[3.5] Oh don't worry, it's just the Crazy Cat Lady. (Druid Help)

[Malak'ai]

We've all seen them. There's one in nearly every neighbourhood and now I want to make one.

Basic gist is to help me build a female Druid, starting at level 12, who specializes in the summoning of hoards of felines.

I got lucky with my stat rolls. They are, in no particular order: 18, 13, 18, 16, 14, 18.

I already know the first 4 feats I'm going to be taking, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Greenbound Summoning and Natural Bond. I was also considering taking Natural Spell quite heavily, even though I wasn't really planning on Wildshaping very often at all. I've also narrowed race down to Human or Strongheart Halfling.

So What I'm really asking for is suggestion for other feats to take, skills to concentrate on (apart from things like Concentration, Knowledge: Nature, Spell Craft and Survival), Spell selection and possible PrC's.

There are a couple of big house rules that will impact on the building of this character. These are the fact that we use 4e Ability progression and Pathfinder Feat progression, so that takes a bit of pressure off any long feat chains.

I have already read the Druid Handbook but still need a little bit of help, so any suggestions are welcome.

EDIT: I should also mention that we have 150% WBL with no more than 40% spent on any one item.

[Valwyn]

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?291826-Crazy-Cat-Lady-build) might have interesting ideas,

[Snowbluff]

You should take Exalted Companion so all of the cats can have Vow of Poverty.

[Red Fel]

Can you get a Tressym? Get a Tressym as your animal companion. Find a way to make it invisible. You now have an invisible, flying cat that talks to you.

You will be the craziest Crazy Cat Lady that ever crazy cat ladied.

Addendum: Get/be a Tibbit. Tibbits speak "Feline," which is a vaguely defined language shared by anything with feline characteristics, including cats, lions, Leonals, Rakshasas, catfolk, 1/3 of a chimera, weretigers, and the occasional thoroughly confused druid. Talk to all of them. Not about anything important, just about stuff.

"So, I don't know, the flowers in my garden just aren't blooming like they did last year."
"Meow."
"I know, but good fertilizer is so expensive."

Also: Anything in this article (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c).

[TrueJordan]

Initiate of nature should let you get an additional 3 tigers or lions to follow you around at level 12. Then you can take Wild Cohort to get another, or take Leadership and attract a druid who has wild cohort, initiate of nature (+2 tigers) and leadership with another druid who has... (though that'll only work probably twice at this level)

[Slipperychicken]

You'll want max ranks in Handle Animal, because your little kitties babies know who's their 'momma. Also, so you can apply the Warbeast template to your Medium-or-larger darlings. If you the check high enough, then you can train/rear other creature types (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#handleAnimal).

IIRC, cats are really cheap to buy, so you could easily have plenty of warbeast cats following you at any given time.

Also, you can Awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) some (or all) of your cats for the lulz.


You should take Exalted Companion so all of the cats can have Vow of Poverty.

Don't crazy cat-ladies try to spoil their pets by spending most of their money on them? Besides, you can get some extra crazy points for giving each cat a matching collar.

[eggynack]

Lion of talisid (BoED, 65) seems like the perfect prestige class for this, both granting you cat theming, and exalted companion, at the same time. Out of the druid spell list, relevant options I found are lion's charge (SpC, 133), bite of the weretiger (SpC, 28), and leonal's roar (BoED, 102), and it might be worth working in a desert theme, which would mean a lot of sandstorm spells. My initial instinct on the overall build is that it should probably be a VoP style super-good druid. This is simultaneously because two of my listed build elements are BoED things, and because having your crazy cat lady dressed all in rags amuses me. It's probably not the best idea, however, because your game makes VoP particularly suboptimal, between the high WBL and feats. Worth consideration though.

[Arbane]

No commoners shall be safe....

[Ellowryn]

Dont Forget a level of Mystic Wanderer from Magic of Fearun, gives you a familiar if you dont already have one so its useful if you are going the druid route. Prereq's are kinda long and annoying, but not hard.

If i remember correctly there is a feat called Animal Leadership, but then again you didnt want to go the leadership route but its there.

Having a manservant isnt too far out of the box, cause there are crazy cat ladies of the wealthy variety too, and have him go the DFI bard route to further boost their abilities!

[Oko and Qailee]

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?291826-Crazy-Cat-Lady-build) might have interesting ideas,

I'm actually playing the build in a campaign right now! I had a bit of a tussle with the party paladin (like, very minor, I swear) and he ended up ultra surprised to find out my cats had 40+ HP

Although it's somewhat different that what we discussed in that thread. Basically Druid/PRCRanger/Beastmaster are your best friends.

[eggynack]

Although it's somewhat different that what we discussed in that thread. Basically Druid/PRCRanger/Beastmaster are your best friends.
I don't think that beastmaster can ever be described as anyone's best friend. It's just such an awful class. PrC ranger is also likely quite bad, given the lost caster level, though I've yet to assess the list addition benefits.

[Oko and Qailee]

Well I meant in the entire "having more of an animal companion", not in the "you want to be really powerful"

[eggynack]

Well I meant in the entire "having more of an animal companion", not in the "you want to be really powerful"
Honestly, to some extent, I kinda meant it that way too. The animal companions after the first all begin their progression at the level you get them, so they verge towards being completely useless. You can't even apply natural bond to more than one of them, which would be one of the more interesting beastmaster tricks if it worked. If you just want a lot of animal companions, and that's the sole criterion, beastmaster is probably the best way to get there. If you want just about anything else, up to and including a high level of power derived from the animal companion class feature, then it's just about the worst way to get there.

[Malak'ai]

Thanks for all the suggestions, but I don't think I made myself clear in the OP.

I'm looking to make a Druid who Summons heaps of feline creatures, not one that has them hanging around permanently.
So while I'll be looking to eventually get a Dire Tiger AC, at this point it's more about using SNA spells to fill the battle feild with kitties. Any suggestion on how to make that possible would be greatly appreciated.

[Telonius]

If you could make it a Goliath, you could pick up the Fling Ally feat, to use on your feline minions.

[Oko and Qailee]

Honestly, to some extent, I kinda meant it that way too. The animal companions after the first all begin their progression at the level you get them, so they verge towards being completely useless. You can't even apply natural bond to more than one of them, which would be one of the more interesting beastmaster tricks if it worked. If you just want a lot of animal companions, and that's the sole criterion, beastmaster is probably the best way to get there. If you want just about anything else, up to and including a high level of power derived from the animal companion class feature, then it's just about the worst way to get there.

Would it really be that bad? Druid, Ranger, and Beastmaster all stack, and your first beast master companion +3 druid levels higher. That means that most of you companions will be the same level as a straight druid companion, and one will be 3 levels higher (assuming you stop at just beastmaster 4 I think, D&D tools is down so I can't double check). Yeah, it's not as good as straight Druid, but not everything has to be as good as a tier one class.

[eggynack]

Would it really be that bad? Druid, Ranger, and Beastmaster all stack, and your first beast master companion +3 druid levels higher. That means that most of you companions will be the same level as a straight druid companion, and one will be 3 levels higher (assuming you stop at just beastmaster 4 I think, D&D tools is down so I can't double check). Yeah, it's not as good as straight Druid, but not everything has to be as good as a tier one class.
The levels only stack for the first one. Subsequent ones are based only on a penalized beastmaster level. Thus, the "capstone" of the class is an animal companion that would be granted to a first level druid. The dip for a natural bond effect is not the worst thing ever, though it is really bad compared to straight druid, but the extra companion ability is awful. If it worked the way you think it does, then beastmaster would be a monumental step down from druidry, but it'd at least act as advertised. As is, the class does not do that.

Edit: Oh ye gods, it's actually explicitly like that. I thought it was just implied by the lack of rule as compared to the standard animal companion they get. They wanted it to work like this. Because I guess beastmaster is overpowered or something. It's a somewhat ridiculous thing.

[Oko and Qailee]

OH WOW, I missed that...

I only ever read the one for beastmaster level +3 that says it stacks with all other sources. Huge bummer. I concede sir

[Malak'ai]

Once again thank you for the suggestions, but Beastmaster wasn't exactly what I was looking for.

[eggynack]

Once again thank you for the suggestions, but Beastmaster wasn't exactly what I was looking for.
Well, for summoning stuff, you seem to have most relevant feat bases covered. You don't have ashbound (ECS, 50), though the doubled duration thing is a bit reduced in value by level 12. As for items, the big thing you need is a ring of the beast (CC, 141), with a ring of mighty summons (CM, 127) being a reasonable other item, and a belt of battle(MIC, 73) as just a generically good option, and will possibly allow multiple summons in a round if you run one of the standard action summoning methods I mention below.

Past that, I'd strongly recommend putting together a shifter druid, definitely with shifter substitution levels (RoE, 126), and possibly with either 4 or 12 moonspeaker (RoE, 143) levels. You could even run it with razorclaw or something to further your cat-nature. In any case, the whole thing gets you a lot of summoning-relevant abilities, like standard action summoning, extended summoning, and extra SNA monsters. If you choose not to take that path, then you should probably add a chronocharm of the uncaring archmage (MIC, 86) and/or golden desert honey (CM, 136), which will give you some limited access to the standard action summoning thing.

[.Zero]

I totally quote eggynack. Shifters' substitutions levels make the best summoning druids, and along with the razorclaw trait, they fit perfectly with you character concept. Just be a shifter and greenbound all your kittens, while your spirit beast pumps yourself up.
You'll end up being a tiger that rides a tiger that summons other tigers.
Then add some moonspeaker and enjoy.

If you're not a shifter (oh, what a shame) and are still focusing on summoning, then rapid summoning feat is mandatory.
Or be totally silly with Ocular Spell feat, and full-round action shot 2d4 + 2 dire lions from your eyes! Then enlarge them and pounce & rake through the end (the silly part is that you need to PREPARE SNA. It won't work with druid's spontaneous summoning).

[Bonzai]

Thanks for all the suggestions, but I don't think I made myself clear in the OP.

I'm looking to make a Druid who Summons heaps of feline creatures, not one that has them hanging around permanently.
So while I'll be looking to eventually get a Dire Tiger AC, at this point it's more about using SNA spells to fill the battle feild with kitties. Any suggestion on how to make that possible would be greatly appreciated.

Doh! I was going to suggest Druid 3/ totemist 2/ beast master 10/?. Get cats and share soul meld. Now your half dozen or so cats can all flying wyrven spines.

[eggynack]

You'll end up being a tiger that rides a tiger that summons other tigers.

I'd subtract the riding a tiger part from that equation. Beast spirit trades away the animal companion, after all.


...then rapid summoning feat is mandatory
I don't think this works out. I'm pretty sure that rapid summoning is a non-feat, and it looks like rapid spell doesn't do anything to Spontaneous SNA. The rapid summoning resources I mentioned should mitigate this issue, however.

[.Zero]

I'd subtract the riding a tiger part from that equation. Beast spirit trades away the animal companion, after all.

I was in the mood that he'll be buying some dire cats ;)


I don't think this works out. I'm pretty sure that rapid summoning is a non-feat, and it looks like rapid spell doesn't do anything to Spontaneous SNA. The rapid summoning resources I mentioned should mitigate this issue, however.

Sure, my fault. I meant Rapid Spell (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-divine--56/rapid-spell--2378/) applied to prepared SNA. That's the only way i know to do it as a non-shifter.

[Malak'ai]

Well, for summoning stuff, you seem to have most relevant feat bases covered. You don't have ashbound (ECS, 50), though the doubled duration thing is a bit reduced in value by level 12. As for items, the big thing you need is a ring of the beast (CC, 141), with a ring of mighty summons (CM, 127) being a reasonable other item, and a belt of battle(MIC, 73) as just a generically good option, and will possibly allow multiple summons in a round if you run one of the standard action summoning methods I mention below.

Past that, I'd strongly recommend putting together a shifter druid, definitely with shifter substitution levels (RoE, 126), and possibly with either 4 or 12 moonspeaker (RoE, 143) levels. You could even run it with razorclaw or something to further your cat-nature. In any case, the whole thing gets you a lot of summoning-relevant abilities, like standard action summoning, extended summoning, and extra SNA monsters. If you choose not to take that path, then you should probably add a chronocharm of the uncaring archmage (MIC, 86) and/or golden desert honey (CM, 136), which will give you some limited access to the standard action summoning thing.

The reason I haven't included Ashbound (at the moment anyway) is because I'm expecting there to be 2 arcane casters in the party, and I'm not entirely sure how it would work seeing as according to the fluff of the feat, Ashbound Druids:


You have been trained in the druidic traditions of the Ashbound, seeing yourself as one of nature's avengers. You consider the use of arcane magic to be a vile and unnatural act.

And while I think I could take one of the others if they went PvP, I'm not so sure about the other :smalltongue:.

Also, would I don't have Races of Ebberon, so Shifter and Moonspeaker are off the table, though I will try to find it, because they sound really good.