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View Full Version : Optimization How much multiclass is too much multiclass? A build help.



Machadawg
2014-04-10, 08:27 PM
I want this character to take at least three levels of swashbuckler and I am undecided on how many levels of wizard. I want this guy to keep his wizardry secret and do a little bit of everything sneaking, frontline fighting, utility casting, and be useful in RP situations. I know this sounds like a bard but I don't like the feel of playing instruments. The character background has him being an on the run noble with a unique fighting style and plenty of experience in political intrigue.

The stats in no particular order are:
15
15
17
18
14
12

What other classes(prestige or otherwise), feats, or completely different build ideas would fit this?

Thanks

HunterOfJello
2014-04-10, 09:19 PM
So you want to play a bard that doesn't sing?

Beguiler with levels in Unseen Seer will probably work nicely.

Duskblade can also work.

Chronos
2014-04-10, 09:29 PM
I know this sounds like a bard but I don't like the feel of playing instruments.
So don't play instruments. A bard needs a perform skill, but you can just use dance (which you incorporate into your fighting style), or oratory (to give inspiring speeches), or comedy (which takes a rather slapstick turn sometimes), or whatever other style of performance you prefer. All you're missing out on by not playing an instrument is an easy +2 from masterwork, but +2 isn't that big a deal. Meanwhile, it also means you can free up your hands.

Machadawg
2014-04-10, 09:33 PM
Yeah that makes good sense as well. But I'd really like to have more spells. And be mostly Int. based.

HunterOfJello
2014-04-10, 09:49 PM
Yeah that makes good sense as well. But I'd really like to have more spells. And be mostly Int. based.

I've always thought that the idea of a Bard who uses the Perform (Weapondrill) skill as a modified form of taichi could be really cool. You move through the movements of practicing fighting while actually fighting.

There are prestige classes for bard that improve their number of spells know and spells per day. The two I would go with are Lyric Thaumaturge from Compelte Mage and later Sublime Chord from Complete Arcane. Once you've taken the Melodic Casting feat you can both sing and cast spells at the same time which will help a lot.

Bards also have access to some amazing wands from the bard spell list. If you make use of all your available tools as a bard, then you can really go far.

Xerlith
2014-04-11, 03:33 AM
So... A Swashbuckler3/Bardic Sage (UA Variant) with Perform (Comedy) or Perform (Pun) and fluffing his Inspire Courage as whipping out Elan-style puns mid-combat?

Urpriest
2014-04-11, 09:27 AM
Yeah that makes good sense as well. But I'd really like to have more spells. And be mostly Int. based.

You won't really have more spells in a meaningful sense until the later levels, though. A Swashbuckler 3/Wizard X has first level spells when a Bard has second level spells, second level spells when a Bard has third level spells, and finally catches up when the Bard gets fourth level spells at 10th level, halfway through the game. And if the Bard takes the right prestige class (Sublime Chord), then they have the advantage after that as well.

Now, if you just want your character to be Int-based, that's fine. Honestly, Swashbuckler isn't the best choice for a melee Wizard, but a Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 4/Abjurant Champion 5 is still a fine character.

WhamBamSam
2014-04-11, 09:31 AM
Factotum 3/Swashbuckler 3/Chameleon 10/Something 4 (Either more Factotum, Warblade, or Swordsage), Swashbuckler 3/Factotum 17, or just straight Factotum 20 might be good options. If you really don't want to go Factotum, then maybe Changeling Rogue 3-4/Swashbuckler 3-4/Chameleon 10/Whatever with Daring Outlaw and maybe the seduction thing for Swashbucklers from this dead levels article (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x).