Spirit Shaman to PrC Paladin?

[Warlocknthewind]

Alright, I've been trying to crunch a legal way for a paladin to cast druid spells, and I think I may have deduced a legal way :smallamused:

+Spirit Shaman 4 for prot. from evil and casting
+1 full BA class (proabably crusader or h-orc paragon w/frenzy)
+Knight of the Raven 3 for turn undead, Sun Domain, and a pseudo familiar to boost with spells
+Prestige Paladin 2
+ Full BA/CL prestige class like Fist of Raziel or something along those lines

I just wanted an example of a tribal or uncivilized style paladin, so is this legal RAW? If no, how can it be made so?

How can this be improved?

How can it be min/maxed?

Thanks Playground,
Warlocknthewind

[Red Fel]

Alright, I've been trying to crunch a legal way for a paladin to cast druid spells, and I think I may have deduced a legal way :smallamused:

+Spirit Shaman 4 for prot. from evil and casting
+1 full BA class (proabably crusader or h-orc paragon w/frenzy)
+Knight of the Raven 3 for turn undead, Sun Domain, and a pseudo familiar to boost with spells
+Prestige Paladin 2
+ Full BA/CL prestige class like Fist of Raziel or something along those lines

I just wanted an example of a tribal or uncivilized style paladin, so is this legal RAW? If no, how can it be made so?

How can this be improved?

How can it be min/maxed?

Thanks Playground,
Warlocknthewind

Well, Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) requires several things: LG Alignment BAB +4 Knowledge (religion) 2, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2, Ride 4 Mounted Combat feat Ability to cast Protection from Evil Turn Undead
Okay, so that's a lot. Let's look at Spirit Shaman now.
Spirit Shaman has no alignment requirement. So you can be an LG SS, fine and dandy. Spirit Shaman has a 3/4 BAB progression. So you'll have BAB +4 at level 6, sooner if you multiclass. Spirit Shaman does not get Knowledge (religion) or Knowledge (nobility and royalty) as class skills, but it does get Ride. So again, you'll either soak the cross-class penalties or multiclass. Mounted Combat is a feat requiring only 1 rank in Ride. You can get that easily. Spirit Shaman casts from the Druid spell list. Druids do not get Protection from Evil. You have to get it elsewhere. I know, Spirit Shaman 4 gets "Blessing of the Spirits," but that's not Protection from Evil; it just functions like it. Spirit Shaman does not get Turn Undead either. You have to get it elsewhere.
Basically, a lot of this can be solved with a Cleric dip. A 1-level dip in Cleric will get you Turn Undead, and you can take Protection from Evil as your level 1 spell. Two problems solved. You still have to soak the skill costs, but the rest is manageable.

The issue, I think, is the chassis. PrPal was designed to be build around a Cleric-style divine class, not a Druid-style divine class. It synchs comfortably with Clerics and the like. Admittedly, Spirit Shaman is a very nice choice for a ghostbuster, as its abilities fit comfortably around the idea of slaying incorporeal undead. And that's amplified by working into PrPal. But there are still some conceptual discrepancies.

It sounds like you're cobbling together concepts. You start with the uncivilized ghostbuster, and that's fine. Then you go into PrPal, which by its requirements (Mounted Combat, Knowledge (nobility and royalty)) is anything but uncivilized. Then you suggest something like Fist of Raziel, which goes from "civilized knight" to "angelic smighter." Your idea is all over the board. Are you trying to defeat spirits? Slay demons? Get lots of uses of Smite Evil?

[Warlocknthewind]

I'm trying to get more of a "Lawful Good cause that's the natural conclusion of what people should exemplify" kind of character, utilizing the idea that the gods are bot what led to such a conclusion, but philosophy through study of nature and the spirits, mainly the Raven. I thought Knight of the Raven fit flavor and crunch wise, adding turn undead so I could get into PrC Paladin.

I was not aware the druid list did not involve Protection from Evil, which kinda throws the idea out the window...

I want to stay away from using the gods as a resource, which is inconsistent with Fist of Raziel, but I was simply unsure of where to go after Prestige Paladin, which is more of a two level dip.

Is there any way to get Protection from Evil on my list without entering cleric? It's in a setting where most paladins are a holier than now jerks who only maintain alignment by donations and crusading against orcs & such, not intention. This character is supposed to come out of the savage wilds, and make civilisation think again on what a paladin is supposed to behave.

Any suggestions on an alternative Prestige Class than fist of Raziel?

Thank you for the input!!

[Xerlith]

The standard response:

Spirit Shaman4/Crusader1/KotR3/Ruby Knight Vindicator10

Paladin-esque, wild, inspired and raven-y character with a martial and spiritual side. Outpaladins the paladin, in fact.

The only way of adding Protection from Evil to a Druid's (and Druid's only!) spell list is by the Gatekeeper Initiate feat (ECS).

EDIT: A PrC Ranger dip and Edgewalker Sentinel feat does that too.

EDIT2: Go wild.

Savage Divine Bard (NG) 4/Crusader1/KotR3/PrcPal2/Ruby Knight Vindicator (Or Fist of Raziel).

Inspiring, wild, paladin squared. Crusader and KotR are enough to progress from chaotic to lawful (Character Development FTW), ending in taking up the paladin mantle. And inspiring still. Optimize Inspire Courage a bit. Dragonfire Inspiration comes to mind immediately. If you do so, you can pretty much dump Str and go with Intuitive Attack.

[Warlocknthewind]

That's seriously the only way?? Surprising, with the level of customizable transparency in 3.5

I suppose that works, I could play a "Raven Knight Vindicater"

Sounds fantastic!

Thanks, RKV hadn't occurred to me!

Edit: holy Raven Birdman! That build with Savage Divine bard is spondiforous! I love me some bardic music, and it fits perfectly with the fluff, savage, exemplary, and will show any base paladin how to do his job.

This has blown me out of the water, and it's even better than I had first imagined.

THANK YOU!!

[Shadus]

Gatekeeper initiate from ECS adds protection from evil to your spell list.

[RavynsLand]

If you don't pick Killoren as race then you're living life wrong. Roleplaying-wise they're tailored for exactly this, and gameplay-wise they can have access to knowledge buffs and smite, which also aids exactly this.

[Warlocknthewind]

Killoren is the perfect race!

That's what I like with my fluff- some crunch! Goes together as good as sweet & savory :smallbiggrin:

New, fresh race to the world, first one to figure out this new do-gooder philosophy. Comes wandering out of the forest, all confused as to why all the protectors of the light are big fat jerks, re-writes what it means to be a paladin.

How could this get any better???

[RavynsLand]

Killoren is the perfect race!

That's what I like with my fluff- some crunch! Goes together as good as sweet & savory :smallbiggrin:

New, fresh race to the world, first one to figure out this new do-gooder philosophy. Comes wandering out of the forest, all confused as to why all the protectors of the light are big fat jerks, re-writes what it means to be a paladin.

How could this get any better???

Sounds like you've got it figured out. ;) Good luck on the build, sounds like a really fun idea.

[dextercorvia]

The only way of adding Protection from Evil to a Druid's (and Druid's only!) spell list is by the Gatekeeper Initiate feat (ECS).


You have to get Knowledge Religion as a class skill for either of these to work, but you can dip Sovereign Speaker, or Contemplative to get Protection from Evil on you list.

[WhamBamSam]

You have to get Knowledge Religion as a class skill for either of these to work, but you can dip Sovereign Speaker, or Contemplative to get Protection from Evil on you list.If you feel a little cheesy, you could also do the Knight of the Raven thing from the OP, and have a wand of Extended Substitute Domain you hit yourself with once every week or so. It's also a handy little thing for Domain Wizards.


Killoren is the perfect race!

That's what I like with my fluff- some crunch! Goes together as good as sweet & savory :smallbiggrin:

New, fresh race to the world, first one to figure out this new do-gooder philosophy. Comes wandering out of the forest, all confused as to why all the protectors of the light are big fat jerks, re-writes what it means to be a paladin.

How could this get any better???Well, since he's going RKV, he'll probably be hanging around with a lot of Jasite clergy, who are an especially grim, unpleasant lot. The stickiest up the assiest of the stick up the ass Paladins. So there's another thing to further your concept.

Actually, you could take Heretic of the Faith (choosing to worship a more nature friendly, benevolent concept of Wee Jas) to trade out your Sun Domain for something that grants Protection From Evil. It'd be a bit more elegant than the Substitute Domain suggestion above.