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View Full Version : How Viable is Paimon to a level 3 binder?



CyberThread
2014-04-11, 10:05 AM
Just looking over various options, do you think , paimon is viable for a level 3 binder to take, or is BAB and hp to low, that putting to much undue risk at that early stage of a game.

Snowbluff
2014-04-11, 10:06 AM
Other 3/4 BAB classes frequently engage in melee combat. Totemist, swordsage, rogue...

SiuiS
2014-04-11, 10:08 AM
I am so disappointed this has nothing to do with digimon :(

Dusk Eclipse
2014-04-11, 10:11 AM
Paimon works beutifully for hit and run tactics, if you manage your movement well you shouldn't be in place for a counter attack at the end of your turn and you should always tumble at full speed, Paimon himself gives you a +6 bonus to tumble from the start.

mabriss lethe
2014-04-11, 12:15 PM
You can also avoid a good bit of payback if you use a longspear or other reach weapon with Paimon.

Psyren
2014-04-11, 12:23 PM
You still provoke so it's a good way to get killed, and it'll typically put you on the wrong side of the enemy from your allies too. I suggest Dahlver-Nar or Savnok for low-level Binder-gishing instead.

StreamOfTheSky
2014-04-11, 01:21 PM
You can also avoid a good bit of payback if you use a longspear or other reach weapon with Paimon.

That's how I'd do it, not just to avoid AoOs but also to be able to strike more enemies on the move. It's a decent pseudo-Dervish Dance. Just not sure what you do those other 4 rounds...

mabriss lethe
2014-04-11, 03:42 PM
At low levels, it's risky. That's true. There are plenty of ways, some already mentioned, to mitigate that risk.
-Use it in the surprise round. Flat footed foes are denied AoOs.
-Use tumble. Yes, you shorten your distance that you can travel, but while tumbling you don't provoke and it's commonly accepted that Dance of Death does not limit your use of Tumble.
-Use a reach weapon. If you stay out of their threatened area you will not provoke an AoO.
-Miss chance: Hard to reliably get as a low level binder, but can save you from a lot of AoOs.

It's also a very good way, especially coupled with a reach weapon, to deliver a nice debuff with something like Death Devotion.

Feint's End
2014-04-11, 03:48 PM
Just looking over various options, do you think , paimon is viable for a level 3 binder to take, or is BAB and hp to low, that putting to much undue risk at that early stage of a game.

I once had a Binder starting with Swordsage and going into Binder right after the first level. I just went Swordsage to nap Shadowblade basically and some nice maneuvers for the early levels + decent skills. I also grabed EWP Spiked Chain and Weaponfinesse and bound Paimon as soon as possible. It makes for a pretty solid base for a melee with lots of utility and with paimon you are actually a good fighter type up to mid op.

Paimon isn't really good for a generalized Binder but for a Binder who has some melee prowess in form of Shadowblade and dex synergie it's pretty awesome.