[PF] Making a Combat-Effective Skill Monkey?

[magotter]

Hey all, bit of a conundrum. I'm set to join 3 other players for a campaign. The DM assures me there will be a nice blend of combat, socialization, and skill, so I'm trying to spread myself out a bit more than just making a Tier-3 specialist.

The current party composition is a Scarred Witchdoctor with a debuff/CC focus, a Social/Enchantment Sorcerer, and a random third that will likely be physical based. Unfortunately, this party lacks quite a lot in the skill department, so I'm looking to fill that gap. We're running pure Pathfinder, any non-3rd party material on d20pfsrd.com is allowed; no archives of nethys, no DSP. We'll be starting at level 5, max HP (and roll thereafter), 25 point buy, appropriate starting gold.

However, Making a pure skill monkey is good and all, but I don't want to just be plinking shots from an arrow or singing out minor buffs when the metal meets flesh. To that end:

What is the most [Combat/Social/Skill/Etc] effective Skill Monkey you can think of?


My Primary goal is to have a minimum of 8 Skill Points per level, with no roof. The sorcerer actually has enough INT so that all the social skills and Sense Motive are covered, but I really wouldn't mind some overlap. The witchdoctor and the meleemancer have no skill focus.
My Secondary Goal is to be able to be effective in combat. Whether by being able to deal enough damage to make up for the other casters' lack thereof, or to be able to ensure enemies are taken out. with two casters, I'd like to ensure fights don't last more than 5 rounds a piece.
My Tertiary Goal is to be Int-based if at all possible. From what I can infer of the GM, Knowledge is going to be somewhat useful in this campaign, so if I can find an Int-based full caster with a base of 8 skill points per level, that'd just be the best.



My initial thoughts are to make a Bard and utilize versatile performance and bardic knowledge, but I also like the idea of a Mad Bomber Grenadier Alchemist. Investigator would probably be perfect, were it not for the fact Studied Combat is a bit weak and the class isn't currently allowed as the book isn't out yet.

Thoughts? How can I get the most out of my monkey?

[Haldir]

I'd invest heavily into item creation. I have had great success with this concept by creating different kinds of traps and devices to augment the parties combat potential. Alchemist would not be a bad pick, honestly.

[Sayt]

I advise the Slayer, which is currently in beta, but available free from Paizo.

1) It's 6+Int skills, so with 14 int, or 12 as a human, or even just 10 as a human with favored class skills. They also have a focus ability which applies to attack, damage, Slayer ability DCs and a selection of skill checks (Bluff, Perception and Sense Motive, and after seventh level, Intimidate, Stealth and Disguise) when used against the target, and they can access and Trapfinding/trapsense as a single talent

2) Full BAB, 5d6 sneak attack damage, the above focus ability. They gain access to a mix of Talents, including a selection of Rogue and Ninja talents, as well as Ranger Combat Style Feats.

3) It doesn't get a huge number of Knowledges, but it has a tertiary Int focus, gaining using Int for it's various DCs, notably slowing strike and assassinate.

[Bickerstaff]

Summoners are great, as always. Give your Summoner the social skills you'll need (hooray for Cha-based casters), and the Eidolon can handle other skills you might need, like Stealth and Perception (an Eidolon makes a great scout, if built for it).

As far as combat capability: Summon Monster X. Almost no problem it can't solve, in one fashion or another.

[Slipperychicken]

Human Magus, >=16 Int, favored bonus in skill points. Now you're a competent melee combatant with 8 skill points/level and spellcasting.

[Kudaku]

Normally I'd suggest a bard or an alchemist, but your party is pretty heavy on arcane spellcasting as it is. It's a little different, but have you considered the Inquisitor? With a pb of 25 you'd be able to afford a 14 int (for 8 skill points/level) without too much trouble and the heresy inquisition makes you an excellent secondary face character. Access to divine spells would round out your party nicely.

[jaydubs]

Ranger is another class to consider. 6+int skills, full BAB, and brings in an animal companion.

[RavynsLand]

1 level of rogue, + Able Learner
Then move on to a class with adequate skill points, like Warblade.

[stack]

1 level of rogue, + Able Learner
Then move on to a class with adequate skill points, like Warblade.

You missed the pf tag.

[RavynsLand]

You missed the pf tag.

I did.
Apply-polly-lodgies.

[grarrrg]

1 level of rogue, + Able Learner
Then move on to a class with adequate skill points, like Warblade.

(skipping over the 'wrong source' bit, as that's been covered)
On a related note, take whatever class you want, but slap on the Trap Finder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/mummy-s-mask/trap-finder) trait. Now you don't even need to LOOK at Rogue.

I put my vote in for Inquisitor by the way. Go Human for the extra Skill point per level.

[Blyte]

I will show you my kirin style practitioner
--
human
2 alchy (mindchemist)
2 monk (moms)
1 rogue
X sleepless detective
X fighter (lore warden)


feats-
1 point blank shot
1 precise shot
3 extra discovery
3 kirin style
4 kirin strike
5 alertness (feat tax for sleepless detective)

discoveries-
tangle foot bombs
smoke bombs

class abilities-
bonus feat brew potion
bonus feat throw anything
perfect recall (double int mod on knowledge skills)
evasion
unarmed strike
monk +wis to ac
bomb
stunning fist

when you kirin strike a monster with a bomb you will be doing 1d6+ x3 INT mod, as a touch attack

then the monster is entangled, stuck, and surrounded by smoke.

you will want to get goggles of smoke cutting, so you can then pepper them with darts, more bombs, or needles from a robe of needles. while they are blind inside the smoke bomb, you will also be doing sneak damage to them.

sleepless detective helps bring your intelligence bonus more to bare in the upper levels.. adding it to perception, sense motive, and diplomacy(for information gathering)... it's honestly an all around cool and viable prestige class, which is rare in pathfinder.

in the upper levels, I suggest getting the crane style and perhaps deflect arrow.

with crane + adaptive repost (sleepless detective) + deflect arrow, you will be one befuddling archer skill monkey, who can still contribute well enough damage wise.

with likely a 24+ int bonus with your cognative mutagen, you will be adding +21 to your bomb hits

edit: it might be worth while to pick up a 2nd rogue level, to take the talent "trap spotter", so you will get 2!!!! passive rolls to detect things when coupled with your sleepless detective ability "eye for detail". there is nothing you will miss.

ohh and edit: talk to the DM, monk+rogue+detective are all 3/4 BAB, ask him to allow you to stay on the 3/4 BAB chart, or you will really take a pounding from all the dipping. a reasonable DM will allow it.

edit #3: why have I never encountered this broken trap finder trait??? ok, skip the rogue+detective in my build, take that trait +magical knack (alchemist), and go straight mind chemist....

[Anlashok]

Seconding trapfinder. Rogues are pretty bad in Pathfinder.

Inquisitor and Bard on the other hand both have really cool options available to them, can completely replace the rogue, and get plenty of skills with the right options.

Shame there's no Factotum or Beguiler in Pathfinder, but ah well.


Go Human for the extra Skill point per level.

Clearly no one read the OP. He needs to be a Vanara.

[Slipperychicken]

Clearly no one read the OP. He needs to be a Vanara.

I just spent like a minute scouring the OP before I realized what you meant.

[grarrrg]

Clearly no one read the OP. He needs to be a Vanara.

I just spent like a minute scouring the OP before I realized what you meant.

*rimshot*
But either way, with +DEX, +WIS, and -CHA, Vanara make pretty solid (if not spectacular) Inquisitor races.

[Spore]

Ugh, Non-Monk Non-Monkey Style Vanaras are just breaking MY immersion!

Honestly I like the Scout Rogue with Dodge Mobility and Spring Attack. It's just one melee sneak attack per round but that one is safe. Get UMD and a wand of expeditious retreat and be a "melee archer". Other than that I'd second Inquisitor.

[Killer Angel]

With an Half-elf, you can take Breadth of experience, which is something I recommend.

[Erik Vale]

Rogue with Scout archtype. All the niceness of a rogue, reliable methods of sneak attack. These also encourage you to either remain mounted [movement, I think you can do mounted], or to enter melee [charging]... Pounce requires a little more than a dip, unless you can grab that archtype that allows spirit binding and grap the spirit that grants eidelons, and your DM allows 3rd party.

[grarrrg]

With an Half-elf, you can take Breadth of experience, which is something I recommend.

A Half-Elf would have to be in the oldest age category to qualify for that feat.
As nice as it is, I think he'd prefer to not have -6 to all his physical stats.

[Person_Man]

My experience with Pathfinder is that there is no such thing as a Skill Monkey build, except for at low levels:


1) Having a Skill as a class Skill only grants you a +3 bonus. You do not have to pay the 1/2 penalty per Skill point as you did in 3.X.

2) Most of the useful Skills have been consolidated. Thus it takes relatively few Skill points to be good at the most of the most common Skill tasks.

3) Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate that works like non-magical mind control has been removed.

4) DC's for many Skill tasks remain fixed. Thus even if you wanted to invest ranks in something obscure and rarely used like Appraise, at most you need your 20 minus your Intelligence bonus minus 10 (since you can always Take 10 when you're not threatened or rushed) minus 3 (if it's a class Skill) ranks in it.

5) The armor check penalty on most armors can usually be reduced to 0ish via the right combination of materials and/or magic.

6) You can boost specific Skills by very large numbers with relatively inexpensive magical enhancements and/or spells.



Thus pretty much ANY build with high Intelligence and/or a large number of Skill ranks can be an effective Skill Monkey in Pathfinder at mid-high levels.