Hideous Blow 3.5 Attack of Opportunity discrepancy

[zero32483]

Apologies if this is rehashing an old debate, but I had a hard time finding anything specific on this searching the forums.

A friend of mine recently asked me if using Hideous Blow (Complete Arcane, page 134) provokes an Attack of Opportunity. Offhand I'd say it does, but upon researching further I found this FAQ by the author of Complete Arcane: http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/975156 in which he says it does not provoke. He also adds on that Andy Collins would clarify in his column Sage Advice in Dragon Magazine. However, everything I can find regarding that column indicates that Andy Collins said it DOES provoke an Attack of Opportunity.

So my question is this: Which is considered correct?

[nedz]

Hideous Blow is a Blast Shape Invocation for Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast provokes.

One trick is to use a reach weapon, e.g. Long Spear.

This FAQ entry is the only reference I've seen claiming that Hideous Blow does not provoke. Hideous Blow provoking is one of the major issues with this Shape.

[Necroticplague]

Hideous Blow is a Blast Shape Invocation for Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast provokes.

One trick is to use a reach weapon, e.g. Long Spear.

This FAQ entry is the only reference I've seen claiming that Hideous Blow does not provoke. Hideous Blow provoking is one of the major issues with this Shape.

However, do note that taking Supernatural Transformation:Eldritch blast might solve the problem. makes it so the eldritch blast doesn't provoke, since its now a supernatural ability. Of course, then you have that Hideous Blow itself is still an SLA, so it might still provoke, unless you also take Eupernatural Transformation:Hideous blow (or maybe Supernatural Transformation:Invocations, was never sure on that one). Thus, one of the reasons it sucks: it takes 2 feats in order to just try and get rid of one glaring weakness, and then still not providing much (if your in that close to an enemy as a warlock and aren't a clawlock, somethings gone wrong).

[nedz]

However, do note that taking Supernatural Transformation:Eldritch blast might solve the problem. makes it so the eldritch blast doesn't provoke, since its now a supernatural ability. Of course, then you have that Hideous Blow itself is still an SLA, so it might still provoke, unless you also take Eupernatural Transformation:Hideous blow (or maybe Supernatural Transformation:Invocations, was never sure on that one). Thus, one of the reasons it sucks: it takes 2 feats in order to just try and get rid of one glaring weakness, and then still not providing much (if your in that close to an enemy as a warlock and aren't a clawlock, somethings gone wrong).

Well Blast shapes don't provoke because they're not an action, so just the one feat is required :smallsigh:

The other main reasons HB sucks is the lack of iterative attacks and the fact that it is a standard action so can't be used on a charge etc.

[SiuiS]

However, do note that taking Supernatural Transformation:Eldritch blast might solve the problem. makes it so the eldritch blast doesn't provoke, since its now a supernatural ability. Of course, then you have that Hideous Blow itself is still an SLA, so it might still provoke, unless you also take Eupernatural Transformation:Hideous blow (or maybe Supernatural Transformation:Invocations, was never sure on that one). Thus, one of the reasons it sucks: it takes 2 feats in order to just try and get rid of one glaring weakness, and then still not providing much (if your in that close to an enemy as a warlock and aren't a clawlock, somethings gone wrong).

It's also theoretically feasible to take that feat and then retrain out of warlock, and keep Eldritch blast as a supernatural ability. I don't know anymore. That argument took days and I got so wrapped up in minutiae I couldn't tell you my my own arm from a lock of my hair anymore @.@

[SliceandDiceKid]

Use eldritch glaive from Dragon Magic p. 82 instead.

Or house rule that hideous blow doesn't trigger AoO's.

[nedz]

Use eldritch glaive from Dragon Magic p. 82 instead.

Or house rule that hideous blow doesn't trigger AoO's.

Or Eldritch Claws
Hideous blow is Hideous because

Standard action to use so

No Full attacks
No combining with other attack options like Charge, AoO etc.

It's an SLA so it provokes, unless you cast it defensively
Less chance of hitting because it's not a touch attack


Eldritch Glaive

From Dragon magic
Can still provoke, but it has reach
Full round action to use so

You get a full attack
It doesn't work well with movement
Using it with Combat Reflexes can be hard

Touch attack for Eldritch blast damage


Eldritch Claws

From Dragon Magazine (#358) which might be an issue for you.
Prerequisite: Eldritch blast 2d6.
It's a free action to use which is handy.
Unarmed strike damage plus your Eldritch blast damage.
Interlocks with use of Eldritch blast (Blocks)
Counts as two claws (natural attacks)



But the OP's question is about a RAW v FAQ discrepancy which might invalidate one of these points. However FAQ is not RAW so unless it's mentioned in the Errata too, which it isn't, HB provokes.

[Psyren]

Oh neat, he even discussed the thorny "innate" thing that keeps popping up. I'll reference that going forward for sure.

[Necroticplague]

Or Eldritch Claws
Hideous blow is Hideous because

Standard action to use so

No Full attacks
No combining with other attack options like Charge, AoO etc.

It's an SLA so it provokes, unless you cast it defensively
Less chance of hitting because it's not a touch attack


Eldritch Glaive

From Dragon magic
Can still provoke, but it has reach
Full round action to use so

You get a full attack
It doesn't work well with movement
Using it with Combat Reflexes can be hard

Touch attack for Eldritch blast damage


Eldritch Claws

From Dragon Magazine (#358) which might be an issue for you.
Prerequisite: Eldritch blast 2d6.
It's a free action to use which is handy.
Unarmed strike damage plus your Eldritch blast damage.
Interlocks with use of Eldritch blast (Blocks)
Counts as two claws (natural attacks)



But the OP's question is about a RAW v FAQ discrepancy which might invalidate one of these points. However FAQ is not RAW so unless it's mentioned in the Errata too, which it isn't, HB provokes.

Another benefit of claws is that thanks to fact they add your unarmed damage to them, you can use the Beast Strike feat to double up on the damage. Unfortunately, you don't get hellfire warlock damage or blast essences.

[nedz]

Another benefit of claws is that thanks to fact they add your unarmed damage to them, you can use the Beast Strike feat to double up on the damage. Unfortunately, you don't get hellfire warlock damage or blast essences.

Cool, I'll update my standard response file for when this next comes up :smallbiggrin:

Where's Beast Strike from ?

[Necroticplague]

Cool, I'll update my standard response file for when this next comes up :smallbiggrin:

Where's Beast Strike from ?

Its a feat from Dragon #355, lets you add your claw damage to unarmed attacks.

[zero32483]

Thanks, everyone! As usual I know I can always count on everyone here for the information I asked for and some interesting things I didn't, but am glad to find out anyways. lol Good hunting!