Level Adjustment for The Tarrasque

[Raishoiken]

this be something i worked on quite awhile ago for a Tarrasque build (to be posted at a later date). at the moment it only includes the base Savage Species level adjustment rules as far as i can remember (i haven't reviewed it for a bit, imma edit it at some point soon-ish). any judgement call suggestions excluding not using the Tarrasque >_>?

(strictly as listed)

unbalanced ability scores +1

natural armor:

first 5: +1
extra 25: +5

natural attacks: +1

reach: +3

regeneration: +2

rush and augmented critical: +1

swallow whole: +2

improved grab: +1

scent: +1

spell-resistance: +1

damage reduction: +1

Carapace: +1

total: +21


(after reading a few of the replies i realize some of these were actually judgement made, as i am afb, i'll change them later)


WITH CALLS (pre ecl/racial hit dice not taken into account)

unbalanced ability scores +5

natural armor:

first 5: +1
extra 25: +5

natural attacks: +1

reach: +3

regeneration: +4

rush and augmented critical: +1

swallow whole: +2

improved grab: +1

scent: +1

spell-resistance: +1

damage reduction: +1

Carapace: +1

total: +27


WITH CALLS (pre ecl/racial hit dice taken into account) ECL: 48 RHD + 27 LA= 75


natural armor:

first 5: +1
extra 25: +5

natural attacks: +1

reach: +3

regeneration: +4

swallow whole: +2

improved grab: +1


total: +17 - 10 (high ECL and comparing with paragon's +11)= +7'

ECL: 55

[eggynack]

The tarrasque wouldn't be overpowered at all in an epic level game, especially when you consider the fact that you'll be running next to no HP at level 27. However, you seem to be undervaluing a couple of things, particularly regeneration, which is probably the tarrasque's greatest asset, and carapace, which is also pretty high up there, or maybe higher. Without those things, the tarrasque goes from reasonably easy to kill to incredibly easy to kill. You're also overvaluing DR, because it's just not worth that much. Similarly, condensing scent, rush, and swallow whole should probably be condensed under a single "other abilities" banner, and given a +1, because none of those things seem worth an LA on their own.

[toapat]

Ability score: this can be mitigated down depending on the build

armor: Probably is weighted twice what its worth

Natural Attacks: Should be weighted more heavily then that

Rush: Shouldnt have any weight

Sr: No

[awa]

remember the trasque has a ton of racial hit dice 48 that means with an la of 26 the trasque is in a party with level 74 characters.

[Svata]

Unless this is a racial class (I.E. taking levels of "Tarrasque" until you match its HD, and only then getting the full power of it), I say none. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Zero. Only being able to start play at 48th level or above, and only having the abilities of the Tarrasque at that point makes you HANDILY outclassed by anything else at that level. The sheer number of HD ittakes is bad enough. Could work for Gestalt at that level, though... Hmmmm...



And the heart of my arguement was ninja'd.

[PersonMan]

When looking at monsters-as-PCs, I find a good replacement for standard LA to be "what is annoying/tough to deal with on a PC?" when looking at their stats. Theoretically, a monster will work fine as a PC as-is, with CR equal to the ECL. However, some things (At-Will Wish, At-Will Greater Teleport...) that work on a monster are a lot harder to deal with on a PC.

The Tarrasque, though, kinda lacks these, apart from Regeneration (which is no problem if you don't have an issue with infinite healing). It's a big bruiser with a few necessary tricks (Carapece, SR) to make 'big bruiser' workable at higher levels. Sure, it can only be killed with Wish, but in most situations the difference between knocked out with nonlethal damage and deal is fairly small, and it's a TPK whether the Tarrasque-dude is being kept unconscious until he starves or if he dies immediately.

It has other issues (social situations, non-combat situations in general, horrible INT) but I wouldn't say it's too strong to be a 20th level PC.

With 26 LA, the Tarrasque becomes playable at level 75. In a level 75 setting, the Tarrasque, with one level in any class, won't be relevant.

[awa]

It depends the trasque loaded down with appropriate wealth per level and re picking better feats can probably stomp a level 48 mundane class with ease. Some feats or gear to shore up his few weaknesses and you get a monster who is unkillable to the vast majority of monsters.

[Lightlawbliss]

AFB, but isn't there a reduction given for RHD?

[toapat]

realistically, the ECL of the Tarrasque should be 14-18. the only way to make it have a realistically post epic ECL is by applying the Half-Platnium Dragon template to it, and saying that it gets Energy Drain immunity.

otherwise just consider it in a class with Good reflex and Fort save progressions, full BAB, and 3HD/level.

[Urpriest]

The homebrew monster class for the Tarrasque is decent, any reason you don't want to use that?

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm pretty sure the Tarrasque's Level Adjustment is "No. HELL no! Not even in your wildest dreams."

[TuggyNE]

I'm pretty sure the Tarrasque's Level Adjustment is "No. HELL no! Not even in your wildest dreams."

Agreed, but even at that it's a little lower than the Atropal's. (Yes, I have seen someone ask what the Atropal's LA is. Good times.)

[Raishoiken]

AFB, but isn't there a reduction given for RHD?

i haven't seen one myself in Savage Species, but i have been planning to put one in the expanded level adjustment system that i'm making. i made a thread that has the first bit of it that i've already done


The homebrew monster class for the Tarrasque is decent, any reason you don't want to use that?

i didn't know there was one here, but i'll definately look it up when if i ever wanna play it at lower levels