What did Team Evil do since they teleported?

[Quild]

I suppose someone already pointed that out, but Durkon will be the one bringing Death and Destruction.

BUT, Xykon, RC and the MitD teleported to the dungeon a few days before the Order and Durkon will arrive. Does that mean that they didn't manage to bring death and destruction themselves? Were they defeated?

Maybe they were a 9th level cleric spell away from winning, or just lacked a ****load of minions... That's not really plausible but seriously, I can't imagine they didn't manage to do some trouble during these few days.

[Gift Jeraff]

I think the dungeon is beyond Dwarven Lands, not in them.

[elros]

Team Evil teleported to right away to the next gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html) which is heavily defended by paladins that are ready for them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html) (including knowledge of their spell lists and resources (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)).
I imagine there is a lot more action/drama/comedy to come.

[Finagle]

I had hoped since Kraagor's Gate is a straight-up dungeon guarded by the fiercest monsters, we would get an awesome series of fights against high-level opponents, allowing OOTS to really unleash the fury without holding back anything.

However, since Girard's Gate was played as a dungeon, I can't see this happening. :frown: Especially not after the sand elemental being treated as a straight-up monster. More likely, the Order will arrive to find that Xykon and Redcloak have already slaughtered the dungeon inhabitants, and are now camped out around the Gate doing their weeks-long ritual. All that potential awesomeness, and all of it offscreen. We will be told about the action, we will not be seeing the action. Sigh.

[Keltest]

They've been milling about in confusion waiting for their next panel so they can start this part of their story.

[ChristianSt]

heavily defended by paladins that are ready for them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

Have you read that strip? :smallconfused:

Unless you want to imply that "two paladins with the order not to engage the enemy" equals "heavily defended" :smallwink:

[Shale]

Yeah, I think the more relevant factor is that it's guarded by honkin' dangerous monsters.

[factotum]

Have you read that strip? :smallconfused:

Unless you want to imply that "two paladins with the order not to engage the enemy" equals "heavily defended" :smallwink:

Not to mention that O-Chul and Lien are not in the same league as Xykon and Redcloak, power-wise. Xykon single-handedly slaughtered dozens of paladins when he went into the Azure City throne room, and he defeated O-Chul and V a few months later without any great effort on his behalf. Even if the two paladins didn't have explicit orders not to interfere, they wouldn't be more than a bump in the road along the way to the Gate.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

My guess would be that either they are fighting their way though the monsters that Serini had in her dungeon, or that they have already by passed all the obstacles to the Gate and are setting up the ritual.

[zimmerwald1915]

Yeah, I think the more relevant factor is that it's guarded by honkin' dangerous monsters.
In what sense are rocs and purple worms - monsters the Order defeated in War and XPs and Blood Runs in the Family respectively - "honkin' dangerous" to Team Evil?

[AgentofHellfire]

In what sense are rocs and purple worms - monsters the Order defeated in War and XPs and Blood Runs in the Family respectively - "honkin' dangerous" to Team Evil?


How many of them did the Order defeat at once?

For that matter, how do you know those are the most powerful things in there?

[Keltest]

In what sense are rocs and purple worms - monsters the Order defeated in War and XPs and Blood Runs in the Family respectively - "honkin' dangerous" to Team Evil?

Id like to point out the order did not "defeat" the purple worm, they simply distracted it then left.

[zimmerwald1915]

How many of them did the Order defeat at once?

For that matter, how do you know those are the most powerful things in there?
One each, but I have every reason to believe that they were capable of defeating more at the time, and that Team Evil was and remains more capable than the Order. As for the second question, turn it around. What indication besides popular fan speculation is there that there are any other creatures in Kraagor's tower?


Id like to point out the order did not "defeat" the purple worm, they simply distracted it then left.
When did the definition of "defeat" change to "reduce to -10 hit points?"

[Keltest]

When did the definition of "defeat" change to "reduce to -10 hit points?"

When the intent of defeating it is to access something it is guarding. In a dungeon, leading it away then coming back without it is not going to be a feasible tactic.

[zimmerwald1915]

When the intent of defeating it is to access something it is guarding. In a dungeon, leading it away then coming back without it is not going to be a feasible tactic.
And how about simply walking past once you've neutralized it? The Order considered that option with the purple worm in the desert, and only didn't take it because Roy wanted quick transport.

[Keltest]

And how about simply walking past once you've neutralized it? The Order considered that option with the purple worm in the desert, and only didn't take it because Roy wanted quick transport.

How would they neutralize it, short of smacking it unconscious or magically forcing it to be incapacitated?

[elros]

Have you read that strip? :smallconfused:

Unless you want to imply that "two paladins with the order not to engage the enemy" equals "heavily defended" :smallwink:
But when one of the them is "the last paladin of a conquered city, beaten but never broken, sworn to stop the evil lich who wiped out his holy order (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html)," then I think it swings things in their favor. But you are probably right in the big scheme of things...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

But when one of the them is "the last paladin of a conquered city, beaten but never broken, sworn to stop the evil lich who wiped out his holy order (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html)," then I think it swings things in their favor. But you are probably right in the big scheme of things...

I really think that trying to use the MitD's logic in this argument is not going to work. It really only worked on Xykon because Xykon was inclined to believe it. It is definitely not a sound argument, knowing what we know.

[Keltest]

I really think that trying to use the MitD's logic in this argument is not going to work. It really only worked on Xykon because Xykon was inclined to believe it. It is definitely not a sound argument, knowing what we know.

when was the last time facts had anything to do with a theory here?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

when was the last time facts had anything to do with a theory here?

Forgive me for trying to have a rational discussion.

[Keltest]

Forgive me for trying to have a rational discussion.

Ill let you off with a warning. This time.

[AgentofHellfire]

One each, but I have every reason to believe that they were capable of defeating more at the time, and that Team Evil was and remains more capable than the Order. As for the second question, turn it around. What indication besides popular fan speculation is there that there are any other creatures in Kraagor's tower?

Why would you assume that capability?

As for the other point, it's a dungeon built by epic heroes to hold off earth-shattering threats. If it isn't at least a challenge to epic characters I'd hope for there to be a reason.



When did the definition of "defeat" change to "reduce to -10 hit points?"

Well, that's probably a lot closer to Xykon's...

[ChowGuy]

Have you read that strip? :smallconfused:

Yes, this. The answer to the OP's question is right there: They've been growing Xykon new leg bones. (Don't leave invvade someone else's home without them!) :smalltongue:

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

*stares at one of the linked strips*

"We'll contact the Order if the lich arrives." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

That's what O-Chul said before he and Lien went to scout out Kraagor's gate. Yet, we haven't heard from them. Why?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

*stares at one of the linked strips*

"We'll contact the Order if the lich arrives." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

That's what O-Chul said before he and Lien went to scout out Kraagor's gate. Yet, we haven't heard from them. Why?
Interesting question. We know that nothing is happenin with Hinjo, since he was able to contact them here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0893.html) (unless something happened to them within the last couple of days). So, either O-Chul and Lien just haven't reported anything that was worth contacting the Order for, or they are unable to contact Hinjo, which could be for a variety of reasons.

[Keltest]

Interesting question. We know that nothing is happenin with Hinjo, since he was able to contact them here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0893.html) (unless something happened to them within the last couple of days). So, either O-Chul and Lien just haven't reported anything that was worth contacting the Order for, or they are unable to contact Hinjo, which could be for a variety of reasons.

Hinjo actually knew that Xykon was on the move and had his Phylactery. If I had to guess id say that's what the sending was for.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Hinjo actually knew that Xykon was on the move and had his Phylactery. If I had to guess id say that's what the sending was for.

That was point. Hinjo is free from harm, as far as we know, since his people were able to send messages to the Order. We don't know about O-Chul and Lien and why we haven't heard about them.

[Hogwarts9876]

Interesting question. We know that nothing is happenin with Hinjo, since he was able to contact them here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0893.html) (unless something happened to them within the last couple of days). So, either O-Chul and Lien just haven't reported anything that was worth contacting the Order for, or they are unable to contact Hinjo, which could be for a variety of reasons.

Or, unless I'm misreading something here, they could've done it in the between-books timeskip, although we probably would see such an event onscreen.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Or, unless I'm misreading something here, they could've done it in the between-books timeskip, although we probably would see such an event onscreen.

That last part's how I feel. I can't see why there would an important communication between the Order and Hinjo that wouldn't be shown in-comic. I'm going to assume that events like that do not occur until shown. Of course, it is possible such a communication will be shown as having happened, but until it does I will assume no communication took place.

[Quild]

The event that happened to the order after Xykon and RC teleported and before the end of the book happened in only a few hours at most.

I expect the order to be almost arrived to dwarven lands. Anyways my question is about what happened between the teleport and the order arrival.

If the gate is really distinct from dwarven lands, the priority would be about the gate and we'll have to live with vampire Durkon for a while.


My avatar is back but I'm late for work!

[factotum]

If the gate is really distinct from dwarven lands, the priority would be about the gate and we'll have to live with vampire Durkon for a while.


The critical thing there, though, is that this gate is the last one. The only place they can go after this is to Xykon's astral fortress--I can't see any narrative need for the Order (or Xykon, for that matter) to visit dwarven lands unless doing so is necessary to access the dungeon containing the last Gate. That doesn't mean it won't happen--the Giant has long since been coming up with plot twists very few people foresaw--but makes it somewhat unlikely, IMHO.

[ChristianSt]

The critical thing there, though, is that this gate is the last one. The only place they can go after this is to Xykon's astral fortress--I can't see any narrative need for the Order (or Xykon, for that matter) to visit dwarven lands unless doing so is necessary to access the dungeon containing the last Gate. That doesn't mean it won't happen--the Giant has long since been coming up with plot twists very few people foresaw--but makes it somewhat unlikely, IMHO.

From how I imagine the geographical situation here, the fastest way to Kraagor's Gate is through the Dwarven lands. (This is imo also supported by :roy:: "North. All the way - past the Dwarven lands, even." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0937.html))

So I think the Order planned to take the shortest route + maybe to make a short stop at a Dwarven city to make last preparation+shopping (and maybe to help Durkon). Or going by 938 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0938.html) it might also be possible we see something from the Elven Lands. Though it seems that they already are past the Elven Lands, because they seem to be on the open sea (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html), so either north or west of the Western Continent (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html).

Though what is planned and what actually will happen are two different things, especially in this comic. :smallwink:


I'm not sure what Team Evil is up to, but I think they haven't encountered O-Chul and Lien, because they would have reported back ASAP and imo to important to just die off-screen. And it has imo too much time passed to just switch to Team Evil popping in. My guess would be either they rest a bit (though I don't know how long that should halt them) or they circumvented O-Chul and Lien unnoticed and are somewhere inside Kraagor's Tomb. (Or Kraagor's Tomb is a lie and the whole story about the gates gets even more unreliable...)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm not sure what Team Evil is up to, but I think they haven't encountered O-Chul and Lien, because they would have reported back ASAP and imo to important to just die off-screen. And it has imo too much time passed to just switch to Team Evil popping in. My guess would be either they rest a bit (though I don't know how long that should halt them) or they circumvented O-Chul and Lien unnoticed and are somewhere inside Kraagor's Tomb.

This is pretty much what I think. Either Team Evil just hasn't encountered them yet (because they had quite a head start),or they managed to pass them because of their superior spells.