire will just burn up as they fall.

This is why I suggest tungsten rods. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment)

[VoxRationis]

Few effects available through simple spells give enough change in momentum that the ammunition would not simply orbit the planet as well, if we assume that your platform has a stable orbit.
I suppose, depending on your reading of the spell, dimension door might do the trick.

[torrasque666]

For ammo, use Iron Golems. They'll actually heal while falling due to the burn.

[VoxRationis]

Heal from what? They're not going to take damage, if they're fire-immune, until after all the burn happens, when they hit the ground.

[The Glyphstone]

Heal from what? They're not going to take damage, if they're fire-immune, until after all the burn happens, when they hit the ground.

That still leaves an iron golem with anywhere from 9-100 HP (average 64) left to finish off the survivors of your bombardment. And it's more stylish than plain metal rods (though more expensive if you're using Major Creation+Fabricate to get your ammo).

[Snowbluff]

I am not sure Iron wouldn't degrade from re-entry. It's melting point is much lower than tungsten. It weighs less than the suggested, 9 ton tungsten rod.

[Larkas]

Eh, orbital bombardment would be nothing to write home about in 3.5. The maximum damage a falling object ever inflicts is 20d6, and only if it is a direct hit. You can do that much damage to someone much more efficiently by using other spells. If you want something to do specifically with falling damage, reverse gravity is a thing.

...What? You didn't expect the system to properly model such massive and/or aerodynamic objects (such as tungesten rods) falling from such an extreme distance, right?

[squiggit]

I am not sure Iron wouldn't degrade from re-entry. It's melting point is much lower than tungsten. It weighs less than the suggested, 9 ton tungsten rod.

Just get something with a high resistance or fire immunity. Pretty sure I remember reading that it's 2d6 fire damage per round.

[Snowbluff]

Well, physics will still kill anything that isn't immune to friction, so smaller, carbon-carbon coated tungsten rods would also be more efficient.

EDIT: Ninjaed. AFACT there are no rules for reentry.

[squiggit]

Closest I can find is an epic teleportation spell that says you take 2d6 fire and/or cold damage per round while in space. So yeah, no actual rules.

[Snowbluff]

Closest I can find is an epic teleportation spell that says you take 2d6 fire and/or cold damage per round while in space. So yeah, no actual rules.

:s

How does that work? I wonder if it mean you only take the damage while teleporting with that spell. I'll have to read it. :smalltongue:

[Larkas]

:s

How does that work? I wonder if it mean you only take the damage while teleporting with that spell. I'll have to read it. :smalltongue:

He must be talking about nailed to the sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm).

[Snowbluff]

He must be talking about nailed to the sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm).

Oh, sweet. This can be used to orbit the platform. Why didn't you mention this earlier? An object's hardness should keep it from being destroyed.

[Larkas]

Oh, sweet. This can be used to orbit the platform. Why didn't you mention this earlier?

Because it's an epic spell? :smalltongue: Regardless, this doesn't change the upper limit on damage by falling objects. Besides, note that it doesn't talk about damage by reentry at all, but about the conditions in space, which can be scorchingly hot or freezingly cold.

[Snowbluff]

Because it's an epic spell? :smalltongue: Larkas, how is that supposed to stop ME?


Regardless, this doesn't change the upper limit on damage by falling objects. Besides, note that it doesn't talk about damage by reentry at all, but about the conditions in space, which can be scorchingly hot or freezingly cold.

Which is why we using crowbar sized rods, and use a material that would suffice in real life. We just drop them by the bucket. :smallsmile:

Since the objects are orbiting, a full sized rod would not be simply falling down (technically), and would deal more damage with it's orbital momentum.

[Larkas]

Larkas, how is that supposed to stop ME?

Point taken :smallbiggrin:


Which is why we using crowbar sized rods, and use a material that would suffice in real life. We just drop them by the bucket. :smallsmile:

Since the objects are orbiting, a full sized rod would not be simply falling down (technically), and would deal more damage with it's orbital momentum.

Hmmmm, that makes sense. Hitting the intended creature, however, would be very difficult with nailed to the sky. Reverse gravity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reverseGravity.htm) might simply be easier and cheaper to use, specially because you can set it up as a trap. Reverse the gravity in a room without a roof that is filled with crowbar-sized rods, wait for the spell to expire and lure the target into the room. Fun times! :smallbiggrin:

[Vhaidara]

My personal favorite orbital strike cannon is a Dungeoncrashing Ubercharger that has an item that casts Heal on him whenever he takes falling damage and an item of at-will quickened Teleport.

You teleport up, come crashing down and beat them into the ground with like 7 attacks (Pounce+Knockback+Shock Trooper+Haste+Natural Weapons), all of which bull rush them into the ground for Dungeoncrash damage.

Then you take fall damage (max 120), get Heal triggered (heals 150), and free action Teleport back to orbit.

[Snowbluff]

Hmmmm, that makes sense. Hitting the intended creature, however, would be very difficult with nailed to the sky. Reverse gravity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reverseGravity.htm) might simply be easier and cheaper to use, specially because you can set it up as a trap. Reverse the gravity in a room without a roof that is filled with crowbar-sized rods, wait for the spell to expire and lure the target into the room. Fun times! :smallbiggrin:

You can dismiss the spell with a readied action.

[Larkas]

You can dismiss the spell with a readied action.

Yeah, that works too! :smallbiggrin:

[Slipperychicken]

This would probably be adjudicated as "aerial bombardment" from Heroes of Battle page 68.

Basically, you're rolling a ranged attack against AC 5 (to hit the square), taking -4 for using an improvised weapon, and also including penalties from range increments (range increment on a thrown improvised weapon is 10ft, and you take -2 per range increment... I think it's reasonable here to ignore the maximum of 5 range increments). You also eat penalties for having maneuverability less than good.

Also, the target still gets a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid the bombardment's damage.


As for a platform, I recall that a +1 Flying Sizing Riverine Tower Shield is basically a giant forcewall, which you can set horizontally and stack heavy things on top of, then have it dump them on enemies. Almost guaranteed to miss, but it's cool for stationary targets.

[Jormengand]

Eh, orbital bombardment would be nothing to write home about in 3.5. The maximum damage a falling object ever inflicts is 20d6, and only if it is a direct hit.

That's the maximum damage from height. There is no maximum damage from weight.

Speaking of which, using Telekinesis or something of that calibre to drag down something with a large mass but no weight seems like fair play to me...

[Slipperychicken]

That's the maximum damage from height. There is no maximum damage from weight.


Rules compendium changed it so 20d6 caps the total. Page 52, if you feel like checking.

[Azoth]

Why not just use force projectiles? They won't burn up in the atmosphere, and there are a few ways to generate them. There is an archer PRC (can't remember if deep wood or peerless) that removes maximum range increment. So a sufficinetly buffed archer or soulbow with a force bow could rain down death from the heavens. Just need to give him a way to spot enemies.

[Jormengand]

Rules compendium changed it so 20d6 caps the total. Page 52, if you feel like checking.

Psh. Makes far more sense to cap the height damage (This little thing we call terminal velocity) and not the weight damage (This little thing we call ten million tons of frickin' rock)


Just need to give him a way to spot enemies.

Send up a truenamer 14 to give him unlimited blindsight and ignore concealment?

[Slipperychicken]

Psh. Makes far more sense to cap the height damage (This little thing we call terminal velocity) and not the weight damage (This little thing we call ten million tons of frickin' rock)

I totally agree with you there. I think it's clear that the RC ruling was intended to curtail abuse, but I don't think that was a worthwhile tradeoff.

[Big Fau]

For ammo, use Iron Golems. They'll actually heal while falling due to the burn.

Iron Golems you say? (http://youtu.be/z5sqPxbLmIU?t=2m55s)

[Slipperychicken]

Iron Golems you say? (http://youtu.be/z5sqPxbLmIU?t=2m55s)

This looks like a good time to try out those [VIDEO] tags. I don't know how to get it to start from 2:55 though.

[TheMooch]

I was hoping to set this up so I out anyone else didn't have to be in orbit to trigger it. Ideally I would somehow flag or mark a target and then this would bring the pain.

Also 20d6 isn't a lot but there's nothing to say that I can't drop 5 or 10 projectiles in one go

[Larkas]

This looks like a good time to try out those [VIDEO] tags. I don't know how to get it to start from 2:55 though.

It would be even better if we could trim it like this (https://www.youtube.com/v/z5sqPxbLmIU?start=175&end=179&version=3). It doesn't seem to be possible, though. :smallfrown:

[tuesdayscoming]

I created a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?188364-3-5-Build-Challenge-the-Satellite) on roughly this subject a while back.

It might have some information that would you be useful for you. Hope it helps :)

[Captnq]

Well, technically, the weight doesn't matter, just height. Enough height and you can have anything So...

One pound of lead costs about 1 dollar. The conversion of 1 dollar to 1 copper is about right, so we can buy 50 1 pound lead pellets for 1 gold.

Get 1,000,000 gp.
Buy 50,000,000 1 lbs lead pellets
Fly up to orbit.
Scatter them like seeds.
Watch as "pennies from heaven" fall and impact for 20d6 points of damage, from each lead pellet.
See houses EXPLODE as the damage overwhelms the hardness and the resulting damage causes a 5'x5' square to shatter with each pellet.

Cause mass destruction over an area that is 1.79 square miles, so if you stick to a 1 mile radius circle, you should have enough pellets to hit each 5'x5' square two or three times.

Apocalypse from the sky would work much better.

[Zetapup]

I was hoping to set this up so I out anyone else didn't have to be in orbit to trigger it. Ideally I would somehow flag or mark a target and then this would bring the pain.

Also 20d6 isn't a lot but there's nothing to say that I can't drop 5 or 10 projectiles in one go

You could use ring gates for that- there's a limit of 100 pounds per day, but even if you're putting in 1 pound items at the smallest, that's still 2000d6 potential damage per day. Teleportation circles might also be useful, but I'm AFAB and can't recall the exact wording of the spell.

[Slipperychicken]

Well, technically, the weight doesn't matter, just height. Enough height and you can have anything So...

One pound of lead costs about 1 dollar. The conversion of 1 dollar to 1 copper is about right, so we can buy 50 1 pound lead pellets for 1 gold.


You could simply cast Wall of Iron, melt it down, and have someone craft it into ~1lb pieces.