Minotaur character from 1st level advice on mechanics

[justiceforall]

Hi Playground,

I am exploring the possibility of playing a minotaur character in my GMs next campaign, starting from 1st. I would like to do this with no homebrew, but would like to try and marry up the savage progressions class (which I assume is the only canon way to do it?) with the 3.5 minotaur if possible. I'm aware a couple of people have done articles/handbooks on monsters and I've read those, so I have a couple of clarification questions on that as well.

Before I start putting down questions, I would like to head off two things before starting any discussion:

A. Yes, I know that monsters are weak from a power perspective. I do not particularly care, and neither does my GM, or the rest of my party. This isn't an optimisation thread, it's a rules thread.

B. Yes, I know the savage progressions rules are poor. But as far as I'm aware, they are the only WotC rules I have access to in order to do this, so I intend to try to use them as closely as I can. I am not going to use homebrew stuff. Please do not go into comparisons between my questions and homebrew/etc, I'm not here to get into one of the semantics arguments which I watch go on all the time here. This isn't meant to be rude, it's just meant to save some electrons.


That out of the way - initial questions:

1. I would like to end up as a 3.5 minotaur, assuming it is different from a 3.0 minotaur? Is there an updated savage progression I can use? (I couldn't find one, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist). If not, what would be a reasonable interpretation?

2. In my reading of the monsters handbook on this site, it seemed that monster/racial progression do not get a stat point for 4 levels/hd. Is this true even if using Savage Progressions?

3. Something odd I noted, minotaurs on the SRD have 30ft move speed. This seems really odd for a large humanoid creature. Dndtools says the minotaur player race has 40ft? Which is correct?

[Platinum Piece]

Or you could ask your DM if you could play a Minotaur from Dragonlance. They are 0 LA and medium sided though.

[justiceforall]

Or you could ask your DM if you could play a Minotaur from Dragonlance. They are 0 LA and medium sided though.

Part of the attraction is being a large character.

Another part of the attraction is trying out the racial progression rules.

[justiceforall]

Noone?

Monster handbook guys not around?

[gorfnab]

Savage Species has the Minotaur savage progression.

[justiceforall]

Except as I noted, that is 3.0 and I was hoping there was a 3.5 alteration I could find/make.

One of the really big differences I noted was that 3.0 minotaurs have light armour, medium armour, and shield proficiency, but only simple weapons, and 3.5 minotaurs have no armour proficiencies at all, but access to a greataxe.

[Derpldorf]

I am unable to post a direct link at the moment but if you type

Oslecamo's Improved Monster Classes

Into the googles you'll come across a very good list of various monsters broken down into actual classes, one of them being a very well done Minotaur.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I am unable to post a direct link at the moment but if you type

Oslecamo's Improved Monster Classes

Into the googles you'll come across a very good list of various monsters broken down into actual classes, one of them being a very well done Minotaur.

I believe that this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) is the post that you're looking for?

[killem2]

I would use my level adjustment method down below.

I am also considering using a XP penalty for racial hit dice as well. But no buy off method but it would go down by 10% for each class level he attains. So, in his case, at level 1 with my ideas this player would be getting hit with the following xp penalty:

50% less exp for being 6 racial hit dice. (since he would start with 1 level of a class), then another 20% reduction for level adjustment.

Level 1 - 70% Reduced XP (50% racial hit dice 20% level adjustment)
Level 2 - 60% Reduced XP (40% racial hit dice 20% level adjustment)
Level 3 - 40% Reduced XP (30% racial hit dice 10% level adjustment (first buy off of level adjustment)
Level 4 - 30% Reduced XP (20% racial hit dice 10% level adjustment)
Level 5 - 20% Reduced XP (10% racial hit dice 10% level adjustment)
Level 6 - No reduction in XP. He has 6 class levels, and with my level adjustment method, he also has bought off the remainder of level adjustment

Sure, the guy is going to level up pretty slowly, but he is going to be stomping some major behind for quite a few levels if he gets the MM version at level 1. And if you let your players roll a 4d6 or 5d6 stat generation or a 25 point or higher buy system, they are going to be rolling in some high str/con.

I may even consider using a 5% per racial hit dice XP penalty instead. Which may lead to an easier transition.

Which would look more like:

Level 1 - 55% Reduced XP (25% racial hit dice 20% level adjustment)
Level 2 - 50% Reduced XP (20% racial hit dice 20% level adjustment)
Level 3 - 35% Reduced XP (15% racial hit dice 10% level adjustment (first buy off of level adjustment)
Level 4 - 20% Reduced XP (10% racial hit dice 10% level adjustment)
Level 5 - 15% Reduced XP (5% racial hit dice 10% level adjustment)
Level 6 - No reduction in XP. He has 6 class levels, and with my level adjustment method, he also has bought off the remainder of level adjustment

That's how I would do it.

[Chronos]

There was almost no change to the minotaur from 3.0 to 3.5. The only differences I can find:
Their space changed from 5' to 10' in 3.5
They gained darkvision 30' in 3.5
They lost Jump as a class skill for their racial HD in 3.5
They gained Track as a default feat in 3.5 . However, this is mostly irrelevant, since their (unchanged) Natural Cunning ability also allows them to track, and Track is a selected feat, not a bonus feat, so you could choose what to take there anyway.

If you want to use the Savage Species progression, I'd say just to add Darkvision at the first level (it's not a big deal, and comes from the Monstrous Humanoid type), don't put any ranks in Jump, and change their space to 10' when they reach Large size. Done.

[ShurikVch]

Tauren from Warcraft the RPG is large-sized, with 1 HD and LA +1

[killem2]

Tauren from Warcraft the RPG is large-sized, with 1 HD and LA +1

That's an easy enough way to do it, OP i would go with that.

Nice find!

[Starcofski]

2. In my reading of the monsters handbook on this site, it seemed that monster/racial progression do not get a stat point for 4 levels/hd. Is this true even if using Savage Progressions?

3. Something odd I noted, minotaurs on the SRD have 30ft move speed. This seems really odd for a large humanoid creature. Dndtools says the minotaur player race has 40ft? Which is correct?

Question 1 was answered above, so I'll fill the gaps.

2) I have not had a DM actually enforce this, so talk with your GM about allowing the level progression bonuses for your racial hit die (feats and ability points).

3) The 3.5 MM says 30 ft, so I imagine that DNDTools is wrong in this scenario.

[justiceforall]

3) The 3.5 MM says 30 ft, so I imagine that DNDTools is wrong in this scenario.

I found it odd as I could not find another large humanoid that had less than 40ft move, which is why I asked. Why are minotaurs slower than ogres? Weird.

[ShurikVch]

I found it odd as I could not find another large humanoid that had less than 40ft move, which is why I asked. Why are minotaurs slower than ogres? Weird.
My suggestion: take Dragonlance minotaur, then apply Half-Minotaur template.
Speed 40.
Also -
Large size.
+16 Str, -4 Dex, +6 Con, -4 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Cha.
+4 natural AC
1d6 gore attack (on charge - 2d6 + 1/2 Str mod)
Darkvision 60’.
Gain the Scent ability.
Gain Feat: Track.
+2 Racial bonus on Intimidate, Listen, Search, Spot, Swim & Use Rope checks.
+4 bonus on checks to escape a Maze spell & always know which direction is North.

And all this only for +1 LA!