One villain for each hero?

[TidePriestess]

Just today, I realized that it seems that, of the people pursuing the Gates, four of the villainous factions are explicitly tied to the story of one of the OotS members. Xykon is Roy's villain, Tarquin is Elan's villain, the IFCC is Vaarsuvius' villain, and the High Priest of Hel is Durkon's. And if Bozzok comes into play again, as he may well given his sudden reappearance at the end of the Girard's Gate arc, he'd be Haley's villain.

Which makes me wonder if this is a deliberate theme. And if so... who would be Belkar's villain? Belkar himself, somehow? Kurtulmak or Tiamat, for all the kobolds he's killed (though one would think Tiamat would want more revenge on Vaarsuvius...)? It also makes me wonder where Redcloak is left, as he seems to be one of the nine sides the demon cockroach mentioned, but has no ties in particular to any of the Order... perhaps the nine sides are the Order, their six rivals, Redcloak and one last one--the Snarl itself?

[FujinAkari]

Which makes me wonder if this is a deliberate theme. And if so... who would be Belkar's villain?

Hinjo is Belkar's "villain"

[Gift Jeraff]

Belkar's most personal foes have been Windstriker and the High Priest of Hel.

I don't think this is a deliberate pattern, though.

[Nilehus]

I'd say Miko would be the closest equivalent. Before the Order rose to defend him, she was unrelenting and merciless, but after the entire Order stood between her and Belkar, she wanted to murder all of them.

As for current villains... Only one that comes to mind is HPoH. After all, he never would've enslaved Durkon if not for Belkar, and he actually feels remorse. Belkar doesn't know for a concrete fact that HPoH exists, but he has a gut feeling.

Other than that, no one springs to mind sadly. Unless Belkar turns the Sapphire Guard against the Order.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Belkar has managed to make so many people mad at him that he has no single enemy. However, he does have a few enemies more important than others, probably Hinjo and Windstriker, as others have said.

[Silferdrake]

Actually, I think that Belkar and Hinjo's relationship has been surprisingly good. Belkar saving Hinjo's life, Hinjo completely misunderstanding what kind of person Belkar is and so on. There is however one other (living) paladin that has a beef with Belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html) who is quite prepared to gut him with his own hands. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html)

[Rodin]

Belkar has managed to make so many people mad at him that he has no single enemy. However, he does have a few enemies more important than others, probably Hinjo and Windstriker, as others have said.

Windstriker will turn out to be the final boss, and will merge with the Snarl before taking on heroes and villains alike in a massive Battle Royale. The only one to survive will be Mr. Scruffy, who defeats all the rest. (Elan's happy ending is the AWESOME song that tells the tale of the battle).

[MagicalMeat]

The way you capitalized the words "battle royale" made me picture the OotS cast fighting each other to survive on a deserted island, being overseen by the IFCC.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Actually, I think that Belkar and Hinjo's relationship has been surprisingly good. Belkar saving Hinjo's life, Hinjo completely misunderstanding what kind of person Belkar is and so on. There is however one other (living) paladin that has a beef with Belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html) who is quite prepared to gut him with his own hands. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html)

That's a good point, actually. Especially when we consider that Belkar will be saving Hinjo's life again at some point, and Hinjo seems to think that Belkar has reformed. Whereas, as you correctly pointed out, O-Chul doesn't think this.

[Vendanna]

Dunno about the One villain for each hero, it doesn't really need to be that way in order to have an interesting story.

Now, about the 9 Sides interested in the gates (as said by demon roaches) I'm more inclined to think they are related to the alignement system, which is incidentally also 9 different alignements Ranging from Lawful Good (the azurites) to Chaotic Evil (Xykon)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Dunno about the One villain for each hero, it doesn't really need to be that way in order to have an interesting story.

Now, about the 9 Sides interested in the gates (as said by demon roaches) I'm more inclined to think they are related to the alignement system, which is incidentally also 9 different alignements Ranging from Lawful Good (the azurites) to Chaotic Evil (Xykon)

I'm don't think that that's the case. I mean, obviously alignment differences are a large source of conflicts in OOTS world. However, there are sides like the Order (which ranges from LG to CE), the Vector Legion (possibly covering multiple Evil alignments), and the IFCC (representing three different kinds of fiends, the LE, BE, AND CE ones), meaning that alignment is not what determines who is on a side. Also, there are groups with similar alignments that are either at odds or disinterested with each other.

[Anarion]

Belkar having a backstory complete with its own villainous cast isn't really appropriate for him. The other things mentioned came from developing the story: Haley had a bunch of personal neuroses and it turns out that they make perfect sense when you see the people around whom she grew up. The IFCC acted through V because V's quest for power required a large-scale intervention by some kind of great power. I wouldn't call the IFCC V's villain though, as they're much more broadly focused and have several different pieces on the board.

Belkar's character development has been different. He's been mostly internal and based on events in the comic. He's not motivated by a past or looking for long term goals that require intervention by others. He just wants to do some murdering and live the good life with his cat and now lizard.

[Vinsfeld]

Trigak, the chimera

[Jay R]

There is clear proof that each hero doesn't have his or her own specific villain.

Elan has Nale and Tarquin.

Haley has Sabine, Crystal, and Bozzok.

Vaarsuvius has the ABD and IFCC (and the IFCC isn't one villain).

Since we know the number one isn't a constant, zero villains for Belkar is just as likely as one or two or three.

[snikrept]

The villain in Belkar's backstory is Belkar.

Belkar will probably end up being the downfall of Belkar, sadly.

[Socksy]

Roy has Xykon (Or more likely, Redcloak in the end).
Haley has Crystal and Bozzok.
Elan has Tarquin.
Durkon I suppose has the High Priest of Hel.
V has/had the ABD.
Belkar... Hmmm. I'm not sure.

[Jay R]

The villain in Belkar's backstory is Belkar.

Exactly. If you want a specific foe for Belkar, why are you looking for a villain? Wouldn't a hero be more appropriate?

Maybe a paladin, or some such.

[Anarion]

Roy has Xykon (Or more likely, Redcloak in the end).
Haley has Crystal and Bozzok.
Elan has Tarquin.
Durkon I suppose has the High Priest of Hel.
V has/had the ABD.
Belkar... Hmmm. I'm not sure.

To say that Roy has Xykon, imo, undersells the story. Xykon began as Roy's problem, but has since expanded to a worldwide threat. Moreover, he's got his own story now, and the relations between Xykon, Rescloak, and MitD, are an independent thing from any of the heroes.

[Czhorat]

If you refine it to "an antagonist for each hero" it could be argued that Eugene is Roy's antagonist.

[Kish]

If you redefine it that way, I see no real need to look outside the Order. Roy's antagonist? Belkar. Haley's antagonist? Belkar. Durkon's antagonist? Belkar. Elan's antagonist? Belkar. Vaarsuvius' antagonist? Belkar. Belkar's antagonist? Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, and you.

[goodyarn]

If I have to pick a single antagonist for Belkar, I'd go with the kobold Oracle. Does their conflict have great fight scenes? No. But it's a long and lasting hate which as I understand it, began even before this web comic. What is Belkar's main struggle right now? Death is coming for him, as the kobold gleefully prophesied. Belkar can't stab his way out of that. Heck, even killing the Oracle does nothing to a guy who can see his death coming and arrange for his immediate resurrection. Belkar may dispatch kobold mooks by the dozens, but with the Oracle, he has met his Nemesis.

Besides, they *enjoy* hating each other.

Welcome to the village of "Lick My Orange Balls, Halfling."

[Reddish Mage]

There is clear proof that each hero doesn't have his or her own specific villain.

Elan has Nale and Tarquin.

Haley has Sabine, Crystal, and Bozzok.

Vaarsuvius has the ABD and IFCC (and the IFCC isn't one villain).

Since we know the number one isn't a constant, zero villains for Belkar is just as likely as one or two or three.


Nale appears to be out of the picture as is ABD, and Sabine and Crystal Are clearly henchmen. I think the OPs observation that particular villains can be closely tied to particular members of the order is astute (red cloak does appear to be an exception). However, I think Belkar does not have a villain tied to him because Belkar is unique in several ways. He is originally CE, was a one dimensional character and still and will likely forever lack a detailed backstory. The Giant said he wouldn't write an origin story to explain how Belkar became a murderous psychopath (as Belkar is meant to be funny not sad), so don't look to the backstory for a villain. As for one developing, unfortunately Belkar's villains (Miko, his evil opposite in the LG) are gone, so one would have to develop.

I am not certain the Giant is checking off boxes with developing villains however, so I do not know if Belkar will get his.

[Poppy Appletree]

Since we know the number one isn't a constant, zero villains for Belkar is just as likely as one or two or three.

The number one isn't a constant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_%28mathematics%29)? Mathematics as we know it will surely crumble! :smalleek:

:smallbiggrin:

[Ionathus]

It's tough to assign one villain to each hero: their goals often don't add up.
I think a more interesting - perhaps simply reworded - question would be, "During the climactic showdown, who gets to kill whom?"

I can see Roy killing Xykon, with 100% certainty unless The Giant pulls something crazy (which we should just assume I'm factoring into all other calculations.)

I can see O-Chul killing Redcloak, with 75% certainty (remember, they've got a bit of a rivalry, and O-Chul and Lien were already on their way to Kraagor's Gate! I'm quite excited to get more of O-Chul.)

I can see Elan "handling" Tarquin, if he resurfaces, with 100% certainty. If Tarquin returns, Elan will be the one who defeats him, not necessarily fatally.

Vaarsuvius may be the one to "handle" the IFCC, though it's a tossup as to whether or not he/she will actually be able to do anything tangibly. Likely not. Perhaps a moral victory. 50% likelihood.

Durkon has his beef with the HPoH. This ties in to Hel, who is likely beyond his mortal capabilities. Regardless, I expect this will be his battle. 90%.

Haley: if the Thieves' Guild returns, they're her problem. If not, I expect she'll back up Elan. 30% certainty on what she's going to wind up doing.

And Belkar...well, now, Belkar is just going to kill each and every single thing that gets in his way until he breathes his last, eh? I would expect nothing less from a Shoeless Sexy God of War. 200% certainty that Belkar will stab the *bleep* out of everything.

Those are my ideas! Disagree with them, I beseech thee.

[ti'esar]

Those are my ideas! Disagree with them, I beseech thee.

While this is kind of off-topic, I think it's extremely unlikely that Roy will kill Xykon. Even before the illusion, I strongly doubted that Xykon would be defeated in the sort of stand-up fight the Order is expecting; now that we've actually seen it play out, I'm certain of it. He's too far above their power level and I think it ought to be pretty clear by now that this isn't a story where leveling up is the way to defeating the bad guys. I suppose it's possible that Roy could still be responsible for Xykon's demise in some way other than just putting a sword through his skull, but I wouldn't say it's anywhere near a 100% certainty.

I don't know if that undermines the idea that Xykon is "Roy's villain" or not.

(Incidentally, I also think it's more likely that Xykon will kill Redcloak - possibly indirectly - then any of the good guys).

[The Pilgrim]

Roy -> Xykon
Haley -> Bozzok
Elan -> Nale, then Tarquin
Vaarsuvius -> IFFC
Durkon -> Hel
Belkar -> Miko, then The Oracle

Sapphire Guard -> Redcloak

[Jay R]

One of the many problems with this idea is that many very different ideas are being lumped together.

Xykon doesn't even remember Roy. Roy is after Xykon, but Xykon is not after Roy.

Nale didn't even know Elan until the two groups met. Tarquin wants Elan to join him.

Crystal and Haley hated each other on first sight.

The IFCC want to use Vaarsuvius for a plot that doesn't really have anything to do with V. They just want to stop V from interfering.

There is no parallel structure here.

[GideonWells]

Roy has Xykon (Or more likely, Redcloak in the end).
Haley has Crystal and Bozzok.
Elan has Tarquin.
Durkon I suppose has the High Priest of Hel.
V has/had the ABD.
Belkar... Hmmm. I'm not sure.

Baring new information, it looks like it is an either/or situation with Durkon and HPoH. So I would lump Xykon/Redcloak as a pair to the dual of Roy and Durkon.

Though with the tendency to have an opposite order again and again show up (to some degree) there will probably be an uber team in the end. I just don't know if it is going to be clear cut who is going to be in it. I can see Tarquin being in it if he stumbles into meeting Xykon in the desert. V doesn't have a clear villain. The fiends may be involved, but they don't feel right. The character(s) are going to be foils of a sort. At least superficially. I just don't see the fiends being this for V unless it is three different ways he could justify drifting into evil.

The strangest thing right now is that if said super group forms, I almost see the MITD being Belkar's foil. Belkar has been deviating from chaotic evil for a while. He's slowly becoming the mask, but has no one to teach him how to be good because they all think he is irredeemably evil. The MITD has been making similar increases in characterization.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Baring new information, it looks like it is an either/or situation with Durkon and HPoH. So I would lump Xykon/Redcloak as a pair to the dual of Roy and Durkon.

I really don't see how Durkon and Redcloak would match up, other than that they are both clerics. Durkon and the High Priest of How seem to be a pretty clear match to me.

I don't see each villain having a hero anyways because there are so many villains that share common heroes,and vice versa.