I want to destroy the world

[AdamantlyD20]

My dm is a total jerk who keeps changing game systems and starting us at level 1 every few sessions. We already told him that we were tired of it. I want to destroy his campaign world to show him how it feels to have all the work you put into something be thrown away. I know it's a little immature and whatever, but he won't listen to us and i want to make our point understood on a level he may finally realize we are tired of his "****" .

I give you: the "black hole gravity cannon"

Take a pair of ring gates, arrange them so that one lets out into the other (creating a continual loop). Place a rod of Iron in the gate that is as long as the gap between the two gates, minus a couple of millimeters. The two ends of the rod should almost touch, but not quite. Weld them together. You now have an infinitely long length of iron rod.*

Place this whole contraption into a jar that can hold a vacuum. Evacuate all the air, and release the rod. The rod will accelerate using gravity infinitely. It'll hit the speed of light.

[E=mc^2] Since mass increases with speed, (in order to maintain and gather speed it would have to become infinitely massive and be traveling at theoretically infinite speed?) eventually this should, I think, create a black hole. Once that happens, the rings will collapse and release this massive, newly created black hole zooming into the middle of the planet at several times the speed of light.

Be sure to grab popcorn and watch from the safety of your demiplane.

Please tell me if this would work

[Anlashok]

There's no acceleration in dnd.

[AdamantlyD20]

Nooooooooooooooo! Back to the World destruction drawing board. Any other ideas?

[Dr. Azkur]

Since you're starting from level 1 every few sessions... your best bet is to beat it.

Nothing destroys a universe quite like walking away from it.

Anyway, I really think your group should either get a better DM, one who has their **** straight (either by having him play and one of the players, such as yourself, be the new one... or the other, not so friendly way).

You could always be Pun-Pun... It has been a while since it has been updated enough to be possible at 1st level. And if he insists that you can't, then argue that it's 100% legal as per RAW.

To me this just sounds like a big, fat, passive-aggressive way to say "I don't want to play like this anymore" (which according to my calculations, you have a 97% chance to have to end up saying it out loud at some point in this road), and you're better off with clear, spoken decisions, but it's your game man.

[Reshy]

A 1d2 crusader could do it, albeit sounds like getting to level 12 would be a problem.

[Dr. Azkur]

A 1d2 crusader could do it, albeit sounds like getting to level 12 would be a problem.

I was going to reply that beside the fact level 12 doesn't seem viable, you just end up with a 1hit kill guy. But then it occurred to me... could the Shuriken Crusader sunder the World? (EDIT: Best name for a band and song!)

[The Oni]

The fact is, DM-Player adversarialism never, ever, ever works. DM can't play without players. Player can't play without DMs.

Next time he says "we're switching systems" tell him "no we aren't, I like [my character name] and I'm keeping him. I can play him here or I can play him somewhere else." If he's got a problem with that, bust out your favorite board game and ask if the other players (who are also annoyed with him) wanna try it.

[AdamantlyD20]

Since you're starting from level 1 every few sessions... your best bet is to beat it.

Nothing destroys a universe quite like walking away from it.

Anyway, I really think your group should either get a better DM, one who has their **** straight (either by having him play and one of the players, such as yourself, be the new one... or the other, not so friendly way).

You could always be Pun-Pun... It has been a while since it has been updated enough to be possible at 1st level. And if he insists that you can't, then argue that it's 100% legal as per RAW.

To me this just sounds like a big, fat, passive-aggressive way to say "I don't want to play like this anymore" (which according to my calculations, you have a 97% chance to have to end up saying it out loud at some point in this road), and you're better off with clear, spoken decisions, but it's your game man.

I don't think that "rules as written" matter too much to this DM. He always said "I don't care if the rules say something, it doesn't make sense then I'm changing it.... he calls it "rule of cool" - but it's anything but cool. He doesn't understand the difference between RAI and Rule of Cool. I need a logical solution using in game mechanics to destroy this parasite that plagues our group

[WhamBamSam]

A 1d2 crusader could do it, albeit sounds like getting to level 12 would be a problem.You could probably cheese your way to a NI Str Cancer Mage a bit sooner. And as Dr. Azkur said, Pun-Pun will take care of it.

You might also be able to set off a wightocalypse at a relatively low level. The Locate City Bomb doesn't work, but there might be something.


I don't think that "rules as written" matter too much to this DM. He always said "I don't care if the rules say something, it doesn't make sense then I'm changing it.... he calls it "rule of cool" - but it's anything but cool. He doesn't understand the difference between RAI and Rule of Cool. I need a logical solution using in game mechanics to destroy this parasite that plagues our group"Using in-game mechanics" is pretty much what RAW means. You can't solve out of game problems in game, no matter how much phenomenal cosmic power your pretend wizard amasses, and the fact that the DM is liable to pull said power out from under said pretend wizard only exacerbates the problem. You won't solve anything this way. Talk to your DM again, with the other players backing you up if possible, and if he doesn't promise to shape up and stick to it either offer to run the game yourself, find some other person to do it, or leave.

The world you are trying to destroy is an illusion. Roll to disbelieve.

[Reshy]

You could probably cheese your way to a NI Str Cancer Mage a bit sooner. And as Dr. Azkur said, Pun-Pun will take care of it.

You might also be able to set off a wightocalypse at a relatively low level. The Locate City Bomb doesn't work, but there might be something.


Why doesn't that work?

[AdamantlyD20]

Probably because it doesn't deal damage to objects. If i remember correctly

[WhamBamSam]

Why doesn't that work?I think it's something to do with creatures in the area of the spell not being targets. I remember seeing an explanation a while back but I can't find a link.

[atemu1234]

There's no acceleration in dnd.

This isn't true, for the most part. An object can accelerate, but it simply doesn't increase damage that much. However, we're all forgetting rule #0: The GM is always right. If you're this pissed at your DM, tell him to either shape up or you'll ship out. If its this passive-aggressive, then don't play.

[atomicwaffle]

lamp oil, alchemist's fire, burning hands. Set fire to everything. Everything. Towns? Fire. Plains? Fire. Caves and dungeons? Fire. Forests? Lots and lots of fire.

[Ossian]

My dm is a total jerk who keeps changing game systems and starting us at level 1 every few sessions. We already told him that we were tired of it. I want to destroy his campaign world to show him how it feels to have all the work you put into something be thrown away. I know it's a little immature and whatever, but he won't listen to us and i want to make our point understood on a level he may finally realize we are tired of his "****" .

I give you: the "black hole gravity cannon"

Take a pair of ring gates, arrange them so that one lets out into the other (creating a continual loop). Place a rod of Iron in the gate that is as long as the gap between the two gates, minus a couple of millimeters. The two ends of the rod should almost touch, but not quite. Weld them together. You now have an infinitely long length of iron rod.*

Place this whole contraption into a jar that can hold a vacuum. Evacuate all the air, and release the rod. The rod will accelerate using gravity infinitely. It'll hit the speed of light.

[E=mc^2] Since mass increases with speed, (in order to maintain and gather speed it would have to become infinitely massive and be traveling at theoretically infinite speed?) eventually this should, I think, create a black hole. Once that happens, the rings will collapse and release this massive, newly created black hole zooming into the middle of the planet at several times the speed of light.

Be sure to grab popcorn and watch from the safety of your demiplane.

Please tell me if this would work


You have to come back when your power is....over 9000!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ili6jo597FU

In all seriousness, walk away. Or just say: no. better not to play than to switch character and system another time.

Even if you did find a way to blow up the planet: poof. Gods wish it back with mass resurrection attached. Forget the Shenron Dragon.

Would be interesting to hear why your DM is doing this though. Apart from the "he is a jerk" scenario, he might have a reason which he thinks is perfectly legitimate. Worth asking, at least. Perhaps you can work this out through a logical argumentation, assuming he has one, and that it is flawed. After all, we do not know anything about you guys as players either :smallwink:

[AdamantlyD20]

The DMS words "I don't like when powerful characters do powerful things, It's expected; what I find interesting is watching the underdog win, the low level chcharacters/normal people with no power, who are able to solve problems bigger than themselves" ... unfortunately he's playing the wrong game for that kind of mentality. CR exists to gauge the relative power level of an encounter. If a level 1 character is playing.... against a CR 10 encounter.... obviously they're going to be decimated. Unless they're total Munchkins (which the DM obviously doesn't wasn't the players to be). He should quit trying to DM and instead he should write a damn book or masturbatory fanfic of some sort about weak incompetent people achieving something other than being commoners who can't even wipe their own rear-ends

[CIDE]

You can't win in-character. Even with Pun-Pun. DM will undo anything and I doubt they'd get the hint you're trying to make with doing this.

[Dr. Azkur]

It all runs down to fixing things yourself. I notice how you haven't replied any of the advices that will actually work: The ones telling you to fix things yourself, not through your character.

That is never going to work because you can't destroy something from within. That's like becoming a teacher thinking you'll change the educational system.

I'll say it again: Get an actual gaming group. This doesn't mean you have to quit seeing your friends, but clearly something is not working so you have to fix, so one last time: gather all the players and talk to the DM. Tell him it either gets serious or something changes.


He should quit trying to DM and instead he should write a damn book or masturbator fanfic of some sort about weak incompetent people achieving something other than being commoners who can't even wipe their own rear-ends

Look at what you're saying. Do you honestly believe you're going to be able to fix How you feel about a real thing by... fictionally destroying his fictional world?! That's not ever going to say anything to him. Tell him what you're telling us (But for the love the Great Wheel, use nicer words).

[AdamantlyD20]

We have tried talking to him. I think it's just time to let go. I can't save him as a DM. If I ever play again with him, it will be with a different DM.

[Zweisteine]

There is an actual guide to destroying the world in D&D (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?227513-Destroying-the-world-as-we-know-it-a-Handbook).

My personal favorite:
1. Open a gate to the Elemental Plane of Fire.
2. Inside that gate (on the Plane of Fire), open another gate facing it. This gate leads to the heart of the sun.
3. Watch as a million-mile beam of plasma obliterates the world.

This can be achieved at level one by judicious use of Pazuzu.

Or just Iron Heart Surge away the sun.

Use any matter creation spell to create large amounts of antimatter. Boom.


Also, the d2 cursader should work. "I attack the planet."

[RavynsLand]

Don't we all.

[Psyren]

If everyone else is as fed up as you are just elect a new DM. Life is too short to be sitting around a table doing something nobody enjoys.

[Dragonexx]

Simple solution: Don't play with the DM. If the other players are fed up, just get them to leave him and play a different game with you as the DM.

[AdamantlyD20]

I appreciate the input. We will probably try to recruit more players and start our own group. And sit down with all players to see what they want to get from their gaming experience and try to make it happen.

[Dr. Azkur]

There is an actual guide to destroying the world in D&D (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?227513-Destroying-the-world-as-we-know-it-a-Handbook).
at i
My personal favorite:
1. Open a gate to the Elemental Plane of Fire.
2. Inside that gate (on the Plane of Fire), open another gate facing it. This gate leads to the heart of the sun.
3. Watch as a million-mile beam of plasma obliterates the world.

This can be achieved at level one by judicious use of Pazuzu.

Or just Iron Heart Surge away the sun.

Use any matter creation spell to create large amounts of antimatter. Boom.


Also, the d2 cursader should work. "I attack the planet."

Why/How does Gate get effects to leak over from one plane to another? (This is that type of honest question that is very much expecting an answer. I'm actually wondering)

[Half-Wizard]

Take a pair of ring gates, arrange them so that one lets out into the other (creating a continual loop). Place a rod of Iron in the gate that is as long as the gap between the two gates, minus a couple of millimeters. The two ends of the rod should almost touch, but not quite. Weld them together. You now have an infinitely long length of iron rod.*

Place this whole contraption into a jar that can hold a vacuum. Evacuate all the air, and release the rod. The rod will accelerate using gravity infinitely. It'll hit the speed of light.

[E=mc^2] Since mass increases with speed, (in order to maintain and gather speed it would have to become infinitely massive and be traveling at theoretically infinite speed?) eventually this should, I think, create a black hole. Once that happens, the rings will collapse and release this massive, newly created black hole zooming into the middle of the planet at several times the speed of light.

Be sure to grab popcorn and watch from the safety of your demiplane.

Please tell me if this would work

It will work, but not the way you'd expect. That iron rod is going to brush against the rings and eventually destroy itself (since the rings are magical, they'll probably stand up to the wear and tear better than the rod).

You need to keep things centered without letting objects come into contact. Your best bet would be to use static repulsion. Instead of an iron rod, use a glass rod. Rub some silk on the glass to give it a charge. Then rub some silk on some other glass. Glass will repel glass, and you'll be able to balance the rod in the center without touching the rings.

This will pick up speed for quite a while, but eventually air friction will become a problem, probably resulting in the glass rod shaking forcefully enough that it hits the rings and explodes violently.

If you really want this to go crazy fast, build it with the glass rods and then put it into a vacuum chamber so you don't have to deal with air friction. The ring gates can help you make a vacuum, since they have entry and exit sides. If you seal the entry side on one ring, and the exit side on another ring, you'll have air passively coming into contact with one ring and passing out through the other ring. If you make the exit ring part of the wall of the vacuum chamber, you could later seal up the exit point from outside and then use its entry point inside the vacuum chamber. You'd need to use mage hand to open up its entry point, open the other ring's exit point, maneuver the charged glass rod into position, fuse it to itself, and then you'd be all set.

Once gravity takes over, the rod would accelerate to relativistic speeds, the machine would break when the mass of the rod produces enough gravitational force to break the vacuum chamber or the ring configuration, and then you would not have a black hole. Instead, you would have an absolutely massive explosion, easily enough to destroy the entire world. I estimate the mass you'd need to produce enough gravity would be around a trillion pounds, which would produce about 42 g of gravitational force at 1 inch away. Converted to energy, this would produce an explosion of about 40 trillion megatons, or a blast roughly 100 times the power of the blast produced by the asteroid which wiped out the dinosaurs. I think that will probably fit your needs.

[weckar]

Why doesn't that work?
The effect is planar, not spherical. The explosion damage is based on distance they can be removed from the spell area which, as a plane (a disk, in this case) is infinitesimal. This argument is not waterproof, but often used.

Also, as to the actual topic: The solution to your problem depends entirely on what system you are currently on. Most systems do allow certain degrees of ritual magic to be performed by any character, though (even in D&D it's a sorely-neglected never-updated 3.0 rule). Calling The Mists is a ritual (D&D only). Have fun.

[Mnemnosyne]

Why/How does Gate get effects to leak over from one plane to another? (This is that type of honest question that is very much expecting an answer. I'm actually wondering)
It doesn't. First, the gate spell says it allows travel between the two planes in question. Second, under the 'planar travel' function, it calls out plane shift as a spell the function works as. Under plane shift you transport creatures only (and by default when a creature is transported, all their possessions go with it unless otherwise specified). At no point does it say that unattended objects, atmosphere, and so on, can pass through.

Only a complete planar breach, described on page 152 of the Planar Handbook has any text suggesting that things like air, water, and environment can pour through without limit. A planar breach to the quasielemental plane of vacuum, for instance, would eventually (over a very long period of time) suck all the air off of a prime world...except for the fact that planar breaches have a listed duration.

[Deophaun]

The real "Black hole gravity cannon" involves a commoner with the Chicken Infested flaw and Quick Draw.

[Kane0]

The world you are trying to destroy is an illusion. Roll to disbelieve.

That sounds like an awesome way to do a bit of Matrix-esque breaking of the 4th wall.
DM (as NPC): "This world is an illusion, you must choose whether you believe it."
PC (IC and OOC): "I have lost the game"

[NichG]

The laws of physics of in-game phenomena in every tabletop game are, when it comes down to it, the laws of 'what the DM narrates as the result'. From that point you can go 'more real' in which case you start modelling the social interactions between DM and players, the psychology of the DM, etc - of course, this leads to the saying 'solve out of game problems with out of game solutions'.

You can also look in the direction of 'less real' which gets you to things like the laws of narrative causality, the game rules, etc - things which the DM may be trying to stick to for consistency or to achieve some gaming goal, but which are not actually binding. The physics of the real world is so far away from what actually determines what happens in a game that its generally pointless to consider unless its explicitly being brought in by the DM for some reason.

What it comes down to is that there is no way to do anything solely within the game that the DM does not want to happen. You cannot 'force' anything to happen via in-game methods, no matter what you do. In purely in-game terms, the DM is free to say 'that doesn't work' or 'your character turns into a chicken and purple monks start playing canasta using it as a table' or whatever. Where you have any sort of power to actually push on this is outside of the game, because you and the DM are trying to have fun in a collaborative activity, and where you can say things like 'hey, stop being a jerk' when the DM pulls crap like that, or even just 'I'm leaving'.

The only reason why the in-game universe isn't complete and utter fiat is those out of game pressures. The DM, at the end of the day, has to meet their players in the middle somewhere.

[Dr. Azkur]

It doesn't. First, the gate spell says it allows travel between the two planes in question. Second, under the 'planar travel' function, it calls out plane shift as a spell the function works as. Under plane shift you transport creatures only (and by default when a creature is transported, all their possessions go with it unless otherwise specified). At no point does it say that unattended objects, atmosphere, and so on, can pass through.

Only a complete planar breach, described on page 152 of the Planar Handbook has any text suggesting that things like air, water, and environment can pour through without limit. A planar breach to the quasielemental plane of vacuum, for instance, would eventually (over a very long period of time) suck all the air off of a prime world...except for the fact that planar breaches have a listed duration.

Thanks! I had not read it on the spell description and it seemed quite illogical that it worked like that (like 80% of the planes are inhospitable in its majority, so unless you wanted to destroy a whole bunch of stuff, opening a Gate to anywhere would be stupid), yet I have seen it used like that so many times and with such conviction that I simply started to doubt.

[Talya]

http://qntm.org/destroy

[AdamantlyD20]

I feel like an evil diabolical villain after reading some of these comments. I appreciate the help

[Grod_The_Giant]

I like the breath weapon method. You can do it at level 1 as a Dragonborn with flaws, I think. Take Enlarge Breath and Lingering breath, apply them an arbitrarily high number of times, and engulf the world in energy for a thousand years.

[HaikenEdge]

The real "Black hole gravity cannon" involves a commoner with the Chicken Infested flaw and Quick Draw.

Came into the thread to say this. Cover the world with infinite chickens from a spell component pouch (which is a free action to manipulate).

[AdamantlyD20]

Came into the thread to say this. Cover the world with infinite chickens from a spell component pouch (which is a free action to manipulate).

Lol! Infinite chickens, although funny, doesn't necessarily sound particularly evil

[HaikenEdge]

Lol! Infinite chickens, although funny, doesn't necessarily sound particularly evil

No, but it could still end the world.

Robert Frost was wrong; the world won't end in fire or ice. It'll end in chickens.