[3.P] Any reason to take Arcane Archer?

[Larkas]

So, the Arcane Archer was turned into a real gish PrC in PF, what with it advancing arcane spellcasting 7/10. It's still pretty bad, though. It's at most an 8 levels long PrC, since the third CL is lost at level 9 and the abilities gained at that and 10th levels are pretty crappy. Heck, the capstone is keyed off Charisma and you can only hit 9th's by being a Wizard (not to mention having to find a way to get +6 BAB by level 10 with no more lost CL). Most of the remaining class features, while direct improvements over their 3.5 counterparts, are pretty underwhelming. The saving grace is still Imbue Arrow, which now comes attached to a CL-advancing level. However, while not particularly great, 8th-level's Hail of Arrows is still pretty badass when it's useful, specially if you consider the elemental burst distance arrows. Ganking eight targets from a distance of up to 2200ft. as a standard action is no mean feat!

That said, in a 3.P CO environment, is it useful for more than 4 levels? Are levels 5-8 of Arcane Archer more useful than, say, 4 levels of Abjurant Champions for builds that can lose one more CL?

A few builds to get us started:

Martial Wizard 6/ Ruathar 3/ Abjurant Champion 1/ Arcane Archer 10 (BAB: +16; Spells: 9th)

Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 8/ Arcane Archer 8/ Abjurant Champion 4 (BAB: +18; Spells: 9th)

Bard 7/ Abjurant Champion 1/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Arcane Archer +2/ Abjurant Champion +3/ Ruathar 3 (BAB: +16; Spells: 9th)

[Waker]

Arcane Duelist Bard wouldn't be a bad entry into the class. It would have a the BAB to meet the entry requirements by 8, gets Arcane Strike for free for overcoming DR and adding to weapon damage in general, Bladethirst explicitly stacks with Enhance Arrows when you really need to up the damage, plus you can improve you weapon with Arcane Bond. Granted, the Bard spell list isn't the best with Imbue Arrow, but there are a few spells that could be fun.

I understand the hesitancy to lose any caster levels, but is Aligned Enhance Arrows that bad? While somewhat short of amazing, the ability to potentially deal an extra 2d6 damage and overcome DR isn't terrible, especially given the difficulty with piling damage on arrows.
The last thing I am somewhat curious on is Arrow of Death. Specifically while it slays a target that fails the save, it doesn't actually use the term death effect or the like. Wouldn't that technically mean that the arrow can kill targets normally immune to such effects, like constructs and undead? The only contradicting evidence is that they use the term slain as opposed to slain/destroy.

[Baroncognito]

I just wish you could apply Alter Memories with the imbue arrow ability. I just want to shoot someone with an arrow so that they'll forget they've been hit by an arrow.

[deuxhero]

PF also nerfed what you can toss on an arrow

Zen Archer+Emperyal Sorcerer isn't a terrible entry, but you aren't getting AMF arrows with it.

[Larkas]

Arcane Duelist Bard wouldn't be a bad entry into the class. It would have a the BAB to meet the entry requirements by 8, gets Arcane Strike for free for overcoming DR and adding to weapon damage in general, Bladethirst explicitly stacks with Enhance Arrows when you really need to up the damage, plus you can improve you weapon with Arcane Bond. Granted, the Bard spell list isn't the best with Imbue Arrow, but there are a few spells that could be fun.

Hmmm... In a 3.P environment, Arcane Duelist Bard is compatible with Sublime Chord. Not a bad idea!


I understand the hesitancy to lose any caster levels, but is Aligned Enhance Arrows that bad? While somewhat short of amazing, the ability to potentially deal an extra 2d6 damage and overcome DR isn't terrible, especially given the difficulty with piling damage on arrows.

Aligned weapons aren't bad, they're just not worth the lost caster level. Remember, it can be the difference between being able to cast 9th level spells or not. For something that can be easily fixed by spending gold? That's not a fair trade at all.


The last thing I am somewhat curious on is Arrow of Death. Specifically while it slays a target that fails the save, it doesn't actually use the term death effect or the like. Wouldn't that technically mean that the arrow can kill targets normally immune to such effects, like constructs and undead? The only contradicting evidence is that they use the term slain as opposed to slain/destroy.

It actually can. It refers to slaying arrow (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/weapons.html#_slaying-arrow). The only difference is the save DC, and the fact that it only works for the character who created it.

The first build I posted actually makes use of the full class. Of course, it uses 3.5 content to qualify, but it does work. I'm just not convinced it is worth it, specially considering the Wizard (i.e.: Int-based) entry.


I just wish you could apply Alter Memories with the imbue arrow ability. I just want to shoot someone with an arrow so that they'll forget they've been hit by an arrow.

That'd be hilarious! :smallbiggrin:


PF also nerfed what you can toss on an arrow

Did it? I only noticed the nerfed the casting time, which admittedly was part of the PrC's attractiveness. It's not an unreasonable nerf, though.


Zen Archer+Emperyal Sorcerer isn't a terrible entry, but you aren't getting AMF arrows with it.

Eh? Why not?

[Azoth]

Yeah was about to say a 2lvl dip isn't bad if you regularly drop AoE spells. Sculpt spell to make the largest area you can and then just fire away from safety. I usually use it with AMF going for the 20ft radius 40ft cylider or the 4 10X10X10 cubes.

It can still be useful with outer things if they have a shorter range as well.

[ericgrau]

That said, in a 3.P CO environment, is it useful for more than 4 levels? Are levels 5-8 of Arcane Archer more useful than, say, 4 levels of Abjurant Champions for builds that can lose one more CL?
Sure, for enhance arrow. Imbue arrow is all you really want if you're taking arcane archer as a straight caster. Dip 2 levels and stop. If you're focusing on archery then enhance arrow is your main draw. Then you take full BAB classes and your casting is pretty low level. So you blow your low level spells mostly on buffs. Try to boost your caster level to get a stronger greater magic weapon and such. Wand and staff access is nice too.

If you mean for high optimization where all that matters is spells then no, you don't use the archer version of the build, you use the caster version and it's a 2 level dip. But then, same goes for almost all non-caster PrCs. If you're going for a gish and lost caster levels won't destroy all hope, then try the above but rely on staffs. Caster 6-8 entry won't shoot very well. It's more like a caster who happens to have a trick or two with a bow rather than an archer who happens to have a trick or two with a staff.