Game Theory: how much abuse can be crammed into a level 1?

[toapat]

A TO exersize inspired by this strip of the comic Chainmail bikini (http://shawntionary.com/chainmailbikini/?p=37)

Simply put, without Resorting to the Feat caster, how much rules abuse can you cram into a level one, first level character?

Rules:
Gestalt is mandatory but restricted to 2 classes.
you may qualify into a PrC on the alternate side of the gestalt.
ECL must be Lvl 1, so no punpun

[Slipperychicken]

ECL must be Lvl 1, so no punpun

You can do pun-pun at level 1, with a Paladin optimized for his Knowledge(Planes) check.

[toapat]

You can do pun-pun at level 1, with a Paladin optimized for his Knowledge(Planes) check.

punpun is a series of events that yields an ECL infinite character

also, you have to have a native Know (Planes) class skill to pull it off. otherwise it works

[dextercorvia]

Simply put, without Resorting to the Feat caster, how much rules abuse can you cram into a level one, first level character?


You realize the Versatile Domain Generalist and the feat caster are different, right? They are both high cheese, but VDG is even easier to pull off with Gestalt -- that saves at least a feat, so we can add in some other tricks

[toapat]

You realize the Versatile Domain Generalist and the feat caster are different, right? They are both high cheese, but VDG is even easier to pull off with Gestalt -- that saves at least a feat, so we can add in some other tricks

my problem with the Feat caster is its lazy, it technically shouldnt work, but it does and it lets you abuse things way out of your league way too early.

besides that, templates

[dextercorvia]

my problem with the Feat caster is its lazy, it technically shouldnt work, but it does and it lets you abuse things way out of your league way too early.

besides that, templates

Sure, but you ruled out the feat caster, which take 10 or 11 feats to pull off. Within the bounds of your contest, the Versatile Domain Generalist (who I actually did play once -- Her name is Vera) is still possible.

[toapat]

Sure, but you ruled out the feat caster, which take 10 or 11 feats to pull off. Within the bounds of your contest, the Versatile Domain Generalist (who I actually did play once -- Her name is Vera) is still possible.

and get optimizing.

[Lightlawbliss]

on the ECL requirement: punpun is technically ECL 1 when you go punpun at level 1. ECL is only the sum of all your hd+LA. Punpun doesn't add hd or la.

and before you think to change that to CR: CR is not good at measuring anything. There are epic CR monsters that a lvl 7 could kill all week.

[toapat]

on the ECL requirement: punpun is technically ECL 1 when you go punpun at level 1. ECL is only the sum of all your hd+LA. Punpun doesn't add hd or la.

and before you think to change that to CR: CR is not good at measuring anything. There are epic CR monsters that a lvl 7 could kill all week.

i know what ECL is and Punpun is a series of events that create a nigh-infinitely powerful creature, with infinte HD. if you think he doesnt get that you havent read the most recent one

[Snowbluff]

A TO exersize inspired by this strip of the comic Chainmail bikini (http://shawntionary.com/chainmailbikini/?p=37)


I actually strongly suggest that everyone carry 2 bucklers.

1 Empyreal +5 Buckler.
1 +5 Buckler.
(and 2 defending spiked gauntlets)
(and 10 defending poison rings)

Then you can get away with wearing nothing and still having a good AC.

[toapat]

I actually strongly suggest that everyone carry 2 bucklers.

1 Empyreal +5 Buckler.
1 +5 Buckler.
(and 2 defending spiked gauntlets)
(and 10 defending poison rings)

Then you can get away with wearing nothing and still having a good AC.

if only that actually mattered in 3.5, where there is no armor facing and shield bonuses dont stack

[Snowbluff]

if only that actually mattered in 3.5, where there is no armor facing and shield bonuses dont stack

Only 1 is for a shield bonus. The other has the Empyreal property, which swaps out the enhancement to shield bonus with sacred to all Saves. By splitting up the secondary properties, like Soulfire, you cut costs overall.

[Grod_The_Giant]

1. Have a Con of 17+
2. Take the feat "Mind over Body."
3. Contact Festering Anger.
4. Intentionally fail your Fort saves to overcome the disease.

Each day, you take 1d3 con damage (dropping you to a minimum of Con 14), heal Con mod+1 points of ability damage (minimum 3, after the damage), and gain +2 strength.

5. Wait. You'll gain +730 Strength/year. If you pick a race with a Con bonus and start with an 18 you can advance into Old age (a Venerable dwarf could have a Strength bonus of over 180,000); if you're planning more for the future, you can be an Elan with an Amulet of Health and a fast-time plane and get an arbitrarily high score.

Alternately, an Orc Spirit Lion Whirling Frenzy barbarian is pretty near the top for practical optimization at level 1.

[Story]

It's not quite level 1, but I once created a level 2 Diplomancer that could convert everyone from Hostile to Helpful as a standard action without rolling. Sadly, it doesn't work at level 1, even with gestalt, due to the lack of skill synergy bonuses.

[eggynack]

i know what ECL is and Punpun is a series of events that create a nigh-infinitely powerful creature, with infinte HD. if you think he doesnt get that you havent read the most recent one
But if there's a most recent version that has that, and a less recent version that doesn't have that, and they both happen at level one, then we can just use the version that's ECL 1. I'm pretty sure that pun-pun can maintain his existence within the ECL bounds of this exercise.

[Just to Browse]

I think the trick to this is finding 2-3 super abusive level 1 builds and mixing them together. If there was a way of pulling off the Festering Anger trick with the level 1 marshal T-Rex master, I think that would be pretty competitive.

EDIT: Pun-pun is just a method of obtaining large amounts of power via the Sarrukh's class feature. You can get infinite hit dice, infinite divine rank, infinite stats, etc. But none of those are necessary and none are tied to each other, so you can totally get infinite divine rank without gaining hit dice.

[mabriss lethe]

Commoner 1 with Death Devotion.
1.Activate DD
2.Commit Suicide using DD enhanced weapon.
3.Rise as a Wight
4.Begin the Wightocalypse.

[Inevitability]

It's not quite level 1, but I once created a level 2 Diplomancer that could convert everyone from Hostile to Helpful as a standard action without rolling. Sadly, it doesn't work at level 1, even with gestalt, due to the lack of skill synergy bonuses.

Primary contact, from cityscape maybe? It'd give you synergy from at least one skill.


But, back to topic, how about the omnificer or whatever it was called? The one who knew everything?
While it does require a huge amount of XP for crafting, you can still be level 1 by the time it's done, if I'm not mistaken.

[TiaC]

Remember to take 3 bloodline levels at level one.

Also, maybe you should play a race with high RHD and get them drained away first.

Another racial trick is to take only the first level of the Half-Giant racial class so you can qualify for primordial giant with no LA.

Abuse the sacrifice rules from BoED

If you can get the money, get opalescent glare cast on you by a caster with wisdom of 50+. Duration Instantaneous is your friend.

[Reshy]

It's not quite level 1, but I once created a level 2 Diplomancer that could convert everyone from Hostile to Helpful as a standard action without rolling. Sadly, it doesn't work at level 1, even with gestalt, due to the lack of skill synergy bonuses.

I'd like to see this actually.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd like to see this actually.

It's not that hard to build for the DC 60 for a rushed (full-round action) diplomacy check from hostile to helpful. I don't know how he's getting it down to a standard action, though.

If you really want to Diplomance, though, you want Fanatic, which means the NPC will gladly give his life to serve you. That's only one step over Helpful, but there's a problem: it takes DC 150 to go from Hostile to Fanatic. However, it's easy if you're a Bard: After bumping lower-class listeners ("commoners and other folk of humble station") up to Helpful with diplomacy, use the Harmonica's bardic music ability (Song and Silence pg. 45) as a Standard action by spending a use of Bardic Music to move those listeners up to Fanatic.

[Vaz]

Naberius' Silver Tongue makes it a standard action.

[Story]

I'd like to see this actually.

Here it is. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?274056-Earliest-Diplomancer&p=14811472)

[Darrin]

Abuse the sacrifice rules from BoED


You mean BoVD. Here's an example (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15634823&postcount=19).

[weckar]

Are incarnate astral constructs [Rudimentary Intelligence] allowed? That would give us two class levels to work with....

[Andezzar]

1. Have a Con of 17+
2. Take the feat "Mind over Body."
3. Contact Festering Anger.
4. Intentionally fail your Fort saves to overcome the disease.

Each day, you take 1d3 con damage (dropping you to a minimum of Con 14), heal Con mod+1 points of ability damage (minimum 3, after the damage), and gain +2 strength.It does not work that way. You only heal 1 point per day:
Points lost to ability damage return at the rate of 1 point per day (or double that if the character gets complete bed rest) to each damaged ability, and the spells lesser restoration and restoration offset ability damage as well.So unless you have some way to remove the other points, you will die eventually, at least unless you get complete rest, which would make adventuring pretty difficult.

[Doc_Maynot]

It does not work that way. You only heal 1 point per day:So unless you have some way to remove the other points, you will die eventually, at least unless you get complete rest, which would make adventuring pretty difficult.

That's what Mind Over Body (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mind_Over_Body) is for.

However, just note that festering anger requires you to make a will save or attack the cause of your anger. And if they can't attack the cause of the anger they will target allies, minions, or symbols that remind him of the cause of their anger.

[Graypairofsocks]

on the ECL requirement: punpun is technically ECL 1 when you go punpun at level 1. ECL is only the sum of all your hd+LA. Punpun doesn't add hd or la.

and before you think to change that to CR: CR is not good at measuring anything. There are epic CR monsters that a lvl 7 could kill all week.

Could you tell me which ones?

The only one I know is Tarrasque(I think there are tons of ways for low level parties to defeat it, mainly involving flying iirc).