Making a Transformer and/or Shapeshifter?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically I was looking at the Shapeshift variant of the Druid for a character and I was wondering if there were any other similar classes that were overall more martial based?

One considering I had for this was making the character a Warforged and re-themeing the shapeshifting to be mechanical themed, hence the transformers bit.

[Swok]

Wild shape ranger into shifter has always been my favorite way to make a battle shapeshifter war forged.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Wild shape ranger into shifter has always been my favorite way to make a battle shapeshifter war forged.

Is this just for higher BAB?

I should also highlight I have a preference for those that allow my humanoid physical stats to play a role in the strength of the transformation.

[Reshy]

Druid's the best shapeshifter, they also get one of the best prestige classes for shapeshifting. Planar Shepard is very powerful, so beware that the DM may not let you get away with everything you can potentially do with it. Druid's the best simply because their spellcasting levels stack better than a rangers or other classes.

[Gwazi Magnum]

It just dawned on me, what if I only took 1 level of Druid for the first shapeshift ability and then took more martial based classes?


Druid's the best shapeshifter, they also get one of the best prestige classes for shapeshifting. Planar Shepard is very powerful, so beware that the DM may not let you get away with everything you can potentially do with it. Druid's the best simply because their spellcasting levels stack better than a rangers or other classes.

That Prestige class is for wild shape though, not shape shifting.

[Meowmasterish]

You can take a look at Gazebo Jones. (Google it.) That's fairly close to what you're probably looking for.

[Red Fel]

Kind of surprised nobody has mentioned Warshaper. Once you've gotten your source of shapeshifting, Warshaper is a pretty fun choice. It gives you total immunity to crits and stuns (as opposed to just the partial immunity from Warforged), the ability to grow and reshape natural weapons, boosts to Str and Con, a bonus 5' reach, and fast healing and instantaneous Concentration-based healing (which is priceless for Warforged). The capstone is not as necessary, but could be useful.

Also, seconding Gazebo Jones and his wacky hijinks.

If you're not married to the idea of a Warforged, consider a Shifter, and PrC into Moonspeaker. Basically, it augments your natural Shifter abilities, and gives you Wild Shape, and gives you casting progression and some really potent summons.

[Larkas]

Hmmm, my favorite shapeshifter has got to be Wild Shape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10/ Warshaper 5.


It just dawned on me, what if I only took 1 level of Druid for the first shapeshift ability and then took more martial based classes?

That wouldn't work, the first level you get wild shape at is 5.

[lytokk]

Primeval is a class that builds on the base forms physical stats as opposed to replacing them. Using the class I was able to make the most of the original dinobots. Also, the class's wild shape is based on polymorph, which is based on alter self as opposed to alternate form, so go Dragonborn and get the breath weapon. The catch on primeval though, is that you only get 1 form, it has to be large or smaller, and some sort of prehistoric creature, and 8 hd or less. With an understanding DM, you could probably refluff it into some sort of alternate form Ballista or something, to create the urban druid transformation you wanted.

Primeval's in Frostburne btw.

[Telonius]

Warforged Cleric1/Druid3/Warlock1/Eldritch Disciple X.
Neutral Evil.
Cleric will get you Turn Undead, which you need for Eldritch Disciple. Worship the Lord of Blades (or Galvatron, your pick really). Druid gets you shapechanging. Warlock gives you the other prereq for Eldritch Disciple, as well as your laser beam (Eldritch Blast). Eldritch Disciple advances both Warlock and a divine class; pick Druid. Get Fell Flight as soon as it's available.

Congratulations, Decepticon! :smallcool:

[Gwazi Magnum]

You can take a look at Gazebo Jones. (Google it.) That's fairly close to what you're probably looking for.

Google didn't give me anything. :/


Kind of surprised nobody has mentioned Warshaper. Once you've gotten your source of shapeshifting, Warshaper is a pretty fun choice. It gives you total immunity to crits and stuns (as opposed to just the partial immunity from Warforged), the ability to grow and reshape natural weapons, boosts to Str and Con, a bonus 5' reach, and fast healing and instantaneous Concentration-based healing (which is priceless for Warforged). The capstone is not as necessary, but could be useful.

Also, seconding Gazebo Jones and his wacky hijinks.

If you're not married to the idea of a Warforged, consider a Shifter, and PrC into Moonspeaker. Basically, it augments your natural Shifter abilities, and gives you Wild Shape, and gives you casting progression and some really potent summons.

I can see Warshaper being a fun addition. Thanks for the tip! :)

I've looked at Shifter, it seems underpowered. It's times per day is extremely limited unless if I made all my feats shifter feats. And the bonus from shifting isn't even that big. While shapechanger druid variant gives +8 right off the bat and can be used infinite times per day.


That wouldn't work, the first level you get wild shape at is 5.

Yes it would. I'm using the shape change variant, not wild shape itself. Shape change comes right at level 1.


Primeval is a class that builds on the base forms physical stats as opposed to replacing them. Using the class I was able to make the most of the original dinobots. Also, the class's wild shape is based on polymorph, which is based on alter self as opposed to alternate form, so go Dragonborn and get the breath weapon. The catch on primeval though, is that you only get 1 form, it has to be large or smaller, and some sort of prehistoric creature, and 8 hd or less. With an understanding DM, you could probably refluff it into some sort of alternate form Ballista or something, to create the urban druid transformation you wanted.

Primeval's in Frostburne btw.

Looked at it, my main concern is the limited times per day.


Warforged Cleric1/Druid3/Warlock1/Eldritch Disciple X.
Neutral Evil.
Cleric will get you Turn Undead, which you need for Eldritch Disciple. Worship the Lord of Blades (or Galvatron, your pick really). Druid gets you shapechanging. Warlock gives you the other prereq for Eldritch Disciple, as well as your laser beam (Eldritch Blast). Eldritch Disciple advances both Warlock and a divine class; pick Druid. Get Fell Flight as soon as it's available.

Congratulations, Decepticon! :smallcool:

Looks interesting.
Though I wasn't aiming outright transformer imitation, it was more just a reference to a warforged being able to shapeshift.

[lytokk]

Thats why you enter it via wildshape ranger. the +10 ft base movement is nice, and you get an additional 3 to start out the number of shapes per day. Also, Endurance as a free ranger feat helps you get into the class at level 9. Pick up Extra wild shape and you've got an additional 2 times per day.

[Red Fel]

Google didn't give me anything. :/

Yeah, I tried afterwards. Bunch of links you don't need, but then this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9823824&postcount=132).


I can see Warshaper being a fun addition. Thanks for the tip! :)

I know, right?


I've looked at Shifter, it seems underpowered. It's times per day is extremely limited unless if I made all my feats shifter feats. And the bonus from shifting isn't even that big. While shapechanger druid variant gives +8 right off the bat and can be used infinite times per day.

Ordinarily, you'd be right about Shifter feats. They're underpowered. That's where the Moonspeaker PrC comes in:


You treat item creation, metamagic, and wild feats as shifter feats for the purpose of determining the number of times per day you can use your shifting ability and the ability's duration.
That's right. All item creation, metamagic, and wild feats. Shifter just got a turbo charge.

Not to mention that two of the three Shifter Druid substitution levels are pretty awesome. At Shifter Druid 1, you can replace your Animal Companion with Beast Spirit, which is basically an internal power-up that increases with level. At Shifter Druid 4, you replace Resist Nature's Lure with Reckless Nature, which gives you +2 to initiative and Reflex saves, but -2 to Will saves. Shifter Druid 5 replaces Wild Shape, and is therefore rubbish; but the others are nice. And again, Moonspeaker also gives you Wild Shape progression, so good times there.

[eggynack]

Ordinarily, you'd be right about Shifter feats. They're underpowered. That's where the Moonspeaker PrC comes in:


That's right. All item creation, metamagic, and wild feats. Shifter just got a turbo charge.

Honestly, shifter druids are frigging amazing for most of the reasons you've listed, but I don't even think that fast feat access makes those feats worthwhile, even extra shifter trait. Druid feats are just too good for them to be viable.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Thats why you enter it via wildshape ranger. the +10 ft base movement is nice, and you get an additional 3 to start out the number of shapes per day. Also, Endurance as a free ranger feat helps you get into the class at level 9. Pick up Extra wild shape and you've got an additional 2 times per day.

How does gaining whildshape as a ranger give +3?
Don't I still need to wait till level 5 to get 1 use of it?



Yeah, I tried afterwards. Bunch of links you don't need, but then this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9823824&postcount=132).

Thanks! :)

I'll go look at it now.


Ordinarily, you'd be right about Shifter feats. They're underpowered. That's where the Moonspeaker PrC comes in:

That's right. All item creation, metamagic, and wild feats. Shifter just got a turbo charge.

Not to mention that two of the three Shifter Druid substitution levels are pretty awesome. At Shifter Druid 1, you can replace your Animal Companion with Beast Spirit, which is basically an internal power-up that increases with level. At Shifter Druid 4, you replace Resist Nature's Lure with Reckless Nature, which gives you +2 to initiative and Reflex saves, but -2 to Will saves. Shifter Druid 5 replaces Wild Shape, and is therefore rubbish; but the others are nice. And again, Moonspeaker also gives you Wild Shape progression, so good times there.

That's still 2 feats = 1 extra usage though... where without massive chaos shuffle shenanigans happening I'm still going to be pretty low on daily uses.

[lytokk]

Wildshape ranger gives the same wildshape progression as if you had taken levels in druid. A primeval can use any wildshape uses gained from any other class to change into their primeval form. 8 levels of wildshape ranger nets you endurance, a full BAB, all the class skills you need to qualify for Primeval, and the number of wildshapes per day as a level 8 druid, which is 3.

[Red Fel]

Honestly, shifter druids are frigging amazing for most of the reasons you've listed, but I don't even think that fast feat access makes those feats worthwhile, even extra shifter trait. Druid feats are just too good for them to be viable.


That's still 2 feats = 1 extra usage though... where without massive chaos shuffle shenanigans happening I'm still going to be pretty low on daily uses.

All valid. Which is why you don't look at Shifting (and Shifter feats) as a focus, but rather as a bonus.

Think about it this way. On its face, you get one use of Shifting per day, lasting for a few rounds and granting you +2 to an ability score. Let's assume you (wisely) take no Shifter feats. However, since you're a Druid, let's assume you take some metamagic or wild feats (some Wild Shape feats are tagged "wild," as I recall). Then you take Moonspeaker. Suddenly, in addition to the ordinary bonus of those feats you wanted to take anyway, you also gain increased use and extended duration of your Shifting. Even if you don't go that route, at Moonspeaker 6, you gain your Shifting ability bonus at all times; at Moonspeaker 9, you get an extra trait even if you wouldn't qualify for the feat; at Moonspeaker 11, you gain the other Shifting benefits at all times. So even if you never Shift, and never take any feats that qualify as Shifter feats thanks to Moonspeaker Shifting, you now enjoy those bonuses anyway.

I agree that Shifter feats, even with this boost, are underpowered. That's why you don't look at them as the focus of a build, but rather as delightful treats that pop up later on.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Wildshape ranger gives the same wildshape progression as if you had taken levels in druid. A primeval can use any wildshape uses gained from any other class to change into their primeval form. 8 levels of wildshape ranger nets you endurance, a full BAB, all the class skills you need to qualify for Primeval, and the number of wildshapes per day as a level 8 druid, which is 3.

Alright, but I couldn't find anything under Primeval suggesting it stacks with wildshape. Only that the abilities are similar.


All valid. Which is why you don't look at Shifting (and Shifter feats) as a focus, but rather as a bonus.

Think about it this way. On its face, you get one use of Shifting per day, lasting for a few rounds and granting you +2 to an ability score. Let's assume you (wisely) take no Shifter feats. However, since you're a Druid, let's assume you take some metamagic or wild feats (some Wild Shape feats are tagged "wild," as I recall). Then you take Moonspeaker. Suddenly, in addition to the ordinary bonus of those feats you wanted to take anyway, you also gain increased use and extended duration of your Shifting. Even if you don't go that route, at Moonspeaker 6, you gain your Shifting ability bonus at all times; at Moonspeaker 9, you get an extra trait even if you wouldn't qualify for the feat; at Moonspeaker 11, you gain the other Shifting benefits at all times. So even if you never Shift, and never take any feats that qualify as Shifter feats thanks to Moonspeaker Shifting, you now enjoy those bonuses anyway.

I agree that Shifter feats, even with this boost, are underpowered. That's why you don't look at them as the focus of a build, but rather as delightful treats that pop up later on.

Ok, but I want the focus of the build to be shape shifting. Not a side thing.

[Red Fel]

Ok, but I want the focus of the build to be shape shifting. Not a side thing.

Which is why you have Wild Shape from Druid and Moonspeaker. Like I said, Shifter Shifting functions as a bonus, not a focus; Wild Shape can still be the focus.

[lytokk]

Alright, but I couldn't find anything under Primeval suggesting it stacks with wildshape. Only that the abilities are similar.


Its the last two sentences describing Primeval Form. It doesn't stack necessarily, but so long as you have the ability to wild shape from other class levels, you can use i to enter primeval form. It doesn't extend the duration of the form however, so you only get 1 minute per primeval level.

But, at level 1 primeval, with wildshape ranger, you get 4 uses at 1 minute apiece, which should do well for a standard encounter day, barring serious dungeon delving. But, because the ability scores stack instead of being replaced, your normal combat stats should suffice most of the time. The warforged I currently have uses an axe and shield combo, mithril body and more than enough HP to soak a lot. 20 con really helps with that.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Which is why you have Wild Shape from Druid and Moonspeaker. Like I said, Shifter Shifting functions as a bonus, not a focus; Wild Shape can still be the focus.

True, but the limited times per day element of that still bugs me.
Plus if I were to shape shift I'd want my physical scores to play a roll in it and not simply be replaced.

[eggynack]

Think about it this way. On its face, you get one use of Shifting per day, lasting for a few rounds and granting you +2 to an ability score. Let's assume you (wisely) take no Shifter feats. However, since you're a Druid, let's assume you take some metamagic or wild feats (some Wild Shape feats are tagged "wild," as I recall). Then you take Moonspeaker. Suddenly, in addition to the ordinary bonus of those feats you wanted to take anyway, you also gain increased use and extended duration of your Shifting. Even if you don't go that route, at Moonspeaker 6, you gain your Shifting ability bonus at all times; at Moonspeaker 9, you get an extra trait even if you wouldn't qualify for the feat; at Moonspeaker 11, you gain the other Shifting benefits at all times. So even if you never Shift, and never take any feats that qualify as Shifter feats thanks to Moonspeaker Shifting, you now enjoy those bonuses anyway.

I agree that Shifter feats, even with this boost, are underpowered. That's why you don't look at them as the focus of a build, but rather as delightful treats that pop up later on.
Oh, yeah, that's definitely true. It's a nifty little ability. There's one issue with it though, in that pretty much no wild feats are good, and that item creation and metamagic feats are reasonable, but not particularly amazing. I could see picking up maybe two or three shifter feats through the ability.

As for uses/day on wild shape, honestly, meh. Wild shape is just so much better than shapeshift, on just about every level, even if you can't constantly be shifting about. I guess there are some thematic elements to consider, but if you want a build around ability, wild shape is the one to use. Wild shape has feats, and substitution levels, and items, and all kindsa other stuff you can use to improve it. Shapeshift does not. It's a problem I often run up against when providing advice for druids with that ACF, because there's just not much room for optimization.

[jedipotter]

For a Transformer, you want a Warforged Thrall of Jubillix. You get alter self and polymorph self....at will. And as a Warforged you can change into any construct....like any animated object.

[Larkas]

Yes it would. I'm using the shape change variant, not wild shape itself. Shape change comes right at level 1.

Oh. OOOOOH! That variant is arguably also compatible with Wild Shape Ranger. :smallbiggrin:

[Xaktsaroth]

Last time I did it, I went Shifter Ranger 5/Renegade Mastermaker 10/Weretouched Master 5.

More of a late level build, but the players were 16 at the time, so it worked well. :D