What would Shojo want for Miko?

[Tilian]

Defiant smirk right before his death notwithstanding, Shojo was the closest thing to a father-figure Miko had after being orphaned. We know he chose her to enter a life of service by his side and that Shojo was generally a good guy who did what he had to do for the good of Azure City. IIRC, Shojo told her she was special, but what did he intend by this?

My question is, did Shojo see her primarily as a tool to get things done or as something more? Could he be counted on to lend any assistance from the afterlife a-la Eugene to aid her moving towards redemption(directly or through others), or does he seem more likely to have written her off with betrayal and apparent divorce with reality?

[BrokenButterfly]

I think that he saw Miko as a niece, since he seemed to be on the same level of rapport with Hinjo, his blood nephew. I definitely think that Miko meant more to him than just some vassal to get the job done, and so it must have hurt him to deceive Miko in the way he did.
I feel that he will appear to Miko when she is at her lowest ebb to put her back on the right track to redemption or something more important, such as saving Azure City.

[the_tick_rules]

Well he'd want someone to try and help her. But since she is currently a threat he'd want her to be secured.

[Krellen]

Miko was a tool to Shojo. He saw someone he could twist to be what he needed, so he twisted. Basically, he needed a Paladin that wouldn't question him even when the mission wasn't strictly good, and that's what Miko was.

I see no evidence whatsoever that he had a fondness for her, certainly not to the same extent he did for Hinjo.

[chibibar]

Miko was a tool to Shojo. He saw someone he could twist to be what he needed, so he twisted. Basically, he needed a Paladin that wouldn't question him even when the mission wasn't strictly good, and that's what Miko was.

I see no evidence whatsoever that he had a fondness for her, certainly not to the same extent he did for Hinjo.

I don't think that is the case. I posted this in the other thread but I'll retype it instead of cut-and-paste (since there are some changes)

Miko has a strong conviction. She has a very very strong belief and Shojo sees that Miko can be a great Paladin someday. She is a good paladin (until recent events) she cannot be sway by evil except PRIDE. that is the problem with her. If Miko posses some Humility then Miko would be a wise paladin and a force to be reckon with, but alas, perfect character type is not as much fun to read :)

[Tilian]

Miko was a tool to Shojo. He saw someone he could twist to be what he needed, so he twisted. Basically, he needed a Paladin that wouldn't question him even when the mission wasn't strictly good, and that's what Miko was.

I see no evidence whatsoever that he had a fondness for her, certainly not to the same extent he did for Hinjo.

To do such a thing so coldly is a determinedly neutral thing to do though. I was thinking that if she was more of a tool to him, it was mixed with genuine thoughts of charity.

We're relatively certain Shojo was at least Good, right? Manipulating the Guard I can see justified easily, but intentionally warping a child's very being, much less so.

[Krellen]

Just because you're Good doesn't mean you always do the right thing. Look at Roy. Or Miko. Before her fall, that is.

[Shattersnap]

...death? Oh, wait- that's what I want. A trial and THEN death?

But seriously, a trial. He'd probably want to see her redeem herself as well, I think he really thought of her as a daughter. Shojo does not seem like the kind of guy that would use a child as a tool.

[Tilian]

Just because you're Good doesn't mean you always do the right thing. Look at Roy. Or Miko. Before her fall, that is.

True, but with Roy and Miko their lapses in judgement tend to be due to short-sighted momentary needs or in the heat of the moment. For Shojo to take such a route would require willing dedication of time and effort.

I'm not saying it would necessarily bar him from being good, but it certainly would put a gray mark on his record to just use her and toss her away.

[Demented]

"It appears not everyone agrees with your analysis."
If he cares at all about her wellbeing, he has a hell of a way to show it.

[TinSoldier]

Miko was a tool to Shojo. He saw someone he could twist to be what he needed, so he twisted. Basically, he needed a Paladin that wouldn't question him even when the mission wasn't strictly good, and that's what Miko was.

I see no evidence whatsoever that he had a fondness for her, certainly not to the same extent he did for Hinjo.I don't see that he had any more fondness for Hinjo than for anyone else.

That being said, I certainly hope that he saw himself as the father figure that Miko may have seen him as. Hopefully his ghost will haunt her and help her see things differently, and annoy the heck out of her like Eugene does to Roy.

[theKOT]

Let's not forget Shojo was "concerned about her condition" but never acted. He was fully aware of her developing problems but simply sent her away on the long solo missions to get rid of her. I do think he felt a little guilty about it, but his delinquency cost him dearly and, IMO, demonstrates his lack of caring.

[Tilian]

That being said, I certainly hope that he saw himself as the father figure that Miko may have seen him as. Hopefully his ghost will haunt her and help her see things differently, and annoy the heck out of her like Eugene does to Roy.


I really hope something like this comes about. If anything is going to cause him unrest, it should be the one big mess he's left behind that he could actually consider himself at fault for, assuming he realizes Miko's upbringing evidently wasn't the healthiest.

Note: I don't blame Shojo for Miko's breakdown and actions afterwards, but I do think he handled her wrong, either because he genuinely didn't know how or because his hands were tied rather than just negligence(I can easily see how some may come to that conclusion, but I can't buy Shojo being that cold.).

[Morty]

Let's not forget Shojo was "concerned about her condition" but never acted. He was fully aware of her developing problems but simply sent her away on the long solo missions to get rid of her. I do think he felt a little guilty about it, but his delinquency cost him dearly and, IMO, demonstrates his lack of caring.

'Lack of caring' or more likely 'not having time to take care of one paladin's emotional problems. I prefer the latter, myself.

[theKOT]

'Lack of caring' or more likely 'not having time to take care of one paladin's emotional problems. I prefer the latter, myself.
Having seen what he saw when she almost killed Belkar, Shojo had the responsibility to act somehow. But no, he sends her away ASAP. Since "one paladin" was at a high level, Shojo was pretty much obligated to do something. But just like everyone else in the Sapphire guard, he simply got her out of the way so he wouldn't have to deal with her. He held no emotions for Miko, but if he did he certainly never displayed them.

[Igan]

A ghostly Shojo visiting Miko? Heck yeah!
And Shojo could play canasta with Eugene and the archons when he's not dropping in on Miko to offer some criticism...
Actually, how would Miko take being visited by Shojo? If she's in jail, she'd be unarmed, and hurting a ghost is a little on the tricky side. Not to mention the impracticality of trying to kill someone who's already dead.
She might be forced to listen to him by dint of being unable to get him away.
Shojo could talk at her about her flaws until she starts listening.
That'd make a pretty darn good comic, with much potential for sarcasm and good lines...

[BrokenButterfly]

I have always felt that Miko and Shojo shared a bond for some reason, in the same way that he shared a bond with Hinjo. Shojo had a lot on his plate at the time of Miko's breakdown, and I think he assumed that Miko's goodness and sense of law would prevent her actually acting as rashly as she did, even with her sword brandished in front of him.
Why blame Shojo for inaction, one of Miko's friends should have noticed...oh right...

[theKOT]

I have always felt that Miko and Shojo shared a bond for some reason, in the same way that he shared a bond with Hinjo. Shojo had a lot on his plate at the time of Miko's breakdown, and I think he assumed that Miko's goodness and sense of law would prevent her actually acting as rashly as she did, even with her sword brandished in front of him.
Why blame Shojo for inaction, one of Miko's friends should have noticed...oh right...
But what evidence would suggest any such thing? Shojo and Miko were never shown sharing anything accept a vassal/lord relationship. I don't know what gave you the impression Shojo had any affection for Miko.

[Bluelantern]

He probably saw her as not as a "tool'", but a person who was very... dedicated to her job as paladin, I think it is dificult to he truly like her, he probably had pity on her. =P

[SteveMB]

Let's not forget Shojo was "concerned about her condition" but never acted. He was fully aware of her developing problems but simply sent her away on the long solo missions to get rid of her.
Do we know that Shojo was in fact aware of, much less concerned about, her psychological coondition? He might have been simply trying to fast-talk himself out of a corner (which would be right in character for him, IMO).

[theKOT]

Do we know that Shojo was in fact aware of, much less concerned about, her psychological coondition? He might have been simply trying to fast-talk himself out of a corner (which would be right in character for him, IMO).
Well I don't see how that would help him out at all. Why would saying that give Miko pause at all? Besides, he was pretty blind if he didn't notice that she had something wrong after the court scene.

[Elliot Kane]

I certainly got the impression from the way Shojo reacted to Miko's accusations that he felt fond of her at the least. He seems genuinely distressed, and not in a 'You're accusing ME' kind of way, either.

I think he'd want her to redeem herself.

[slayerx]

Well I don't see how that would help him out at all. Why would saying that give Miko pause at all? Besides, he was pretty blind if he didn't notice that she had something wrong after the court scene.

adding to this. Miko has been working under Shojo for years. Shojo would have to blind to not see that Miko was unstable, and even if he didn't actually see it, he would atleast hear about it from others (unless he's deaf too). I mean, She was his most powerful paladin and out of all your soldiers, the most powerful are the ones are the ones you come to know the most. They are the ones you give the greatest responicbilities too, the ones you talk to the most and watch the most. An unstable paladin in the lower ranks i can understand Shojo overlooking, but definatly not one in the higher ranks.

I kind of agree that Shojo should have done something about Miko sooner, and don't really see much escuse for him not doing so... except for one thing that is... his pretending to be senile. The reason i point this out is that fact that, though poeple will follow his orders, poeple tend not to take him seriously, and thus will follow his orders with a bit of a grudge (like O-chul for example)... Shojo was probably the only person that could have helped Miko and set her right, but since he was "senile" she would never take him seriously enough to properly listen to his advice... she'll always follow his orders (grudgingly), but not his father-like advice

[Iranon]

I think there was at least some fondness between them, evidenced by Miko buying him a souvenir in the dwarven lands. Miko strikes me as the type to not make personal gestures of any kind unless they were.

[Jazzvader]

Just because you're Good doesn't mean you always do the right thing. Look at Roy. Or Miko. Before her fall, that is.

I agree strongly but less about Roy he mainly did the right thing more than the wrong thing.

[Tokeloshe]

While Miko sees herself as very close to Shojo, it is possible that everything Miko saw as being signs of affection, may well have just been Shojo being nice.

Think about this: Shojo is nice to Miko, because nobody else will be. It isn't to mould her into his perfect servant or anything, but because he kind of feels sorry for her, and thinks she needs at least someone on her side.

He tells her she is special with the distinct intention of making her feel better about herself as a child, and she grows up remembering it as being more profound then it was.

So here she is, growing up to be as perfect as possible (Which to her means being a Paladin) and believing she can do it. Believing deeply within herself that Shojo was right when he called her special as a child, believing him because he is the nearest thing to a friend she has ever had.

Then she finds out he was lying to every paladin in the city, in order to bring a group of what she believes to be miscreants, to her city. She finds out that he was lying to her.

Meanwhile from his point of view, he was, the only guy who had ever been nice to her and here she is accusing him of treason - and cutting him in two. Needless to say he was justified in being a little bit annoyed at the end of it.