Wall running - how to? (3.5ed)

[bluerocker]

Hi there, forum.

A player asked me if he could replicate the Prince of Persia's ability to run along walls in short bursts, for (and I quote) "not more than 30 feet or so".
An example can be found here, for those not familiar with the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo8z_CyJyyc

I know people are able to do that in real life, but I've no idea bout the mechanics of it.

[Piggy Knowles]

Up the Walls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#upTheWalls) handles this nicely. You'll need to be able to be psionically focused, but a psionic race or Hidden Talent both cover that.

[bluerocker]

Up the Walls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#upTheWalls) handles this nicely. You'll need to be able to be psionically focused, but a psionic race or Hidden Talent both cover that.

Is there a Mundane way though? I'm sorry I forgot to mention that in the OP. I think the player wants to use a mundane skill check/ability instead of a spell or psionic ability.

[G.Cube]

Seeing as it's not a highly advantageous ability and not really worth a feat,I would just require a tumble/balance/acrobatics check, though my group tends to be very flowy or sloppy, depending on your outlook.

[Cloud]

There might be some skill tricks, though as a DM you could just remove psionic part of the feat, as you said it is in a some way a mundane trick.

Walk the Walls also does the exact same thing that the feat does, just weaker (and as a skill trick is usable only once per encounter).

I'd probably just make Up the Walls not psionic, but if that worried you you could make it like the skill trick and have it so that 1 square of wall movement used up four squares, the main advantage of a feat here been usable more than once per encounter.

[bluerocker]

Seeing as it's not a highly advantageous ability and not really worth a feat,I would just require a tumble/balance/acrobatics check, though my group tends to be very flowy or sloppy, depending on your outlook.

I think it could be an interesting alternative to jump checks, if anything. For example, big chasm to deal with. Do we jump? No, we run; in an example similar to the first post.

[Zytil]

Isn't there a monk ACF that replaces slow fall to do exactly this?

EDIT: Yup, found it. It's in dungeonscape. The problem is that this requires monk levels.

[Cloud]

The problem is more that Fly is a 3rd level spell, making it useable at 5th level, and by 8th level it's common and readily available, basically rendering all the impressive jump/climb/tumble things you could do completely useless, which is why I probably wouldn't make getting the ability particularly painful.

A full strength Up the Walls is at least vaguely interesting in a low level dungeon setting, and to be honest the visual is cool enough to pick the feat, maybe. Again I'd probably just change it from psionic and you could adjust the requirements. The skill trick Walk the Walls is even more unimpressive (and needs 12 ranks in climb and 5 ranks in tumble).

[sleepyphoenixx]

Flight has several restrictions that limit its combat use, particularly for melee classes. Unless you get perfect maneuverability anyway.
It's also a waste of a spell slot if you can circumvent an obstacle with a simple skill check, especially if you only have one or two 3rd level slots. Unless everyone in the party can cast it will take a bit longer than level 8 before everyone can fly all the time.

[VoxRationis]

I think there's a skill trick from Complete Scoundrel that lets you do this. I'm not fond of skill tricks, myself, because they have a once-per-encounter limit for no apparent reason, but you can take it if you like it better than I do.

[Afgncaap5]

Skill Tricks are exactly what you want for this. Specifically, Walk The Walls would probably be what you want. The once-per-encounter rule is a hassle, but generally you don't need it more than once. Uncanny Trickster (or Magical Trickster) both allow ways to redo them, and there are houserule ways that can be permitted (changing a skill trick to be more like a dragon's breath so that you can only do it every 1d4 rounds, or possibly allowing a character to take skill tricks multiple times, so first spend two skill points to learn it once, a second skill trick to learn it twice, etc. Each new learning of the trick thus allowing you to perform it an extra time during an encounter.) These things might not be RAW, but they prevent the kind of abuses that skill tricks can be put to if they have no restrictions and generally aren't so overpowered that a player who does benefit from them won't benefit in any game-breaking way.

(Also, if your character is low in level, you might want to tweak the requirements for gaining Walk The Walls so that they don't have to wait until level 9. Like, high dexterity or high speed helping to mitigate those skill point requirements or something.)

[VoxRationis]

How good are the skill tricks that they're imbalanced if you can use them all the time? With the exception of Mosquito's Bite, I mean.

[sleepyphoenixx]

How good are the skill tricks that they're imbalanced if you can use them all the time? With the exception of Mosquito's Bite, I mean.

Swift Concentration would be pretty powerful if it wasn't limited. Never Outnumbered with the right build. And Spot the Weak Point for melee classes.

[Afgncaap5]

In my opinion? They wouldn't be *too* overpowered if they could be used every round. Still, a DM dealing with a character who can just not be on the floor a turn later has a few headaches to contend with.

I think the 1d4 rounds rule is a fair one since it suggests that performing the move might unbalance, confuse or temporarily wear out the person who used it. It requires some effort to do, otherwise most people would be able to do it. A person with a skill trick *might* be able to pull it off again next round... but only if they're acting very efficiently and have a good string of luck.

[Slipperychicken]

Easy: Re-skin the accelerated climbing rules.

By taking a -5 to a Climb check, you can move at half speed while climbing. Combine that with a double-move, and you've got 30ft of movement along a wall. If you want to move even faster, you can take a -20 and move double your speed.

So to traverse 30ft of wall in a double-move would be DC 20 (typical dungeon wall) +5 (accelerated climbing) = 25. With some investment, you can make that pretty reliably.

[Tedective]

Oops, I made the information as title and not text...

[Slipperychicken]

Oops, I made the information as title and not text...

Near the bottom right of your post, there should be a button labeled "Edit Post".


http://i.imgur.com/RuMO6L9.png


That'll bring up a similar interface to the "post reply", except you're editing a post instead of creating one.

[Psyren]

Walk the Walls also does the exact same thing that the feat does, just weaker (and as a skill trick is usable only once per encounter).



I think there's a skill trick from Complete Scoundrel that lets you do this. I'm not fond of skill tricks, myself, because they have a once-per-encounter limit for no apparent reason, but you can take it if you like it better than I do.

I get around this limitation with Magical Trickster (or more specifically, its psionic adaptation,) which can reuse skill tricks as many times as they want thanks to Spontaneous Trickster.

It's one of the reasons Psychic Rogues make for such great rogue replacements :smallsmile:

[ericgrau]

Is there a Mundane way though? I'm sorry I forgot to mention that in the OP. I think the player wants to use a mundane skill check/ability instead of a spell or psionic ability.

Conceptually that's not possible without magic or ki or some such, let alone mechanically. You can take a feat or a dip to get a couple power points to get up the walls. Or slippers of spider climbing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#slippersofSpiderClimbing) aren't too expensive and they do allow hands free movement. That's a lot better deal than 2 feats.

An Ex ability could do it without magic because Ex abilities are supposed to be beyond what's normally physically possible yet without using magic. As semi-homebrew you could apply the "virtually impossible" fudge rule and add a +20 to some DC. Perhaps a DC 45 climb check, or 30-40 if there are footholds to step on (depending on how large). There are a lot of epic skills that do similar things with similar DCs.

[mabriss lethe]

If you don't want to use Up the Walls or Walk the Walls, I'd second re-skinning existing skill rules to cover it, either as a "jump" or a "climb."